Why is it so difficult to reach Nibbana?

[VincentRJ]

The mind is said to have a natural state. So you have this concept "I must let go"... and like you said as long as you have that concept then one concept still remains. However; what if you really were at the stage where that was the "final" concept? What would happen if you forgot about that concept? It would be gone wouldn't it ?

How can you forget a thought? A thought arises and disappears and becomes a memory. You think you have forgotten, but at some time in the future it pops into your mind again as a new thought. This is entirely beyond your control. That is why Buddha gave vipassana to the world.

The thought becomes a memory ?

Are you sure about that ?

Your statement presumes that dharmakaya is organised in a linear fashion like samsaric time and space.

What is it that thinks and where are these memories stored ?

But in your natural state of pure unbounded awareness, any thought that appears from emptiness is immediately consigned to the past because it is not possible to be totally in the unmanifest now if you are thinking. "No mind" is outside of space and time. So in terms of your true state, any thought is already a memory. It is already in the past. The thinking mind can never be in the present moment.

This could be a serious disadvantage if one encountered a tiger in the forest. Being able to think in the present and quickly make decisions in order to avoid being eaten would be my preferred option.

On the other hand, if I were to consider the tiger an illusion and pretend that I hadn't noticed it quietly approaching me, perhaps it wouldn't dare attack a prey that didn't appear afraid. I must admit I haven't tried it.

[trd]

Vincent, you have no idea what I am talking about because you have no interest in practice. All you have is a lot of useless concepts that will keep you in bondage. Listen to the beautiful simplicity of what Ajarn Chah says in the video about letting go.

[VincentRJ]

Vincent, you have no idea what I am talking about because you have no interest in practice. All you have is a lot of useless concepts that will keep you in bondage. Listen to the beautiful simplicity of what Ajarn Chah says in the video about letting go.

Trd,

I did listen to the Ajarn Chah video, and I do accept some of the major principles taught in Buddhism, which is why I'm here, expressing my views in this thread and hoping to understand more.

In my previous post I was addressing some of your statements about thoughts, in which you appear to create the impression that all thoughts are illusions.

Whilst I accept that the mind, the ego and the personality have no material form and can therefore meaningfully be described as 'illusory', a single thought does have a material basis in the form of a specific electrochemical reaction in the brain.

In other words, the mind, the ego and the personality is like a complex work of fiction that we have created about ourselves and others. As you know, works of fiction are not factual. Even works of non-fiction are often not nearly as factual as they pretend to be.

However, for purposes of survival, the direct perception that something external to ourselves exists, and is real, such as a tiger in the forest, stealthily sneaking up to us, has to be taken seriously.

It would be very dangerous to drive a car if one were to think that the other cars on the road were mere illusions.

[VincentRJ]

You cannot gain control of your passions, thoughts and emotions by using the same instrument that generates them. By gaining control what do you mean. Do you want to suppress your thoughts or do you want to change them in some way.

Trd,

On the surface that seems to be a reasonable and logical statement. However, have you considered the complexity of 'this instrument'?

The brain has many facets. Clearly, one wouldn't use that same part of the brain that was expressing almost uncontrollable fear at the sight of a tiger, for example, in order to control one's fear of the tiger. One would perhaps draw upon knowledge and concepts of Buddhism stored in other parts of the brain, in order to quell or tame one's fear. One might also draw upon other knowledge stored in the brain regarding practical advice on what to do when confronted by a wild tiger in the forest.

Such advice might be to shout and wave one's arms; to always look the tiger in the eye and never turn one's back to it; to pick up stones and throw them at the tiger, and so on.

Here are some scientific facts on the complexity of the brain.

"A typical healthy human brain contains about 200 billion nerve cells, or neurons, linked to one another via hundreds of trillions of tiny contacts called synapses. It is at these synapses that an electrical impulse traveling along one neuron is relayed to another, either enhancing or inhibiting the likelihood that the second nerve will fire an impulse of its own. One neuron may make as many as tens of thousands of synaptic contacts with other neurons, said Stephen Smith, PhD, professor of molecular and cellular physiology."

Here's another description with slightly different figures. With such complexity, one cannot be precise.

"The average human brain has about 100 billion neurons (or nerve cells) and an equal or slightly greater number of neuroglia (or glial cells) which serve to support and protect the neurons. Each neuron may be connected to up to 10,000 other neurons, passing signals to each other via as many as 1,000 trillion synaptic connections, equivalent by some estimates to a computer with a 1 trillion bit per second processor. Estimates of the human brain’s memory capacity vary wildly from 1 to 1,000 terabytes (for comparison, the 19 million volumes in the US Library of Congress represents about 10 terabytes of data)."

[trd]

How does this "knowledge" help to end your suffering?

[trd]

Let us deal with this tiger who wants to eat you. If you dream that a tiger wants to eat you, your dream body will run away from the dream tiger. The dream appears to be real. When you step out of dream consciousness into waking consciousness, you see that it was an illusion. Now if you are confronted with a tiger in the waking state, you will also run. Now step out of the waking state to your true transcendent state that sees sleep, dream and waking states as just illusory changing phenomena, a forever changing landscape rising out of and merging into silence.

[VincentRJ]

Now if you are confronted with a tiger in the waking state, you will also run.

Not recommended. Tigers can run faster. You will probably be eaten. What's recommended is applying a calmness of mind, which one might get from one's experience in meditation practices, and from one's understanding of Buddhist principles. But that in itself might not be enough if the tiger is hungry, in which case some non-Buddhist practices might be needed, such as throwing stones at the tiger.

[trd]

Now if you are confronted with a tiger in the waking state, you will also run.

Not recommended. Tigers can run faster. You will probably be eaten. What's recommended is applying a calmness of mind, which one might get from one's experience in meditation practices, and from one's understanding of Buddhist principles. But that in itself might not be enough if the tiger is hungry, in which case some non-Buddhist practices might be needed, such as throwing stones at the tiger.

You have entirely missed the point!

I ask you again. Please answer the question. How will your knowledge of neuroscience, or anything else for that matter, end your suffering?

[VincentRJ]

How does this "knowledge" help to end your suffering?

If you are already suffering, one should first determine whether the suffering is mainly psychological or mainly physical.

If your expectations have not been met; for example, you failed to get the job promotion you expected; your girlfriend no longer loves you; your uninsured house burned down; your financial investments crashed, etc etc, then such suffering is mainly psychological, and applying the principles of Buddhism should help to at least reduce such suffering and perhaps completely dispel it.

However, if one's suffering is mainly physical, such as the pain one might experience from an accident, or from some medical condition, or from an operation undertaken without anaesthetics, I think it might be better to avail oneself of the knowledge of modern pain-killing drugs and antibiotics.

Nevertheless, even with physical pain of that nature, applying Buddhist principle of 'not resisting' the pain, but trying to observe it dispassionately, should help. I believe there is often, perhaps always, a psychological component of pain.

I am now reminded of an aspect of the Buddhist concept of suffering that's always seemed relevant to me. When I first came across the story of Buddha many years ago, I was trekking across India as a back-packer, fresh out of school in the U.K.

I was amazed, as well as distraught, at the sight of so many poor, homeless people begging at the roadside, some of whom seemd very sick and, I felt, should have been in hospital. I remember thinking, if this is what parts of India are like in the 20th century, then how much worse it probably was during the lifetime of Buddha around 2,500 years ago.

I imagine if the average person from a modern, developed Western country could time travel and see first hand, in detail, the conditions that Gautama saw when he first stepped outside of his sheltered existence in his palace, then that modern person would also be traumatised and feel he should try to do something about it.

Or, to put it another way, if Gautama, instead of stepping outside his palace to view the life of ordinary folk who did not have the benefits of modern medicine, had stepped outside of his palace to view the life of ordinary people in modern day Sweden, or Switzerland, whether in the city or in the countryside, I don't think he would have undergone the personal crisis which set him on a path to find the solution to the end all suffering.

[trd]

So having recognised there is suffering, (it is often better to describe it in terms of discomfort or unease) what are YOU going to do to rid yourself of it?

[VincentRJ]

So having recognised there is suffering, (it is often better to describe it in terms of discomfort or unease) what are YOU going to do to rid yourself of it?

I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing, that is, living according to the Buddhist principles that make sense to me, whilst holding in suspension things mentioned in Buddhist scriptures that do not make sense to me (such as reincarnation, walking on water, stories of virgin birth and other miracles etc).

The Buddhist principles which I think are useful and valuable are described as The Middle Way, or Everything in Moderation. I consider the advice given in the Kalama Sutta very relevant to the modern person. I think one should also strive to gain control over emotions of greed, hatred, anger and desire etc. I have these pretty much under control, but I haven't completely eliminated them of course.

In general, I don't currently feel any significant degree of personal suffering, either physical or psychological. But I do feel a great sense of sadness whenever I see/hear news of what is happening in certain parts of the world; children abducted in Nigeria; the ongoing conflict in the Ukraine, Syria and Egypt and so on, and I feel that the message of Gautama Buddha is very relevant to the people involved in such conflicts, and to those who are experiencing real suffering, as opposed to my slight and insignificant suffering.

[trd]

I have nothing further to discuss with you, but I wish you the very best with your search Vincent.

[VincentRJ]

The very best with your search also, Trd. May you eventually find your true state of 'unmanifest now', if you haven't already found it.

[rockyysdt]

So having recognised there is suffering, (it is often better to describe it in terms of discomfort or unease) what are YOU going to do to rid yourself of it?

Hi T.

Vincent does pose some concerns which for the most part are substantial obstacles for people contemplating Buddhist practice.

Analyzing the 8 fold path a number of things come to mind.

1. If everyone chose to practice full time wouldn't this lead to mass starvation and world chaos?

2. Once having eliminated ego/thought/mind can one remain integrated in society and perform their specialty (doctor, dentist, farmer, teacher, builder, pilot, etc)?

3. If one enters the world of the present, how do they plan for the future & learn from the past in order to perform their role (parent, employee, etc)?

4. Having achieved awakening (ego extinguished) does the person live without thought, but reintroduce thought/mind when required to engage?

5. Although impermanent & conditioned doesn't this world require us to engage with it with mind in order to "play the game"?

6. Is Awakening for those without responsibilities (even if they are "impermanent & conditioned"), such as parenthood, care giver, partnership/marriage, employer etc)?

Edited May 9, 2014 by rockyysdt

[trd]

>1. If everyone chose to practice full time wouldn't this lead to mass starvation and world chaos?

Have you heard of mindfullness during walking and eating which as far as I know does not result in death. If you put aside an hour a day for meditation it will not lead to the collapse of civilisation. Sometimes you will even sleep.

You said in a recent post:

>In terms of completely eliminating thought, don't let this worry you.For you to achieve such a level in which you are able to live without thought may take years of dedicated practice on several levels if at all.

Practice would include:

Mindfulness (continually observing your body, thoughts, feelings, & the outside world) without attachment.

Sitting Meditation.

Living an ethical life within the precepts.>

So. I'm not really sure what you think with this new question.

>2. Once having eliminated ego/thought/mind can one remain integrated in society and perform their specialty (doctor, dentist, farmer, teacher, builder, pilot, etc)?

You asked me this question in Post 63. I replied in Post 65. (Last paragraph beginning - No, you will never be a zombie)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/714973-why-is-it-so-difficult-to-reach-nibbana/page-3

>3. If one enters the world of the present, how do they plan for the future & learn from the past in order to perform their role (parent, employee, etc)?

No one enters the world of the present because that is all there is. It is not possible to be in anything else but the present. The story of the mind continues. Your whole life has been a narrative of past, present and future. It is a question of identification. Do you identify with each individual wave or are you the value of the ocean. The base value of a ring is gold. The base value of a pot is clay. However, telling yourself that will not make it so. Practice results in a realisation that you are not a thing. You are beyond all things. When you dissolve into this silence, then you have peace of mind. It cannot be explained. It must be experienced. But you need to have some faith, even if that in itself is false. You need some faith at first to sustain you in the practice.

I never talk about belief, but only try and point the mind back to being. There is no rationality there. It is a bit like those Zen koans that ask what is the sound of one hand clapping. There is no answer to it. It is designed to force you to forget the mind for a second. It is a pointer to letting go. Most people think they are who they are because they are thinking thoughts. If there are no thoughts you do not cease to exist. It is not easy to disengage with this perception. The identification with the mind and body is so strong. Yet the means to disengage is simple.

>4. Having achieved awakening (ego extinguished) does the person live without thought, but reintroduce thought/mind when required to engage?

The mind engages when required. It is completely natural. You are analysing too much. The mind is much less active. It ceases its constant chatter. If you look in detail at what you actually need your mind for during the course of a day you will find it is doing far less in useful terms compared with the useless noise it generates. Going back though to your first point about mass starvation if you practised 24 hours a day, there is one point worth making. It is not regarding practice, but the so called egoless state. You cannot completely lose ego while in a human body because you would not function. You would lose all concerns about feeding yourself for instance which wouldn't benefit the body. So there must be some trace until the death of the body. There have been some documented cases of various Indian saints and sages who had to be force fed at some stage because they were in such bliss of samadhi that they ignored their basic needs.

>5. Although impermanent & conditioned doesn't this world require us to engage with it with mind in order to "play the game"?

Yes, play the game - and enjoy playing it. Life is wondrous.

>6. Is Awakening for those without responsibilities (even if they are "impermanent & conditioned"), such as parenthood, care giver, partnership/marriage, employer etc)?

Awakening is the destiny of all.

[ricklev]

I did it but there was nothing to be done. There was no path and there was no reaching.

Edited May 9, 2014 by ricklev

[VincentRJ]

"The mind engages when required. It is completely natural. You are analysing too much. The mind is much less active. It ceases its constant chatter. If you look in detail at what you actually need your mind for during the course of a day you will find it is doing far less in useful terms compared with the useless noise it generates. Going back though to your first point about mass starvation if you practised 24 hours a day, there is one point worth making. It is not regarding practice, but the so called egoless state. You cannot completely lose ego while in a human body because you would not function. You would lose all concerns about feeding yourself for instance which wouldn't benefit the body. So there must be some trace until the death of the body. There have been some documented cases of various Indian saints and sages who had to be force fed at some stage because they were in such bliss of samadhi that they ignored their basic needs."

Trd,

I think I should point out, for the sake of general clarity, that your statement above, which I've highlighted in bold, appears to concede to some extent most of the points raised by Rockysdt.

If one completely loses ego while in a human body, and as a result one loses all concern about feeding oneself, then surely one has also lost all, or most thoughts. Doesn't a feeling of hunger involve the thought, "I am hungry", or 'my body is hungry', or 'my tummy feels empty', or simply the practical thought, 'If I don't eat I will die'?

I agree that reducing the constant chatter of the mind by engaging in regular sessions of meditation should be beneficial for everyone, just as regular physical exercise is good for the health. However, is it not true that most things, when taken to extreme, can be harmful?

One might be surprised that even drinking too much water can be harmful. One can actually die through drinking too much water.

Once again, I think Buddhism has got this situation covered by its principle of The Middle Way, which can be interpreted as 'everything in moderation'.

All of our activities in the world require some degree of constant practice for us to be proficient and to maintain our skill. If one were to devote oneself full time, over a number of years, to ridding oneself of one's self, I think it would be difficult to then resume any regular job in society without retraining and relearning.

[trd]

>If one were to devote oneself full time, over a number of years, to ridding oneself of one's self, I think it would be difficult to then resume any regular job in society without retraining and relearning.<

??????????

I cannot engage with you on this level Vincent. This statement shows you have no idea what I am talking about. If you had any experiential knowledge at all, you would not have made this remark. As long as you pursue your path of "Buddhism Lite", you will just blow along like a leaf in the wind, going from one idea to the next and achieving nothing.

Get someone qualified to teach you how to meditate. Practise a couple of times a day for six months, then come back and talk to me. What do you think about that as a plan?

[VincentRJ]

>If one were to devote oneself full time, over a number of years, to ridding oneself of one's self, I think it would be difficult to then resume any regular job in society without retraining and relearning.<

??????????

I cannot engage with you on this level Vincent. This statement shows you have no idea what I am talking about. If you had any experiential knowledge at all, you would not have made this remark. As long as you pursue your path of "Buddhism Lite", you will just blow along like a leaf in the wind, going from one idea to the next and achieving nothing.

Get someone qualified to teach you how to meditate. Practise a couple of times a day for six months, then come back and talk to me. What do you think about that as a plan?

Trd,

I think I'm reasonably capable of observing my own thoughts, and understanding the guidelines on meditative techniques that are available in many books.

Fortunately, I do not suffer from any significant inner torment that might require me to seek help from either a psychiatrist, a guru, or any religion.

I'm interested in Buddhism to the extent that it is not a religion (more of a philosophy) and because it appears to be the source of some useful concepts, advice and techniques for achieving a more satisfying and fulfilling life.

I'm not a religious type of person. I don't believe in rituals, rites and ceremonies. In fact, I'm quite confident that I have long since eliminated the 3rd of the '10 Hindrances to Enlightenment', ie, attachment to rites, rituals, and ceremonies.

I'm also quite at ease with the notion that the personality and ego have no permanence and are essentially an illusion (the 1st Hindrance). I can see quite clearly that the ego is a fiction. Even our great English playwright, William Shakespeare, appears to have understood that.

All the world's a stage,

And all the men and women merely players;

They have their exits and their entrances,

And one man in his time plays many parts

As regards your opinion that I have no idea what you are talking about, that just doesn't make sense to me. Communication among people is only possible when each person has an idea of what the other person is saying. The idea or interpretation that one person might hold, of what the other really means, might often be wrong, in which case it's up to the other person to clarify his ideas. However, an idea must exist, rightly or wrongly, for any communication response to take place.

On the other hand, if your response to me had been written in the Thai language, which I don't understand, and you had ended your response with a statement in English to the effect, "Vincent, you have no idea what I am talking about, do you!".... then I would have had to agree with you.

[fabianfred]

What we have to realise is that the number of beings existing in the 31 realms of Samsara is incalculable. One example I read is when the Buddha bent and picked up some dirt on his fingernail and asked his companions which was greater, the Earth or the tiny amount of dirt, and then said that the number of beings in the human realm compared to the dirt whilst the whole Earth represented all beings in the four lower realms. Another compared thus... if you took all the human beings and stood them upon the head of a pin, then the surface of the Earth would be covered in beings in the higher realms.... but if you then took the beings in the higher realms and stood them upon the head of the pin, the surface would be covered in beings in the lower realms.

It is therefore virtually impossible that one day all beings will become enlightened and escape samsara.

That we are in a position to do so is extremely fortunate and we are in the tiniest minority of humans, let alone other beings, who have such a chance.

There comes a time, in each cycle, when humans are very long-lived, and also keep the five precepts almost without exception. Like all cycles this eventually deteriorates. Never mind practicing the Eightfold Path with a goal of escaping Samsara, if everyone kept the five precepts it would be like heaven upon earth.

People would still be able to live, but there would be almost no suffering.

[ricklev]

Gosh, some of you folks love Buddhism like it's a religion or something.

Take a sacrament like peyote or mescaline or ayahuasca and find out for yourself what it's all about. Seriously, said the jester.

Edited May 11, 2014 by ricklev

[rockyysdt]

What we have to realise is that the number of beings existing in the 31 realms of Samsara is incalculable. One example I read is when the Buddha bent and picked up some dirt on his fingernail and asked his companions which was greater, the Earth or the tiny amount of dirt, and then said that the number of beings in the human realm compared to the dirt whilst the whole Earth represented all beings in the four lower realms. Another compared thus... if you took all the human beings and stood them upon the head of a pin, then the surface of the Earth would be covered in beings in the higher realms.... but if you then took the beings in the higher realms and stood them upon the head of the pin, the surface would be covered in beings in the lower realms.

It is therefore virtually impossible that one day all beings will become enlightened and escape samsara.

That we are in a position to do so is extremely fortunate and we are in the tiniest minority of humans, let alone other beings, who have such a chance.

There comes a time, in each cycle, when humans are very long-lived, and also keep the five precepts almost without exception. Like all cycles this eventually deteriorates. Never mind practicing the Eightfold Path with a goal of escaping Samsara, if everyone kept the five precepts it would be like heaven upon earth.

People would still be able to live, but there would be almost no suffering.

Hi Fred.

I find most Buddhists fall into three main camps.

• Those who are religious, fully accepting relms of existence, deva & hell relms, re birth (reincarnation), many lives associated with each person, Nibhanna the place, soul (for want of a better name, but one can't get around a unique permanent unconditioned entity which connects the procession of re births & becomes awakened), and Mara the evil temptress and destroyer.
• Those who who don't accept such things and view Awakening as the highest order a living human can rise to in his/her lifetime, and
• Those who are open to all but attached to none.

If you are completely convinced in the picture you paint, what are you doing here?

If I had the conviction and certainty which you display I would not waste one millisecond.

If I was on the negative side of fifty, I'd understand that time is precious and there is not a moment to spare.

I'd know that most conditioned & impermanent adult beings have already made up their minds and if exposed to scripture which challenges their belief, they will only find material/argument to counter what others say.

I'd be including long hours of sitting as well as diligently developing my Mindfulness to the point where it would begin to influence and shape my reactions & interactions, with wisdom increasing exponentially.

Edited May 11, 2014 by rockyysdt

[dutchguest]

"The mind engages when required. It is completely natural. You are analysing too much. The mind is much less active. It ceases its constant chatter. If you look in detail at what you actually need your mind for during the course of a day you will find it is doing far less in useful terms compared with the useless noise it generates. Going back though to your first point about mass starvation if you practised 24 hours a day, there is one point worth making. It is not regarding practice, but the so called egoless state. You cannot completely lose ego while in a human body because you would not function. You would lose all concerns about feeding yourself for instance which wouldn't benefit the body. So there must be some trace until the death of the body. There have been some documented cases of various Indian saints and sages who had to be force fed at some stage because they were in such bliss of samadhi that they ignored their basic needs."

Trd,

I think I should point out, for the sake of general clarity, that your statement above, which I've highlighted in bold, appears to concede to some extent most of the points raised by Rockysdt.

If one completely loses ego while in a human body, and as a result one loses all concern about feeding oneself, then surely one has also lost all, or most thoughts. Doesn't a feeling of hunger involve the thought, "I am hungry", or 'my body is hungry', or 'my tummy feels empty', or simply the practical thought, 'If I don't eat I will die'?

I agree that reducing the constant chatter of the mind by engaging in regular sessions of meditation should be beneficial for everyone, just as regular physical exercise is good for the health. However, is it not true that most things, when taken to extreme, can be harmful?

One might be surprised that even drinking too much water can be harmful. One can actually die through drinking too much water.

Once again, I think Buddhism has got this situation covered by its principle of The Middle Way, which can be interpreted as 'everything in moderation'.

All of our activities in the world require some degree of constant practice for us to be proficient and to maintain our skill. If one were to devote oneself full time, over a number of years, to ridding oneself of one's self, I think it would be difficult to then resume any regular job in society without retraining and relearning.

I think we should make a distinction between our natural instincts and the ego. Animals and just born baby's have feelings of hunger and they don't need any linguistic rationalization or awareness to know what to do about it. According to some Buddhists enlightenment is nothing else then being able to eat when you are hungry and sleep when you are sleepy.

The ego is part of our social conditioning, which often learns us that we ought to eat at specific times and sleep at certain times. Here the alienation from our (Buddha)nature starts already. With wild animals you never see the overeating you see with humans, they keep their natural grace. We have grown out of touch with our own nature and eat when we are not really hungry and sometimes fast when we are hungry (which some saints teach and what the Buddha -after some harsh experiences- rejected as being equally wrong: the right way is the middle way).

So the ego is causing all the problems as it is overclouding, covering up our “true nature”, keeping us imprisoned in in an artificial world of social conventions, rationalizations, interpretations, conditionings etc., causing all kind of compulsive, unfree actions which we consider as our real needs and feelings, but which are nothing else then the words of our parents, teachers, of the books we read etc. This imprisoned life means we have forgotten ourself, do not remember ourself, are asleep in the words of Gurdjieff or the Buddha.

[fabianfred]

The ego is certainly the most difficult thing to destroy. A Sotapanna knows the reality of non-self but has not eliminated the ego. That is the final thing an Arahant does before attaining to that state.

Rocky... I am still here because I do not expect to practice diligently enough to attain Arahant in this lifetime, but would rather attain stream-entry, and then return to the human realm another seven lives to try and teach those who want to know about the truth.

( I have to chuckle sometimes when i see your posts Rocky... you like to slip in that word 'attached'...implying that anyone with differing views to you are attached to them... in a negative way...)

Edited May 11, 2014 by fabianfred

[ricklev]

There are also psilocyben and LSD to open the doors which are not doors.

And don't forget simple grace.

Pretty much everything I think I know about anything is just the trickster keeping me deluded and based in duality. And that's something I think I know.

Edited May 11, 2014 by ricklev

[VincentRJ]

What we have to realise is that the number of beings existing in the 31 realms of Samsara is incalculable.

Fabianfred,

It sounds like the number of beings existing in the 31 realms of Samsara might be similar to the number of neurons and synapses contained in the average human brain.

Never mind practicing the Eightfold Path with a goal of escaping Samsara, if everyone kept the five precepts it would be like heaven upon earth.

People would still be able to live, but there would be almost no suffering.

　

I tend to agree. Four of those 5 precepts are covered by the 10 Commandments of the Judeo/Christian Bible (ie. You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.)

What's interesting is that the 5th Buddhist precept of abstinence from intoxicating liquor, does not appear to be covered by the 10 Commandments, although there are many references elsewhere in the Bible to drunken behaviour, which is considered a sin, although perhaps a lesser sin than breaking any of the 10 Commandments.

However, I have no difficulty in appreciating the fact that, when one is progressing along the Eightfold Path, and the Tenfold and Twelvefold Paths, doing serious meditation with the aim of reaching Nibbana, then even a single glass of wine could noticeably cloud one's concentration or awareness, and is therefore something to be avoided.

On the other hand, for the Buddhist lay person who might not be aiming for the ultimate goal of Nibbana in this lifetime, the occasional glass of wine might fall within that principle of 'everything in moderation'. What do you think?

I believe there's some scientific evidence that a glass of red now and again can be beneficial for one's health.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_wine

[trd]

See how seamlessly one can go from the precepts to an appreciation of fine wines.

Samsara rocks!

[VincentRJ]

See how seamlessly one can go from the precepts to an appreciation of fine wines.

Samsara rocks!

Taking good care of one's health is important. One thing that has always disturbed me whenever I've considered trying the lifestyle of a Buddhist monk for a while in Thailand, is the prevalence of white rice. Eating just one meal a day can be healthy, but I'd like that one meal to be as wholesome as possible. It's a scientific fact that brown rice is more nutritious and better for the health than the processed white rice that is so prevalent in Thailand.

[VincentRJ]

See how seamlessly one can go from the precepts to an appreciation of fine wines.

Samsara rocks!

Taking good care of one's health is surely very important, and that includes eating nutritious and wholesome food. Whenever I've considered trying the lifestyle of a Buddhist monk in Thailand, I've been partly put off by the prevalence of white rice. I always try to avoid eating white rice because I believe it is a scientific fact that brown rice is better for one's health.

Living on one meal a day would be no problem, but rice is a major part of the diet in Thailand. I don't believe the Buddha would have eaten refined and processed white rice.

Oops! Double post. You can see I'm rather concerned about my good health.

Edited May 11, 2014 by VincentRJ

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See how seamlessly one can go from the precepts to an appreciation of fine wines.

Samsara rocks!

Taking good care of one's health is important. One thing that has always disturbed me whenever I've considered trying the lifestyle of a Buddhist monk for a while in Thailand, is the prevalence of white rice. Eating just one meal a day can be healthy, but I'd like that one meal to be as wholesome as possible. It's a scientific fact that brown rice is more nutritious and better for the health than the processed white rice that is so prevalent in Thailand.

A monk doesn't get to choose...he eats what he is given....and that is only enough to sustain...not for pleasure..

Health is improved by not over eating.... and by meditation. A monk in the forest uses the dhamma to cure sickness. He either gets better or dies....simple. Dying during practice is preferable to a long useless life.

See how seamlessly one can go from the precepts to an appreciation of fine wines.

Samsara rocks!

Sure, a glass of wine with a meal is OK.... but it is the ability to stop and say 'that is enough' which alcohol weakens. On a very hot day there is nothing more thirst quenching than a glass of shandy ( half beer, half lemonade) ...but I never have more than one.