Finance seeks Bt50-bn term loans to pay off Thai rice farmers

[belg]

here we go again ... but now they will force the banks ???

sell the stockpile rice... if the money does not add up, somebody will have to take the loss

but i guess, the rice scam will just go on and on and on

[SICHONSTEVE]

so many experts here...amazing how many people are so sure they are in command of all the facts...

the internet is a dangerous thing...makes everyone an expert on banking, governance , politics,

without the benefit of facts or the deductive reasoning to use the lack of data....

as a man once said with absolute certainty..

there are known unknowns

and there are unknown unknowns

when we find out what we don't know then perhaps

we can form conclusions based on our lack of knowledge.

You don't have to be an financial expert - the General has laid it all out in plain Thai.

The BAAC will distribute 50 billion baht it has in reserves (this has been ordered) and the rest (about 40 billion baht) will be loaned from 30 competing banks on June 6th and June 13th, whereby the minimum participation pledge is 2 billion baht.

Is that complicated?? why do you need a degree in economics to understand that??

[SICHONSTEVE]

here we go again ... but now they will force the banks ???

sell the stockpile rice... if the money does not add up, somebody will have to take the loss

but i guess, the rice scam will just go on and on and on

I give up!!!!!!!!!!!!.

[SICHONSTEVE]

One thing for sure, there is no way that either Suthep or the Dems will be able to stop the army from getting loans. If they try to bully willing lenders as they did with Yingluck, the army will come down on them like a ton of bricks

I'm speechless at your ignorance!!!!

[djjamie]

The money does did not add up.

After 2 years 9 months and 2 days in office it has been concluded that 500 billion baht has been lost & 3 million tons of rice stolen from the rice scam which means that for every HOUR yingluck was PM she lost 20.8 million baht & 12,500 kgs of rice... thats PER HOUR! That's the rice committee chairman.

I wait with anticipation for the Generals breakdown of what has been going on for the past 2 years 9 months and 2 days that the PTP have hidden and dismissed facts.

I am sure Supa would say "I told you so"

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Rice-scheme-produces-over-Bt500bn-in-loss-30234633.html

Edited May 27, 2014 by djjamie

[belg]

there are certain people in this country that have as much money as the whole yearly budget of this country

why do they not give them a 0% loan to help the poor farmers and the nation ?

[rubl]

Here we go again. There are big declamations on how fast they will pay the farmers, but, of course, there is no money in the budget. Is it just not the same what the government did?? Empty promises??

Obviously, Thailand has no money. This is why the government was struggling to pay the farmers ready cash.

Actually last year the Yingluck government indicated to need 275 billion or so for the 2013/2014 season and to have the financial means. The caretaker government suddenly announced to need to borrow 130 bililon.

So, it's not a case of Thailand has no money, it's more a case of lack of fiscal discipline in the Yingluck administration. As all budgets were kept out of the National Budget parliament had only limited information on what was going on. Actually even now even a simple A4 page with 'details' is not available.

As for payingg farmers,

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/729396-thai-rice-pledging-scheme-farmers-overjoyed-as-payments-begin/

[SICHONSTEVE]

The money does did not add up.

After 2 years 9 months and 2 days in office it has been concluded that 500 billion baht has been lost & 3 million tons of rice stolen from the rice scam which means that for every HOUR yingluck was PM she lost 20.8 million baht & 12,500 kgs of rice... thats PER HOUR! That's the rice committee chairman.

I wait with anticipation for the Generals breakdown of what has been going on for the past 2 years 9 months and 2 days that the PTP have hidden and dismissed.

I am sure Supa would say "I told you so"

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Rice-scheme-produces-over-Bt500bn-in-loss-30234633.html

Unfortunately for them, they can dismiss it but it is just impossible to hide such a criminal act of this gargantuan proportion!!

Thaksin's people won't be the ones looking and checking either!!

[NanLaew]

the farmers will get their money this time, as promised. The culprits will face the consequences as promised. We'll probably see a reign of confiscating assets and cash and international arrest warrants.

All together it will be thourough house cleaning ...

How can anyone possibly see these announcements as anything else than just another, "The check is in the post" message to the farmers.

[NanLaew]

One thing for sure, there is no way that either Suthep or the Dems will be able to stop the army from getting loans. If they try to bully willing lenders as they did with Yingluck, the army will come down on them like a ton of bricks

I'm speechless at your ignorance!!!!

Why? Haven't you heard the old joke that opens with, "A soldier walks into a bank..."?

[boomerangutang]

Admittedly, the junta is looking rather good, but it's very early days. I wish them and and all Thai folks well, but after awhile, some policies will get dictated which rub some special interest groups the wrong way. Then it will hit home that essentially one man is running things, and it's up to his proclivities to decide what policies to enact. At least in a parliament, even a badly functioning one, there is some debating and voting. With a junta, that only exists among the very top unelected bananas, if at all. The military is based on the primary rule: 'follow orders.'

[rubl]

here we go again ... but now they will force the banks ???

sell the stockpile rice... if the money does not add up, somebody will have to take the loss

but i guess, the rice scam will just go on and on and on

Unlikely that the RPPS will be continued.

For the 2013/2014 season the Yingluck government showed the 275 billion Baht figure as being enough (and following promptly forgot to make reservations). Now I don't know if this is till now, or till begin of October. In the last case even more money may be required.

The RPPS was kept outside the National Budget, but I would assume any scheme replacing it will be put WITHIN the National Budget, be of less grand scale and cost money still. Subsidies tend to do that. At least within the National Budget there will be more transparency and accountability I hope.

[thumper101]

So what wasn't possible for various reasons a few months ago, is all possible today ?

We will see, said the blind guy.

Before the government had caretaker status and was not allowed incur liabilities by raising/borrowing funds to pay the farmers.

Sure, we know that same government had disregarded laws before but this time, under caretaker status, they could not do that anymore.

You will also remember that Suthep called on all banks to not provide funds to the government and also staged protests

at Government Savings Bank branches.One bank (forgot which one right now, or was it GSB?) that did consider loaning the government, soon saw

customers withdrawing lots of funds. That bank then backed out.

Perhaps PTP was unwilling to pay the farmers quickly, but they (later) also had opposition (Suthep/Democrats) blocking them,

and they also had laws blocking/prohibiting them.

Then there is martial law and the General calls all parties in for a meeting. But nobody wants to back down, give in, compromise.

Now, when you have a situation where there is a government with supporters on one side, opposition parties with supporters on the other side,

both parties trying to block each other physically or through judicial system (with investigation probes and filing court cases for impeachment/LM/corruption cases etc)

and threaten with violent clashes, not cooperating, not compromising etc...what do you? A coup.

And now those laws are not in effect anymore and the coup leader can do and order anything he wants, not being hindered by

any laws and not even the Constitution.

Are you never in a situation where you just want everybody to shut up and tie them to a chair and gag them and wipe everything from the table

and tell them how it is going to be?

When the general called in all those parties for a meeting to get funds to immediately pay the farmers (good strategic move by the way),

I am sure it went something along the lines of:"I am TELLING you, not ASKING you, to get me that money today".

Total trash.

Suthep announced that they would protest against the GSB to protect it from collapse as he feared there would be a run on the bank, then a week later he changed his mind and declared he would not stand against any bank wanting to make loans, but warned that there could be a backlash.

2 months later the GSB run happened, and that was at the same time the PDRC were collecting tens of millions for the farmers. Suthep never ever called a run on the bank so you are lying 100%. At the same time the run on the GSB was happening, Suthep was in the middle of a campaign against Thaksin commercial interests (AIS etc...).

Also, The EC actually granted a 20Bn loan, even though it was giving the PTP an electoral advantage, and not once did Suthep call out against this.

The facts are.... Nobody was willing to loan the government any money, they didn't trust them or the legalities of loaning to a government in trouble and in an election run up situation..... That is actually what happened, and I defy anyone to bring forward evidence that I am wrong... (no Khaosod reports please).

The PTP knew it had to pay the farmers, they held a meeting on dissolving parliament with the cabinet etc... Thaksin would have been involved all the way and not a single person including the Finance minister and Commerce minister who were handling the rice problem at that very time, ever bothered to speak up about sidelining the cash from central budget when they had the power to do so????... Come on man!!!

They knew exactly what they were doing and they hoped the financial pressure on the farmers would force them onto the streets of BKK to confront the protesters while the government were doing everything in their power to put the blame for delays on the PDRC.... It didn't work, in fact it backfired big time and only forced the rice farmers against the PTP.

The farmers may be uneducated, but they are far from stupid.

So you can stop with your silly red rhetoric, as it no longer works on this forum any more.

The rice scam and the delayed payments are the exclusive responsibility of the Thaksin led PTP government and no amount of twisting and spin will even fool uneducated farmers let alone educated westerners.

Maybe it would be a good idea to read the post before you call someone a liar. Arminbkk is spot, on so perhaps you can stop your silly yellow rhetoric.

You are just another red backing up a red liar as usual.

Go get the evidence that I am wrong... My post is made up from actual ThaiVisa post news items over the past months... Go get the evidence that these are not fact, as they were reported across all Thai media.

You can't... unless it is a Khaosod piece.

[ginjag]

So what wasn't possible for various reasons a few months ago, is all possible today ?

We will see, said the blind guy.

Before the government had caretaker status and was not allowed incur liabilities by raising/borrowing funds to pay the farmers.

Sure, we know that same government had disregarded laws before but this time, under caretaker status, they could not do that anymore.

You will also remember that Suthep called on all banks to not provide funds to the government and also staged protests

at Government Savings Bank branches.One bank (forgot which one right now, or was it GSB?) that did consider loaning the government, soon saw

customers withdrawing lots of funds. That bank then backed out.

Perhaps PTP was unwilling to pay the farmers quickly, but they (later) also had opposition (Suthep/Democrats) blocking them,

and they also had laws blocking/prohibiting them.

Then there is martial law and the General calls all parties in for a meeting. But nobody wants to back down, give in, compromise.

Now, when you have a situation where there is a government with supporters on one side, opposition parties with supporters on the other side,

both parties trying to block each other physically or through judicial system (with investigation probes and filing court cases for impeachment/LM/corruption cases etc)

and threaten with violent clashes, not cooperating, not compromising etc...what do you? A coup.

And now those laws are not in effect anymore and the coup leader can do and order anything he wants, not being hindered by

any laws and not even the Constitution.

Are you never in a situation where you just want everybody to shut up and tie them to a chair and gag them and wipe everything from the table

and tell them how it is going to be?

When the general called in all those parties for a meeting to get funds to immediately pay the farmers (good strategic move by the way),

I am sure it went something along the lines of:"I am TELLING you, not ASKING you, to get me that money today".

Total trash.

Suthep announced that they would protest against the GSB to protect it from collapse as he feared there would be a run on the bank, then a week later he changed his mind and declared he would not stand against any bank wanting to make loans, but warned that there could be a backlash.

2 months later the GSB run happened, and that was at the same time the PDRC were collecting tens of millions for the farmers. Suthep never ever called a run on the bank so you are lying 100%. At the same time the run on the GSB was happening, Suthep was in the middle of a campaign against Thaksin commercial interests (AIS etc...).

Also, The EC actually granted a 20Bn loan, even though it was giving the PTP an electoral advantage, and not once did Suthep call out against this.

The facts are.... Nobody was willing to loan the government any money, they didn't trust them or the legalities of loaning to a government in trouble and in an election run up situation..... That is actually what happened, and I defy anyone to bring forward evidence that I am wrong... (no Khaosod reports please).

The PTP knew it had to pay the farmers, they held a meeting on dissolving parliament with the cabinet etc... Thaksin would have been involved all the way and not a single person including the Finance minister and Commerce minister who were handling the rice problem at that very time, ever bothered to speak up about sidelining the cash from central budget when they had the power to do so????... Come on man!!!

They knew exactly what they were doing and they hoped the financial pressure on the farmers would force them onto the streets of BKK to confront the protesters while the government were doing everything in their power to put the blame for delays on the PDRC.... It didn't work, in fact it backfired big time and only forced the rice farmers against the PTP.

The farmers may be uneducated, but they are far from stupid.

So you can stop with your silly red rhetoric, as it no longer works on this forum any more.

The rice scam and the delayed payments are the exclusive responsibility of the Thaksin led PTP government and no amount of twisting and spin will even fool uneducated farmers let alone educated westerners.

Maybe it would be a good idea to read the post before you call someone a liar. Arminbkk is spot, on so perhaps you can stop your silly yellow rhetoric.

Arminbkk, did post some truth ---then he came back with the red BS--same you do---A bad government that has readies available does delay payments--BUT WHY--it is a PTP problem it should have been done but the rice chairperson was to busy shopping and opening OTOP shops. see sense wind up merchant.

you don't cry to the bank if they stop your credit card for not paying.

All this BS about banks and Suthep is kids talk--speak the truth--do you not realize your comments of denial are a laughing stock.

Subject===non payments when PTP were in office---NO EXCUSE... if you post again in a similar fashion you deserve to be ignored. TRUTH don't hurt anyone, why post lies, report Yingluck for non payment .

[Rimmer]

An off topic post in weird fonts has been removed

[Gunna]

Here we go again. There are big declamations on how fast they will pay the farmers, but, of course, there is no money in the budget. Is it just not the same what the government did?? Empty promises??

Obviously, Thailand has no money. This is why the government was struggling to pay the farmers ready cash.

Obviously you have no idea and haven't read anything explaining the situation with the Rice Scam for the last year or so.

PTP initially borrowed 500,000,000,000bt to fund the scam and was meant to sell the existing stockpiles of rice from the first crop to fund the second year.

The idiots in the Commerce ministry couldn't sell it at the price they wanted as the price of world rice had dropped so PTP borrowed more, hoping that by keeping Thai rice out of the market the price would increase.

But other countries had record crops, allowed exports and so nobody wanted 2 year old rotting, fumigated Thai rice. Even African countries rejected some of it as being unfit for human consumption and refused to pay.

They then made up stories about contracts for G2G deals to fob off the critics of the scam, but these turned out to be bogus contracts. Then they said they had MOU's but they weren't contracts either.

The first whistle blower Ms Supa was quickly sacked and told to shut up. Now she is at NACC there must be some very worried ex-officials. The paper shredders at the Ministry of Commerce would have been worn out.

December last year PTP called for elections and went to caretaker mode but forgot to borrow more to pay the farmers, as they either did know or read the law, or just thought they could ignore it, plus they thought they would be re-elected in 6 weeks and TS was at them the whole time about getting the Amnesty bill pushed through. So legal PTP couldn't borrow anymore money, but had to get re-elected before anyone found out about the 3M tons of missing rice and could follow the money trail to Dubai, Hong Kong & Switzerland.

So without the ability to borrow money PTP started selling rice to pay some of the farmers so they would still vote for them, but the world rice price dropped further and they couldn't sell enough to cover the payments.

With the cost of storage, fumigation, loss of stock through rot and theft, false stock that was never there, interest on loans, transport, sales commissions and the biggest cost of all about 30% skim for PTP and officials the total cost of the scam will be close to 1,000,000,000,000bt and most poor farmers are no better off, just the owners of large rice farms who were already wealthy and the rice milling companies, the rice farmers across the border in Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia who smuggled their rice across to Thailand to sell it for double what they could get in their own countries.

But the real winner was the man who designed, advocated, promoted and ran the Scam on Skype ( Thaksin if you didn't already know ) has made the most of all.

[Gil]

A pack of wolves was posted to defend a territory and its wealth. The leader of the pack decided to stop working for the weak, controversial yet greedy female master.

The wolves got rid of the master and the leader of the pack was praised for having knocked the master and her followers out. Then he also got praised for having bought the silence of those who were worshipping the master, this with borrowed money.

Hence, after having sent witnesses from other territories away, the whole pack was free to discreetly share the loot.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Gil

[SICHONSTEVE]

Here we go again. There are big declamations on how fast they will pay the farmers, but, of course, there is no money in the budget. Is it just not the same what the government did?? Empty promises??

Obviously, Thailand has no money. This is why the government was struggling to pay the farmers ready cash.

Obviously you have no idea and haven't read anything explaining the situation with the Rice Scam for the last year or so.

PTP initially borrowed 500,000,000,000bt to fund the scam and was meant to sell the existing stockpiles of rice from the first crop to fund the second year.

The idiots in the Commerce ministry couldn't sell it at the price they wanted as the price of world rice had dropped so PTP borrowed more, hoping that by keeping Thai rice out of the market the price would increase.

But other countries had record crops, allowed exports and so nobody wanted 2 year old rotting, fumigated Thai rice. Even African countries rejected some of it as being unfit for human consumption and refused to pay.

They then made up stories about contracts for G2G deals to fob off the critics of the scam, but these turned out to be bogus contracts. Then they said they had MOU's but they weren't contracts either.

The first whistle blower Ms Supa was quickly sacked and told to shut up. Now she is at NACC there must be some very worried ex-officials. The paper shredders at the Ministry of Commerce would have been worn out.

December last year PTP called for elections and went to caretaker mode but forgot to borrow more to pay the farmers, as they either did know or read the law, or just thought they could ignore it, plus they thought they would be re-elected in 6 weeks and TS was at them the whole time about getting the Amnesty bill pushed through. So legal PTP couldn't borrow anymore money, but had to get re-elected before anyone found out about the 3M tons of missing rice and could follow the money trail to Dubai, Hong Kong & Switzerland.

So without the ability to borrow money PTP started selling rice to pay some of the farmers so they would still vote for them, but the world rice price dropped further and they couldn't sell enough to cover the payments.

With the cost of storage, fumigation, loss of stock through rot and theft, false stock that was never there, interest on loans, transport, sales commissions and the biggest cost of all about 30% skim for PTP and officials the total cost of the scam will be close to 1,000,000,000,000bt and most poor farmers are no better off, just the owners of large rice farms who were already wealthy and the rice milling companies, the rice farmers across the border in Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia who smuggled their rice across to Thailand to sell it for double what they could get in their own countries.

But the real winner was the man who designed, advocated, promoted and ran the Scam on Skype ( Thaksin if you didn't already know ) has made the most of all.

But, but, when will they get paid???.

[SICHONSTEVE]

the farmers will get their money this time, as promised. The culprits will face the consequences as promised. We'll probably see a reign of confiscating assets and cash and international arrest warrants.

All together it will be thourough house cleaning ...

How can anyone possibly see these announcements as anything else than just another, "The check is in the post" message to the farmers.

Because the (oh so powerful) army general is dictating and not the PTP!!! Things WILL get done now and Thaksin's power base has gone into full disintegration mode!!!!

They already love the general up North as he is actually sorting Thaksin's mess out and can be seen to genuinely care for the people unlike their previously perceived beliefs about Thaksin!!!

[bander]

"Pongpanu Svetarundra, deputy permanent secretary of the ministry, said those financial institutions interested in joining the bidding would be required to offer a minimum of Bt2 billion."

Most of the 50 billion who went missing have been used to pay redshirts when they was protesting in Bangkok.

Why don't the Shinawatra clan join the bidding? Or is it time for the whole clan to pack the bags and join Mr. T?

[pantareiyingluck]

Will this mean another run at the banks by the Bangkok people, if the banks decide to just hand out money to the farmers just from out of the blue?

No, this will not happen again, there is now a sensible junta administration, moreover Thai banks will not get involved in silly financial activities.

Sensible administration? They took power 6 x 24 hours ago. You are a quick auditor: apply at Price Waterhouse & Cooper!

I garantuee you it'll take a while to show but this admin. will be far from sensible. It will be more mess.

[Always18]

A source in the Finance Ministry said its auditing committee had found that about 3 million tonnes of rice had disappeared from the stockpiles.

not unexpected but still shocking ... get the culprits ... round 'em up ...

I'm sure I read, only a few weeks ago, that an audit had found that NONE of the stockpiled rice had gone missing?

Did I dream that or was that a "special" audit?!

[boomerangutang]

T and all his buddies haven't yet responded to the latest coup. Don't think he'll go out like a lamb.

I can picture T with a list in front of him, ticking off which items to propose to the Issanaites, when he gets ready to Skype his proxies back home. Hmmmm...

>>> promise to pay rubber tappers 120% of market price

>>> Promise to pay orchardists more than market rate, even if they're fruit is rotting (p.s. Thaksin already did that, when he was PM and ordered over-ripe fruit flown on AF jets to Thai embassies in Europe.)

>>> A laptop computer for every Red Shirt

>>> A new SUV for every Pu Yai Ban who delivers 90+% Red votes from his village residents.

>>> Free 1st class Thai Airway tickets to any politician who jets to where he (Thaksin) is, and grovels at his feet. Includes 1st class hotel accommodations.

>>> Free T-shirt, 500 baht, and case of caffeine drinks for each Red Shirt who shows up at the next "Let's Commandeer Bangkok" rally.

[MaxYakov]

"Viroj Jiratikanchote, chairman of the TCC's committee on economic development of the Northern region, said the northern economy would see slow growth this year due mainly on the impact of the earthquake on the tourism sector. The tourism industry is expected to see this year's revenue decline by Bt4.6 billion, or 4.6 per cent, from the previous forecast of Bt94.6 billion." - Article

Not that I necessarily believe anything I read here, but I'm mildly surprised that they didn't blame the revenue decline on Global Climate Change. Maybe some creative "scientist" can blame the earthquake on it. If they think the 4.6 per cent tourist industry decline is significant, wait until the numbers from this coup/junta/curfew combo (except in Koh Sumui, of course - they're apparently special along with some other tourist spots). But this can't be helping the Bangkok economy. Sorry, I was all riced-out.

Edited May 27, 2014 by MaxYakov

[Traveller45]

Sorry for dumb question. What business of a Government is it anyway to buy rice from farmers?

Edited May 27, 2014 by Traveller45

[Alwyn]

Can somebody explain something to me please (really!). I'm not a political scientist or a law grad so maybe I just don't understand but I remember reading here a few days ago (Friday maybe?) that the rice farmers would be paid on Monday? The government has been toppled rightly or wrongly and the senate disbanded and the military is in total control of the country. Does the military have a Finance Ministry?

[Roel]

Sorry for dumb question. What business of a Government is it anyway to buy rice from farmers?

To understand replace 'rice' with 'votes'.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Can somebody explain something to me please (really!). I'm not a political scientist or a law grad so maybe I just don't understand but I remember reading here a few days ago (Friday maybe?) that the rice farmers would be paid on Monday? The government has been toppled rightly or wrongly and the senate disbanded and the military is in total control of the country. Does the military have a Finance Ministry?

No, but Thailand does.

[Alwyn]

Can somebody explain something to me please (really!). I'm not a political scientist or a law grad so maybe I just don't understand but I remember reading here a few days ago (Friday maybe?) that the rice farmers would be paid on Monday? The government has been toppled rightly or wrongly and the senate disbanded and the military is in total control of the country. Does the military have a Finance Ministry?

No, but Thailand does.

Steve (?) I wasn't being facetious or anything but the senate and parliament has been dissolved, I'm not understanding how there are ministries for anything

[SICHONSTEVE]

Can somebody explain something to me please (really!). I'm not a political scientist or a law grad so maybe I just don't understand but I remember reading here a few days ago (Friday maybe?) that the rice farmers would be paid on Monday? The government has been toppled rightly or wrongly and the senate disbanded and the military is in total control of the country. Does the military have a Finance Ministry?

No, but Thailand does.

Steve (?) I wasn't being facetious or anything but the senate and parliament has been dissolved, I'm not understanding how there are ministries for anything

Sorry, didn't mean to sound demeaning!!

OK, even though the personnel running the ministries (cabinet ministers and their assistants) have been removed the ministries do not disappear - they are relying on the civil servants that operate the departments to carry on as usual to ensure that everything (the workings of government) continues to run unimpeded, as before.