Jump to content
BANGKOK 25 April 2019 21:16
Jingthing

Major evidence that low carb diets not needed for long term weight loss/maintenance success

Recommended Posts

self delete, because off topic

Edited by h90

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes the general topic of fatness creates too many TRUE BELIEVERS.

(Replying now to a deleted message, oh well.)

Edited by Jingthing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...

The reason you lost loads of weight on no low carb is that you burned through your glycogen and that means you loose the water it holds. (loss of water-weight) . Later when you stop you refill the glycogen and get the water weight back. That is why it has to be about fat loss not weight loss.

...

So you have intimate knowledge of the inside of my body? So a non-doctor with info about me from a forum thinks he knows enough to talk so definitely about the nature of my weight loss. You don't really know what you just said. That's just some parroting back of something that you believe. I don't know where you got it, it might be true in some scenarios.

In any case, you have no idea the exact level of carbs I eat, and what kinds of carbs. You couldn't possibly know. Besides I haven't really lost loads of weight, it has been a very slow process over YEARS already. Even before I had started posting here I had a few years of very moderate weight loss due to health promoting eating and moderate exercise.

In future, please do not address me personally in that tone of authority. You don't have it. Nobody posting here does. I understand your intention probably wasn't to annoy, but I consider it disrespectful to be personally lectured that there is something defective about the nature of my weight loss on this forum by someone without any authority to do so.

It's also REALLY BIZARRE that in a thread which in the OP presented strong evidence that many long term successful weight losers/maintainers have done so on MODERATELY high carb programs, we hear from you basically an indictment of not going low carb.

In my view, the point of this thread was to suggest there is no one holy grail answer for everyone, and it is possible to achieve real success with low carb OR moderately high carb.

I made a few assumptions like that you were in a caloric deficit and that you kept to the real low carb diet.

Then its normal for the body to burn the last of the glycogen and switch over on ketones. Glycocen hold water.

This is a total plausible scenario and explains it all.. The moment you start to eat carbs again you hold water again.

Simple biology.

But i admit only try if you were in a caloric deficit and low enough carb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That didn't make any sense.

On this thread, I mentioned three eating programs.

1. The one I am on now for a long time, which is NOT low carb. It is not high carb either. I thought you meant that because your original text said NO LOW CARB which I read as NOT low carb which could describe my current long term eating style.

2. A brief mention of a short period in the past where I tested an extreme fad low carb diet. I said NOTHING about losing any weight on that! I wasn't on it long and don't even remember. I don't like MAYONAISSE that much.

3. A brief mention of a long FAST of over one month where I did lose lots of weight and then of course gained it back quick. That wasn't a no carb diet. That was a NO NOTHING diet. Is that what you meant be a no carb diet? A fast? If so, why didn't you just use the word FAST. That is very specific -- FAST.

I am sorry about any confusion, but I'm still not clear on what you're talking about as I can only see what a person writes and not read minds.

Edited by Jingthing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JT a fast woudl produce the same result as no carbs .

I thought you said something about gong low carb and loosing a lot of weight.

But it works something like this the moment you go low carb you start to burn through your glycogen stores. Each gram of glycocen holds 4 grams of water. So depending on how much you store (obese and real muscular people have more as lean people). The more fast weight you loose.

The moment you start eating carbs again (and drinking water ect) you fill those stores again and gain weight back.

This is a reason why low carb diets and any diet restricting carbs start off fast.

It really was not my intention to insult you at all just telling a bit why low carb or fasts can show strange things weight wise.

That does not mean you can't loose weight on it, but the initial weight is often water weight.

I hope i made myself clear, my apologies if not.



Weight Loss


When calories are reduced, your body gets energy from its stores of glycogen, which are carbohydrates in your muscles and liver. Glycogen holds onto water, so when it's burned, it releases water and causes a loss of water weight. University of Illinois Extension states glycogen is the first to go with weight loss.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/307905-glycogen-and-weight-loss/

Edited by robblok

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mentioned the radical low carb diet and that I hated it.

I said nothing about losing weight on it or regain, just that I hated it.

I mentioned a fast, that was the one where I said I lost a lot of weight fast, and regained it fast.

It is not normal to call a fast a low carb diet. A fast is a fast.

Regrets that this misunderstanding occurred and my feelings got frayed. It sounded (as explained above) that you were disrespecting the nature of my weight loss on my very sensible CURRENT long term program.

Your apology is accepted.

Edited by Jingthing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Below something of someone much more eloquent as me


Water Balance

This is the easiest to explain so I’ll tackle it first. First note that water contains zero energy and zero calories. I can add a billion gallons of water to either side of the equation and it doesn’t affect the equation itself (quick note: some work suggested that ingestion of water, or cold water, could increase energy expenditure so that is an indirect way that water might impact on the equation, but this is not what I’m talking about).

However, water balance issues completely screw up expectations about changes in body mass. Every woman reading this knows that she can swing some amount of body weight (could be a couple pounds, could be 10 pounds) across a menstrual cycle and carbohydrate intake has a massive impact on water balance. But those changes don’t mean anything in terms of the energy balance equation.

Early studies of very-low carb diets (all discussed in detail in my first book The Ketogenic Diet) reported water loss ranging from like 1-15 pounds in the first few days. I’m fairly little and I can drop 7 lbs of water in 3 days of carbohydrate restriction (it comes right back with carb-loading).

Similarly, if you add a bunch of sodium to someone’s diet after a period of low-sodium intake, they will gain several pounds of water. But it doesn’t affect the energy balance equation in any way because water has no caloric/energy value.

I’ve talked about this on the site in various contexts, in the article Of Whooshes and Squishy Fat, I talk about how water retention can mask true fat loss in some people. The deficit is there, the activity is there and nothing is happening. Then boom, overnight, 5 pounds drops off. It’s not a thermodynamic miracle, nor does it defy the energy balance equation, water shifts just screw things up.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, don't go on long fasts. That was crazy. I was young and living the bohemian beach town life in California. I could have easily killed myself. It was a spiritual experience though, nothing to do with food health, and I'm happy I had the experience because of that.

Edited by Jingthing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mentioned the radical low carb diet and that I hated it.

I said nothing about losing weight on it or regain, just that I hated it.

I mentioned a fast, that was the one where I said I lost a lot of weight fast, and regained it fast.

It is not normal to call a fast a low carb diet. A fast is a fast.

Regrets that this misunderstanding occurred and my feelings got frayed. It sounded (as explained above) that you were disrespecting the nature of my weight loss on my very sensible CURRENT long term program.

Your apology is accepted.

No comments on your current weight-loss program you seem to be doing a good thing and are happy with it. How can i be negative on something that works for you.

A fast is a fast but does the same as low carb to the body. Makes the body use the glycogen with no way of replenishing it.

I also believe there is no holey grail in weight loss there are just many methods some that work beter as others but not all are suited for everyone. We just have to find what works for us.

The thing about breakfasts is something i read often ( i always take breakfast) but i often wondered by skipping it if i would not be better off (according to the research not )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, don't go on long fasts. That was crazy. I was young and living the bohemian beach town life in California. I could have easily killed myself. It was a spiritual experience though, nothing to do with food health, and I'm happy I had the experience because of that.

Curious how long a fast ?

I never really fasted (gone a day without food on some drugs (not weightloss) when younger but that was it)

Going without food is hard for me.. only times it is not so hard when I am doing stuff like snorkeling, i can be in the water for hours and forget about eating and such. This wont happen of course if I am home as then I will be thinking of food on set times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was at least a month, perhaps even six weeks. Something in that range. I wasn't working but did manage to go out bike riding! When I did that, I remember thinking, this shouldn't be legal, because I was feeling kind of "high" from the process. Basically you're really hungry for the first days, your tongue gets all weird, and then you go into a NO HUNGER phase. I guess you're starting to starve to death. I can't believe I really did that, but I did! No supervision, only a book about it, but I remember you need to be careful eating foods again and start with liquids which I did. As weight loss it was a total disaster. After the fast, pretty much eating one normal meal and you'd gain 5 pounds. Pretty sure I gained back more than I lost super fast. Oh well ...

Edited by Jingthing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

High protein doesn't cause the kidneys to dysfunction, only if you don't supply your body with enough liquid mainly in the form of water. Also, it's all individualized. What is big meal for one man, might be snack for another. Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Only true if followed in the short term, ample evidence now that longer term it has a negative effect on the renal system;

http://www.mayoclinic.org/high-protein-diets/expert-answers/FAQ-20058207

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
High protein doesn't cause the kidneys to dysfunction, only if you don't supply your body with enough liquid mainly in the form of water. Also, it's all individualized. What is big meal for one man, might be snack for another. Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Only true if followed in the short term, ample evidence now that longer term it has a negative effect on the renal system;

http://www.mayoclinic.org/high-protein-diets/expert-answers/FAQ-20058207

As you said..evidence now. That's what we pursue as truth now because they said it. They always come up with evidence to prove things. Then a bit later they come up with a different one, proving that they were previously wrong.

So there is no evidence, only talking.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

High protein doesn't cause the kidneys to dysfunction, only if you don't supply your body with enough liquid mainly in the form of water. Also, it's all individualized. What is big meal for one man, might be snack for another. Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Only true if followed in the short term, ample evidence now that longer term it has a negative effect on the renal system;

http://www.mayoclinic.org/high-protein-diets/expert-answers/FAQ-20058207

As you said..evidence now. That's what we pursue as truth now because they said it. They always come up with evidence to prove things. Then a bit later they come up with a different one, proving that they were previously wrong.

So there is no evidence, only talking.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They're your kidneys, do as you wish with them. All I can add is that I was diagnosed with a swelling on my left kidney (forget medical term and can't be arsed to look it up) following a lower carb/higer protein diet lasting about six months. The symptoms are an ache in lower back and decreased urine flow, higher BUN levels are also apparent, test is done by ultrasound exam. Not life threatening or even very dangerous as long as diet is changed but worrying at the time and inconvenient, the nephrologist confirmed diet as cause.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Relating to the subject, the dramatic info about the long term successful people always eating breakfast.

I do as well.

I am happy with my breakfasts, mostly lowfat yogurt with limited non-sweet grains, chopped fruit, and some almonds.

I vary it sometimes with sardine or egg based breakfasts.

There was recently a report stating that people who eat EGGS for breakfast are less likely to fat.

This is different than weight loss success stories, similar to news saying people who eat NUTS are less likely to be fat.

Anyway, wondering, what are people doing about eggs for breakfast?

I know eggs are great nutrition, and have been getting much better press recently, but I am still afraid of eating too many of them.

Like two a day daily for breakfast still feels to me too many eggs.

I have one sometimes in other meals as well and they are used in many cooked dishes in restaurants as well.

BTW, to expand on my healthy fats comment before, like almonds, they are good for you but they are very caloric, so you really can't get away with eating too many of them!

I saw this about eggs and how they somehow produce and maintain a feeling of a full stomach for a very long period.

And isn't it true. Scrambled eggs for breakfast and I can happily skip lunch or certainly don't feel like a large lunch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...