Final crackdown for border runners - New strict Immigration regulation in force from today

[khunron13]

Hopefully this crackdown will be like many others, short lived. A lot of people legitimately working, studying, living, or touring here, do border runs occasionally between visas. They should be able to differentiate between someone doing it a few times, and someone doing it for 5 years.

If you're legitimately working, then you have a work permit and a visa that doesn't require a border run. If you're legitimately studying, then you have an education visa that doesn't require a border run. If you're living in Thailand and are doing border runs, then you're not living there legitimately. Small inconvenience for the the tourist that is currently country-hopping, but anyone planning to do that in the future now knows.

[Loptr]

Phew! Close one for me. I was planning on doing my first run of this kind today across the Chiang Rai border as my Tourist Visa was due to expire today. Thankfully, I decided to extend in Thailand for another 30 days instead before the long holiday weekend kicked in. I feel bad for those stranded on the other side of the border who may not have enough cash to take them to the nearest embassy and get the visa now required.

Why couldn't this be mentioned earlier?

How do these people survive on "holiday" as a tourist if they can't afford the price of a visa to get back in to Thailand. I would humbly suggest this is the very reason that the authorities are doing what they are doing.

I agree. We hear of how Thailand wants to improve the quality of visitors to the country. IMO this is one way to do it, by cracking down on back-to-back VOA.

Let's face it, foreigners have been gaming the system for years by doing border runs. This was not the original intent of VOA. If a person has a legitimate reason to stay in Thailand beyond the VOA time frame, then get a proper visa. It is more cost effective over the long run, not to mention the time savings and safety issues of doing border runs.

Thailand is not the only country to begin tightening up on the perpetual tourist and no, Thailand's paperwork requirements are no different than most countries that I have spent time in over the years. You want to play the game, you have to follow the rules. IMO the most vocal farang against this change in enforcement are the very folks it is targeting.

[dantilley]

Well go and get a 60 day tourist visa then if you plan to stay whilst waiting on paperwork. you can extend that whilst in country if you need more time. not rocket science is it.

You say that with all the unctuousness of someone who is unaffected by the situation and has no sympathy for genuine travellers whose plans will be seriously disrupted by this move.

My wife and I will be travelling to Thailand in December. The plan is to stay 8-10 weeks, as she has to have an operation which she wishes to have done in a Thai clinic. So how do I extend my stay beyond 30 days now? We will be in Ubon Ratchathani, and the plan was to pop over to Pakse once or twice, which is an easy trip. Now I will have to fly to Viengchang or Penang or Phnom Penh (two flights each way) with no idea how long it will take me to get a tourist visa when I get there. With the changes in the situation, I would imagine it will be bedlam at those embassies, with hordes of visa applicants.

"Oh", I hear you say, "get a tourist visa before you leave".

Well I live on a Greek island, and to get a visa from the Thai Embassy in Athens will entail a flight to Athens, plus at least one night in a hotel there, plus other expenses (local transport, eating etc) of being away in a city. I wouldn't see much (if any) change out of €500 just to get a tourist visa. And that's if I went to Athens on my own and left my wife at home.

not rocket science is it

I'm sure your attitude would be somewhat different if you were in my shoes...

Another thing to remember is that you're not going to be a full 500 Euros down, because you would save some money from not having to do the visa runs to Laos: with transport and Lao visas for 2 people needed each time the costs can add up. Maybe not quite 500 Euros, but with a visa you also have the peace of mind that you are definitely legal and immune to any further rule changes, and of course you don't have the hassle of needing to leave Ubon every 15 days (and those visa runs can become a drag, even if you are relatively near a border).

[alanrchase]

I wonder how many arrivals will disappear from the TAT roles after August.... It would be funny if they have to stop publishing arrivals because it is decreasing and therefore an embarrassment

Over the years so many people have suggested that this, that and the other policy will end tourism in Thailand. Been reading it in the papers letters pages for years. The visa clampdown will have very little affect on tourism. Still a nice place at the moment, hope it stays that way. If you wish to live here it is not that difficult, do it legally.

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[Suradit69]

Well... that day has finally come.

One wonders if immigration, in their usual farsightedness, has increased the capacity of neighbouring Thai consulates to deal with the huge influx of proper visa-seekers. Of course, each consulate has the autonomy to refuse to issue visas if the crowds prove too inconvenient for them. Expect chaos on your next visa run.

Immigrations has nothing to do with embassies and consulates, a concept that seems very difficult for TV regulars to grasp. Immigrations does not issues visas. Consulates and embassies do ... or might do. Two related but separate matters. Many embassies and consulates from many countries limit the number of visas issued on a daily basis and the turn around time between application and issuance. For legitimate tourists, it should be a wonderful opportunity to visit a neighboring country. No need to increase the capacity of embassies or consulates. There will be a need for "tourists" to do a little "farsighted" planning though.

Most likely, many of the people who have depended on serial visa exempt entries are not eligible for visas. If they were, why would they keep doing border crossings just to get 15 to 30 more days over and over again?

[slipperylobster]

changes nothing. I have friends who have been here years and have never once crossed any boarder for any visa extension.This is Thailand-have money- do as you please.This will only make those visa fixers a little more money and many local Thai vendors/businesses a little less.

This has nothing to do with visa extensions but is all about those who do not have a visa and are doing border runs every 15/30 days to get another visa exempt entry. the time has come to sort their ........... and get a proper visa.

Lets face it. doing a border run every 15/30 days is costly, why not fly to a neighboring country for 2 days and get a proper tourist visa.

Visas are also limited too. For example, if you have an ED or other Non-Imm visa, then you get 2 Tour visas; you can't get anymore Tour Visas (at least in Vientiane). You'll either have to go back to a full 1 year non-imm visa (which is expensive), or have to leave. It's all about money.

How long do you have to be gone before getting a third tourist visa? I cannot find info for that. Justification would be a one month stay in my home country.

For example... I just got my second tourist visa (consecutive) as I stayed the winter here. I realize most tourists do not stay four months, but I do. So now, when this second tourist visa expires in two months, I understand I cannot apply for a third one right away. I would fly back home and do one there. Will I be refused still? Perhaps I should wait a few months before applying?

[cacruden]

There seems to be a little confusion here.... VOA is NOT the same as the 15/30 day Entry (that is called a Visa WAIVER - i.e. no visa entry for qualified countries). VOA I believe is typically only available at the airport (not sure about Thailand) and it is a Visa for people that do not qualify for the waiver but for countries that they want to make easier than having to go to the Embassy and apply for a visa (multi-day process).

[alanrchase]

changes nothing. I have friends who have been here years and have never once crossed any boarder for any visa extension.This is Thailand-have money- do as you please.This will only make those visa fixers a little more money and many local Thai vendors/businesses a little less.

This has nothing to do with visa extensions but is all about those who do not have a visa and are doing border runs every 15/30 days to get another visa exempt entry. the time has come to sort their ........... and get a proper visa.

Lets face it. doing a border run every 15/30 days is costly, why not fly to a neighboring country for 2 days and get a proper tourist visa.

Visas are also limited too. For example, if you have an ED or other Non-Imm visa, then you get 2 Tour visas; you can't get anymore Tour Visas (at least in Vientiane). You'll either have to go back to a full 1 year non-imm visa (which is expensive), or have to leave. It's all about money.

How long do you have to be gone before getting a third tourist visa? I cannot find info for that. Justification would be a one month stay in my home country.

For example... I just got my second tourist visa (consecutive) as I stayed the winter here. I realize most tourists do not stay four months, but I do. So now, when this second tourist visa expires in two months, I understand I cannot apply for a third one right away. I would fly back home and do one there. Will I be refused still? Perhaps I should wait a few months before applying?

Love to know where you lads get the money to stay here year round on numerous visa runs without a job? I am an old fart but do you do it on the interwhatsit?

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[cacruden]

Usually you can get only up to 2 tourist visas in a given year before they will likely refuse you.

[Mario2008]

How long do you have to be gone before getting a third tourist visa? I cannot find info for that. Justification would be a one month stay in my home country.

For example... I just got my second tourist visa (consecutive) as I stayed the winter here. I realize most tourists do not stay four months, but I do. So now, when this second tourist visa expires in two months, I understand I cannot apply for a third one right away. I would fly back home and do one there. Will I be refused still? Perhaps I should wait a few months before applying?

The new rule does not apply to tourist visas.

two or three (double entry) tourist visa is a decision made by that consulate, although in general too many tourist visas in a row is discouraged.

[slipperylobster]

This has nothing to do with visa extensions but is all about those who do not have a visa and are doing border runs every 15/30 days to get another visa exempt entry. the time has come to sort their ........... and get a proper visa.

Lets face it. doing a border run every 15/30 days is costly, why not fly to a neighboring country for 2 days and get a proper tourist visa.

Visas are also limited too. For example, if you have an ED or other Non-Imm visa, then you get 2 Tour visas; you can't get anymore Tour Visas (at least in Vientiane). You'll either have to go back to a full 1 year non-imm visa (which is expensive), or have to leave. It's all about money.

How long do you have to be gone before getting a third tourist visa? I cannot find info for that. Justification would be a one month stay in my home country.

For example... I just got my second tourist visa (consecutive) as I stayed the winter here. I realize most tourists do not stay four months, but I do. So now, when this second tourist visa expires in two months, I understand I cannot apply for a third one right away. I would fly back home and do one there. Will I be refused still? Perhaps I should wait a few months before applying?

Love to know where you lads get the money to stay here year round on numerous visa runs without a job? I am an old fart but do you do it on the interwhatsit?

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simply a case of a military pension, my friend. no, I am not a self made millionaire, but I have the military pension and a bit of disabilitiy. Hope that clears up the confusion.

[Kerryd]

Too many people here don't even bother to read the article and then just start making crap up.

Too many keep trying to come up with "but I'm special and this shouldn't apply to me" scenarios.

Too many are asking questions, which get answered, but then no one reads the answer.

Too many keep coming up with the same lame examples "but what about someone who flies into Thailand, then goes to (Laos/Cambodia/blah blah blah) for a few days and tries to come back to Thailand and doesn't know about the change in rules ?" "What about someone who lives near the border and pops over to do some shopping once a month".

What I see are a bunch of 30/15 day visa runners whining because the gravy train has dried up. They don't qualify for a long term visa because (No job, no wife, no money, absolutely no desire to learn the language, especially if it means spending money that could better be used for beer.) They are not "tourists". Tourists are people who go somewhere, have a vacation, then go home. "Milkers" are people who go somewhere and then try to exploit loopholes so they can stay indefinitely.

As was clearly mentioned in at least one post, the Immigration agents will be instructed to look at your passport to determine if you are a "Visa run Out/In" person.

Offshore workers ? No problem - easy for the Immigration officers to see "1 month in, 1 month out" or "1 month in, 2 month out" etc.

"Legitimate" tourist ? No problem. Immigration officer looks, notes arriving at (Bangkok/Phuket etc), spent a few days/weeks in Thailand, went to (Laos/Cambodia/etc), stayed a few days, came back to Thailand. Officer notes that this is not something repeated every 15/30 days, stamps passport and done.

Guy living "near the border" that for the last 2, 3, 10 years has been crossing the border to go shopping once every 15/30 days (conveniently when his previous 15/30 day stamp is about to expire) ? Bull !

From the sounds of things on this thread, methinks there's going to be a whole lot of TV members in for a rude shock in the near future. Just think though, if y'all go out and get Ed or Retirement visas, you can go over to the "Waaaaa - why do I have to report to Immigration once every 90 days" whining thread !

[Suradit69]

Yep..it is those younger "english professors" that fall in love, and overstay... just pushing everything to the limit with immigration. Hiding out, teaching english, and..."how evil can it get"....doing border runs every month.

nothing to do with being evil......the visa wavier system is intended for tourists from certain countries, not for living and working in Thailand, one suspects the 'English professors" have had a good run, now its time to pay the piper....

if you are living/working here long term do it properly and don't take the p*ss out the system and get some sort of visa...

I've worked here in Thailand for nearly seven years and these border runs have saved my bacon several times due to the incompetence of agencies and schools trying to process work permits and teacher's license. The ones that will be most affected by this dumb rule enforcement are those who are trying to work here legit. What about those who are fired by their school for whatever reason? What recourse do these teachers have other than packing up their bags and going back to their home country? I just love the double standards that Thais employ against foreigners and I love their apologists. Fortunately, I am going back to America next week.

"What recourse do these teachers have other than packing up their bags and going back to their home country? "

And this is bad because ...? Most people who choose to work in a country other than their own should always assume their employment could be terminated and that they will have to return home at some point. If they really are as important to their employer as they imagine themselves to be, then the employing school will have to ensure their presence in Thailand is properly documented. I doubt when they accepted employment that anyone guaranteed them perpetual residency in Thailand. Most employees are remarkably expendable despite their own sense of self-importance.

[slipperylobster]

Doesn't it just rock your soul to have people assume you are doing something wrong...like working illegally.

How arrogant can that be.???

[JLCrab]

So why wouldn't someone over age 50 with a 'good' US pension not just get a Non-IMM visa and then extend based on retirement and stop with all the tourist visa / visa exempt entry BS?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I have read 10 pages of this already and it is getting late

I have yet to see a definition of "back-to-back".

Are we talking same day?

Next day?

A week?

Well, I asked basically the same question back on page 7...and I see...no one has even suggested an answer to it on all the ensuing pages (now up to page 13).

If, per the language in the OP report, Immigration is saying only ONE visa-exempt border crossing, as I asked before, one visa-exempt land border entry PER WHAT?

--One between any airport in and outs?

--One between receiving any regular visa?

--One per some period of time (days / weeks / months)?

I'm presuming no one has offered any suggested answer, because none of us have much of a clue based on the somewhat vague announcement.

[sometimewoodworker]

CP3 #159 above

" I called up thai embassy in my country and they said I can't get a tourist visa since I am from visa exempt country."

I think whomever you spoke to at your embassy needs to review Thai Immigration regs. You CAN get a tourist visa for Thailand, not a problem, just go to another country and apply at the Thai Embassy or Consulate.

The 15- or 30-day visa exempt has no relation to tourist visas, it's just a convenience for people making short trips to Thailand.

Mac

+1

I'm from a visa exempt country and have had tourist and non-O visas and many visa exempt entry's all depended on my length of stay.

[alanrchase]

This has nothing to do with visa extensions but is all about those who do not have a visa and are doing border runs every 15/30 days to get another visa exempt entry. the time has come to sort their ........... and get a proper visa.

Lets face it. doing a border run every 15/30 days is costly, why not fly to a neighboring country for 2 days and get a proper tourist visa.

Visas are also limited too. For example, if you have an ED or other Non-Imm visa, then you get 2 Tour visas; you can't get anymore Tour Visas (at least in Vientiane). You'll either have to go back to a full 1 year non-imm visa (which is expensive), or have to leave. It's all about money.

How long do you have to be gone before getting a third tourist visa? I cannot find info for that. Justification would be a one month stay in my home country.

For example... I just got my second tourist visa (consecutive) as I stayed the winter here. I realize most tourists do not stay four months, but I do. So now, when this second tourist visa expires in two months, I understand I cannot apply for a third one right away. I would fly back home and do one there. Will I be refused still? Perhaps I should wait a few months before applying?

Love to know where you lads get the money to stay here year round on numerous visa runs without a job? I am an old fart but do you do it on the interwhatsit?

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simply a case of a military pension, my friend. no, I am not a self made millionaire, but I have the military pension and a bit of disabilitiy. Hope that clears up the confusion.

Thanks for that. Unfortunate if it does not meet the financial requirements but get your point.

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[slipperylobster]

Too many people here don't even bother to read the article and then just start making crap up.

Too many keep trying to come up with "but I'm special and this shouldn't apply to me" scenarios.

Too many are asking questions, which get answered, but then no one reads the answer.

Too many keep coming up with the same lame examples "but what about someone who flies into Thailand, then goes to (Laos/Cambodia/blah blah blah) for a few days and tries to come back to Thailand and doesn't know about the change in rules ?" "What about someone who lives near the border and pops over to do some shopping once a month".

What I see are a bunch of 30/15 day visa runners whining because the gravy train has dried up. They don't qualify for a long term visa because (No job, no wife, no money, absolutely no desire to learn the language, especially if it means spending money that could better be used for beer.) They are not "tourists". Tourists are people who go somewhere, have a vacation, then go home. "Milkers" are people who go somewhere and then try to exploit loopholes so they can stay indefinitely.

As was clearly mentioned in at least one post, the Immigration agents will be instructed to look at your passport to determine if you are a "Visa run Out/In" person.

Offshore workers ? No problem - easy for the Immigration officers to see "1 month in, 1 month out" or "1 month in, 2 month out" etc.

"Legitimate" tourist ? No problem. Immigration officer looks, notes arriving at (Bangkok/Phuket etc), spent a few days/weeks in Thailand, went to (Laos/Cambodia/etc), stayed a few days, came back to Thailand. Officer notes that this is not something repeated every 15/30 days, stamps passport and done.

Guy living "near the border" that for the last 2, 3, 10 years has been crossing the border to go shopping once every 15/30 days (conveniently when his previous 15/30 day stamp is about to expire) ? Bull !

From the sounds of things on this thread, methinks there's going to be a whole lot of TV members in for a rude shock in the near future. Just think though, if y'all go out and get Ed or Retirement visas, you can go over to the "Waaaaa - why do I have to report to Immigration once every 90 days" whining thread !

lol....you sure get upset easy

[ukrules]

Well I'm off to England for a week in about 7 weeks time and I'll collect a triple entry tourist visa while I'm there so that should see me through until March 2015.

I live in Thailand full time on tourist visas at the moment. I previously had an Ed visa for learning Thai but the lessons weren't nearly enough to do the job properly by themselves and it requires a much larger commitment of time outside of the classroom than I am prepared to commit to so after the year was up I allowed my Ed visa to lapse and didn't move on to the second year. There's really not much point if I haven't learned the first year properly first.

I don't work here and don't have any requirement to employ four Thai's so I won't be starting a local company any time soon. I'm also too young to get a retirement visa.

I earn my money from outside of Thailand due to owning a business which I pay various people to operate on my behalf. I email them instructions / decisions which keeps things running smoothly.

If they introduce more hoops for me to jump through I'll take me and my relatively small 250,000 Baht earnings per month to Cambodia and they can stick it.

My girlfriend has already agreed to move to Phnom Penh if the conditions ever become unfavourable here.

[Ricedout]

What about new Non Immigrant O visas, do they still have multiple entry as before?

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Depends where you apply and for what reason.

So how does it work now if I'm applying for a 60 day visa to go back the Los with my son but decide to pop over to the Philippines for 3 weeks can I still get back in on my 60 day visa or do I apply in Manila for whole new visa? As I'm flying home from Thai?

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[philw]

Well, now the visa system is so complex that no one understands it. Not even the Thais.

What happens if you are a genuine tourist flying around using VOAs (Visa exemptions on arrival) and you pop over to Indo to surf a bit and then come back to Thailand and then pop over again.

It is all degenerating into the ridiculous...

How many people pop over to Indo to do some surfing via a land border ?

I tried, failed.

[true blue]

I sometimes wonder if Thailand wants visitors visiting the Kingdom if those who do these runs every month are given a hard time they will take their money and spend it somewhere else which in return will have an adverse effect on Thailand . I was under the impression that a single type visa was / would be available for Asian countries or have I been misguided. One rule that needs to be changed is that those people on extension of stay visas ( retirement ) should all be treated the same way why should a falang married to a Thai get away with only having to have 40,000 per month whereas a Falang married to a Falang has to have 65,000 every month !!!

typical kopite,selfish and arrogant,

[devaram]

I dont even get why it matters at this point this place is goin down baby!

Time to bail!

As in alternative plans?

[inutil]

Poor teachers...

I popped to thailand a week before songkran last year. Got a teaching job within a day of it finishing in bkk. Had the thirty day visa. Asked them to get on the Non immi 0 visa right away to save me any boarder runs.

Arrived in Trat for my new job in May. Asked the people when i could expect the visa since you know... didnt want to fill up my brand new passport with cambodia visas. Was told they hadnt started because they needed signatures from the school people... and they wouldnt actually be around until May 15th... Job was also delayed to June 1st because school didnt want to pay half a month salary to a teacher. Ugh...

Did another couple of boarder hops. Asked them again about the Non Immi... they will send someone up soon...

Did another couple... wheres my visa? We're just getting the details.

Quit the job (not for that reason by the way, i got a half day gratis of the school every second thursday to do my visa run... but honestly, i might still be waiting on the bloody thing. Just before i left they kinda suggested i take a few days and get a single entry from Phnom Penh. So i handed my passport to the cambodian mafia at Hat lek and hoped for the best. Got it back in one piece, and that pretty much helped me stick around until i finally scored a job in China and processed all the documents.

Dunno, maybe not everyone had to go through the same silliness, but i really hope theyre speeding up the nonsense for getting that Non immi 0 visa so they can actually employ people from outside the country in the future with the visa ready.

[Loptr]

Looks like visa on arrival could soon be history.

People have to get a visa which makes more money for the bent officials.

Does anyone know how much a visa is these days?

People such as oil and gas and mining guys wont want to waste their valuable time off travelling to an embassy in another country then waiting for a visa just so they can have their month off. These blokes will be lost to other countries such as Cambodia and The PI who still have sane and workable visa policies. Their departure will be an enormous financial blow to Phuket.

Did you stop to think that this is the intent of these enforcement changes -or- are you stuck on stupid, much like the namesake in your avatar?

Having worked in O&G for decades, securing a visa to reside in my country of choice has never been a problem for me, even in Thailand.

[samran]

So...come August Thailand can kiss goodbye to all the oil and gas and mining lads who fly in and out on month on, month off rosters?

My reading of the Thai rules is that it is to prevent visa runs, ie turning round and then coming back the same day.

[p_brownstone]

About time this happened.

yes I agree

I see the holier than though brigade have arrived

If you are on a legit visa then what business is it of yours if some people are not and want to do a border run?

It's not their of course.

However please don't come whining back when you are rejected on an attempted return to Thailand as a "Tourist".

As I see it it's simply long overdue enforcement of current legislation.

I eagerly await a similarly robust reaction to the long "Overstayers" who so contemptuously disregard the Thai Immigration laws.

Patrick

[boomerangutang]

I don't like this new policy. Even though it won't affect me now, it would have adversely affected me in years prior, as it would have been stone drag for many posters here (years ago), who now (that they've got annual visas) are callous toward younger crowd.

This new law will make things difficult for younger folks. It will turn them and their dollars/euros over to Laos and other more decent destinations. Already, most backpackers only come through Thailand quickly and prefer to spend the lion's share of their time in neighboring countries. I know, because I meet hundreds of backpackers each year - who use Thailand as a stepping stone to better destinations.

Thai officialdom and ThaiVisa old fogies probably think; "So what. They're grubby, they don't spend much, they dress badly, etc." Well, besides being our sons and daughters, they are spending every day. An average backpacker might spend $1,000/month (or twice that, if plane tickets are included). So if Thailand turns away 500,000 backpackers, that's $5 to $10 billion spent elsewhere, outside of Thailand.

More important: Today's backpackers are tomorrow's middle class and rich folks. If they have a good memory of Thailand, it's likely they'll come back to visit when they've got more spending money, and they might bring their kids with them.

TAT is always going to favor big spending tourists, and TAT spends billions of baht each year to cater to them, via golf courses, promotions, publications, etc. It's like Thaksin's Elite Card. For every dollar they spend to promote it, they might make 50 cents.

[Pralaad]

So...come August Thailand can kiss goodbye to all the oil and gas and mining lads who fly in and out on month on, month off rosters?

I am pretty sure the new regulations apply ONLY to those doing back to back visa runs. If one has a 1 month break in between, i do not think this new regulations apply.

The oil and gas guys do month on, month off, so there will be 1 month between the visits, which is genuine, as oppose to someone doing monthly or 2 weekly runs

Not all oil and gas guys work a month on a month off. Some do 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, 3 weeks on, 3 weeks off, 5 weeks on, 5 weeks off and 6 weeks on, 6 weeks off.

This will definitely affect quite a few of them.

It will just cost them more money