The key to why most people who lose weight fail to maintain the weight loss

[Jingthing]

What was the topic? "The key to why most people who lose weight fail to maintain the weight loss"

IMHO mainly because its hard to make lifetime long changes. Its easy to let the bad habits slip back in.

I agree with that but I think there are also sometimes other complex factors at play with long term obese people, of a biological nature, that science may not fully understand yet. In any case, to maintain weight loss, conscious vigilance is a necessity for a chance at success. There is some good news in that report I posted on the thread about success stories, there was a consensus of sorts that it DOES get easier to maintain the weight loss after a few YEARS of doing so. In other words, more conscious vigilance in the early stage of the maintenance phase which possibly becomes less onerous later. Anyway, that's how I read that report.

[Jingthing]

Here is the full length section of Weight of the Nation, the Biology of Weight Loss. It explains VERY CLEARLY what most long term obese people know. Your BODY is fighting you BIG TIME when you do lose weight to go back up in weight. It is indeed a lifetime struggle to maintain weight loss, and the vast majority lose that fight. The reason is not about morality failure, rather it is MUCH MORE COMPLEX and largely BIOLOGICALLY BASED. That said, PLEASE watch the video to the end to understand why it is not "an excuse" or "depressing" to learn more about the TRUTH of the complexity of obesity. Knowing more means we have more tools to understand the nature of the fight. Eventually science will have better answers to help obese people, but knowing the facts is a reasonable start:

BTW, on the subject of LEPTIN you can't do anything directly about leptin with food choices. It would need to be injected daily and that isn't practical. However it may be that eating HIGH PROTEIN breakfasts (such as eggs) and higher FIBER diets is a way to INDIRECTLY be helpful with leptin.

[robblok]

Jt,

No to attack you but this guy acts like there is consensus that you cant reset a set point while I have read that there is no such consensus. I have read quite a lot about this as its an important thing. As you might have read in an other topic right now I am having trouble gaining weight on healthy food (sure if i go unhealthy i can gain) body seems to keep hanging around an preset weight.

I am not so sure that it can't be reset and other scientist are not either. This scientist thinks it is impossible, let us hope it is not there is proof for either side. Maybe its a combination of things that reset you not sure as I never have done.

But i like the study only they did not do a long follow up. Meaning let them stay on that weight for a year and then check again. They measured it right after the weight loss. I understand that it will be hard to do such a study as it is really expensive. They were quickly injecting leptin after the weight loss.. not waiting if it would get back or that there were natural ways to get it back. Still i like the results and how it works shows a lot about leptin. Seems he is pushing a bit like you need leptin and you cant do it yourself. While he has not done a long term research on people who did keep the weight off. or to see what happens if you keep it off for a year and how leptin is then.

I actually got an ebook about leptin and how you can raise it and such it was interesting to say the least. But there is so much info around and much conflicting information. But they should do more research.

[Jingthing]

They ARE doing more research. You should consider watching the entire series. Including a section about current and future research. According to this show, the vast majority of scientific research on obesity is happening in the USA (mostly GOVERNMENT associated so no it's not all about a BIG PHARMA conspiracy) and it is VERY extensive. It is still early but it's really clear science knows a lot more than they knew even 10 years ago. Research is going to be the key here for helping the masses of people in the long term. It NEEDS to be made easier. There is no other way to make real solutions realistic for the masses. Not everyone climbs Mount Everest and it's not realistic to expect everyone to ever climb Mount Everest.

However, now we are all stuck in these times and we have our lives to live NOW, so we've got to do the best we can, with what we know NOW. The best we have now is for most obese people a VERY HARD ROAD to maintain long term weight loss. The idea is to make it easier. Anyone who thinks this is an easy thing today and just a simple morality failing is totally misinformed. That kind of thinking leads to stigmatization and discrimination -- the exact opposite of the attitude that can actually HELP the people dealing with obesity.

I tend to agree with mainstream science that you can't change leptin DIRECTLY with diet. Only injections. They seem really definitive about that no matter what your "ebook" might say. You can find an ebook to say anything. Actual scientists who are specialists in their fields carry much more weight, in my view.

[robblok]

They ARE doing more research. You should consider watching the entire series. Including a section about current and future research. According to this show, the vast majority of scientific research on obesity is happening in the USA (mostly GOVERNMENT associated so no it's not all about a BIG PHARMA conspiracy) and it is VERY extensive. It is still early but it's really clear science knows a lot more than they knew even 10 years ago. Research is going to be the key here for helping the masses of people in the long term. It NEEDS to be made easier. There is no other way to make real solutions realistic for the masses. Not everyone climbs Mount Everest and it's not realistic to expect everyone to ever climb Mount Everest.

However, now we are all stuck in these times and we have our lives to live NOW, so we've got to do the best we can, with what we know NOW. The best we have now is for most obese people a VERY HARD ROAD to maintain long term weight loss. The idea is to make it easier. Anyone who thinks this is an easy thing today and just a simple morality failing is totally misinformed. That kind of thinking leads to stigmatization and discrimination -- the exact opposite of the attitude that can actually HELP the people dealing with obesity.

I tend to agree with mainstream science that you can't change leptin DIRECTLY with diet. Only injections. They seem really definitive about that no matter what your "ebook" might say. You can find an ebook to say anything. Actual scientists who are specialists in their fields carry much more weight, in my view.

My ebook had some rules about leptin and optimizing it but some go counter to what i do and want to do. The guy who wrote it is supposedly famous for his research. Personally I have not done much with the information as I believe that there is too much information out there and i have no idea anymore what to follow. Except that what I am doing now seems to work as my body is defending my lower weight even when i want to go up in weight.

Mastering leptin Byron J. Richards,ccn (that was the book i read)

Currently reading less on loosing weight as i have done that.. but I like the setpoint theory as i was on a website a while back and they were going to do a lot of research. Believe the professor asking others was Indian. That there is some sort of setpoint I agree.. not sure if i agree that you can't change it some say you can others say you cant.

Its good that they do loads of research as its a huge problem in the USA and the rest of the world.

[Jingthing]

Again, you can't DIRECTLY get leptin from food and scientists well understand why. So it MUST be injected and that's not likely to be an answer for the masses. I already said there MIGHT be indirect ways of impacting on your leptin situation, just no DIRECT methods without injection.

On the breakfast thing, there might be reasons to go for EGGS for breakfast:

1. Most all long term successful weight loss maintainers eat an ample daily breakfast

2. Recent studies linking eggs for breakfast with non-obese people

3. Less persuasive, but a POSSIBILITY eating higher protein breakfasts might be helpful INDIRECTLY with leptin for weight loss maintainers

[robblok]

Again, you can't DIRECTLY get leptin from food and scientists well understand why. So it MUST be injected and that's not likely to be an answer for the masses. I already said there MIGHT be indirect ways of impacting on your leptin situation, just no DIRECT methods without injection.

On the breakfast thing, there might be reasons to go for EGGS for breakfast:

1. Most all long term successful weight loss maintainers eat an ample daily breakfast

2. Recent studies linking eggs for breakfast with non-obese people

3. Less persuasive, but a POSSIBILITY eating higher protein breakfasts might be helpful INDIRECTLY with leptin for weight loss maintainers

JT from personal experience i say eggs make a great breakfast they really keep you full. High protein breakfasts do the same.

Because i make a big ommelette later on the day with eggs and minced pork and onion and such as a complete meal (sometimes with salad) I don't go for eggs in the morning.

I take my oatmeal (more as before as i wanted to gain weight and is not working) and added a protein shake to my breakfast. I am full for a long time that is for sure. I am trying to eat more but the healthy stuff just fills me up. Of course I am not eating massively more (as I am sure to go overshoot then) but its at least 10-20% more as before and still weight stays relatively the same. Even had the belt get looser.

[robblok]

JT

I read here that exercise influences leptin

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12861230

Of course that might not be a sufficient enough influence.

[Jingthing]

In any case, pretty much all successful long term weight loss maintainers do some kind of exercise frequently. In many cases, it's only walking, and sometimes that's enough. Relating to the video, keep in mind the main finding ... that people who have lost weight have bodies that are fighting them to get back the fat. That's something that most yo yo dieters know already in their gut, but it's great that science has now EXPLAINED the actual biological reasons for it.

I prefer to view these findings in a positive light. Do people "slack" after losing a chunk of weight, yes they do. One reason they might think it's OK is the feeling that more normal weight equals more normal person, that they are the same as a person NATURALLY that weight. But, no, we now know that is not the case. So a person committed to maintaining weight loss can have a better understanding of WHY he needs to be lifetime vigilant and can never take his new lower weight for granted. In my view, even without much help from science yet, that understanding can INCREASE the chances of success.

[robblok]

In any case, pretty much all successful long term weight loss maintainers do some kind of exercise frequently. In many cases, it's only walking, and sometimes that's enough. Relating to the video, keep in mind the main finding ... that people who have lost weight have bodies that are fighting them to get back the fat. That's something that most yo yo dieters know already in their gut, but it's great that science has now EXPLAINED the actual biological reasons for it.

I prefer to view these findings in a positive light. Do people "slack" after losing a chunk of weight, yes they do. One reason they might think it's OK is the feeling that more normal weight equals more normal person, that they are the same as a person NATURALLY that weight. But, no, we now know that is not the case. So a person committed to maintaining weight loss can have a better understanding of WHY he needs to be lifetime vigilant and can never take his new lower weight for granted. In my view, even without much help from science yet, that understanding can INCREASE the chances of success.

True knowledge is the road to success. Without knowledge you can't prepare yourself.

Yes you are right about the exercise.. even though it does not have much influence on weight loss it might have more impact on maintaining weight.

[Jingthing]

An interesting article.

Food for thought.

I kind of fits in this topic, more or less.

But it's about a lot more.

It fits into my general view of how hard (low odds) it really is for those effected by obesity to maintain weight loss long term ... but I think the more aware we are of the different factors, the better.

Perhaps one of the reasons that weight-loss interventions fail, then, is that they have, for the most part, centered on personal life-style choices: your ability to exercise restraint and self-control. Because environmental temptations only grow stronger over time, individuals who have successfully lost weight may find it increasingly hard to keep it off. It takes more and more effort—in the face of greater and greater environmental resistance. Lowe’s solution is to focus on the environment: the psychological hunger cues that have taken over our basic physiology. “If a lot of the problem that overweight people face is exposure to too much delicious food in growing portions, that has big treatment implications,” he said.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/mariakonnikova/2014/04/why-we-eat-and-why-we-gain-weight.html?utm_source=www&utm_medium=tw&utm_campaign=20140410

[robblok]

An interesting article.

Food for thought.

I kind of fits in this topic, more or less.

But it's about a lot more.

It fits into my general view of how hard (low odds) it really is for those effected by obesity to maintain weight loss long term ... but I think the more aware we are of the different factors, the better.

Perhaps one of the reasons that weight-loss interventions fail, then, is that they have, for the most part, centered on personal life-style choices: your ability to exercise restraint and self-control. Because environmental temptations only grow stronger over time, individuals who have successfully lost weight may find it increasingly hard to keep it off. It takes more and more effort—in the face of greater and greater environmental resistance. Lowe’s solution is to focus on the environment: the psychological hunger cues that have taken over our basic physiology. “If a lot of the problem that overweight people face is exposure to too much delicious food in growing portions, that has big treatment implications,” he said.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/mariakonnikova/2014/04/why-we-eat-and-why-we-gain-weight.html?utm_source=www&utm_medium=tw&utm_campaign=20140410

one thing is for sure there is now a lot more temptation as there used to be. For me at least if i compare it with when I was young. When i was young my parents used to restrict the amount of coca cola and such we could drink. I don't see that happening much nowadays.

Part of being sucessfull in my case is making sure that those temptations are not there when i hit a weak moment. Don't buy it before and you won't use it. That might be hard for people who are out of the house all day in shopping malls and such. Home cooked foods are so much better but here in Thailand its so cheap to eat out and its always worse as cooking your own meals (few exceptions like sushi / veg Vietnamese food or even sizzler if you stick to meat and salads).

[onlycw]

Well, I fell off the wagon and went on a 2-3 days chocolate binge. Added 3+ kg and haven't shed those yet.

Psychological needs need to be understood and addressed, too.

What makes us overeat or go for certain foods?

[Jingthing]

It's not just psychological. It's physiological too. Our modern bodies are in many ways not our friends in our modern environment. We're adapted for leaner times.

[h90]

It's not just psychological. It's physiological too. Our modern bodies are in many ways not our friends in our modern environment. We're adapted for leaner times.

We are designed to walk the forest hungry and find something......natural food, lots of walking, some fights....not sitting all the day and eat pizza....

[Jingthing]

It's not just psychological. It's physiological too. Our modern bodies are in many ways not our friends in our modern environment. We're adapted for leaner times.

We are designed to walk the forest hungry and find something......natural food, lots of walking, some fights....not sitting all the day and eat pizza....

More or less and when people got obese in those conditions the body didn't assume the bounteous life would continue because it generally didn't ... so basically it's really hard to become a lifetime thin person once you've been a obese person in a modern food environment where the external famine generally never comes.

Said before, but for those not yet obese don't let it happen, that's the best and always the EASIEST cure!

[JSixpack]

Well, I fell off the wagon and went on a 2-3 days chocolate binge. Added 3+ kg and haven't shed those yet.

Psychological needs need to be understood and addressed, too.

What makes us overeat or go for certain foods?

You can get almost the same taste and satisfy the urges in some healthier way. As for chocolate, just use unsweetened cocoa w/ some added Stevia as an artificial sweetener and eat something healthy along with it so you avoid eating too much of it. Instead of breading, use cauliflower substitute (google for how). There are countless examples on the low-carb website.

If you're not silly, this approach will work pretty well. Overweight friend of mine was addicted to potato chips. I bought him some fat-free chips made w/ olestra. Tasted great. He INSISTED they tasted bad, but I think in a blind taste taste, he couldn't have told the difference. He refused to eat them so I ate them all (which I shouldn't have, but if there's chips around, I've GOT to eat 'em; couldn't let 'em go to waste, now could I?). Key point: don't have any temptations in the house!

He's dead now, only made it to 57.

[kevvy]

I am OBESE ,and on track to lose my first 20kgs... But bloody hell my body fights me and well as my mind. Every day I wake up to fight for my health now . To me this is not a yo yo diet , it is not a diet it is a lifestyle change and it will last forever. I use to think , I am not that FAT and I can lose it anytime . How wrong someone can think.

kevvy

[yougivemebaby]

I am the same. Yo yo all the time. As

I get older I seem to be on the heavier end. I have never said I like the gym. It is beyond the most boring thing I have ever done. I can do the repetitive exercises. Get strong and cut but then I get bored and don't go back for months.

Luckily I realized any school or university has many many options ! I love playing football, tennis, basketball rugby. The beauty about Thailand is you can usually just walk in on a field and start playing. I have been playing frequently for the past couple of months and the weight had been just melting off.

I think it would be much more if I was watching what I eat. I have been having tons of fun and I don't even know I'm exercising.

Keep it fun and interesting but do something !!

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Kitsune]

I too disagree with the OP.

Losing weight does not have to mean to enter a life struggle.

I lost 25 pounds in 7 months so far and I am aiming at 40 pounds weight loss,probably within a year or so.

My diet has freed me from the main modern addictions : Sugar -fat - salt.

So, it's really easy. Your palate changes and you are not craving the same things you used to.

I won't have any problem keeping the weight because I will simply never eat the same way again, and I don't like junk processed food anymore. it's more than a diet,it's a lifestyle change .

[h90]

I too disagree with the OP.

Losing weight does not have to mean to enter a life struggle.

I lost 25 pounds in 7 months so far and I am aiming at 40 pounds weight loss,probably within a year or so.

My diet has freed me from the main modern addictions : Sugar -fat - salt.

So, it's really easy. Your palate changes and you are not craving the same things you used to.

I won't have any problem keeping the weight because I will simply never eat the same way again, and I don't like junk processed food anymore. it's more than a diet,it's a lifestyle change .

I most probably did something complete different than you did. Very high protein, on the diet almost no carbs. now low.

But no processed food, almost all cooked myself (and a bit beef soup from a trusted source without sugar and without MSG).

I and all my family always ate a lot of salt. But somehow automatically it got reduced. I think the self made food doesn't need so much salt to taste good.

I recall when I almost eat no carbs, I sometimes ate half a carrot in the salad and it tasted very sweet.

Sometimes I ate half an apple (and not the sweetest one) and it taste so sweet that it didn't taste good anymore...Just too sweet to be good.

I tried a sip from a zero sugar coke after 6 month....and it taste like a cheap coke with some thinner in it.

So what we taste changes with how we eat.

After a while the body know again what is right and what is wrong.

[Kitsune]

I too disagree with the OP.

Losing weight does not have to mean to enter a life struggle.

I lost 25 pounds in 7 months so far and I am aiming at 40 pounds weight loss,probably within a year or so.

My diet has freed me from the main modern addictions : Sugar -fat - salt.

So, it's really easy. Your palate changes and you are not craving the same things you used to.

I won't have any problem keeping the weight because I will simply never eat the same way again, and I don't like junk processed food anymore. it's more than a diet,it's a lifestyle change .

I most probably did something complete different than you did. Very high protein, on the diet almost no carbs. now low.

But no processed food, almost all cooked myself (and a bit beef soup from a trusted source without sugar and without MSG).

I and all my family always ate a lot of salt. But somehow automatically it got reduced. I think the self made food doesn't need so much salt to taste good.

I recall when I almost eat no carbs, I sometimes ate half a carrot in the salad and it tasted very sweet.

Sometimes I ate half an apple (and not the sweetest one) and it taste so sweet that it didn't taste good anymore...Just too sweet to be good.

I tried a sip from a zero sugar coke after 6 month....and it taste like a cheap coke with some thinner in it.

So what we taste changes with how we eat.

After a while the body know again what is right and what is wrong.

I definitely agree,your taste buds change,with what you eat.

Our palates are polluted by the food industry that keeps adding more sugar in every food. As sweet is the most powerful of our 5 tastes,it overtakes all the others. I still cannot eat anything bitter for instance. my dad always tells me off for that so it's a long working process !

Yep making your own food is the only way to avoid over salty...

Non processed means only foods that you can find in a garden or that you can make in your kitchen like pastas.

For me, all animal products could be classified as processed, since your are trying to get the minerals, carbs, proteins etc, second hand, instead of getting them directly from plants.

[h90]

I too disagree with the OP.

Losing weight does not have to mean to enter a life struggle.

I lost 25 pounds in 7 months so far and I am aiming at 40 pounds weight loss,probably within a year or so.

My diet has freed me from the main modern addictions : Sugar -fat - salt.

So, it's really easy. Your palate changes and you are not craving the same things you used to.

I won't have any problem keeping the weight because I will simply never eat the same way again, and I don't like junk processed food anymore. it's more than a diet,it's a lifestyle change .

I most probably did something complete different than you did. Very high protein, on the diet almost no carbs. now low.

But no processed food, almost all cooked myself (and a bit beef soup from a trusted source without sugar and without MSG).

I and all my family always ate a lot of salt. But somehow automatically it got reduced. I think the self made food doesn't need so much salt to taste good.

I recall when I almost eat no carbs, I sometimes ate half a carrot in the salad and it tasted very sweet.

Sometimes I ate half an apple (and not the sweetest one) and it taste so sweet that it didn't taste good anymore...Just too sweet to be good.

I tried a sip from a zero sugar coke after 6 month....and it taste like a cheap coke with some thinner in it.

So what we taste changes with how we eat.

After a while the body know again what is right and what is wrong.

I definitely agree,your taste buds change,with what you eat.

Our palates are polluted by the food industry that keeps adding more sugar in every food. As sweet is the most powerful of our 5 tastes,it overtakes all the others. I still cannot eat anything bitter for instance. my dad always tells me off for that so it's a long working process !

Yep making your own food is the only way to avoid over salty...

Non processed means only foods that you can find in a garden or that you can make in your kitchen like pastas.

For me, all animal products could be classified as processed, since your are trying to get the minerals, carbs, proteins etc, second hand, instead of getting them directly from plants.

Yesterday they brought me pork soup.....what shall I say: It was sweet.....putting sugar in the pork soup

[Jingthing]

I'm going to stick this link on this topic, because I think the content directly relates to some of the ideas in the OP.

Another way of looking at these problems, perhaps an alternative theory as it were, not yet fully proven ... but it's clear to me it's an exciting time for obesity research ...

This is just a snippet. You really do need to read the entire article if you want to understand what this is about.

We discuss this hypothesis in an article just published in JAMA, The Journal of the American Medical Association. According to this alternative view, factors in the environment have triggered fat cells in our bodies to take in and store excessive amounts of glucose and other calorie-rich compounds. Since fewer calories are available to fuel metabolism, the brain tells the body to increase calorie intake (we feel hungry) and save energy (our metabolism slows down). Eating more solves this problem temporarily but also accelerates weight gain. Cutting calories reverses the weight gain for a short while, making us think we have control over our body weight, but predictably increases hunger and slows metabolism even more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/opinion/sunday/always-hungry-heres-why.html?_r=0

[h90]

I'm going to stick this link on this topic, because I think the content directly relates to some of the ideas in the OP.

Another way of looking at these problems, perhaps an alternative theory as it were, not yet fully proven ... but it's clear to me it's an exciting time for obesity research ...

This is just a snippet. You really do need to read the entire article if you want to understand what this is about.

We discuss this hypothesis in an article just published in JAMA, The Journal of the American Medical Association. According to this alternative view, factors in the environment have triggered fat cells in our bodies to take in and store excessive amounts of glucose and other calorie-rich compounds. Since fewer calories are available to fuel metabolism, the brain tells the body to increase calorie intake (we feel hungry) and save energy (our metabolism slows down). Eating more solves this problem temporarily but also accelerates weight gain. Cutting calories reverses the weight gain for a short while, making us think we have control over our body weight, but predictably increases hunger and slows metabolism even more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/opinion/sunday/always-hungry-heres-why.html?_r=0

Interesting, thanks!

What is not mentioned and I believe it is important:

The fast carbs and sugar are in the processed food is one big problem, but I think the problem gets bigger if it comes together with fat.

Only sugars without fat are bad but not as bad in combination with fat.

And of course the food is optimized so that you eat as much as possible. McDonalds had big researches on how to design the food so the customer buy one more after eating it.

So it is mainly the fast carbs but added the high fat and overeating.

[Jingthing]

Obese people eat for different reasons at different times like anyone else, but I think it is kind of "mysterious" why so many obese people still feel VERY HUNGRY after eating quite a lot so then eat even more because it's natural for humans to feed their hunger ... and this "alternative" theory provides a possible clue or even explanation.

Not talking here about gluttony, food lust, emotionally triggered over eating but the strong PHYSICAL feeling of hunger itself.

This isn't the first source where the issue of why obese people tend to be so HUNGRY is explored.

[h90]

Obese people eat for different reasons at different times like anyone else, but I think it is kind of "mysterious" why so many obese people still feel VERY HUNGRY after eating quite a lot so then eat even more because it's natural for humans to feed their hunger ... and this "alternative" theory provides a possible clue or even explanation.

Not talking here about gluttony, food lust, emotionally triggered over eating but the strong PHYSICAL feeling of hunger itself.

This isn't the first source where the issue of why obese people tend to be so HUNGRY is explored.

The easiest way would be to never get fat first.

If you get feed fat by your parents, than it is very hard to correct later on.

But the only ways to control the weight of children are communists/fascists ways (both systems removed the children as early as possible from the parents).

[Jingthing]

I agree. Prevention is best but too late for so many. As I've said before I was born oversized and before I knew what hit me I was an obese boy. Bad parents! If you saw the crap they fed me it would be no mystery. My Mom was also a chain smoker. I just heard on the news that the kids of smoking mothers are much more likely to be obese. But we're stuck dealing with whatever cards we're dealt ... so ...

[h90]

I agree. Prevention is best but too late for so many. As I've said before I was born oversized and before I knew what hit me I was an obese boy. Bad parents! If you saw the crap they fed me it would be no mystery. My Mom was also a chain smoker. I just heard on the news that the kids of smoking mothers are much more likely to be obese. But we're stuck dealing with whatever cards we're dealt ... so ...

yes but it is frustrating that there is not even a theoretic solution of fixing the problem in future.

(that people are way too fat now, is a smaller problem, the bigger one is that new born babies are fed into being obese adults).

[Jingthing]

Yes, societies that aren't dealing with actual hunger and starvation probably have this other problem and there is a lot that can be done in youth for prevention ... and so much easier and more likely to succeed than later once the problems are set in. In my view, it ought to be a bigger political issue. Such as pushing large food companies to take more responsibility to do their part as well.