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Retirement in Krabi.


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Can I ask you knowledgable folk on here a couple of questions please?...........

I am heading out your way soon with the plan of retirement for a few years, I am over 50. My intention is a Non-Immigrant 'O' Visa - Multiple entry to see how things go. I will produce my retirement pension docs with my application.

Q1. I have UK state pension (£690) and a private pension (£320), both are paid into the bank every 4 weeks making 13 payments per year. Are the calculations done over the 12 months or the 13 payments. Either way it makes me a tad short of the minimum requirement so I will have to have a cushion in the bank to make it up.

Q2. I have an investment that I started about 5 years ago that produces me a quarterly income of £900. It was always intended to be a top-up for my pension.

Will this be allowed to count towards my total monthly income as it essentially gives me an extra £300 per month on top of my 2 pensions.

Many thanks in anticipation of your replies.

Proof on income is to my knowledge (never used it, as I use the fixed full 800k deposit instead) an annual letter from your (British) embassy confirming your income when renewing the retirement extension of your Non Immigrant visa. It's the embassy who states the income. Summing up your stated income – (320+690 x 12) + (900 x 4) = 15,720 x 50 = 786,000 – you are just around the 800k, safe if exchange rate of 1£ equals 51baht or more. However, you can use the combination method, which is some money in a Thai bank (12m fixed deposit best for higher interest) and the confirmation letter of income for the remaining amount, i.e. having some 100+k in deposit should make you clear. Also, it is always good to have instant access to some extra “rainy day account” money when staying in Thailand.

Thankyou khunPer you reply helps me greatly. I am pleased and relieved that my investment income will be taken into account too.

Thanks.
I wish to add, that you better check with the British embassy, as that how it works to my knowledge, but I’m not British. Perhaps other British TV-members can confirm.
I also want to say, that if you can afford it, do place some funds in a Thai bank fixed deposit. I know it’s a low interest, around 2½% p.a. for 12 month, but that may lift you from some hassle every year when renewing your retirement extension, and it’s advisable always to have instant access to extra fund in Thailand in case of accident or illness (depending of your health insurance situation). There is a 15% withholding tax on the interest, which you may be able to claim back. You can cash out the interest annually from the deposit. You can cash money out at any time before the end of a fixed term period, for example 12 month, but you loose the interest on that amount.
smile.png

Thanks again kuhnPer. I do have enough funds to put the full amount into the bank but I am trying to avoid doing so as I have heard and read some horror stories with regard to getting it back out of the country if needed. I will though take your advice and put some 'rainy day' funds in. Thanks again.

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Actually you need working permit for non payed volunteer work. There is also a special visa for it

So our management company that operates 150 condo buildings in various parts of Thailand was in error registering me with the land office (or I was) to have served my building? I therefore endangered my retirement visa with unpaid volunteer work? They with a full legal department at their disposal don't know as much as you?

Sounds like an excuse to die on a barstool. I do hope you clean up all those lawbreaking Rotary Club Members!

This may add information to expose this myth. Work for Father Ray or something won't you?

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/forums/asia-thailand/topics/canadian-thailand-for-volunteering-visa-questions

Mai pen rai!

A link to Lonely Planets question as a proof you have the right Visa and WP :) That's funny. Since when is Lonely Planet experts on WP & Thai visa?

I believe that visas which do not allow for the applicants to work prohibit all kinds of working activities, even if it is unpaid such as volunteer work.

Here is the relevant text ;

"The term work in Thai law is defined very broadly, covering both physical and mental activities, whether or not for wages or other form of compensation. Even volunteer or charity work requires a work permit in Thailand."

Here is the full link, and it's not from Lonely Planet; http://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/working-thailand.php

Therefore if you are doing any sort of work for your condo building without the correct visa/permit then you have breached the terms of your retirement visa. You won't be deported or executed, but you might be fined. The fact that they have registered you should really be reason for you to be concerned. In terms of the knowledge of their legal department they either don't know about regulations concerning foreign visas since their legal department would be more concerned with corporate Law, or more likely they don't really care.

The link I have posted is from a source which is aware of the Law and what is acceptable.

Personally I was once approached by a big firm to do some work of this nature as a volunteer and was assured that I didn't need a work permit, they had cards printed and all sorts. I've been here long enough to never trust what I am told and got my lawyer on the case. I found out that I had been told complete rubbish that to do any kind of work paid or unpaid is illegal unless you have a specific work permit.

I also despise bar stool experts but this is from the horses mouth and you should deal with this as you feel appropriate ! Good luck.

SDM

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GDP per capita in Thailand is over USD 10000 (PPP). Whilst there are many poor people in Thailand there is also a very large middle class earning more than this figure

I guess most Westerners lifestyles will equate with this second group rather than trying to prove they can live like the first group

Once you start throwing in expenses like running a car, subscribing to Satellite TV and internet, etc., expenses in Thailand are up there with the rest of them. Of course you don't have to run a car, can rent a single room and eat frugally buying stuff in the local markets. I would like a few of these Western creature comforts in my old age. If you can do without them good on you!

38K Bath per month may be possible now if you are extremely careful, not a lot of room for leisure already.

But I wouldn't advise you to take the risk considering exchange rate fluctuations, rising prices of everything in Thailand, possible health issues, changing visa regulations, etc.

Personally, I wouldn't attempt it,...unless I was fluent in Thai, and had at least a few connections, such as a Thai that held you in great esteem. In Chiang Mai, 38k baht is about the average monthly income for Thai folk (like a taxi driver), who live like Thai's, and are part of extended families. For a farang (a term that merely means Westerner), it is not so easy get Thai prices on goods and services unless you are seen as an integrated resident,...which includes dressing like a Thai, and having a fundamental understanding of their Buddhist culture. Chiang Rai or Nong Khai would likely be easier, price wise,...but from Bangkok and south,...you'd best have 60k baht+ per month for a no-frills, austere retirement.

From what I've noticed....foreigners who respect the Thai culture, ie., refrain from wearing beach clothes unless they're at the beach,...have a lower cost of living than farang pushing their cultures onto the Thai.

This is wildly inaccurate. 38k is at least three times what the typical working class guy makes a month, even in Bangkok, and 60k a month is great for a comfortable life, even in Bangkok, even for a Westerner. You've got a problem with mathematics or with reality, one or the other.

I also think the average Thai makes considerably less than 38K per month. Assuming you make the Thai minimum wage of 300 baht per day and you work 30 days per month that works out to 9000 Baht per month. If you were to assume that most people make double the minimum wage that is still less than 18,000 per month (not many people work every day of the month). I do think it would be difficult for most westerners to make it on less than 20K Baht per month, for very long.

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The OP has indicated that he will be in receipt of a state pension. That being the case there is no visa problem, he is eligible for a multi entry Non-Imm O visa with his state pension, irrespective of the amount.

The main point to be considered is accommodation and if the home in UK is given up or not. I have my own home in Thailand and can live quite comfortably on my state pension.

As many have said one of the big concerns is healthcare. I have no insurance and pay for treatment as and when. If anything serious were to arise I would have to consider returning to the UK for treatment.

I have been here for over 5 years and am still a UK resident paying tax in the UK. The HMRC does not collect tax from pensions paid in Thailand, if you owe tax it is collected by other means. I have a small pension paid in the UK and all tax is taken from that.

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How do you receive £163 pw when the max UK pension is currently £113? I think you will find it difficult to live on UK pension only.

Not true. You are referring to the basic state pension. My state pension has 5 components.

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The maximum UK state pension is currently GBP 113.10 pw, assuming you have paid full contributions, but fixed at that rate forever in Thailand (no cost of living increase).

So where does your GBP 163 pw come from?

I reached 65 years old in 2011 (three years ago) and receive the maximum UK pension fixed at GBP 105.48 pw (which includes a small amount for "graduated" pension).

As you see, the value of the UK pension in Thailand will decrease over time considering inflation. Will it be worth anything in 20-years time?

You obviously opted out of SERPS and are receiving those contributions by some other means.

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The OP has indicated that he will be in receipt of a state pension. That being the case there is no visa problem, he is eligible for a multi entry Non-Imm O visa with his state pension, irrespective of the amount.

To be clear are saying that the income requirements of a Thai Retirement Visa of 800, 000 baht in a Thai bank account for over two months, or an monthly income of 65,000 baht become redundant if the person ireceives a State Pension of any amount ? I find this hard to believe since these pensions depend on contribution history so someone could be on a reduced state pension, which might be a very small amount.

SDM

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Actually you need working permit for non payed volunteer work. There is also a special visa for it

So our management company that operates 150 condo buildings in various parts of Thailand was in error registering me with the land office (or I was) to have served my building? I therefore endangered my retirement visa with unpaid volunteer work? They with a full legal department at their disposal don't know as much as you?

Sounds like an excuse to die on a barstool. I do hope you clean up all those lawbreaking Rotary Club Members!

This may add information to expose this myth. Work for Father Ray or something won't you?

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/forums/asia-thailand/topics/canadian-thailand-for-volunteering-visa-questions

Mai pen rai!

A link to Lonely Planets question as a proof you have the right Visa and WP smile.png That's funny. Since when is Lonely Planet experts on WP & Thai visa?

I believe that visas which do not allow for the applicants to work prohibit all kinds of working activities, even if it is unpaid such as volunteer work.

Here is the relevant text ;

"The term work in Thai law is defined very broadly, covering both physical and mental activities, whether or not for wages or other form of compensation. Even volunteer or charity work requires a work permit in Thailand."

Here is the full link, and it's not from Lonely Planet; http://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/working-thailand.php

Therefore if you are doing any sort of work for your condo building without the correct visa/permit then you have breached the terms of your retirement visa. You won't be deported or executed, but you might be fined. The fact that they have registered you should really be reason for you to be concerned. In terms of the knowledge of their legal department they either don't know about regulations concerning foreign visas since their legal department would be more concerned with corporate Law, or more likely they don't really care.

The link I have posted is from a source which is aware of the Law and what is acceptable.

Personally I was once approached by a big firm to do some work of this nature as a volunteer and was assured that I didn't need a work permit, they had cards printed and all sorts. I've been here long enough to never trust what I am told and got my lawyer on the case. I found out that I had been told complete rubbish that to do any kind of work paid or unpaid is illegal unless you have a specific work permit.

I also despise bar stool experts but this is from the horses mouth and you should deal with this as you feel appropriate ! Good luck.

SDM

When have you ever known an attorney who was not happy to give you an opinion for money? I presume then that the full farang committee of five in my building including the juristic person will be paying a fine. Of course we could have nothing but Thai citizens on committee and hope the building gets maintained to the original standard. TIT there is "formal law" and accepted practice here. If you have a skill people want, and are willing to share it, volunteer or teach if that is your skill. The course requirements for teaching English prefer a Western college graduate and a five week course which costs 35K baht which includes theory, homework, in school monitoring etc. etc. No one asks for a work permit because you have something Thailand needs and wants badly to meet (sort of) the ASEAN requirement to be bilingual as soon as possible. Nothing on the list you provide (except accountancy) requires anything beyond the pathetic matium six. (high school) Foreigners do not come to Thailand to "make a Budda image" for goodness sakes! But a Rotarian will be a Rotarian everywhere they go. Still, this is probably not helpful to the OP anyway and I will retire from encouraging the farang to leave their self centered pleasures. Be certain not to volunteer money to a charity either unless you have a work permit.

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.......... I have no insurance and pay for treatment as and when. If anything serious were to arise I would have to consider returning to the UK for treatment .

I have two observations, my second assumes you would wish to use the NHS;

1. This is all very well but does not allow for an accident or illness that would prevent you from travelling.

2. "People who do not normally live in this country are not automatically entitled to use the NHS free of charge - regardless of their nationality or whether they hold a British passport or have lived and paid national insurance contributions in this country in the past. This includes British Citizens who are no longer resident in the UK. "

For the full text please see ; http://www.nnuh.nhs.uk/Dept.asp?ID=365

SDM

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.....Be certain not to volunteer money to a charity either unless you have a work permit.

They can do what they want with their money, but they should not break the Law, which is extremely specific on this point. It's not the charities fault of course either.

Just because I have highlighted the Law on working for free it doesn't mean I agree with it. I'm sure following the 2004 Tsunami which saw thousands of foreigners coming over to help with restoration, the immigration police weren't lining up to deport them.

My concern is different, I do not want to give the authorities an excuse to fine us.

But to be clear, anyone working, whether for free or a wage without a work permit, has broken the terms of their visa and the Law. They are liable to be fined or even deported if the immigration authorities decide to do so. It's not a matter of my opinion, or a lawyer's, the Law is absolutely crystal clear.

SDM

Edited by SDM0712
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My advice stay where you are there's plenty of us here know maybe after we get rid of some of these Russians then move here. But do as some have mentioned come for 3 to 6 months get a feel of the place don't buy right off cause it is hard to resell here. Then once your sure by then you would have all the facts for your situation. Be informed before with your choice.

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The OP has indicated that he will be in receipt of a state pension. That being the case there is no visa problem, he is eligible for a multi entry Non-Imm O visa with his state pension, irrespective of the amount.

The main point to be considered is accommodation and if the home in UK is given up or not. I have my own home in Thailand and can live quite comfortably on my state pension.

As many have said one of the big concerns is healthcare. I have no insurance and pay for treatment as and when. If anything serious were to arise I would have to consider returning to the UK for treatment.

I have been here for over 5 years and am still a UK resident paying tax in the UK. The HMRC does not collect tax from pensions paid in Thailand, if you owe tax it is collected by other means. I have a small pension paid in the UK and all tax is taken from that.

Yes he will get a non O multiple from UK. But he can't live in Thailand with that. He can probably get about 14-15 months out of that. But do you like him to go back to UK once a year to get a new visa? Especially with his tight budget. He need an extension of stay to live here.

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The OP has indicated that he will be in receipt of a state pension. That being the case there is no visa problem, he is eligible for a multi entry Non-Imm O visa with his state pension, irrespective of the amount.

To be clear are saying that the income requirements of a Thai Retirement Visa of 800, 000 baht in a Thai bank account for over two months, or an monthly income of 65,000 baht become redundant if the person ireceives a State Pension of any amount ? I find this hard to believe since these pensions depend on contribution history so someone could be on a reduced state pension, which might be a very small amount.

SDM

You are talking about the O-A visa, not the same thing.

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Actually you need working permit for non payed volunteer work. There is also a special visa for it

So our management company that operates 150 condo buildings in various parts of Thailand was in error registering me with the land office (or I was) to have served my building? I therefore endangered my retirement visa with unpaid volunteer work? They with a full legal department at their disposal don't know as much as you?

Sounds like an excuse to die on a barstool. I do hope you clean up all those lawbreaking Rotary Club Members!

This may add information to expose this myth. Work for Father Ray or something won't you?

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/forums/asia-thailand/topics/canadian-thailand-for-volunteering-visa-questions

Mai pen rai!

You are not allowed to work with your retirement visa. Not unpaid work either.

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.......... I have no insurance and pay for treatment as and when. If anything serious were to arise I would have to consider returning to the UK for treatment .

I have two observations, my second assumes you would wish to use the NHS;

1. This is all very well but does not allow for an accident or illness that would prevent you from travelling.

2. "People who do not normally live in this country are not automatically entitled to use the NHS free of charge - regardless of their nationality or whether they hold a British passport or have lived and paid national insurance contributions in this country in the past. This includes British Citizens who are no longer resident in the UK. "

For the full text please see ; http://www.nnuh.nhs.uk/Dept.asp?ID=365

SDM

Point one I am well of.

Point 2 is your interpretation of "resident". I am a UK tax resident, domicile does not come into it. I receive a repeat prescription from my GP every 6 months.

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