Twin evils are battling to bring down Thailand

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
Twin evils are battling to bring down Thailand
The Nation

The "tyranny" of a parliamentary majority is being used to defend a culture of corruption and political impunity

BANGKOK: -- The terms "corruption", "tyranny of the majority" and "parliamentary dictatorship" are being heard with increasing frequency. But unlike elsewhere, the so-called tyranny of the majority in Thailand is not being used to persecute ethnic, racial or religious minorities. Instead it supports corrupt politicians.

Corruption and arrogant majority rule have pushed the Kingdom into a new round of political conflict. Widespread public outrage at a government-backed bill for a blanket amnesty for political crimes caused the Senate to unanimously reject it and forced the ruling coalition to publicly promise not to seek its reaffirmation. Anti-government protesters and the opposition blamed a "tyranny of the majority" in the House of Representatives for passing a bill they say is aimed at absolving exiled former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra of corruption.

Concerns are now being raised among social critics of all political hues that the twin evils of corruption and tyranny of the majority could lead to chaos and disaster for Thailand. Former prime minister Anand Panyarachun has spoken on the growing problem of corruption. The issue is no longer about occasional bribes or "tea money", but large-scale conspiracies involving networks of people that include politicians, bureaucrats, businesspeople, the mass media and other organisations.

Anand warned that if the culture of corruption is allowed to continue unchecked, the country could be heading for disaster.

Veteran journalist Somkiat Onwimon laments on Facebook that the problem of corruption has grown steadily worse since Thaksin came to power more than a decade ago.

Former Senate speaker and legal expert Meechai Ruchuphan, on his website, said corruption is rife because of widespread indifference to the problem and the many beneficiaries who are reluctant to tackle it.

He said any government that relied only on majority rule was bound to fail eventually, since it would lose the trust of the people and be voted out.

Announcing the Constitutional Court's ruling last week against the government-backed bill for an all-elected Senate, Judge Supot Kaimook said the rights of the minority were being trampled. "Thailand's democratic system allows the majority to set the standard. But once it uses its power arbitrarily and suppresses the minority without listening to reason, the majority lose its legitimacy," he said.

The system could no longer be called "democratic" when the majority acted this way, added Supot. "It results in the tyranny of the majority." The judge's rebuke echoed widespread frustration at the government's seeming disregard for the democratic process.

A majority in Parliament should not be wielded to defend a corrupt administration or a wider culture of graft, or to ensure political impunity. No nation can ever completely stamp out corruption, but Thailand could at least prevent large-scale conspiracies that drain the public purse and do serious damage to the country.

The existing check-and-balance system - though it is not among the most stringent in the world - should be allowed to function normally. Agencies that are part of that system, such as the Constitutional Court, the National Anti-Corruption Commission and the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders, should be able to do their work without pressure or threats. Any attempt to weaken the mechanism of scrutiny must be condemned.


-- The Nation 2013-11-28

[JRSoul]

Yingluk and Thaksin are twins?

[waza]

But the PTP has a majority it can do what it likes

[fabianfred]

Politicialns are corrupt the world over....why do you think they want to get elected....power brings money....money brings power....greed and corruption follow.

That is why someone who wants a position of power should never get it....it should be given to one who will do a good job...then get time off for good behaviour after doing a good job and be released from the responsibility.

[Thai at Heart]

Thaksin and Suthep are twins?

This could be a star wars moment.

Who's dad? Prem? Use the force Luke.....

[Thainy Tim]

Politicialns are corrupt the world over....why do you think they want to get elected....power brings money....money brings power....greed and corruption follow.

That is why someone who wants a position of power should never get it....it should be given to one who will do a good job...then get time off for good behaviour after doing a good job and be released from the responsibility.

The only post on here with any 'likes' and I don't even understand it.

[ramrod711]

Veteran journalist Somkiat Onwimon laments on Facebook that the problem of corruption has grown steadily worse since Thaksin came to power more than a decade ago.

One wonders if tthere are any regrets in the PTP camp. Does it ever cross any of their minds that maybe it wasn't a good idea to ram a bill through the house in the middle of the night, that granted amnesty for criminals of every stripe, or are they thinking that all they have to do is wait a bit and do it all over again?

[Spare]

"Anand warned that if the culture of corruption is allowed to continue unchecked, the country could be heading for disaster."

This is exactly why 50% of the govt must be "SELECTED" and 50% elected.

cheque = bank balance.

[robblok]

Politicialns are corrupt the world over....why do you think they want to get elected....power brings money....money brings power....greed and corruption follow.

That is why someone who wants a position of power should never get it....it should be given to one who will do a good job...then get time off for good behaviour after doing a good job and be released from the responsibility.

 

The only post on here with any 'likes' and I don't even understand it.

 

As a non native English speaker i think he is talking about appointed leaders not elected that want the job as they often want the job for personal gain.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[Tatsujin]

Veteran journalist Somkiat Onwimon laments on Facebook that the problem of corruption has grown steadily worse since Thaksin came to power more than a decade ago.

One wonders if tthere are any regrets in the PTP camp. Does it ever cross any of their minds that maybe it wasn't a good idea to ram a bill through the house in the middle of the night, that granted amnesty for criminals of every stripe, or are they thinking that all they have to do is wait a bit and do it all over again?

160 some odd days to go i think . . .

[Katipo]

This is a good article. Covers most of the main points succinctly.

[wedders]

I love the bland, unsupported assertions like "corruption has got steadily worse since Thaksin...".

It was bad before, it was bad during, it carried on as if nothing had changed during the Dems' period at the helm, it's bad now, and it will be bad for the foreseeable future. Until the voters understand that a deep-rooted culture of nepotism and corruption is at fault - practised by pretty much anyone in a position of power - and not by a few headline-grabbing individuals, nothing will ever change. People are just so naive, and easily manipulated. And not just the Thais, going by the polemics on this forum.

[Spare]

I love the bland, unsupported assertions like "corruption has got steadily worse since Thaksin...".

It was bad before, it was bad during, it carried on as if nothing had changed during the Dems' period at the helm, it's bad now, and it will be bad for the foreseeable future. Until the voters understand that a deep-rooted culture of nepotism and corruption is at fault - practised by pretty much anyone in a position of power - and not by a few headline-grabbing individuals, nothing will ever change. People are just so naive, and easily manipulated. And not just the Thais, going by the polemics on this forum.

At least during Mark's time, corruption was steady, and did not worsen.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Spare

[wedders]

I love the bland, unsupported assertions like "corruption has got steadily worse since Thaksin...".

It was bad before, it was bad during, it carried on as if nothing had changed during the Dems' period at the helm, it's bad now, and it will be bad for the foreseeable future. Until the voters understand that a deep-rooted culture of nepotism and corruption is at fault - practised by pretty much anyone in a position of power - and not by a few headline-grabbing individuals, nothing will ever change. People are just so naive, and easily manipulated. And not just the Thais, going by the polemics on this forum.

 

At least during Mark's time, corruption was steady, and did not worsen.

That's precisely the kind of unsupported claim that I was referring to. And even if there existed some form of incontrovertible evidence to back it up, basically you're saying Abhisit did nothing about the problem.

[gerrythepoet]

Large scale corruption would not be viable unless there are mega plans afoot.

Yes Thailand needs to be up a gear to meet the needs of the AEC but the awarded contracts

to a certain extent are downright fishy with Shinawatra agencies.

Foreign investment seems to be heavily Chinese for they are desparate to get their goods exported

However no individual or party have been transparent with the contracts and it looks like populist polices

are played with one hand while the other is involved in underhand practices which are being noticed

and undermining the Country's economic growth.

[ridkun]

I love the bland, unsupported assertions like "corruption has got steadily worse since Thaksin...".

It was bad before, it was bad during, it carried on as if nothing had changed during the Dems' period at the helm, it's bad now, and it will be bad for the foreseeable future. Until the voters understand that a deep-rooted culture of nepotism and corruption is at fault - practised by pretty much anyone in a position of power - and not by a few headline-grabbing individuals, nothing will ever change. People are just so naive, and easily manipulated. And not just the Thais, going by the polemics on this forum.

It's worse. Before Thaksin, they resign, dissolve or flee from the corruption charge. When Thaksin come in, they just sat corruption is ok as long as they "work" and the government have the majority so anyone not having majority have no right to take them down.

[hawker9000]

I love the bland, unsupported assertions like "corruption has got steadily worse since Thaksin...".

It was bad before, it was bad during, it carried on as if nothing had changed during the Dems' period at the helm, it's bad now, and it will be bad for the foreseeable future. Until the voters understand that a deep-rooted culture of nepotism and corruption is at fault - practised by pretty much anyone in a position of power - and not by a few headline-grabbing individuals, nothing will ever change. People are just so naive, and easily manipulated. And not just the Thais, going by the polemics on this forum.

Hmmm... PTP apologists on the defensive?

[kingalfred]

PTP dont care about Thailand.PERIOD.If they cant have power to use as they want then its the attitude " no other parties are going to rule" Absolute power corrupts absolutely and incompetency is only an addition . its what happens when a single person and his sibling control a party,a political dynasty that will see Thailand fall into a pit that will take decades to climb out of .if ever.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited November 28, 2013 by kingalfred

[wedders]

Hmmm... PTP apologists on the defensive?

Or someone trying to see past the polarised ideological extremes, the rabid bias that regularly floods this forum, the unsupported claims thrown around, the spiteful, self-righteous moral vanity - and see things in shades of grey, instead of the black and white simplistic shortsightedness that is gradually fracturing Thai society.

[cup-O-coffee]

The Nation blows it yet again by attacking the tip of the ice-berg and ignoring the balance of ice beneath it.

My point being; it is all ice, and no matter what portion appears visible to our senses, it will always be ice, and nothing more. ...has been for over 2500 years and apparently will always be.

Ice is cold and hard and does nothing but sit there and freeze anything and everything near it. Nothing grows. Nothing moves. Nothing changes.

Everyone bitches yet no one offers solutions.

Why? Because there are solutions but everyone ignores them?

No! Because it is all ice, and FACE is the frigid temperature which nurtures ice.

As long as Thai and FACE both equate each other, then the hope of water (nurturing growth and moving forward) or steam (rising to opportunity and seizing it) will remain forever unreachable.

Thais are no less stubborn, ignorant and parasitic than the worldwide, Islamic regime, or even the remora fish. They survive only to perpetuate their existence, and feed off the resources and ingenuity of others around them.

Dispense with dancing around the issue, and say it like it is, Nation!

[Spare]

I love the bland, unsupported assertions like "corruption has got steadily worse since Thaksin...".

It was bad before, it was bad during, it carried on as if nothing had changed during the Dems' period at the helm, it's bad now, and it will be bad for the foreseeable future. Until the voters understand that a deep-rooted culture of nepotism and corruption is at fault - practised by pretty much anyone in a position of power - and not by a few headline-grabbing individuals, nothing will ever change. People are just so naive, and easily manipulated. And not just the Thais, going by the polemics on this forum.

At least during Mark's time, corruption was steady, and did not worsen.

That's precisely the kind of unsupported claim that I was referring to. And even if there existed some form of incontrovertible evidence to back it up, basically you're saying Abhisit did nothing about the problem.

Mark is clean. He did nothing because he could not stop his MPs from taking as usual.

Thaksin/Yingluck are different. Instead of did nothing like Mark, they joint in the fun and take more that what their MPs are taking, worsen the matter.

All Thai have accepted the fact that corruption cannot be stop. But what the current protesters (Suthep included) cannot stand, is that the PM is in it himself/herself.

Before you say another word, we all have our fair share of slipping 100 Baht to the police for jumping the red light, or riding without helmet. It is widely acceptable in Thai society.

[wedders]

*Spare* - so we "all do it", but "Mark is clean"? Make your mind up. Firstly, I doubt very much that you have an inside line on what goes on behind the scenes in Abhisit's sphere of influence. And parroting hearsay about Yingluck doesn't help either. Evidence, backed up by reliable sources, is what I would love to see. And that would be a first on TV.

Ok a few details over her asset declaration ref Ad Index Co, but hardly earth-shattering or recent news. If proven, she can be kicked out. I'm all for it. But in the meantime the current puerile shenanigans going on as the power-hungry jockey for position would be quite funny, if it didn't hold the potential for more violence. Suthep is a joke. Oh boy, does he love the sound of his own voice. It amazes me that the Thais get taken in by his sabre-rattling nonsense, but then Nuremberg demonstrated the extent to which people can be dumb.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[TVGerry]

I doubt anyone in the Thai government or in Thai politics have clean hands. However, the PTP takes corruption to another level. How do you prove anything against Yingluck when the agencies supposedly investigating her are in her brother's pocket?

You want to talk about dumb? Dumb is people voting for the same idiots everytime when they've proven themselves corrupt and incompentant. Gotta love the downtrodden masses.

*Spare* - so we "all do it", but "Mark is clean"? Make your mind up. Firstly, I doubt very much that you have an inside line on what goes on behind the scenes in Abhisit's sphere of influence. And parroting hearsay about Yingluck doesn't help either. Evidence, backed up by reliable sources, is what I would love to see. And that would be a first on TV.

Ok a few details over her asset declaration ref Ad Index Co, but hardly earth-shattering or recent news. If proven, she can be kicked out. I'm all for it. But in the meantime the current puerile shenanigans going on as the power-hungry jockey for position would be quite funny, if it didn't hold the potential for more violence. Suthep is a joke. Oh boy, does he love the sound of his own voice. It amazes me that the Thais get taken in by his sabre-rattling nonsense, but then Nuremberg demonstrated the extent to which people can be dumb.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wedders]

You want to talk about dumb? Dumb is people voting for the same idiots everytime when they've proven themselves corrupt and incompentant. Gotta love the downtrodden masses.

Better the devil you know maybe from their point of view, when the alternative is an Old Etonian Oxford graduate from a hi-so family, using his own brand of populist policies to try to make the Dems more attractive to the urban and rural poor that make up the majority of voters.

In that respect the Thais are no more dumb than the voters in any other country.

[TVGerry]

Because the Old Etonian Oxford graduate from a hi-so family hasn't murdered 3000 of his own citizens in a drug war, made BILLIONS for his family thru corruption, escalated the insurgencie in the south, come up with populist policies that have failed and cost the taxpayers BILLIONS among others. As dumb as voters in any other country are, I really don't think they're as dumb as the ones who actually love this idiot and his cronies. Not to mention the fact that that person is even more 'hi-so' then the Oxford graduate coming from one of the richest families in Chiang Mai. Yeah he's one of them and they identify with him.

You want to talk about dumb? Dumb is people voting for the same idiots everytime when they've proven themselves corrupt and incompentant. Gotta love the downtrodden masses.

Better the devil you know maybe from their point of view, when the alternative is an Old Etonian Oxford graduate from a hi-so family, using his own brand of populist policies to try to make the Dems more attractive to the urban and rural poor that make up the majority of voters.

In that respect the Thais are no more dumb than the voters in any other country.

[wave]

I doubt anyone in the Thai government or in Thai politics have clean hands. However, the PTP takes corruption to another level. How do you prove anything against Yingluck when the agencies supposedly investigating her are in her brother's pocket?

You want to talk about dumb? Dumb is people voting for the same idiots everytime when they've proven themselves corrupt and incompentant. Gotta love the downtrodden masses.

*Spare* - so we "all do it", but "Mark is clean"? Make your mind up. Firstly, I doubt very much that you have an inside line on what goes on behind the scenes in Abhisit's sphere of influence. And parroting hearsay about Yingluck doesn't help either. Evidence, backed up by reliable sources, is what I would love to see. And that would be a first on TV.

Ok a few details over her asset declaration ref Ad Index Co, but hardly earth-shattering or recent news. If proven, she can be kicked out. I'm all for it. But in the meantime the current puerile shenanigans going on as the power-hungry jockey for position would be quite funny, if it didn't hold the potential for more violence. Suthep is a joke. Oh boy, does he love the sound of his own voice. It amazes me that the Thais get taken in by his sabre-rattling nonsense, but then Nuremberg demonstrated the extent to which people can be dumb.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Obviously Thai politics is corrupt. No question about that.

But claims that Phua Thai have taken it to a new level is pure supposition.

There are never any figures to back these assertions,

I am not claiming that they are not corrupt but to make the case facts and figures are needed.

So what was the level of corruption under Abshit....how much was siphoned off and to whom?

What about Surayad's tenure? Who benefited from that?

How does this compare to the current administration?

Without any facts all these claims of "they have taken it to a new level" and "they are more corrupt" are just meaningless.

[Jim walker]

In your face corruption has been the norm for many years in Thailand and is now silently accepted as the norm so no one cares anymore unless it directly affects their pocket it will take at least one generation to eradicate corruption from being an acceptable part of governance in Thailand.

[Crushdepth]

Many people in Thailand ARE sick of corruption. Hence the protest.

[pisico]

I love the bland, unsupported assertions like "corruption has got steadily worse since Thaksin...".

It was bad before, it was bad during, it carried on as if nothing had changed during the Dems' period at the helm, it's bad now, and it will be bad for the foreseeable future. Until the voters understand that a deep-rooted culture of nepotism and corruption is at fault - practised by pretty much anyone in a position of power - and not by a few headline-grabbing individuals, nothing will ever change. People are just so naive, and easily manipulated. And not just the Thais, going by the polemics on this forum.

Before Thaksin, during and thereafter, corruption ruled all aspects of Thai life.

Thais are gregarious, more so than other countries. They are beholden to what the group thinks of them. Saving face, not losing it rules their actions. That is why they do not like to be seeing not participating in what the group does or decides.

Thais are not evil. They are just self absorbed in their Thainess (read the 12 Mandates from 1938) and are unwilling to change. There is also the subliminal effect of oral tradition in which if a Thai should be in a quandary of supporting a foreigner or a Thai national, Thais should always, no matter what, side with the Thai person. The consequence is the perception that Thais are better than foreigners.

Equally is not part of the Thai cultural DNA. To fight corruption in the country one will have to decide to renounce to it.

What Thai has not given a gift basket to a bureaucrat, manager in a business etc. to get position, advantages? Do you see any drivers willing to go to court and fight trumped up charges by a corrupt policeman? Want to rise in the ranks of the police department? Pay the higher ups! That is Thai social reality from the powers that be to the lowly cop collecting the usual daily bribes. It has not been any different since the Thai-Dai people spread all over the country.

Thais have to grow up and mature in a hurry if they want to be functional and productive members of the upcoming ASEAN community in 2014.

Not that they are looking forward to it. Thais do not know how to be competitive: they abhor being competitive. It will be a welcome news when the future People's Committee announces that Thailand is pulling out of the community because it is unfair to the country. Read: they do not give us the prefferencial treatment we want and deserve because we, Thais, are oh, so special!

...and so it goes...

[laolover88]

I am probably extremely naive.

Corruption happens in all countries, I suppose.

Could some posters, possibly Thai?, actually enumerate/ identify, with evidence, the actual acts of corruption over, say, the last year?