Scotland to become independent in March 2016 if referendum passes

[weescotsguy66]

Alex Salmond will negotiate the term of the separation if the YES is won since The Scottish Government will still be in charge, yes there will be elections later but not at the same time so a vote for YES is Vote for Salmond's policies cannot really change them after agreement.

Most Expat here will not have a vote but 16 year old weans will as will English people living in Scotland.

[marstons]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/fears-more-firms-will-follow-standard-life-threat-to-quit.23554839

Final nail in the YES vote, large companies stating they will probably relocate if yes vote. Its a non starter and going to be a waste of millions of pounds. Be nice to know who is funding this farcical election.Out of UK, out of EU and will have tp re-apply for membership and is unlikly to meet the requirements to get back in according to the President of the EU.

The president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso

"What I said, and it is our doctrine and it is clear since 2004 in legal terms, if one part of a country - I am not referring now to any specific one - wants to become an independent state, of course as an independent state it has to apply to the European membership according to the rules - that is obvious."

Asked whether an independent country would have to renegotiate its terms, Mr Barroso said: "Yes.".

[7by7]

Usual rubbish from the SNP.

"We want to be free of all the commitments and obligations the union imposes upon us; but want to keep everything which is to our advantage!"

"We want to be part of the EU, but also want to dictate our terms of membership!"

Are the Scottish people really so stupid that they believe Salmond and his cronies will get away with that?

I doubt it very much.

You are very much entitled to your opinion 7by7 but do you actually have any

facts or info to support your claim of SNP rubbish?, if not then perhaps you would

be well advised to keep your speculative poison to yourself.

I, and others, have provided plenty of links to and quotes from various people showing that Salmond's arrogant assertions that he will get his way on everything are pure fantasy.

Such as Marston's quote from Barroso above.

Do you think that the Scottish people are really so stupid as to not expect any of their

leaders Alex Salmond or otherwise to negotiate the best possible deal for Scotland

and its' people?

I doubt it very much.

I don't think the Scottish people are stupid; which is why I expect them to vote 'No' in this referendum.

Salmond is an arrogant little man who wants to be a big man. His idea of 'negotiation' is to state "this is what I want, and you have to give it to me!"

He will be very disappointed; whatever the outcome of the referendum.

[phuketjock]

Usual rubbish from the SNP.

"We want to be free of all the commitments and obligations the union imposes upon us; but want to keep everything which is to our advantage!"

"We want to be part of the EU, but also want to dictate our terms of membership!"

Are the Scottish people really so stupid that they believe Salmond and his cronies will get away with that?

I doubt it very much.

You are very much entitled to your opinion 7by7 but do you actually have any

facts or info to support your claim of SNP rubbish?, if not then perhaps you would

be well advised to keep your speculative poison to yourself.

I, and others, have provided plenty of links to and quotes from various people showing that Salmond's arrogant assertions that he will get his way on everything are pure fantasy.

Such as Marston's quote from Barroso above.

Do you think that the Scottish people are really so stupid as to not expect any of their

leaders Alex Salmond or otherwise to negotiate the best possible deal for Scotland

and its' people?

I doubt it very much.

I don't think the Scottish people are stupid; which is why I expect them to vote 'No' in this referendum.

Salmond is an arrogant little man who wants to be a big man. His idea of 'negotiation' is to state "this is what I want, and you have to give it to me!"

He will be very disappointed; whatever the outcome of the referendum.

The gospel according to 7by7

Utter unsubstantiated tripe imho.

Edited March 1, 2014 by phuketjock

[Basil B]

Standard Life has warned that it is drawing up contingency plans to move its multi-billion pound business out of Scotland if there is a vote in favour of independence.

Just the first of many...

Just wounder how many employees will before September 18, receive "Job at Risk" letter.

[7by7]

Phuketjock, maybe you don't get the news in Phuket; or do you just ignore the bits you don't like?

It's all over every UK media outlet, and has been for days, if not weeks.

Salmond says Scotland will keep the pound after independence. The Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems all say that, no matter who wins the next election, an independent Scotland wont keep the pound nor monetary union with the remainder of the UK.

Salmond says an independent Scotland will automatically be a member of the EU. The EU says it wont be and will have to negotiate membership the same as any other state which wants to join.

You can post as many silly smilies as you wish; it wont change the fact that Salmond is trying to peddle a load of old pony to the Scottish people.

When Standard Life, one of the largest and oldest Scottish financial institutions, says it will leave an independent Scotland, it's obvious that an independent Scotland is simply not viable.

[transam]

Standard Life has warned that it is drawing up contingency plans to move its multi-billion pound business out of Scotland if there is a vote in favour of independence.

Just the first of many...

Just wounder how many employees will before September 18, receive "Job at Risk" letter.

5000 at SL....

[phuketjock]

Phuketjock, maybe you don't get the news in Phuket; or do you just ignore the bits you don't like?

It's all over every UK media outlet, and has been for days, if not weeks.

Salmond says Scotland will keep the pound after independence. The Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems all say that, no matter who wins the next election, an independent Scotland wont keep the pound nor monetary union with the remainder of the UK.

Salmond says an independent Scotland will automatically be a member of the EU. The EU says it wont be and will have to negotiate membership the same as any other state which wants to join.

You can post as many silly smilies as you wish; it wont change the fact that Salmond is trying to peddle a load of old pony to the Scottish people.

When Standard Life, one of the largest and oldest Scottish financial institutions, says it will leave an independent Scotland, it's obvious that an independent Scotland is simply not viable.

Speculation, speculation, speculation and you really need to get your facts right, Standard Life has said they are looking at the possibility

of moving, no decision has yet been made. But as usual plenty of journalistic sensationalism, perhaps I should call it 7by7ism.

Source,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10656483/Standard-Life-warns-it-could-quit-an-independent-Scotland.html

Standard Life today delivered a major setback to Alex Salmond by becoming the first large Scottish company to warn it may move part of its multi-billion pound operations to England if there is a vote for independence this year.

[7by7]

You really should read all of the article if you are going to use it to back up your stance.

The journalist who wrote the report used the word 'may' but if you read on it is obvious Standard Life's concerns, and so plans, are more concrete than that!

The pensions, savings and insurance giant said it was drawing up contingency plans to shift operations and personnel from its Edinburgh headquarters as a “precautionary measure to ensure continuity of our businesses’ competitive position.”

Although the firm insisted in its new annual report it was not taking a stance on Scottish independence, it said the planning was necessary to protect customers and shareholders. It is understood this could involve moving its headquarters from Edinburgh to London.

In a double blow to the Nationalists, RBS used its full-year results to warn that uncertainty over the referendum is already damaging its business and a vote for separation would be “likely to significantly impact the Group’s credit ratings”.

Among the “material issues” Standard Life said was behind its decision were uncertainty over a separate Scotland’s currency, membership of the EU, monetary system, arrangements for financial services regulation and approach to individual taxation.

Scottish independence: Standard Life draws up 'Yes' contingency plan

Following the announcement, First Minister Alex Salmond clashed with Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont at Holyrood during a heated First Minister's Questions.

Ms Lamont said Standard Life's comments showed a "Yes" vote would be a "disaster for Scottish jobs".

She added: "Standard Life is actively making plans to leave Scotland if the first minister gets his way.

"No amount of bluff, no amount of bluster and no amount of bullying from Alex Salmond can change that fact."

Ms Lamont accused the SNP leader of "denial, deception, delusion" on the issue, but was rebuked by Presiding Officer Tricia Marwick.

Later, she insisted: "Isn't it the case that Alex Salmond's plans would do more damage to Scotland than even Margaret Thatcher?"

As usual, Salmond responds to criticism with his usual bluster; his usual "If everyone gives me what I want; all will be fine." and, as always, blames those who wont give into his demands and calls them 'bullies.'

The first minister told Ms Lamont: "The bluff, the bluster, the bullying applies to George Osborne, who is the Tory Chancellor [Ms Lamont] is in alliance with."

According to Salmond, his making unreasonable and impractical demands is diplomacy and statesmanship; whilst people not giving in to his demands is bluff, bluster and bullying!

How can anyone take him seriously!

[Scott]

I can appreciate the strong sentiment, but please keep your remarks directed at the topic and don't make remarks directed at other posters.

On of the things I enjoy about the forum and discussions such as this one is the ability of some posters to articulate their positions very well. Let's not ruin that with personal remarks.

Thanks.

[phuketjock]

You really should read all of the article if you are going to use it to back up your stance.

The journalist who wrote the report used the word 'may' but if you read on it is obvious Standard Life's concerns, and so plans, are more concrete than that!

The pensions, savings and insurance giant said it was drawing up contingency plans to shift operations and personnel from its Edinburgh headquarters as a “precautionary measure to ensure continuity of our businesses’ competitive position.”

Although the firm insisted in its new annual report it was not taking a stance on Scottish independence, it said the planning was necessary to protect customers and shareholders. It is understood this could involve moving its headquarters from Edinburgh to London.

In a double blow to the Nationalists, RBS used its full-year results to warn that uncertainty over the referendum is already damaging its business and a vote for separation would be “likely to significantly impact the Group’s credit ratings”.

Among the “material issues” Standard Life said was behind its decision were uncertainty over a separate Scotland’s currency, membership of the EU, monetary system, arrangements for financial services regulation and approach to individual taxation.

Scottish independence: Standard Life draws up 'Yes' contingency plan

Following the announcement, First Minister Alex Salmond clashed with Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont at Holyrood during a heated First Minister's Questions.

Ms Lamont said Standard Life's comments showed a "Yes" vote would be a "disaster for Scottish jobs".

She added: "Standard Life is actively making plans to leave Scotland if the first minister gets his way.

"No amount of bluff, no amount of bluster and no amount of bullying from Alex Salmond can change that fact."

Ms Lamont accused the SNP leader of "denial, deception, delusion" on the issue, but was rebuked by Presiding Officer Tricia Marwick.

Later, she insisted: "Isn't it the case that Alex Salmond's plans would do more damage to Scotland than even Margaret Thatcher?"

As usual, Salmond responds to criticism with his usual bluster; his usual "If everyone gives me what I want; all will be fine." and, as always, blames those who wont give into his demands and calls them 'bullies.'

The first minister told Ms Lamont: "The bluff, the bluster, the bullying applies to George Osborne, who is the Tory Chancellor [Ms Lamont] is in alliance with."

According to Salmond, his making unreasonable and impractical demands is diplomacy and statesmanship; whilst people not giving in to his demands is bluff, bluster and bullying!

How can anyone take him seriously!

As I said no decision has been made, "contingency plans" and "precautionary measures" are just that, nothing else

just a pointer to how scared the UK government and the anti independance scaremongers are.

[phuketjock]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/fears-more-firms-will-follow-standard-life-threat-to-quit.23554839

Final nail in the YES vote, large companies stating they will probably relocate if yes vote. Its a non starter and going to be a waste of millions of pounds. Be nice to know who is funding this farcical election.Out of UK, out of EU and will have tp re-apply for membership and is unlikly to meet the requirements to get back in according to the President of the EU.

The president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso

"What I said, and it is our doctrine and it is clear since 2004 in legal terms, if one part of a country - I am not referring now to any specific one - wants to become an independent state, of course as an independent state it has to apply to the European membership according to the rules - that is obvious."

Asked whether an independent country would have to renegotiate its terms, Mr Barroso said: "Yes.".

An update on the Barosso nonsense,

source,

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/independence-would-not-bar-scotland-from-eu-membership.23570382

'Independence would not bar Scotland from EU membership'

David Leask

Chief Reporter

Saturday 1 March 2014

SENIOR European Conservatives, including a key ally of Prime Minister David Cameron, have dismissed claims by Jose Manuel Barroso that an independent Scotland could be kept out of the EU.

The Commission president has faced a growing continental backlash since he declared last month that Scottish membership would be "difficult if not impossible".

Now, in a morale-booster for the Yes campaign, Mr Barroso's assertions have come under direct fire from former Czech president Vaclav Klaus and Joelle Garriaud-Maylam, a senior French senator specialising in foreign policy.

Most Brussels watchers believe Mr Barroso's words, on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show, were directed as much at Catalonia - which will hold an unsanctioned vote on independence from Spain later this year - as they were at Scotland.

However, Mr Klaus, speaking at a conference on secession movements in Austria, made it clear he expected Scotland and Catalonia, if they were independent, to stay in the EU.

Answering a question from Professor Charlie Jeffery, of Edinburgh University, Mr Klaus said: "It is arrogant of the EU to say Scotland and Catalonia will not be members."

His words came after another prominent conservative, Mme Garriaud-Maylam, effectively accused the UK and Spain of being behind Mr Barroso's intervention.

Speaking in the French Senate, Mme Garriaud-Maylam said: "The threats formulated by Mr Barroso are inappropriate and the result of Spanish and English pressure. London is increasingly worried. They (the threats) are not credible. If Scotland votes for independence, it will stay in the European Union. It would be in England's interest."

Note the date. So another anti-independance myth shattered.

Edited March 2, 2014 by phuketjock

[7by7]

As I said no decision (by Standard Life) has been made, "contingency plans" and "precautionary measures" are just that, nothing else

just a pointer to how scared the UK government and the anti independance scaremongers are.

No, it's a pointer to how worried Standard Life and other Scottish financial institutions are. Otherwise, why would they be drawing up contingency plans and precautionary measures to leave Scotland in case of a 'Yes' vote?

An update on the Barosso nonsense,

source,

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/independence-would-not-bar-scotland-from-eu-membership.23570382

'Independence would not bar Scotland from EU membership'

As far as I am aware, no one has ever said that an independent Scotland would be barred from EU membership.

Salmond says an independent Scotland's membership will be automatic; that they wont even have to apply.

Many other's, not just Barroso, have said that they would have to apply for and negotiate the terms of membership.

As with every other area where Salmond doesn't get his way he has no response other than to accuse his opponents of bluff, bluster and bullying!

Edited March 2, 2014 by 7by7

[uptheos]

Please keep all the nuclear stuff at Faslane and send us your haddock.

[phuketjock]

As I said no decision (by Standard Life) has been made, "contingency plans" and "precautionary measures" are just that, nothing else

just a pointer to how scared the UK government and the anti independance scaremongers are.

No, it's a pointer to how worried Standard Life and other Scottish financial institutions are. Otherwise, why would they be drawing up contingency plans and precautionary measures to leave Scotland in case of a 'Yes' vote?

An update on the Barosso nonsense,

source,

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/independence-would-not-bar-scotland-from-eu-membership.23570382

'Independence would not bar Scotland from EU membership'

As far as I am aware, no one has ever said that an independent Scotland would be barred from EU membership.

Salmond says an independent Scotland's membership will be automatic; that they wont even have to apply.

Many other's, not just Barroso, have said that they would have to apply for and negotiate the terms of membership.

As with every other area where Salmond doesn't get his way he has no response other than to accuse his opponents of bluff, bluster and bullying!

Sorry 7by7 but your posts are becoming repetitive, have you nothing original to say? instead of

continual same old same old Salmond bashing, you are getting quite boring mate.

I would also point out that the contigency plans and precautionary measures you refer to are not

about when Scotland gets independence but rather about whether Scotlands currency under

independence is the pound sterling or not. So as I see it when Scotland gains independence and

retains the pound as its' currency these contingency plans and measures will not be required.

Which is why I would venture to suggest they are only plans at this time, nothing decided.

Edited March 2, 2014 by phuketjock

[Basil B]

If Scotland was to become independent, then there is nothing stopping Scotland applying for membership.

But this will take time, first it would down to the new government to apply, it may not be even recognized until after separation from the Union, then it will have to negotiate with the EU.

Also remember while negotiating with the EU the rest of of the UK will have it's own referendum on staying in the EU, and I do not think "can we join if the UK stays in" will go down at all well.

During the transition period will we have to impose boarder controls? and if Scotland is not accepted or the UK opts out?

[phuketjock]

If Scotland was to become independent, then there is nothing stopping Scotland applying for membership.

But this will take time, first it would down to the new government to apply, it may not be even recognized until after separation from the Union, then it will have to negotiate with the EU.

Also remember while negotiating with the EU the rest of of the UK will have it's own referendum on staying in the EU, and I do not think "can we join if the UK stays in" will go down at all well.

During the transition period will we have to impose boarder controls? and if Scotland is not accepted or the UK opts out?

And you know all this to be fact then???

If so can you please enlighten all of us and reveal where we can all see this info for ourselves?

Or are you just another speculator stating what you think will apply when Scotland becomes independent??

[transam]

If Scotland was to become independent, then there is nothing stopping Scotland applying for membership.

But this will take time, first it would down to the new government to apply, it may not be even recognized until after separation from the Union, then it will have to negotiate with the EU.

Also remember while negotiating with the EU the rest of of the UK will have it's own referendum on staying in the EU, and I do not think "can we join if the UK stays in" will go down at all well.

During the transition period will we have to impose boarder controls? and if Scotland is not accepted or the UK opts out?

And you know all this to be fact then???

If so can you please enlighten all of us and reveal where we can all see this info for ourselves?

Or are you just another speculator stating what you think will apply when Scotland becomes independent??

So, tell me, how are Scots folk going to be better off breaking away from the union. ?

[StreetCowboy]

What is the legal tender in Scotland at the moment?

[phuketjock]

If Scotland was to become independent, then there is nothing stopping Scotland applying for membership.

But this will take time, first it would down to the new government to apply, it may not be even recognized until after separation from the Union, then it will have to negotiate with the EU.

Also remember while negotiating with the EU the rest of of the UK will have it's own referendum on staying in the EU, and I do not think "can we join if the UK stays in" will go down at all well.

During the transition period will we have to impose boarder controls? and if Scotland is not accepted or the UK opts out?

And you know all this to be fact then???

If so can you please enlighten all of us and reveal where we can all see this info for ourselves?

Or are you just another speculator stating what you think will apply when Scotland becomes independent??

So, tell me, how are Scots folk going to be better off breaking away from the union. ?

I suggest you have a browse through this website to see just how much has been achieved since

the SNP took over the limited government of Scotland and imagine what could be achieved for

Scotland with independence. Scotland and the south of England are the only two places in UK that

are actually paying their own way in the UK.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/#slide/2

[phuketjock]

What is the legal tender in Scotland at the moment?

According to this website nothing is legal tender in Scotland.

http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/legal_position.php

[lungbing]

What is the legal tender in Scotland at the moment?

In many parts it's The Giro

[nong38]

Looks like a perfect scenario for a porridge pledging scheme, these schemes are a big hit in some Asian countries.

The currency of Scotland is this..............10 bowls of porridge to the haggis, ......20 haggis to a bottle of whisky..........a bottle of whisky is worth 10 pounds sterling + a picture of a salmon.

[7by7]

Sorry 7by7 but your posts are becoming repetitive, have you nothing original to say? instead of

continual same old same old Salmond bashing, you are getting quite boring mate.

I'll do a deal with you; you stop repeating Salmond's <deleted> and I'll stop proving he's talking <deleted>.

I would also point out that the contigency plans and precautionary measures you refer to are not

about when Scotland gets independence but rather about whether Scotlands currency under

independence is the pound sterling or not. So as I see it when Scotland gains independence and

retains the pound as its' currency these contingency plans and measures will not be required.

Which is why I would venture to suggest they are only plans at this time, nothing decided.

One major flaw in the above.

Despite the pony Salmond is peddling, an independent Scotland will not be allowed to keep Sterling!

I'd explain why, but as you have asked me to stop repeating myself I shall simply refer you to the numerous posts and news reports on this.

[7by7]

So, tell me, how are Scots folk going to be better off breaking away from the union. ?

I suggest you have a browse through this website to see just how much has been achieved since

the SNP took over the limited government of Scotland and imagine what could be achieved for

Scotland with independence. Scotland and the south of England are the only two places in UK that

are actually paying their own way in the UK.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/#slide/2

Looking through that website it seems to me that around 90% of the services provided by the Scottish government are provided in England by county councils!

Scotland paying it's own way? Maybe; but will it still be able to when the subsidies from English taxpayers stop?

[phuketjock]

Sorry 7by7 but your posts are becoming repetitive, have you nothing original to say? instead of

continual same old same old Salmond bashing, you are getting quite boring mate.

I'll do a deal with you; you stop repeating Salmond's <deleted> and I'll stop proving he's talking <deleted>.

I would also point out that the contigency plans and precautionary measures you refer to are not

about when Scotland gets independence but rather about whether Scotlands currency under

independence is the pound sterling or not. So as I see it when Scotland gains independence and

retains the pound as its' currency these contingency plans and measures will not be required.

Which is why I would venture to suggest they are only plans at this time, nothing decided.

One major flaw in the above.

Despite the pony Salmond is peddling, an independent Scotland will not be allowed to keep Sterling!

I'd explain why, but as you have asked me to stop repeating myself I shall simply refer you to the numerous posts and news reports on this.

I have already shown why Scotland will be entitled to keep the pound it is part owner of the

bank of England along with Wales,England and Northern Ireland, as seen in my previous post.

And BTW I have not quoted anything from Alex Salmond, YET.

English subsidies 5555555 Scotland is susidising England right now.

That will stop after independence, swiftly, the main reason why the UK government want to keep

Scotland in the UK.

Incidently you have spectacularly failed to prove anything you have said so far but you HAVE proved

how adept at speculating you are.

English susidies,

Edited March 2, 2014 by phuketjock

[7by7]

You have posted lots of links to articles etc. written by Yes supporters repeating Salmond's pony about Scotland having a right to keeping Sterling; but no facts that I can see.

Maybe I've missed such facts hidden among the propaganda; so could you post a link to an independent source to prove Salmond's assertion that it is up to him, and only him, whether or not Scotland keeps Sterling?

Because the only facts on this point that I have seen is that whichever party forms the next British government, they have all said an independent Scotland wont be allowed to keep Sterling nor enter into a currency union with the remainder of the UK.

(0ops, repeating myself again; maybe you'll get it this time?)

Does Scotland get more out of the union than it puts in?

The basic facts are that Scotland accounts for 8.4% of the UK population, 8.3% of the UK's total output and 8.3% of the UK's non-oil tax revenues - but 9.2% of total UK public spending.

Scottish Executive figures for 2009-10 show that spending per capita in Scotland was £11,370, versus £10,320 for the UK. In other words, spending in Scotland was £1,030 - or 10% higher - per head of population than the UK average.

What about revenues? The same source shows Scottish total non-oil tax revenues coming in at £42.7bn in 2009-10, or £8,221 per head, which compares with total public expenditure attributable to Scotland of £59.2bn, or £11,370 per head.

"But what about the oil?" you cry. She deals with that.

But Alex Salmond and his supporters have a more basic objection (phew), which is that the revenue figures for Scotland make no mention of North Sea oil. These are falling, but were still more than £6bn in 2009-10.

If you add in a proportion of those revenues, in line with Scotland's share of the UK population, it makes very little difference to the overall story. But if you say that more than 90% of the oil revenues are Scottish, as Mr Salmond would consider geographically appropriate, then you get Scotland 'putting in' £48.1bn in tax revenues in 2009-10, not £42.7bn.

Put it another way: Scotland provided 9.4% of total UK revenues and got 'only' 9.2% of UK public spending in return.

What she doesn't mention, and Salmond either doesn't know, or more likely has conveniently forgotten, is where the bulk of the investment which made the extraction of North Sea oil possible came from; it wasn't the Scots!

[nong38]

Who is paying for the new trams in Edinburgh? Without the support of London it would not be happening.

If the Scots get independence the Lib Dems and the Labour party will never win an election again, there are not many Con seats over the border, they have the least to lose but give them their due they want the Scots to stay in the Union regardless, could be a power thing of course, ah well up to you AH HO!

Another whisky please jock!

[Basil B]

What is the legal tender in Scotland at the moment?

In many parts it's The Giro

Well what will Salmond be replacing the Giro with?

[phuketjock]

You have posted lots of links to articles etc. written by Yes supporters repeating Salmond's pony about Scotland having a right to keeping Sterling; but no facts that I can see.

Maybe I've missed such facts hidden among the propaganda; so could you post a link to an independent source to prove Salmond's assertion that it is up to him, and only him, whether or not Scotland keeps Sterling?

Because the only facts on this point that I have seen is that whichever party forms the next British government, they have all said an independent Scotland wont be allowed to keep Sterling nor enter into a currency union with the remainder of the UK.

(0ops, repeating myself again; maybe you'll get it this time?)

Does Scotland get more out of the union than it puts in?

The basic facts are that Scotland accounts for 8.4% of the UK population, 8.3% of the UK's total output and 8.3% of the UK's non-oil tax revenues - but 9.2% of total UK public spending.

Scottish Executive figures for 2009-10 show that spending per capita in Scotland was £11,370, versus £10,320 for the UK. In other words, spending in Scotland was £1,030 - or 10% higher - per head of population than the UK average.

What about revenues? The same source shows Scottish total non-oil tax revenues coming in at £42.7bn in 2009-10, or £8,221 per head, which compares with total public expenditure attributable to Scotland of £59.2bn, or £11,370 per head.

"But what about the oil?" you cry. She deals with that.

But Alex Salmond and his supporters have a more basic objection (phew), which is that the revenue figures for Scotland make no mention of North Sea oil. These are falling, but were still more than £6bn in 2009-10.

If you add in a proportion of those revenues, in line with Scotland's share of the UK population, it makes very little difference to the overall story. But if you say that more than 90% of the oil revenues are Scottish, as Mr Salmond would consider geographically appropriate, then you get Scotland 'putting in' £48.1bn in tax revenues in 2009-10, not £42.7bn.

Put it another way: Scotland provided 9.4% of total UK revenues and got 'only' 9.2% of UK public spending in return.

What she doesn't mention, and Salmond either doesn't know, or more likely has conveniently forgotten, is where the bulk of the investment which made the extraction of North Sea oil possible came from; it wasn't the Scots!

So you are disputing the fact that the bank of England is owned by Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales are you?

"Put it another way: Scotland provided 9.4% of total UK revenues and got 'only' 9.2% of UK public spending in return."

From your own post does this not tell you that Scotland is subsidising UK and is perfectly capable of taking very good

finacial care of itself as an independent nation.

I find it fascinating that anyone could even consider the notion that the Scottish oil revenues should be shared out by UK

population when the majority of the oil is in internationally recognised Scottish waters. I can't help wondering if the English

would be so keen to share it if the oil was actually located in internationally recognised English waters????

Quoteing figures that do not include north sea oil revenues is a worthless and pointless exercise.

I think you will find like everywhere else in the world investment in oil exploration comes almost entirely from the large

international oil companies.