Immigration boss confirms the Out-In visa run is dead

[JSixpack]

You do have to wonder why they would inflict this on themselves when tourism is so low and they are fighting for every penny they can get....oh...hang on....they're not thinking or communicating, are they?

Because they aren't fighting for pennies, visa runners unimportant in the scheme of things. Those w/ any real money will get proper visas and thus bring in even more. The impecunious visa runners (the vast majority) probably don't even have the funds to pay their hospital bills if they get a serious illness. I've known a few. Good riddance.

People with common sense and respect for HUMAN RIGHTS should be freaked out.

Visa-running is a HUMAN RIGHT? Is that an official moveon.org position?

Does Thailand want foreigners to work here at all? Answer: NO!

Is Thailand on a suicide mission? Answer: YES!

Late to the party, pal. The "goose that laid the golden eggs" was killed, oh, 20 years ago according to irate letters sent by farangs to the English language newspapers before there was internet. And similarly "the last nail in the coffin" was driven. Since then, Thailand has gone nowhere but downhill and as a result the economy is on par w/ N. Korea's. Been at the bottom; just nowhere to go. Don't you know about all the Thai refugees flooding neighboring countries?

i have a non O for the past 15 years and even i am thinking of moving away for this idiotic country, just not the fun place for me anymore (tired)

Great! Bye.

[JSixpack]

Nevermind. Just stay illegally and pay 20k on the way out. Save a ton of dough and wasted effort and time in the end.

Oh--brilliant.

Edited May 13, 2014 by JSixpack

[Pralaad]

lets imagine, that the fingerprinting costs will come in the form of a new or higher airport tax, right ... so my new fingerprinted biometric pass can start to do its work ? on top of this, an extra medical insurance contribution, more tax, blablabla

thailand apparently has TOO MUCH TOURISTS

Have not you heard its not about the quantity but the quality.

In all seriousness, really can not understand why so many think Thailand owes them anything or should make things easy for them.

Those with sufficient funds have some kind of visa's, those without clearly can not afford one. Why would Thailand accommodate those?,

Yes, its somewhat tough if one is under the retirement age and not married but its not the end of the world, there are other options such as ED Visa, Non B or Investment visa

If one is rich enough to retire before the retirement age, surely he/she can afford investment visa!!!!

If unsure about length of stay, can always learn some Thai to help in making final decision, so ED visa is there.

And if all else fails, can always open a company, sole trader

[arisaje]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

---------------

Blacklisting and forever banning some of the out-and-out criminals can only be a good thing.

I see several people bleating about being "respectable", owning property, etc -- If they are such pillars of society they will have no problem in getting a triple-entry tourist visa from their home country, which can be made valid for over a year using the immigration office in Thailand to get the extensions, etc.

But what happens if u r respectable, owning property etc., with a triple entry tourist Visa, which I use, to come every Winter? If they now start asking questions on re-entry at the border and u tell the truth about staying at property u own or rent with your 'girlfriend', or even renting a property alone, can they legitimately say: "Well that means u r not a tourist then", and refuse re-entry. Is it legal for a 'tourist' to rent a property in Thailand.? Are we, to be safe, going to have to be dishonest and give a false itinery or hotel address?

Tourists can rent villas or apartments for sure, which is actually better for you. You can have the owner provide you a receipt or letter for your rental paid, the duration etc. flight tickets in and out. Problem will be your first comment…..if you own a property then they will want to know how and see the deeds. Lets just hope you didn't buy it through a shell company with nominee thai share holders…..because thats illegal now too and you risk losing the property to the state.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Never to come back again, wow people really need to start getting the correct visas then or say bye bye to thai !

Thailand don't want the tourists like you. We need quality tourists.

Seems that you grabbed the wrong end of the stick...

[Tycoon]

I say this is a step in the right direction. It will clean out the scum bags and criminals that are making a dishonest life here.

Its easy, want to live here or work here do the right thing.

If your flat broke then you have no place here.

[Soutpeel]

"If we believe their purpose in coming to Thailand is not what they say it is, then we will order them to leave and they will be blacklisted. They will not be able to return to Thailand, ever."

So, if some guard at an immigration post has a bad day or just doesn't like your looks, he can at his discretion bar you from Thailand forever, because your story wasn't convincing enough for him. The possibilities for additional payoffs are infinite, I suppose.

It was ever thus.. The immigration officer has always had the exclusive right to determine if you should be let in or not.

But not permanently blacklist for life.. That was the domain of the courts.

Your taking the comment literally,

All an immigration official needs to do is put a "black mark" against your name in the immigration computer as an "undesirable" and you will never be getting in....doesn't need a court order, as a Non-citizen of a country the immigration official is the one who says yeah or nah to you getting in, so yes its conceivable it could be for life

[indieke]

All very confusing. "In and out", yes but what time-limit? I give an example, I am planning a 6-7 week holiday in November. There is a good chance I would not stay all the time in the Kingdom. My plan is after 2 weeks, to do a tour in Burma/Myanmar, for 6 days. Then go back less then 30 days to Thailand. Could that already put me in "trouble"?

If I just apply for a tourist-visa and stay in the Kingdom all the time, that would be no problem.

Just explain all that when you apply for your double entry tourist visa in the Thai embassy/consulate in your country.

Why? I am a tourist not staying any time more then 30 days? Why should I for a stay not exceeding 30 days apply for a visa? So I would ask for a double visa for 2 stays that neither one exceed those 30 days? And if the Officer believes I am not there for touristic purposes, I would be blacklisted for the rest of my life? C'mon!

[Pralaad]

Studying Thai, while having a visa based on that is not a loophole.

In the same way that retiring in Thailand and getting a visa based on that isn't, or getting a job in Thailand (God forbid. ) and getting a visa based on that isn't a loophole.

Seems there's a lot of people hating on a rich, successful person making money with their business here.

Probably because they haven't the ability to.

It is a scam when one holds ED visa but does not attend any classes.

It is even more of a scam if school is aware of this and does not report said person.

[sead]

All visa companies and immigration officers are now going to get better paid. Think how much they can ask for now

[naanaa]

Still a lot of confusions, it's thailand anyway! Sure they will have more updated information later.

[JLCrab]

Studying Thai, while having a visa based on that is not a loophole.

In the same way that retiring in Thailand and getting a visa based on that isn't, or getting a job in Thailand (God forbid. ) and getting a visa based on that isn't a loophole.

Seems there's a lot of people hating on a rich, successful person making money with their business here.

Probably because they haven't the ability to.

For a Person to get an ED Visa in Thailand requires 4 hours per week of study. For a Thai to get an ED Visa in USA requires 18 hours per week of classroom study

[Jackson86]

Good job by thai immigration, hopefully less crimes due to unwanted foreigners.

[stickylies]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

Good point. If you are "settled with lots of property here" then you are clearly not a tourist. You should not be in the country on a tourist visa. Seems to me these are exactly the sort of people who will end up being blacklisted if they do not get themselves onto the right kind of visa.

And, if not married, not working, not 50, no family, not in school, "settled" but without enough property or investment to satisfy those rules, what kind of visa is that exactly?

not married, not working, not 50, no family, not in school, "settled" -> should be granted the Highly Intelligent Visa or Quality Brain Tourist.

i'm in the same case and rely on triple TR visas which i'm sure they will keep on giving me (allowing me to stay as a tourist for 9 months/year). also, i have posted this before, there actually is a way to get Non Immigrant O 1 year multiple entry since I got one without being married or having thai children, or family, etc. etc.

[neverdie]

Nevermind. Just stay illegally and pay 20k on the way out. Save a ton of dough and wasted effort and time in the end.

Oh--brilliant.

Lengthy overstays penalty should be increased from 20k baht to 20 years and 20 baht per day during the 20 years imprisonment time (to pay for the serve of stale rice and fish head soup).

[Soutpeel]

Nevermind. Just stay illegally and pay 20k on the way out. Save a ton of dough and wasted effort and time in the end.

Oh--brilliant.

and with comments like "happysanook's" people wonder why immigration are cracking down on things...

One suspects the next phase in Immigration's crack down will be punishing over stayers to the fullest extent of the law

...no more days of paying 20k, a slap on the wrist and come back to Thailand tomorrow...

[jpinx]

All very confusing. "In and out", yes but what time-limit? I give an example, I am planning a 6-7 week holiday in November. There is a good chance I would not stay all the time in the Kingdom. My plan is after 2 weeks, to do a tour in Burma/Myanmar, for 6 days. Then go back less then 30 days to Thailand. Could that already put me in "trouble"?

If I just apply for a tourist-visa and stay in the Kingdom all the time, that would be no problem.

Just explain all that when you apply for your double entry tourist visa in the Thai embassy/consulate in your country.

A Single entry Tourist Visa is appropriate for that itinerary, as you get permission for 30 days on your return.

If he wants to leave Thailand and come back after a week or so -- he needs a double entry

No he wouldnt because he can use one visa exempt entry (allowed) and one single tourist visa..

------------

I take your point, but I believe the Permit-to-Stay given on entry will depend on a travel plan, tickets and funding, which might fall foul of the "plan" to get a visa in an adjoining country - which may or may not be granted..

[tropo]

it's not difficult to arrange an appropriate visa for yourself.

and anyway it's much less hassle than having to do border runs every 30 days.

It's not easy if a person with enough money to retire who is under 50 would like to stay for long periods of time. Ed visas will be an ok option for some, but not everyone wants to go to school.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Never to come back again, wow people really need to start getting the correct visas then or say bye bye to thai !

Yes, that is absolutely right. ED visa will become very popular now. Just in case anybody needs help with their visas please contact Walen School or PM me.

don't you mean if anybody wants to study thai language (at a respectable educational establishment that provides the appropriate visas for its students) they should contact you??!!...

No, he means exactly what he has written. That the primary reason for him spamming this thread is about visas, not learning Thai.

I would avoid doing business with such a person.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Jiu-Jitsu

[DaBear]

Hello everyone,been a member of this forum for years read regularly but never post,until now

I flew from swampy to london yesterday after spending 14 days there and am returning to Thailand this Friday for another 14 days, i also spent another 21 days in thailand over the last 3 months and will spend another 14 days in june,I am a tourist always stay in hotels that i book before arrival, Ipick up the 30 day Visa Exemption Rule stamp at airport,have no business interests in thailand.In august when the airport rules take effect is are my pattern of visits likely to fall foul to the new rule change?

[hawker9000]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

Good point. If you are "settled with lots of property here" then you are clearly not a tourist. You should not be in the country on a tourist visa. Seems to me these are exactly the sort of people who will end up being blacklisted if they do not get themselves onto the right kind of visa.

And, if not married, not working, not 50, no family, not in school, "settled" but without enough property or investment to satisfy those rules, what kind of visa is that exactly?

not married, not working, not 50, no family, not in school, "settled" -> should be granted the Highly Intelligent Visa or Quality Brain Tourist.

i'm in the same case and rely on triple TR visas which i'm sure they will keep on giving me (allowing me to stay as a tourist for 9 months/year). also, i have posted this before, there actually is a way to get Non Immigrant O 1 year multiple entry since I got one without being married or having thai children, or family, etc. etc.

I hear that from time-to-time, but the question I never seem to get answered is what is the actual legitimate reason or justification for such a visa. I wouldn't be interested in some sort of rules-bent or looked-the-other-way scheme that isn't entirely on the up&up and just makes me potential victim to some future "crackdown" or discretionary denial by a zealous immo officer at the airport.

Edited May 13, 2014 by hawker9000

[shawn82]

Another confusing article - many references to tourist visas rather than visa exempt arrivals. Are they now saying that even on a double entry tourist visa you are not allowed to do an 'in-out'?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

At least in the Swedish Thai ambassy they have demanded a travel plan + tickets for multi entry visa since Jan 2014.

[stickylies]

I say this is a step in the right direction. It will clean out the scum bags and criminals that are making a dishonest life here.

sigh... u have no idea how things work in thailand. money talks. bar owners are quasi-criminals, buying land through loopholes is not legal, etc.

i'm not judging people who deal with that kinda stuff, up to them, but don't pretend you're holier than the pope, ok na khrap ?!

[timbus8]

I hope they have more luck with the finger scanners than the had here in Cambodia.

They started scanning a couple of years ago. All 10 fingers of tourists that hardly speak any English, by guys that hardly speak a word of English. Huge frustration, much shouting, enormous queues.

Result: the scanners are still there but haven't been used for a year

I could care less if they printed my toes. I never enter a country without my passport or proper visa if required.

[paz]

It was ever thus.. The immigration officer has always had the exclusive right to determine if you should be let in or not.

Incorrect, immigration decisions can be appealed to court.

[EBlair48]

It would now be interesting to see the true tourist figures. My guess is 30% drop.

Which brings up an interesting point about accurate tourism figures- how many entering on visa exemptions are really expat visa cheats? Add this figure into the already likely, er... massaged numbers ( and we know Govt official lie, Finance Minister Mr. Kittirat has explained.. ) and is tourism in T Land really expanding? With the political instability of late, is it even likely?

[happysanook]

Now the real question is what is going to happen with all the visa run company's ??

Their mini vans, offices and drivers?

+1

This was huge huge huge business for Thailand consulates, neighboring countries and the private sector (hotels, transportation etc...).

The airplane disappearing is about the dumbest excuse ever. Quite possibly in the history of mankind. All this will do is encourage people to stay illegally any they won't be able to track them at all.

I think some dumb person or people are just bored.

On a side note, this is quite possibly the worst time for them to do this with the baht down and the political issues Thailand has, they need all the extra dough they can get.

[Cnxforever]

The immigration boss can say whatever he wants he still has to stick to the law and regulations.

I am sure if one is married to a Thai and for whatever reason travels in and out of the country several times without a visa and does nothing wrong it is non of his business!

It is nowhere written how many times one can travel in and out except for the 90 days within 6 month maximum.

The immigration boss can not make up his own rules.

I wonder when any of the people he upset with this will sue the Thai immigration department in an international court for human rights abuses?

If the Korean man who traveled in and out of Thailand has income from abroad and maybe travels for work like many of us do and is not allowed back into the country for no other reason than too many stamps in his passport then he should sue the immigration for illegally separating him from his family!

I wonder when the first gay person will sue them for discrimination of not allowing gay marriage / partnerships and therefor having to put up 800.000 baht if over 50 as opposed to 400.000 baht if one us married for a visa - under 50 there is virtually no legal option to stay with their Thai partner permanently - the discrimination against a minority is obvious!

I wonder when the first straight person will sue them for making them put money in the bank to get a visa to be with their family this is against human rights especially now that the visa runs are gone - if you do not have 400.000 baht you can't get a marriage visa and can't be with your family?

If you have a wife and maybe children here but still work outside the country you have the right to be with them there are international laws which overrule petty immigration rules in different countries!

Any lawyers on here who could comment?

And please spare me the "we are guests here" response - I am sick and tired of being discriminated against and depend on the decision an official who is just maybe in a bad mood that day because his Mia Noy ran of with another guy!

Edited May 13, 2014 by Cnxforever

[paz]

it's not difficult to arrange an appropriate visa for yourself.

False, and I will not even wast time explaining you why. it is clear from you attitude you speak from a pedestal.

and anyway it's much less hassle than having to do border runs every 30 days.

So the people doing it were all idiots enjoying for the pleasure of discomfort, of course.

[paz]

Never to come back again, wow people really need to start getting the correct visas then or say bye bye to thai !

Thailand don't want the tourists like you. We need quality tourists.

Like "you", who? Are you Thai ?