Foreigners Arrested for Not Carrying Passport

[OMGImInPattaya]

Law or no law they will do what ever they want....

No.

Pay now or wait your chance to go to court ( in monkey house).

You'd have to be charged w/ a crime under the law to go to court. In this case, quote the law and tell us the crime under that law. No? Didn't think so.

Enough w/ the silly farang victimism and spreading of paranoia.

Next troll.

I have been here 19 years and have lived in 3 cities so don't even suggest I not know how the system works. If you live in Thailand you must stay in the house under the sheets to not know how it works here. There are laws but they don't mean sh-t. The BIB will do how they like and other departments operate likewise .... I know from experience ! Just walk down Soi Cowboy or down the side walks in Bkk to see laws not enforced. Drive your car around town at night and see how laws are invented. Get into an accident and see who is at fault ..... They do what they want !

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I like how loosely laws are interpreted or enforced in Thailand. One example I take advantage frequently is the one about stopping at red lights until they turn green again. After midnite, at least in pattaya, this becomes mearly a suggestion. Many a time I'll return from the city center using Central or North Pattaya roads and only have to slow down on reds.

[JSixpack]

I have been here 19 years and have lived in 3 cities so don't even suggest I not know how the system works.

I'm suggesting just that, pal. A hammer always sees just a nail wherever it travels, right? So our forum is full of old cynical doomsayin' geezers, hating Thailand, who only see what they want to see and posture as know-it-alls.

In your case you've managed to ignore ALL the cases where farangs were treated quite fairly by the police and the courts. I'm not going to bother spoonfeeding you cases--every one of which you'll argue against or claim is a lie--but you can find many here on the forum, including examples of vehicle accidents. I was once involved in a case against a Thai myself. Police were extremely fair and helpful and I won a total victory. Great justice was done! Sorry to ruin your day.

Now, nobody claims it's a perfect system. It isn't the same as back home--where miscarriages happen too. But it's not all just tea money as the simpletons here want to claim.

Quoting some extreme exception by rogue cops doesn't make your case, either. Of course there are some. And there are the occasional tea money requests--which you could refuse and probably win if you didn't mind delay and bother. But the OP doesn't suggest that particular problem.

Our difference is that unlike yourself I have fair and balanced view of the situation so I don't spout nonsense.

Just walk down Soi Cowboy or down the side walks in Bkk to see laws not enforced.

Not enforcing laws, or seemingly in an arbitrary fashion, a different issue from the OP and the claim here that some imaginary law was enforced against 4 farangs who weren't carrying their passports. Try to focus.

Drive your car around town at night and see how laws are invented. Get into an accident and see who is at fault ..... They do what they want !

No they don't. I've driven around our glorious cesspool for many years at all hours, too.

Edited February 15, 2014 by JSixpack

[chiang mai]

Law or no law they will do what ever they want....

No.

Pay now or wait your chance to go to court ( in monkey house).

You'd have to be charged w/ a crime under the law to go to court. In this case, quote the law and tell us the crime under that law. No? Didn't think so.

Enough w/ the silly farang victimism and spreading of paranoia.

Next troll.

I have been here 19 years and have lived in 3 cities so don't even suggest I not know how the system works. If you live in Thailand you must stay in the house under the sheets to not know how it works here. There are laws but they don't mean sh-t. The BIB will do how they like and other departments operate likewise .... I know from experience ! Just walk down Soi Cowboy or down the side walks in Bkk to see laws not enforced. Drive your car around town at night and see how laws are invented. Get into an accident and see who is at fault ..... They do what they want !

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Rubbish, I'll be surprised to learn that you've actually only lived here for more than one year with that sort of knowledge and insight.

[watcharacters]

you may be detained until it is presented. OK if you have some one to bring it straight from home. Not so good if you do not as you will be in a cell until someone does.

.

Scary.

[LennyW]

you may be detained until it is presented. OK if you have some one to bring it straight from home. Not so good if you do not as you will be in a cell until someone does.

.

Scary.

Would be if it was true, thankfully it's not.

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[Rimmer]

Bickering posts leading to a personal attack removed. Enough already!

[uptheos]

I've yet to see a link to 'Thai Law' that states a passport must be carried at all times.

Maybe someone can oblige?

[dutchisaan]

If you are older than 14 years, you need to have a id card in Thailand. So we farangs will need our pasport, or a copy if they accept that. If you do not have any id on you than you ask for trouble.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[chiang mai]

I've yet to see a link to 'Thai Law' that states a passport must be carried at all times.

Maybe someone can oblige?

There is no such law, end of!

[Gonsalviz]

37 years. Never had a problem. Also I am white. That can make a difference.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I've yet to see a link to 'Thai Law' that states a passport must be carried at all times.

Maybe someone can oblige?

There is no such law, end of!

Whether it's a law, ministerial regulation, or immigration department regulation it's there. Like I said, I don't carry but if I was stopped and the coppers were so inclined, I'm sure I'd have to donate to the New Years party fund.

[maprao]

Thai drivers license has passport number but in 3 years I have never been asked to produce a passport,

Means nothing, that was the passport number you had when you got your license. It now may be expired or even worse you are here on an overstay. Don't count on the police accepting your license as proof of your legality

I check in to Hotels with a Thai driving lic never any issues

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[BB1950]

See this post:

This has been argued many times here on this forum. Here's an interesting post from a member:

http://www.thaivisa....-4#entry5452041

The Thai law is clear as mud. Which is how they like it. Open to interpretation. This link shows the laws translated as best we can:

http://www.thaivisa....92#entry5443292

And here's another listing of the laws:

Section 58 : Any alien who has no lawful document for entering the Kingdom under Section 12 (1); or has no Residence Certificate under this Act; and also has no identification in accordance with the Law on Alien registration, is considered to have entered into the Kingdom in violation to this Act.

Section 59 :The Director General, or the competent official deputized by Director General, shall have the authority to arrest and suppress any person violating this Act. They shall also have the authority to issue a subpoena, warrant of arrest or search, make arrest , search , or detain. They shall also have the authority to conduct inquiry into the offense against the provisions of this Act in the same manner as the inquiry official under the Criminal Procedure Code.

It's true most here have never been asked for their passport. It's also true many have been and have had to pay money or end up at the local police station if they didn't have their passport on them. And as we all know, the BiB like ways to make money. This is an easy one.

[thrilled]

I've never been asked.If I had I would only have A copy on me.If they put me in jail for that I will leave Thailand.

[craigt3365]

With all due respect, a post stating inaccurate information has been removed from view.

You can do whatever you want, but the law has been posted. It's crystal clear what's requited. Foreigners have been arrested for not carrying a passport. Thong Lor is a hot spot for checks and happens there on a regular basis. The consequences of not having your passport on you is typically an on the spot fine. It's rare, but it does happen.

[harrry]

Note both of these state that you can be detained which is what the original topic was. A few people may have to pay tea money but when this is used most of the time it is not tea money needed it is the pasport presented. I would add that the definition of arrest varies from country to country and in many any detention by a police officer etc is an arrest. Most here are quoting US law definition and Thai law derives from european law not US law.

[craigt3365]

Note both of these state that you can be detained which is what the original topic was. A few people may have to pay tea money but when this is used most of the time it is not tea money needed it is the pasport presented. I would add that the definition of arrest varies from country to country and in many any detention by a police officer etc is an arrest. Most here are quoting US law definition and Thai law derives from european law not US law.

Good point. Not sure I understand how foreign laws are applicable? This is specifically a Thai law.

I know in my travels, certain countries are very strict about having your passport on your person. Russia was one. Checks were routine and common. And the consequences there are the same here. Money out of your pocket resolves the problem.

[Andre0720]

Technically all foreigners are required by law to have an official ID on their person at all times (just like Thai people). This means their passports. Copies of this or that page are not official IDs, though in certain instances may suffice, as may a Thai driving license.

The purpose is to not only identify people, but to see if their visa status is valid. Having photo copies of your picture page is therefore not sufficient. Even with a copy of the visa/entry stamp page it's still insufficient as they could be from another passport.

All that being said, I live in Thailand and do not carry my passport with me and in 15 years have yet to be asked to show it at any time. Just bad luck for these folks.

Did you mention 'required by law'....

Checking passport must have little to do with the law...

But you already know that....

[kingstonkid]

Thai drivers license has passport number but in 3 years I have never been asked to produce a passport,

Means nothing, that was the passport number you had when you got your license. It now may be expired or even worse you are here on an overstay. Don't count on the police accepting your license as proof of your legality

I always thought only immigration officer's could demand to see your passport, police could only request a photo id?

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What do you think a passport is? Hint it has a photo and has your identification (passport#)

That being said i have travelled a great deal and the Cdn Gov't word was to carry a copy of your passport with you at all times. Keep the passport in a safe place that you and one other person you trust can get it.

I also carry other id cards but that is the main thing that I carry.

i agree clubbing or JJ market, walking St and such would not be good places to carry a real passport BUT if you run into trouble a copy of your passport at least tells them what embassy to call.

[unanimosity]

Thai drivers license has passport number but in 3 years I have never been asked to produce a passport,

Means nothing, that was the passport number you had when you got your license. It now may be expired or even worse you are here on an overstay. Don't count on the police accepting your license as proof of your legality

Perhaps, if you had your passport number, or any other number for that matter, scribbled on a 500 baht note it would be accepted and they might even give you a receipt so you could not be held accountable again for at least 24 hours..

[risky11]

I renewed my US passport last year and ordered the new "passport card." Has my photo and passport number on it, but it allows me to leave my passport book in the room safe. cool runnings...

[MobileContent]

Never carry my passport for 24 years in Thailand but have it in a safe in the hotel. If I do get arrested it will be a matter of time for someone at the hotel to open the safe and bring the passport over to Immigration HQ or to the Police. Never happens however in 24 years.

[sirchai]

So then I can not leave my passport at an embassy to get a visa

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I'd assume that when going for a visa trip, you won't stay at a bar where many guys are using illegal substances.

[craigt3365]

I renewed my US passport last year and ordered the new "passport card." Has my photo and passport number on it, but it allows me to leave my passport book in the room safe. cool runnings...

It's not the passport number or picture they want. It's your visa showing you are legally allowed to be in the country.

Just because you haven't been asked for a passport in 24 years doesn't mean it won't happen, or hasn't happened to others. It does happen. As reported in this news article. Rare, but it can happen.

[SDM0712]

I don't know that specific law but just to be on the safe side when I'm working I have my passport and work permit with me. But when I'm out socially I just carry my Thai driving licence. It's not strictly relevant but even in the UK if the Police have reason to have an interest in a person, and that person has no ID, the police can arrest/detain them until their identity is proven, even though there is no legal requirement to carry ID in Blighty.

[djhotsox]

There can be a difference if it's the regular "BIB" Royal Thai Police or if it's Thai Immigrations Police asking for ID.

If you are in a random street stop by the BIB, they are usually satisified with any type of ID that verifies your identity. A drivers license (Thai or foreign), a photocopy of your passport photo page, etc.

And even more satisfied if you produce coloured paper with images of the current monarchy on it.

[nithisa78]

There is probably much more to it than what we got to read. If we guests as a whole were more appreciative of Thailand, less derogatory remarks . . . . 9 chances out of 10, things would smooth out. VIA the very laws of nature. In the near fifty years living and visiting S.E. Asia, Ho Chi Minh and his followers .... the only ones I ever had any trouble with. As they did also with me. That was long time ago. Forgive and forget. Stay sober. Help each other. Enjoy the day. TGFL

[puyaidon]

I have to thank

Langsuan Man

I read his response and checked my driver's license. It has my old passport number and not the new one. Anyone have any ideas if the Land Transport Office will replace a license just because of a new passport? I would be interested to hear someone's response.

[axact]

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, that's why Pat Pong, Soi Cowboy, and Nana Plaza don't really exist;

Illegal under certain circumstances, and at least one of the circumstances, "promiscuous," isn't defined. It's more complicated than you know. Pat Pong, Soi Cowboy, and Nana Plaza aren't in violation of the law. Even if they were, the fines would be small. So you don't really know what you're talking about on this point as well.

who are you going to believe, ME, or your lying eyes?

YOU?

No, the law that you haven't quoted after asked. Nor have you given any evidence of fines, judgments, or deportations--because you can't. BTW, a police bribe for sake of greater convenience isn't a fine.

So, merely TV hot air and bluster.

If you really believe in the event that your unfortunate enough to be in a bar that is raided and that you recollect that there is NO law stipulating that you are required to produce your passport or that there is a 24 hour period that you are entitled to produce, then Knock yourself out. I've been in those situations personally and anyone without a passport or carrying copies eventually cashed-out just to go home.

You just can't grasp the point. Nobody said you don't have to produce a passport. In fact, if you read my post, I said just the opposite. In the raid mentioned in the OP only 4 foreigners were "arrested." ALL the others were carrying their passports? No.

And now you're conceding "or carrying copies," which is exactly what I said. You're just appearing to disagree while unconsciously agreeing. Duh.

As for your alleged "arrests," you offer no documented details on the specific cases and you don't know the specific reasons, the real reasons, they "cashed out," IF they did. Mere hearsay.

How to Train Your Mind to Think Critically and Form Your Own Opinions

Next.

Thaivisa, the HUB of hearsay

[skatewash]

I renewed my US passport last year and ordered the new "passport card." Has my photo and passport number on it, but it allows me to leave my passport book in the room safe. cool runnings...

Risky,

I too ordered the new US "passport card," thinking it would be easier to carry it than the bulky passport. I understood it was only legally accepted in Canda and Mexico, but thought that since it was issued by the US government it might be useful to carry here as well. However, in my experience there's no connection between one's passport and the passport card. I specifically looked for my passport number on the passport card and was unable to find it. That is, the passport number in the passport differs from the one on the passport card. Is this true in your case as well? In other words, if I were carrying my passport card (rather than my passport) and the police wanted to run the number in whatever databases they have it wouldn't return any of my information. I'm not sorry I got it, didn't cost that much, but it didn't really do what I thought it might do for me.

So, I keep my passport card in my safe at home. I do carry copies of my passport (enough to demonstrate identity and valid immigration status), but rarely actually have my passport on me unless I'm going to the airport or bank (i.e., places where I might reasonably asked to provide identification). I always carry my Thai Driver's License with we as well.