Foreigners Arrested for Not Carrying Passport

[gk10002000]

I just read the news article where the Thai police were checking on many bars and arrested several foreigners for not carrying their passports. I would never normally carry my passport around. I keep it "locked up" in my hotel safe. I do carry a copy of the ID page from my passport on me. The article didn't say if something like that would be good enough or if any of the falangs offered to show that instead of their passports.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Technically all foreigners are required by law to have an official ID on their person at all times (just like Thai people). This means their passports. Copies of this or that page are not official IDs, though in certain instances may suffice, as may a Thai driving license.

The purpose is to not only identify people, but to see if their visa status is valid. Having photo copies of your picture page is therefore not sufficient. Even with a copy of the visa/entry stamp page it's still insufficient as they could be from another passport.

All that being said, I live in Thailand and do not carry my passport with me and in 15 years have yet to be asked to show it at any time. Just bad luck for these folks.

Edited February 14, 2014 by OMGImInPattaya

[surangw]

probably an excuse for an "on the spot fine"

[JSixpack]

In all likelihood the 4 foreign nationals had no ID on them whatsoever. The police must have checked other foreigners as well. But few if any carry around their passports clubbing at night, so those foreigners probably did have some form of ID, whether driver's license or passport copy or both.

I don't think the 4 w/o passports will be charged w/ any crime as long as they can produce their passports. They surely can. So, not that big of a deal.

[wpcoe]

There can be a difference if it's the regular "BIB" Royal Thai Police or if it's Thai Immigrations Police asking for ID.

If you are in a random street stop by the BIB, they are usually satisified with any type of ID that verifies your identity. A drivers license (Thai or foreign), a photocopy of your passport photo page, etc.

If you are subject to an interview by Thai Immigrations Police -- and they often piggyback on (if not lead) raids at bars to check on immigrations status of bar workers & customers -- then you better have your passport. They specifically are looking for legal immigrations status. You *are* required to present documentation of your immigrations status on demand, and for 99% of us that is our passport.

[Gone]

This above is all true however since 2011 they are now accepting those small laminated copies of your passport however you SHOULD have bothe the "face page" on the front and your "visa) page on the back but the OP is correct as Pattaya has a new "police cheif" and has already done a walk down (himselfe involved too) and is plannng on a "round up" type of situation so if you DON'T have your originsl documents then I reccoment that you do get the above.

[namatjira]

Thai drivers license has passport number but in 3 years I have never been asked to produce a passport,

[spike]

I read the story on Pattaya One and the falangs seemed to have been in a dodgy bar. The bar in question had been on the police radar for sometime.

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[Langsuan Man]

Thai drivers license has passport number but in 3 years I have never been asked to produce a passport,

Means nothing, that was the passport number you had when you got your license. It now may be expired or even worse you are here on an overstay. Don't count on the police accepting your license as proof of your legality

[LennyW]

Thai drivers license has passport number but in 3 years I have never been asked to produce a passport,

Means nothing, that was the passport number you had when you got your license. It now may be expired or even worse you are here on an overstay. Don't count on the police accepting your license as proof of your legality

I always thought only immigration officer's could demand to see your passport, police could only request a photo id?

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[larsjohnsson]

So then I can not leave my passport at an embassy to get a visa

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[JSixpack]

You *are* required to present documentation of your immigrations status on demand, and for 99% of us that is our passport.

"Presenting" doesn't mean "presenting the passport that you must be carrying on you at all times."

This has been discussed ad nauseam here on TV. Look up the many previous threads. Nobody's ever been able to find any law saying that foreigners must carry their passports, specifically, at all times. Nobody's been fined or deported for not doing so. (If you think there is such a law, then quote it.) They must have a passport, yes. So you can be detained until you produce it, if BiB or Immigration so chooses. If you have no passport, the obvious follows. What else is new?

Keep carrying those copies and DL.

[manarak]

Never had a problem presenting just my driver licence.

My guess is that these arrests were made for other reasons. The cops probably thought the foreigners were acting suspiciously, and then it was a question of finding a reason for arrest to win more time to investigate them. Maybe they forgot the drugs testing kit at the station.

I doubt the average Pattaya visitor would get arrested.

[TimTang]

You *are* required to present documentation of your immigrations status on demand, and for 99% of us that is our passport.

"Presenting" doesn't mean "presenting the passport that you must be carrying on you at all times."

This has been discussed ad nauseam here on TV. Look up the many previous threads. Nobody's ever been able to find any law saying that foreigners must carry their passports, specifically, at all times. Nobody's been fined or deported for not doing so. (If you think there is such a law, then quote it.) They must have a passport, yes. So you can be detained until you produce it, if BiB or Immigration so chooses. If you have no passport, the obvious follows. What else is new?

Keep carrying those copies and DL.

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, that's why Pat Pong, Soi Cowboy, and Nana Plaza don't really exist; who are you going to believe, ME, or your lying eyes? If you really believe in the event that your unfortunate enough to be in a bar that is raided and that you recollect that there is NO law stipulating that you are required to produce your passport or that there is a 24 hour period that you are entitled to produce, then Knock yourself out. I've been in those situations personally and anyone without a passport or carrying copies eventually cashed-out just to go home.

Edited February 15, 2014 by TimTang

[harrry]

you may be detained until it is presented. OK if you have some one to bring it straight from home. Not so good if you do not as you will be in a cell until someone does.

[whoisyourdaddy]

Technically all foreigners are required by law to have an official ID on their person at all times (just like Thai people). This means their passports. Copies of this or that page are not official IDs, though in certain instances may suffice, as may a Thai driving license.

The purpose is to not only identify people, but to see if their visa status is valid. Having photo copies of your picture page is therefore not sufficient. Even with a copy of the visa/entry stamp page it's still insufficient as they could be from another passport.

All that being said, I live in Thailand and do not carry my passport with me and in 15 years have yet to be asked to show it at any time. Just bad luck for these folks.

Standard police are not qualified nor trained to determine your visa status or validity .

I am not sure but I believe I read somewhere, if person does not have passport to produce on the spot, there is a time frame when they must show it.

Edited February 15, 2014 by whoisyourdaddy

[NanLaew]

I read the story on Pattaya One and the falangs seemed to have been in a dodgy bar. The bar in question had been on the police radar for sometime.

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No link to the OP's story and nothing I can find on Pattaya One website about this

Dodgy bar?

Links please?

OK, found it. It's in the "New Boss, New Crackdown for Pattaya Bars" story.

Thai's got busted for no ID at same venue at same time.

Non-story IMHO.

Edited February 15, 2014 by NanLaew

[i claudius]

Thai drivers license has passport number but in 3 years I have never been asked to produce a passport,

Means nothing, that was the passport number you had when you got your license. It now may be expired or even worse you are here on an overstay. Don't count on the police accepting your license as proof of your legality

Mine has always been accepted ,same with the banks ,in fact i am well known at my local banks so they do not even ask to see identification any longer, but in 23 years its rare to be asked ,only when driving ,never on the street.

[KittenKong]

I always thought only immigration officer's could demand to see your passport, police could only request a photo id?

I also think this is the case.

So a driving licence should be enough for the police.

[TimTang]

Technically all foreigners are required by law to have an official ID on their person at all times (just like Thai people). This means their passports. Copies of this or that page are not official IDs, though in certain instances may suffice, as may a Thai driving license.

The purpose is to not only identify people, but to see if their visa status is valid. Having photo copies of your picture page is therefore not sufficient. Even with a copy of the visa/entry stamp page it's still insufficient as they could be from another passport.

All that being said, I live in Thailand and do not carry my passport with me and in 15 years have yet to be asked to show it at any time. Just bad luck for these folks.

Standard police are not qualified nor trained to determine your visa status or validity .

I am not sure but I believe I read somewhere, if person does not have passport to produce on the spot, there is a time frame when they must show it.

Under normal situations you probably would be given time to produce. If your in a region or district where the local constabulary are less than scrupulous (which can vary if you live in Bangkok) the Boys-in-Brown will see it as an opportunity to extort some money out of you. If you're a lawyer you might be able to talk your way out of it, but they will usually intimidate you into cashing-out. That's why it's always a good idea to carry as little cash with you when ever possible. If you're packing a wad of 1000 baht notes in your wallet they'll probably turn up the heat to see how many units they can extract. It's totally illegal but then WHAT is legal in Thailand? Even the laws they create are rarely enforced.

Addendum:

Not all Thai police are like that. I've got to know many that were fine upstanding individuals that really took pride in their work and weren't out to rip people off. Most were in the Thonglor police station.

Edited February 15, 2014 by TimTang

[NanLaew]

You *are* required to present documentation of your immigrations status on demand, and for 99% of us that is our passport.

"Presenting" doesn't mean "presenting the passport that you must be carrying on you at all times."

This has been discussed ad nauseam here on TV. Look up the many previous threads. Nobody's ever been able to find any law saying that foreigners must carry their passports, specifically, at all times. Nobody's been fined or deported for not doing so. (If you think there is such a law, then quote it.) They must have a passport, yes. So you can be detained until you produce it, if BiB or Immigration so chooses. If you have no passport, the obvious follows. What else is new?

Keep carrying those copies and DL.

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, that's why Pat Pong, Soi Cowboy, and Nana Plaza don't really exist; who are you going to believe, ME, or your lying eyes? If you really believe in the event that your unfortunate enough to be in a bar that is raided and that you recollect that there is NO law stipulating that you are required to produce your passport or that there is a 24 hour period that you are entitled to produce, then Knock yourself out. I've been in those situations personally and anyone without a passport or carrying copies eventually cashed-out just to go home.

I was in the Beach Club in KL when they raided it around midnight a couple of years back; complete lock-down. Any foreigner that could produce their passport was allowed to leave. I didn't so was told to wait along with most other foreigners. They started a conga-line of the unfortunates where they were giving their personal details to a cop who was writing it all down in a book. Around 1AM, after they had shaken down all the young ladies in a separate room (real purpose of the raidf?) they decided that they had enough of this malarkey and just closed the book and they all left the premises. Having never joined the sign-up line, I was still at the bar so ordered another beer and carried on.

I don't think there's a published law in Malaysia that says you need to carry your passport at all times either. However, in special circumstances, such as pub raids and traffic checks, the law enforcement of pretty much any country can ask for it and depending on the situation at hand, you are either allowed to go get it, show it later at the police station... or it all gets forgotten.

[TimTang]

You *are* required to present documentation of your immigrations status on demand, and for 99% of us that is our passport.

"Presenting" doesn't mean "presenting the passport that you must be carrying on you at all times."

This has been discussed ad nauseam here on TV. Look up the many previous threads. Nobody's ever been able to find any law saying that foreigners must carry their passports, specifically, at all times. Nobody's been fined or deported for not doing so. (If you think there is such a law, then quote it.) They must have a passport, yes. So you can be detained until you produce it, if BiB or Immigration so chooses. If you have no passport, the obvious follows. What else is new?

Keep carrying those copies and DL.

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, that's why Pat Pong, Soi Cowboy, and Nana Plaza don't really exist; who are you going to believe, ME, or your lying eyes? If you really believe in the event that your unfortunate enough to be in a bar that is raided and that you recollect that there is NO law stipulating that you are required to produce your passport or that there is a 24 hour period that you are entitled to produce, then Knock yourself out. I've been in those situations personally and anyone without a passport or carrying copies eventually cashed-out just to go home.

I was in the Beach Club in KL when they raided it around midnight a couple of years back; complete lock-down. Any foreigner that could produce their passport was allowed to leave. I didn't so was told to wait along with most other foreigners. They started a conga-line of the unfortunates where they were giving their personal details to a cop who was writing it all down in a book. Around 1AM, after they had shaken down all the young ladies in a separate room (real purpose of the raidf?) they decided that they had enough of this malarkey and just closed the book and they all left the premises. Having never joined the sign-up line, I was still at the bar so ordered another beer and carried on.

I don't think there's a published law in Malaysia that says you need to carry your passport at all times either. However, in special circumstances, such as pub raids and traffic checks, the law enforcement of pretty much any country can ask for it and depending on the situation at hand, you are either allowed to go get it, show it later at the police station... or it all gets forgotten.

Good for you that you got out of that tight situation. It's true that in such a situation quoting a law that you read in the Lonely Planet probably won't save you. The laws of the land become very blurry when the Police come in with an agenda. It's unlikely that the Police can actually read much less are versed in the various laws that they've been hired to uphold.

I lived in KL for about a year and the Beach Club was a great bar. I'm surprised they hit it. I guess I was lucky because I never carried my passport in KL, so I guess I would have been in the conga-line as well.

Edited February 15, 2014 by TimTang

[harrry]

What is required here is Identification which in the case of a Thai is the ID card and a copy is not accepted. In the case of a foreigner the Passport is required and again a copy may not be enough. THais are held until someone brings a card, They are not allowed to go home and get one. Sometimes here a foreigner may be taken to his hotel to get his passport but this does not have to happen.

Usually you get asked for an ID in a situation such as the person inKL where a bar or place is raided for a spot check.

Nowdays once they get the passport they often ask immigration to check the immigration status too.

[TimTang]

What is required here is Identification which in the case of a Thai is the ID card and a copy is not accepted. In the case of a foreigner the Passport is required and again a copy may not be enough. THais are held until someone brings a card, They are not allowed to go home and get one. Sometimes here a foreigner may be taken to his hotel to get his passport but this does not have to happen.

Usually you get asked for an ID in a situation such as the person inKL where a bar or place is raided for a spot check.

Nowdays once they get the passport they often ask immigration to check the immigration status too.

That's pretty accurate. Even with your passport the police don't know enough to decipher your visa to determine if you're ligit. Normally they'll just wave you by because they can't be bothered to actually study your visa to confirm that it's up to date because you're an anomaly; they're not looking for people WITH passports, they're looking for those WITHOUT.

Edited February 15, 2014 by TimTang

[JSixpack]

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, that's why Pat Pong, Soi Cowboy, and Nana Plaza don't really exist;

Illegal under certain circumstances, and at least one of the circumstances, "promiscuous," isn't defined. It's more complicated than you know. Pat Pong, Soi Cowboy, and Nana Plaza aren't in violation of the law. Even if they were, the fines would be small. So you don't really know what you're talking about on this point as well.

who are you going to believe, ME, or your lying eyes?

YOU?

No, the law that you haven't quoted after asked. Nor have you given any evidence of fines, judgments, or deportations--because you can't. BTW, a police bribe for sake of greater convenience isn't a fine.

So, merely TV hot air and bluster.

If you really believe in the event that your unfortunate enough to be in a bar that is raided and that you recollect that there is NO law stipulating that you are required to produce your passport or that there is a 24 hour period that you are entitled to produce, then Knock yourself out. I've been in those situations personally and anyone without a passport or carrying copies eventually cashed-out just to go home.

You just can't grasp the point. Nobody said you don't have to produce a passport. In fact, if you read my post, I said just the opposite. In the raid mentioned in the OP only 4 foreigners were "arrested." ALL the others were carrying their passports? No.

And now you're conceding "or carrying copies," which is exactly what I said. You're just appearing to disagree while unconsciously agreeing. Duh.

As for your alleged "arrests," you offer no documented details on the specific cases and you don't know the specific reasons, the real reasons, they "cashed out," IF they did. Mere hearsay.

How to Train Your Mind to Think Critically and Form Your Own Opinions

Next.

Edited February 15, 2014 by JSixpack

[TimTang]

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, that's why Pat Pong, Soi Cowboy, and Nana Plaza don't really exist;

Illegal under certain circumstances, and at least one of the circumstances, "promiscuous," isn't defined. It's more complicated than you know. Pat Pong, Soi Cowboy, and Nana Plaza aren't in violation of the law. Even if they were, the fines would be small. So you don't really know what you're talking about on this point as well.

who are you going to believe, ME, or your lying eyes?

YOU?

No, the law that you haven't quoted after asked. Nor have you given any evidence of fines, judgments, or deportations--because you can't. BTW, a police bribe for sake of greater convenience isn't a fine.

So, merely TV hot air and bluster.

If you really believe in the event that your unfortunate enough to be in a bar that is raided and that you recollect that there is NO law stipulating that you are required to produce your passport or that there is a 24 hour period that you are entitled to produce, then Knock yourself out. I've been in those situations personally and anyone without a passport or carrying copies eventually cashed-out just to go home.

You just can't grasp the point. Nobody said you don't have to produce a passport. In fact, if you read my post, I said just the opposite.

And now you're conceding "or carrying copies," which is exactly what I said. You're just appearing to disagree while unconsciously agreeing. Duh.

As for your alleged "arrests," you offer no documented details on the specific cases and you don't know the specific reasons, the real reasons, they "cashed out," IF they did. Mere hearsay.

How to Train Your Mind to Think Critically and Form Your Own Opinions

Next.

I stand corrected. I know when I'm beat. So everyone ignore everything I've posted because JSixpack has called me out and he is much more informed than I am. I humbly apologize if I've lead anyone astray due to my naive observations and presumptions. I'm just a simple person not a genius so I'll be taking a course on How to Train Your Mind to Think Critically and Form Your Own Opinions and I promise you I'll be back as a much better person. It's the least I can do to correct my obvious fallibility. I have JSixpack to thank, The grand master of time-space-and-dimension.

[ttthailand]

Be real ! Everyone knows that they make it up as they go.... Law or no law they will do what ever they want.... Pay now or wait your chance to go to court ( in monkey house). Welcome to Thailand.

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[KhunBENQ]

Non-story IMHO.

Exactly my thought.

A simple sentence in a thin story (from the quality news organ P1) without details/follow up.

Of course they will be "arrested" (not free to walk away) before they can present some form of ID.

Guess the guys got a free ride to their hotel/appartement to find their passports.

Also I fight the argument that police is not able to check your visa status from the passport.

These were not Nakhon Nowhere traffic cops, but a group from Pattaya police who deal with foreigners everyday.

The receptionist at my favourite (simple) hotel in Pattaya is able to check my passport and "admitted until" and transfer information to her registration system,

So if there is group raiding discos or clubs in Pattaya then there will be a least one person with similar capabilites (able to find stamps from another Thai entity).

Must admit: I have never been asked for ID on the street (just drivers permit at road checkpoints).

Nevertheless I carry copies of the relevant passport pages and a copy from my yellow housebook.

When staying at a hotel, always a business card from the place.

Edited February 15, 2014 by KhunBENQ

[brewsterbudgen]

I stand corrected. I know when I'm beat. So everyone ignore everything I've posted because JSixpack has called me out and he is much more informed than I am. I humbly apologize if I've lead anyone astray due to my naive observations and presumptions. I'm just a simple person not a genius so I'll be taking a course on How to Train Your Mind to Think Critically and Form Your Own Opinions and I promise you I'll be back as a much better person. It's the least I can do to correct my obvious fallibility. I have JSixpack to thank, The grand master of time-space-and-dimension.

I wouldn't worry about it. The misconception that "prostitution is illegal in Thailand" is fairly common and JSixpack was just setting the record straight for the benefit of other posters and not just having a dig at you. I think.

Edited February 15, 2014 by brewsterbudgen

[ttthailand]

Law or no law they will do what ever they want....

No.

Pay now or wait your chance to go to court ( in monkey house).

You'd have to be charged w/ a crime under the law to go to court. In this case, quote the law and tell us the crime under that law. No? Didn't think so.

Enough w/ the silly farang victimism and spreading of paranoia.

Next troll.

I have been here 19 years and have lived in 3 cities so don't even suggest I not know how the system works. If you live in Thailand you must stay in the house under the sheets to not know how it works here. There are laws but they don't mean sh-t. The BIB will do how they like and other departments operate likewise .... I know from experience ! Just walk down Soi Cowboy or down the side walks in Bkk to see laws not enforced. Drive your car around town at night and see how laws are invented. Get into an accident and see who is at fault ..... They do what they want !

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