Ministry to try homeopathy in Sing Buri to fight dengue

[brit1984]

A couple weeks early for the April fools day article. Astounding lack of medical knowlege from the "public health ministry", Of all the quack therapies homeopathy is the best tested and soundly debunked crock of superstitious garbage available. Pathetic.

The queen of England obviously disagrees with you.

the queen's belief in homeopathy is no more meaningful than my 3-year old daughter's belief in santa

[brit1984]

A couple weeks early for the April fools day article. Astounding lack of medical knowlege from the "public health ministry", Of all the quack therapies homeopathy is the best tested and soundly debunked crock of superstitious garbage available. Pathetic.

Daoyai, I would be interested in hearing your reasons for this rather childish and wholly uninformed condemnation of an important branch of medicine.

Homeopathy is most certainly NOT any kind of "quack" medicine in countries where practitioners are first qualified MD and then go on to study homeopathic medicine for a further 3 years in addition to the 5 years in Medical school then 2 or 3 years as an intern.

Silly and ignorant comments like yours usually stem from - well - ignorance.

The Pharmaceutical Industry is currently (and rather desperately) trying to collar the homeopathic medicines - so that people, perhaps like you, will happily pay ten times the price for the same.

Recommendation. Wise up, Grow up or .....well I'm sure you can guess.

please feel free to provide a link to 1 peer-reviewed academic paper that provides evidence of medical benefits (beyond placebo effect) of homeopathic treatments, and you might be taken seriously

[thepool]

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I really hope that this is not true.

Dengue is a serious disease which if "treated" with sugar pills and "magic" water will result in more deaths.

And yet, according to the article, there were less deaths.

Pleased to note your naive belief in the "article" now produce the scientific, peer reviewed, published evidence for the claim.

[geriatrickid]

Unfortunately, this has sidetracked into a discussion of homeopathic activities, when the focus should be on whether or not the proposed administration of Eupatorium herbal pills dissolved in children's drinking water is appropriate. Here's what I do know;

1. There is no empirical evidence to support the use of the product. There have been no published peer reviewed clinical trials. It is absolutely wrong to administer a product to children without knowing what the adverse reactions will be, or the actual benefits.

2. It is contrary to every principle of science and even homeopathic care to use the product as prophylaxis as no one has ever even said it would offer a benefit.

3. It will be an unethical act to administer the product without the informed consent of the subject. If there is no discussion and an allowance to opt out of the ingestion of the product, it violates the medical community's respective codes of ethics. If this is an "experiment", then it is subject to sanction as it will break every guideline that governs human clinical trials.

4. Thailand wants to position itself as a medical care hub. This proposal will not help that goal. Thailand joins countries such as South Africa where the minister of health proposed a cure all of beet root for HIV patients. South Africa's health ministry was ridiculed and the minister resigned. In the case of Thailand, it is a local initiative and not reflective of the ministry's position on preventative health care. Hopefully, there is intervention and the folks proposing this are moved to inactive posts or given more time to protest on behalf of the PDRC,

[brit1984]

I can't believe the amazingly stupid comments posted above... Does any of you, and i mean ANY OF YOU - ever studied of be healed with Homeopathy? And i don't mean to have take once or twice homeopathy pills but REALLY studied it during years and years? Obviously not, because if you did it like i did during the last thirty years you'll know that homeopathy is pure genius, and even a medicine closer to quanta physics than regular medicine as we know it. It's about time that homeopathy is introduced in Thailand as not only it can heal Dengue but also a lot of other diseases or problems more simple like the heat intolerance. And don't believe any of the supposed scientists telling you that homeopathy is bullshit it's their analysis which is. Believe me these guys NEVER tried homeopathy even once in their life! And by the way, Acupuncture is also a great medicine and it's a medicine at least 2000 years old, it was not invented yesterday.

What i can admit is someone saying "i'm sorry but from all what i've studied i can't see how Homeopathy can work". THAT would be fair, and objective. Because this is where all the problem is: they don't understand why it works because homeopathy seems to go against all known scientific current knowledge. Now, mark my words, folks: Homeopathy is so ahead of anything that science knows ( so far ) that when they'll find finally why it works it will revolutionize all others theories.

Nuff said'

There is a lot of ignorance out there, Bagheera. Can't really blame people, after being brainwashed by the media for so many years.

I was very skeptical about mixing drops of Citric Acid and Sodium Chlorite, until I actually did it myself, after hearing all the great claims. My buddy claimed, it cured his Dengue Fever (which he was properly diagnosed with, in less than 48 hours, up here in Chiang Dao.

I took it for a bad Urinary Tract infection, that doctors prescribed three different, strong Antibiotics for, which I all took faithfully, as prescribed, but the infection came back every time, within a few days. I Took these drops of Citric Acid mixed with Sodium Chorite and the infection is gone. (I took no other medicines during that time). Not only that. I had a very bad sinus infections, for may years now. When I sneezed, it stunk really bad. That is gone, too. (My doctor in Canada tried to kill it with strong antibiotics, and it came back shortly after again). There are a couple of other things, it gotten rid off, that I don't want to talk about in this forum, but fact, for me at least, is, it works.

On the Net, they call is MMS...its a really stupid name and the guy who started it, makes so many extravagant and stupid claims, about other stuff now, that he does not sound believable. I had my doubts, until my friend convinced me to try it. I had nothing to loose, so I did and it worked for me, in more ways than one.

So to me, saying that something is "Snake Oil" salesmen type stuff, prior to investigation, just proves the ignorance of the posters.

Sad thing is, by being so arrogant, people may just be missing out on some good cures for stuff, that regular medicine still can't deal with effectively.

I know one thing...next time, I get seriously ill with a virus or bacteria, I will try those drops first, before letting the doctors give me antibiotics again.

Then again, to each his own. I don't really care what people do, but I do believe in informing people, when something works, so they can make up their own mind about it.

BTW, this stuff, you can make up yourself. A big batch for $2 or $3. I am not telling anyone to try it. I am only saying that it worked for me and like my buddy, I swear by it now.

Cheers

wow, that is some seriously interesting logic... do you also think last week's lottery tickers will come up again next week?...

[pistachios]

A couple weeks early for the April fools day article. Astounding lack of medical knowlege from the "public health ministry", Of all the quack therapies homeopathy is the best tested and soundly debunked crock of superstitious garbage available. Pathetic.

Daoyai, I would be interested in hearing your reasons for this rather childish and wholly uninformed condemnation of an important branch of medicine.

Homeopathy is most certainly NOT any kind of "quack" medicine in countries where practitioners are first qualified MD and then go on to study homeopathic medicine for a further 3 years in addition to the 5 years in Medical school then 2 or 3 years as an intern.

Silly and ignorant comments like yours usually stem from - well - ignorance.

The Pharmaceutical Industry is currently (and rather desperately) trying to collar the homeopathic medicines - so that people, perhaps like you, will happily pay ten times the price for the same.

Recommendation. Wise up, Grow up or .....well I'm sure you can guess.

I'd be interested to know where did you read that homeopathy was an important branch of medicine. It's an alternative medicine which has never been proven to be efficient, nothing more.

The fact that it is taught in some universities (I wonder what could they actually teach there) proves nothing and certainly comes from a need from the population. People believe in homeopathy (for some weird reasons), and want a homeopath practitioner. Instead of letting anyone doing it, which could be harmful (compared to unlicensed astrologists), some bogus degrees in homeopathy have been set up, so that people visit a doctor who is also an homeopath.

The doctors I know who prescribe homeopath remedies know it's just a placebo but do it anyway because placebo do work, and sometimes doing nothing is better than anything else, a fact rarely accepted by patients.

In fact, after a meta study showed that homeopathic remedies was inefficient, the order of doctors asked the french FDA to stop letting social security reimburse homeopathic treatment. Their answer : we know it's bullshit but if we stop, people will start asking for real drugs that are more expensive and could also be more harmful for the general public health.

Prescribing homeopathy for a cough or a skin rash is fine. Doing it for a potentially lethal disease like dengue fever is not only stupid, it is criminal.

Recommendation : read the wikipedia article about homeopathy. You'll soon realise how ridiculous you sound.

[thepool]

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Unfortunately, this has sidetracked into a discussion of homeopathic activities, when the focus should be on whether or not the proposed administration of Eupatorium herbal pills dissolved in children's drinking water is appropriate. Here's what I do know;

1. There is no empirical evidence to support the use of the product. There have been no published peer reviewed clinical trials. It is absolutely wrong to administer a product to children without knowing what the adverse reactions will be, or the actual benefits.

2. It is contrary to every principle of science and even homeopathic care to use the product as prophylaxis as no one has ever even said it would offer a benefit.

3. It will be an unethical act to administer the product without the informed consent of the subject. If there is no discussion and an allowance to opt out of the ingestion of the product, it violates the medical community's respective codes of ethics. If this is an "experiment", then it is subject to sanction as it will break every guideline that governs human clinical trials.

4. Thailand wants to position itself as a medical care hub. This proposal will not help that goal. Thailand joins countries such as South Africa where the minister of health proposed a cure all of beet root for HIV patients. South Africa's health ministry was ridiculed and the minister resigned. In the case of Thailand, it is a local initiative and not reflective of the ministry's position on preventative health care. Hopefully, there is intervention and the folks proposing this are moved to inactive posts or given more time to protest on behalf of the PDRC,

Much of what you say is correct and I have no wish to argue detail.

Children , of course will, because of a variety of reasons , suffer greatly from Dengue and many will die ( check the stats). However adults also suffer from dengue and without skilled care are also exposed to the risk of death.

This reported proposal of relying on homeopathy rather than skilled medical intervention is bordering on the criminal.

Thai doctors have world leading skill in the management of this potentially lethal disease,

An adult can of course choose to take a sugar pill in the sure belief that it will provide a "cure" a child should not be exposed to the very substantial risk of the sugar pill not "curing" or "treating" anything.

[brit1984]

So tell me is what inside the remedy? If you know it, don't hold back, because nobody in the world has been able to answer that question...

It's PURE ENERGY. What remain is the part of the "thought" of the product whether it is made from a mineral, animal or vegetal substance, but i doubt you will understand what it mean...

i think we can all understand that you have taken a few too many sugar pills

anyone who was listening in high-school physics class will also understand that there can be no such thing as PURE ENERGY in the same way that there can be no such thing as PURE LENGTH

although i doubt you will understand what i mean...

[GentlemanJim]

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So tell me is what inside the remedy? If you know it, don't hold back, because nobody in the world has been able to answer that question...

It's PURE ENERGY. What remain is the part of the "thought" of the product whether it is made from a mineral, animal or vegetal substance, but i doubt you will understand what it mean...

OK. Let's give this the benefit of the doubt. Stay with me on this one. There are no molecules of the Homeopathic substance left in the water but the water has a 'memory' of the substance that was present. In that case what about every other molecule of inorganic or organic matter that has ever been in the water, Indeed what about all the other inorganic and organic molecules that are already in the water. There are trillions of molecules in a glass of water and many trillions of molecules of other substances that have been in the water and are no longer there. We are talking of dilution rates more than a drop in the global ocean literally, all water has at one time (many times) been a part of that ocean, so must have molecular and atomic memory of everything since the world was formed (I assume this memory cannot have a time limit as time at an atomic level is meaningless, so the memory must last forever)

Scientists have calculated that everytime you have a glass of water, one molecule of that water will have passed through the bladder of Oliver Cromwell, or Henry VIII or Genghis Khan, such is the power of dilution (there will be molecules in the water that have passed through the bladder of every human that has ever lived on the planet prior to 300 yrs ago - the time calculated for molecular and atomic dilution/dispertion of a human across the world). The water will for sure have come into contact with every single substance that is used in every single different Homeopathic remedy at a molecular level, so the claim about taking the 'wrong medicine' is not valid because every remedy would have 'memory' of molecules or atoms of every element in the periodic table and every molecule that science is aware of that has ever existed. If there are 20 000 Homeopathic remedies then in one glass of water there will be the 'memory of every single molecule of every single remedy already. Do you follow that very logical and certain conclusion?

That leads us to the fact that as every Homeopathic remedy must be the same at ultra molecular dilutions then the cure (if there is one) is something else. I am all for any work and research that could study just how the mind can cure the body. I am convinced that the power of the mind can seriously improve or deteriorate well being depending on how it is used. If that is Homeopathy then fine, but do not try and persuade us it is the specific 'memory' of a chemical or organic molecule that has been prepared in the water, because as I have already said, every glass of water must contain memory of every single substance known to man already, So simply pour yourself a glass of water or even a glass of distilled water as previous molecular memory must be there if that is how it works. That is a mathematical certainty. Logic, science and maths can really pee on your bonfire sometimes.

[thepool]

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So tell me is what inside the remedy? If you know it, don't hold back, because nobody in the world has been able to answer that question...

It's PURE ENERGY. What remain is the part of the "thought" of the product whether it is made from a mineral, animal or vegetal substance, but i doubt you will understand what it mean...

OK. Let's give this the benefit of the doubt. Stay with me on this one. There are no molecules of the Homeopathic substance left in the water but the water has a 'memory' of the substance that was present. In that case what about every other molecule of inorganic or organic matter that has ever been in the water, Indeed what about all the other inorganic and organic molecules that are already in the water. There are trillions of molecules in a glass of water and many trillions of molecules of other substances that have been in the water and are no longer there. We are talking of dilution rates more than a drop in the global ocean literally, all water has at one time (many times) been a part of that ocean, so must have molecular and atomic memory of everything since the world was formed (I assume this memory cannot have a time limit as time at an atomic level is meaningless, so the memory must last forever)

Scientists have calculated that everytime you have a glass of water, one molecule of that water will have passed through the bladder of Oliver Cromwell, or Henry VIII or Genghis Khan, such is the power of dilution (there will be molecules in the water that have passed through the bladder of every human that has ever lived on the planet prior to 300 yrs ago - the time calculated for molecular and atomic dilution/dispertion of a human across the world). The water will for sure have come into contact with every single substance that is used in every single different Homeopathic remedy at a molecular level, so the claim about taking the 'wrong medicine' is not valid because every remedy would have 'memory' of molecules or atoms of every element in the periodic table and every molecule that science is aware of that has ever existed. If there are 20 000 Homeopathic remedies then in one glass of water there will be the 'memory of every single molecule of every single remedy already. Do you follow that very logical and certain conclusion?

That leads us to the fact that as every Homeopathic remedy must be the same at ultra molecular dilutions then the cure (if there is one) is something else. I am all for any work and research that could study just how the mind can cure the body. I am convinced that the power of the mind can seriously improve or deteriorate well being depending on how it is used. If that is Homeopathy then fine, but do not try and persuade us it is the specific 'memory' of a chemical or organic molecule that has been prepared in the water, because as I have already said, every glass of water must contain memory of every single substance known to man already, So simply pour yourself a glass of water or even a glass of distilled water as previous molecular memory must be there if that is how it works. That is a mathematical certainty. Logic, science and maths can really pee on your bonfire sometimes.

Wonderful rebuttal !

I am

[dickyknee]

There are trillions of molecules in a glass of water

um, massive orders of magnitude out.

molar mass of water is about 18g.

1 mole is about 6.022x10^23 molecules.

1L of water is about 1kg

1 glass of water is about 250mL.

250/18=13.9mole= 13.9x6.022X10^23molecules

=8.364x10^24 molecules

wow, thats a lot of molecules

[thepool]

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There are trillions of molecules in a glass of water

um, massive orders of magnitude out.

molar mass of water is about 18g.

1 mole is about 6.022x10^23 molecules.

1L of water is about 1kg

1 glass of water is about 250mL.

250/18=13.9mole= 13.9x6.022X10^23molecules

=8.364x10^24 molecules

wow, thats a lot of molecules

But how many molecules are "magic" and provide the "cure" ?

[dickyknee]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

There are trillions of molecules in a glass of water

um, massive orders of magnitude out.

molar mass of water is about 18g.

1 mole is about 6.022x10^23 molecules.

1L of water is about 1kg

1 glass of water is about 250mL.

250/18=13.9mole= 13.9x6.022X10^23molecules

=8.364x10^24 molecules

wow, thats a lot of molecules

But how many molecules are "magic" and provide the "cure" ?

all of them if i'm thirsty.

[GentlemanJim]

There are trillions of molecules in a glass of water

um, massive orders of magnitude out.

molar mass of water is about 18g.

1 mole is about 6.022x10^23 molecules.

1L of water is about 1kg

1 glass of water is about 250mL.

250/18=13.9mole= 13.9x6.022X10^23molecules

=8.364x10^24 molecules

wow, thats a lot of molecules

yep thank you for the calculation so that is about 8 trillion trillion i think. And every one of them with 'memory' would make one glass of water the homeopathic elixir of every ailment in the universe.

[dickyknee]

There are trillions of molecules in a glass of water

um, massive orders of magnitude out.

molar mass of water is about 18g.

1 mole is about 6.022x10^23 molecules.

1L of water is about 1kg

1 glass of water is about 250mL.

250/18=13.9mole= 13.9x6.022X10^23molecules

=8.364x10^24 molecules

wow, thats a lot of molecules

yep thank you for the calculation so that is about 8 trillion trillion i think. And every one of them with 'memory' would make one glass of water the homeopathic elixir of every ailment in the universe.

and if every molecule only held 1 bit of 'memory'... jeeze thats a lot of porn.

i should drink more water.

[DrTuner]

No no no, what you need is a shaman dancing around a fire, chanting spells. For the meager sum of 20M, I'll do it out of the goodness of my heart. Jingjing.

[partington]

I really hope that this is not true.

Dengue is a serious disease which if "treated" with sugar pills and "magic" water will result in more deaths.

And yet, according to the article, there were less deaths.

On the contrary, though the article and its contents were sheer buffoonery, there were no claims about fewer deaths.

Instead the ludicrous claim was made that the treatment was effective because 4 out of 4250 chidren in the "treated " group contracted dengue, and 7 out of 2856 of the "untreated" group contracted dengue.

Apart from the nonsensical groundlessness of a belief in homeopathy, it should be extremely obvious that if you divide any group of people into two, and then count how many times something happens to them, that number can differ in the two groups by sheer chance alone.

This will obviously happen for anything you measure in any two groups. I don't need to go in to why - for dengue for example the number of mosquito bites each group receives by chance will be a major determinant of contraction rate.

In every scientific paper ever published the conclusions are given a "p" value. This is the probability that the results happened by chance and not because the two groups are really different in outcome. It is generally accepted that a result is not meaningful unless its "p" value is less than 0.05, that is there is less than a 1 in 20 chance that the result is a fluke.

Putting the figures given in the article into a simple test of significance , the Chi squared test, gives a "p" value of 0.2! That is, there is a 1 in 5 chance that this result would happen by random variation alone, and not because the "treatment" was effective.

A "p" value of 0.2 is considered a negative, meaningless result, and would not be accepted as evidence of anything in any scientific discourse.

Statements and policies like the ones described in this article bring Thailand and its officials into extreme disrepute.

Edited March 16, 2014 by partington

[notmyself]

I really hope that this is not true.

Dengue is a serious disease which if "treated" with sugar pills and "magic" water will result in more deaths.

And yet, according to the article, there were less deaths.

On the contrary, though the article and its contents were sheer buffoonery, there were no claims about fewer deaths.

Instead the ludicrous claim was made that the treatment was effective because 4 out of 4250 chidren in the "treated " group contracted dengue, and 7 out of 2856 of the "untreated" group contracted dengue.

Apart from the nonsensical groundlessness of a belief in homeopathy, it should be extremely obvious that if you divide any group of people into two, and then count how many times something happens to them, that number can differ in the two groups by sheer chance alone.

This will obviously happen for anything you measure in any two groups. I don't need to go in to why - for dengue for example the number of mosquito bites each group receives by chance will be a major determinant of contraction rate.

In every scientific paper ever published the conclusions are given a "p" value. This is the probability that the results happened by chance and not because the two groups are really different in outcome. It is generally accepted that a result is not meaningful unless its "p" value is less than 0.05, that is there is less than a 1 in 20 chance that the result is a fluke.

Putting the figures given in the article into a simple test of significance , the Chi squared test, gives a "p" value of 0.2! That is, there is a 1 in 5 chance that this result would happen by random variation alone, and not because the "treatment" was effective.

A "p" value of 0.2 is considered a negative, meaningless result, and would not be accepted as evidence of anything in any scientific discourse.

Statements and policies like the ones described in this article bring Thailand and its officials into extreme disrepute.

[RandomSand]

I guess that means it must be true.

You obviously believe (within the reality you perceive) that people who believe in things (within the reality they perceive) which can't be proven (within the reality you perceive) are mistaken.

What you fail to recognise is that these people are perceiving and considering something that is outside your own definition of reality. Within this "space" (that you don't perceive); they recognise that changes can be made which function as prime causality into the ream of the ordinary (i.e into the reality you perceive).

Your constant failure - as evidenced in most of your posts - to recognise this fact and your constant calling-out of others using "evidence" (garnered within the reality you perceive) shows without any doubt that you have not considered how the people you mock are actually viewing the holistic manifestation of reality (the reality the perceive).

As an analogy I offer you this:

You know that it's possible to change the way one acts by firstly changing the way the mind functions. Imagine that there were some people who didn't recognise the malleability of consciousness and thought that thoughts arose as effects of the outside environment. We know this is not true. A human is capable of thinking independently of their environment. So you try to educate these people that their thoughts are prima-facie causallity of their actions --but they say "actions cause thoughts and you cannot prove otherwise". So you make an experiment to logically prove your theory and the people say "the results are not valid because the experiment itself might have caused the thoughts to occur".

It' very obvious to you that actions do not create thoughts and you feel these people are over-rational... etc etc, you get the idea.

The premise of "spirituality" generally goes like this: Subtle phenomena acts as casualty for grosser phenomena. Beware; "Subtle" does not mean the quantum strata of the universe. Quanta is actually regarded as the grossest phenomena!!

[Thai at Heart]

I really hope that this is not true.

Dengue is a serious disease which if "treated" with sugar pills and "magic" water will result in more deaths.

Exactly. Does the patient get a choice?,,or is it a matter of , choice A : 20k baht or homeopathy : 5k baht.....

[stoffel45]

Medical use

The common names for the plants are all based on the previous usage of one species, Eupatorium perfoliatum, as an herbal medicine. Despite its name, boneset is not used to treat broken bones[1], instead the common name apparently derives from the herb's use to treat dengue fever, which was also called breakbone fever because of the pain that it caused. The name thoroughwort also comes from Eupatorium perfoliatum, and refers to the perfoliate leaves, in which the stem appears to pierce the leaf (i.e. go through, note that in older usage "thorough" was not distinguished from "through", compare for example the word thoroughfare).

Boneset, although poisonous to humans and grazing livestock, has been used in folk medicine,^[6] for instance to excrete excess uric acid which causes gout. Caution is advised when using boneset, since it contains toxic compounds that can cause liver damage.^{[citation needed]} Side effects include muscular tremors, weakness, and constipation; overdoses may be deadly.

Lemon jelly, your post is taken direct, copied and pasted from Wikipedia's website on eupatorium.

[stoffel45]

The really sad thing here though, is the officialdom - supposedly professional - of a country like Thailand could be suckered into buying into this nonsense. It may still be a developing country (as clearly shown by its politicians) where huge numbers of the population still believe in supernatural forces, but it's so disappointing to note medical practitioners could possibly take this seriously.

On a further tragic note for Thailand - and something nobody on this topic seems to have pointed out yet - is the oxymoron of "kindergarten student volunteers".

TiT? Double-you tee eff!

France is worst in that matter. We have world class medicine practitioners, top researchers, one of the best life expectancy, yet 35% of french use and and believe in homeopathic remedies...

Doctors know it is no more than a placebo, but they still prescribe it to their patients thus breaking hippocratic oath. I have a doctor friend. His university even used to deliver an homeopathic diploma... who knows what they were teaching. Himself is not at all friendly to homeopathic concepts. He had a 9 year old patient soon after he started to practice. Totally and irremidatly deaf. Why? Her mother treated her multiple otisis with pure homeopathic remedies.

I had no idea that ignorance and ill-educated bias was so deep and widespread. It is very sad.

[stoffel45]

The really sad thing here though, is the officialdom - supposedly professional - of a country like Thailand could be suckered into buying into this nonsense. It may still be a developing country (as clearly shown by its politicians) where huge numbers of the population still believe in supernatural forces, but it's so disappointing to note medical practitioners could possibly take this seriously.

On a further tragic note for Thailand - and something nobody on this topic seems to have pointed out yet - is the oxymoron of "kindergarten student volunteers".

TiT? Double-you tee eff!

France is worst in that matter. We have world class medicine practitioners, top researchers, one of the best life expectancy, yet 35% of french use and and believe in homeopathic remedies...

Doctors know it is no more than a placebo, but they still prescribe it to their patients thus breaking hippocratic oath. I have a doctor friend. His university even used to deliver an homeopathic diploma... who knows what they were teaching. Himself is not at all friendly to homeopathic concepts. He had a 9 year old patient soon after he started to practice. Totally and irremidatly deaf. Why? Her mother treated her multiple otisis with pure homeopathic remedies.

Such unwitting ignorance. So little knowledge. A shame indeed.

[stoffel45]

In case anyone is ambivalent over homeopathy, please see this talk by James Randi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U

And this is the Public Health Minister? to give an idea of what homeopathy is like it would be like Plodprasop plan of using boat propellers to push the flood waters downstream, but using a tea spoon pushing the water up stream and the smaller the spoon the better. That is how ridiculous homeopathy is.

It's a ludicrous "medicine", a health official proposing it should be sacked, stat.

AlecG, your clear 'misunderstanding' of homeopathy is evident in this rather childish analogy.

Consider this.

If I took a tiny drop, in lay terms a half of a spoon of belladonna and gave it to you - you would most likely die.

If however, I took that same half a spoon of belladonna and mixed it with ten gallons of water - and if you had a heart condition and gave you 5 drops of that dilution - it could save your life.

A good and qualified doctor, like my wife and her colleagues, use a mix, roughly 80% Classic medicine and about 20% of homeopathic and fytotherapy to cure people.

In many countries one must be a fully qualified medical practitioner (she is a GP) with a lot of experience - before - one goes back to University to study homeopathy and Fytotherapy.

There ARE indeed many tragically ignorant people whose "evidence" about homoetherapy comes from some article in Readers Digest or a chat in a pub.

Big Pharma is the main source of disinformation - because they want the formulae.

My advice, well meant, is to find a practising homeopath - with full medical qualifications - and ask him to explain it to you. Then you can make a more informed attack on the discipline.

[brit1984]

@stoffel45

Please feel free to provide a link to a peer reviewed academic paper that gives evidence of the medical benefits of homeopathy (beyond placebo effect).

Otherwise stop talking nonsense, cheers

[brit1984]

I guess that means it must be true.

You obviously believe (within the reality you perceive) that people who believe in things (within the reality they perceive) which can't be proven (within the reality you perceive) are mistaken.

What you fail to recognise is that these people are perceiving and considering something that is outside your own definition of reality. Within this "space" (that you don't perceive); they recognise that changes can be made which function as prime causality into the ream of the ordinary (i.e into the reality you perceive).

Your constant failure - as evidenced in most of your posts - to recognise this fact and your constant calling-out of others using "evidence" (garnered within the reality you perceive) shows without any doubt that you have not considered how the people you mock are actually viewing the holistic manifestation of reality (the reality the perceive).

As an analogy I offer you this:

You know that it's possible to change the way one acts by firstly changing the way the mind functions. Imagine that there were some people who didn't recognise the malleability of consciousness and thought that thoughts arose as effects of the outside environment. We know this is not true. A human is capable of thinking independently of their environment. So you try to educate these people that their thoughts are prima-facie causallity of their actions --but they say "actions cause thoughts and you cannot prove otherwise". So you make an experiment to logically prove your theory and the people say "the results are not valid because the experiment itself might have caused the thoughts to occur".

It' very obvious to you that actions do not create thoughts and you feel these people are over-rational... etc etc, you get the idea.

The premise of "spirituality" generally goes like this: Subtle phenomena acts as casualty for grosser phenomena. Beware; "Subtle" does not mean the quantum strata of the universe. Quanta is actually regarded as the grossest phenomena!!

That is a very long-winded way to say "homeopathy is true because I say so".

[kamahele]

After having dengue last year, I'd be willing to give it a go. Sign me up. As for homeopathy, I think that when mixed with modern medicine, what's the harm? There is no vaccine for dengue so it isn't like they are trying to cheat people out of an alternate preventative measure. A lot of today's medicines were originally extracted from plants for example Aspirin and all of the opiates used to treat pain.

[AyG]

I don't think we should be too hard on people who believe in the efficacy of homeopathy. After all, people believe in all sorts of nonsense: Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, fairies at the bottom of the garden, that MSG is dangerous, that democracy is the best form of government, the reality of Noah's ark, that there's no such thing as evolution, the earth is only 6000 years or so old, dinosaurs and man coexisted, the destruction of the World Trade Center was an American/Jewish conspiracy, that the Protocol of the Elders of Zion is not a hoax, that Obama is a communist Moslem, that the moon landings were faked, astrology, UFOs, vaccines cause autism, psychics are genuine - not shysters, ghosts, miracles, the afterlife.

Most amazing is that 74% of Americans (a country where the majority of its inhabitants believe it's the greatest country on earth!) believe in an invisible sky fairy who meddles in their daily lives and demands adoration who they call "God".

So, people's belief that homoeopathy works just stands in the grand tradition of believing utter b*ll*cks . It's their right so to believe, and we should respect that.

[brit1984]

After having dengue last year, I'd be willing to give it a go. Sign me up. As for homeopathy, I think that when mixed with modern medicine, what's the harm? There is no vaccine for dengue so it isn't like they are trying to cheat people out of an alternate preventative measure. A lot of today's medicines were originally extracted from plants for example Aspirin and all of the opiates used to treat pain.

the time and money spent on quack medicine (which has no plausible benefit) could be spent on controlling the causes of dengue fever (which has very obvious and intuitive benefits)

[brit1984]

I don't think we should be too hard on people who believe in the efficacy of homeopathy. After all, people believe in all sorts of nonsense: Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, fairies at the bottom of the garden, that MSG is dangerous, that democracy is the best form of government, the reality of Noah's ark, that there's no such thing as evolution, the earth is only 6000 years or so old, dinosaurs and man coexisted, the destruction of the World Trade Center was an American/Jewish conspiracy, that the Protocol of the Elders of Zion is not a hoax, that Obama is a communist Moslem, that the moon landings were faked, astrology, UFOs, vaccines cause autism, psychics are genuine - not shysters, ghosts, miracles, the afterlife.

Most amazing is that 74% of Americans (a country where the majority of its inhabitants believe it's the greatest country on earth!) believe in an invisible sky fairy who meddles in their daily lives and demands adoration who they call "God".

So, people's belief that homoeopathy works just stands in the grand tradition of believing utter b*ll*cks . It's their right so to believe, and we should respect that.

you make a good point - most people in this world believe some ridiculous stuff (especially with regards to religions) and often it is difficult to disprove

likewise, it is difficult to disprove the belief that molecules in water have "memory" or "pure energy"...

but the belief that homeopathy has medical benefits is one step further as if it really did have benefits (regardless of how implausible the underlying logic) this could be shown through the evidence / results / conclusions of peer reviewed academic papers with empirical / statistical studies... but in fact scientific evidence shows this belief is just plain wrong

Edited March 17, 2014 by brit1984