Is this really the American Way?

[wilcopops]

This company appears to operate with comparative impunity in Thailand........

Amway executive arrested in India

William S. Pinckney, chairman and chief executive officer of Amway India, was arrested last week on charges stemming from a consumer complaint alleging unethical circulation of money through the company's operations (essentially a pyramid scheme). Amway India, which has been selling personal and home care, products, dietary supplements, and cosmetics since 1998, is a subsidiary of the $11.9-billion-a-year U.S. firm Amway Corp. A year ago, Pinckney and two company directors were arrested on charges of violating India's Prize Chits and Money Circulation Schemes (Banning) Act. Last January, Amway global president Doug DeVos said during an interview that his industry hopes to make its messages clearer and simpler to its stakeholders in India and persuade government authorities that it is a bona fide business that should not be confused with pyramid schemes. In response to Pinckney's second arrest, the company suggested that it may have stemmed from a "lack of understanding" about how the business works. [Amway executive Bill Pinckney arrested in India. Detroit Free Press, May 29, 2014]

Edited June 10, 2014 by wilcopops

[Berkshire]

Amway IS a pyramid scheme where only a tiny few actually make any real money. But from past discussions of this topic on this forum, there appears to be a few TV folks who either sell Amway or have wife/family who does. They may not like my characterization.

[NeverSure]

Amway isn't a pyramid scheme and that's been ruled consistently by courts in many countries.

However it is a business where a few will make a lot of money, some more will make less money, and a few will fail and quit. But isn't that like any other business startup?

With a pure pyramid scheme the last ones in must lose because there isn't an ongoing market. The only thing being sold is into the pyramid.

But Amway has many, many quality products for its people to sell, and many don't get involved in trying to convert new people, but just make money selling the products. Of course the people who signed them up get a percentage of what they sell too.

But it's the array of very good products that people sell that generates the cash flow and some people do that for life. Many develop a lot of repeat customers and make a good living.

I wouldn't get involved because I don't like that kind of work but it's not a scam.

And thanks for lumping the whole of America into what you don't approve of, even though you don't know a damn thing about it.

[AYJAYDEE]

Amway isn't a pyramid scheme and that's been ruled consistently by courts in many countries.

However it is a business where a few will make a lot of money, some more will make less money, and a few will fail and quit. But isn't that like any other business startup?

With a pure pyramid scheme the last ones in must lose because there isn't an ongoing market. The only thing being sold is into the pyramid.

But Amway has many, many quality products for its people to sell, and many don't get involved in trying to convert new people, but just make money selling the products. Of course the people who signed them up get a percentage of what they sell too.

But it's the array of very good products that people sell that generates the cash flow and some people do that for life. Many develop a lot of repeat customers and make a good living.

I wouldn't get involved because I don't like that kind of work but it's not a scam.

And thanks for lumping the whole of America into what you don't approve of, even though you don't know a damn thing about it.

MLM COMPANY³ Approximate percentage ofMLM participants who

LOSE MONEY⁴ (spend more than they receive) Approx. percentage who realize a profit⁴ after all expenses AMWAY/QUIXTAR 99.99% 0.01% RENAISSANCE (RTTP) - defunct 99.98% 0.02% NIKKEN 99.98% 0.02% SYMMETRY 99.96% 0.04% CYBERWIZE 99.94% 0.06% NUSKIN/ PHARMANEX/

BIG PLANET/ ETC. 99.94% 0.06% TELCOM CO. - defunct 99.92% 0.08% ARBONNE 99.92% 0.08% RELIV 99.90% 0.10% MELALEUCA 99.87% 0.13% FREE LIFE 99.69% 0.31% HERBALIFE 99.42% 0.58%

http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/research/mlm-statistics/shocking-stats/

[Seastallion]

Amway isn't a pyramid scheme and that's been ruled consistently by courts in many countries.

However it is a business where a few will make a lot of money, some more will make less money, and a few will fail and quit. But isn't that like any other business startup?

With a pure pyramid scheme the last ones in must lose because there isn't an ongoing market. The only thing being sold is into the pyramid.

But Amway has many, many quality products for its people to sell, and many don't get involved in trying to convert new people, but just make money selling the products. Of course the people who signed them up get a percentage of what they sell too.

But it's the array of very good products that people sell that generates the cash flow and some people do that for life. Many develop a lot of repeat customers and make a good living.

I wouldn't get involved because I don't like that kind of work but it's not a scam.

And thanks for lumping the whole of America into what you don't approve of, even though you don't know a damn thing about it.

Correct, except you've been quite generous in describing the the "few that will make less" and where it gets pyramidal is in the cash outlay at the start.

Amway rep signs me up after I hand over the cash, shows me true stories of multi-millionaires who have made it. He fails to mention that in order for me to make a decent living, I have to sell A LOT of product AND get others signed up under me. If my city is saturated with low-level reps, I will not sell much product and I will not sign up newcomers. Ultimately, I do a lot of running around before I finally fail, and say goodbye to that cash outlay.

[Seastallion]

I thought AMWAY was not the "American Way" but derived from John 14:6 "I am the way..."

Pretty sure it has it's origins in Bible Belt America.

[PHP87]

I thought Amway was a Canadian company or at least founded in CA

Either way, MLM companies are scams.

I looked into a few during the 1980's as a way of making extra money and they basically exist of selling very overpriced products and "recruiting" friends, family, co-workers, people you went to High School with, etc...even cold calling people out of the phone book! "Greetings, I'm doing a survey..." would be the hook and once you got them to do the "survey" you would then ask them how would they like to save x amount of money per month on whatever crap you were selling.

Needless to say, I didn't spend/invest a cent on any of these MLM's.

[NeverSure]

"A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public." Link

It's not a pyramid scheme. Call it something else, but it's not.

[AYJAYDEE]

"A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public." Link

It's not a pyramid scheme. Call it something else, but it's not.

its a pyramid scheme

[David48]

Do you know what ... I care naught ...

.

[Berkshire]

"A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public." Link

It's not a pyramid scheme. Call it something else, but it's not.

You're talking semantics. We can say then that it operates very much like a pyramid scheme, although perhaps through some loopholes, they've been able to get away with it for a long time.

By the way, I've known several people who used to sell Amway. Note the words "used to" as none of them continue to do it today. And I've attended their seminars--very much like one of those timeshare seminars. More similar to a religious cult, actually. Anyways, some folks (read Neversure) get rather emotional about this so I'll stay out of it. But I wouldn't recommend Amway to family or friends.

[Berkshire]

Amway isn't a pyramid scheme and that's been ruled consistently by courts in many countries.

However it is a business where a few will make a lot of money, some more will make less money, and a few will fail and quit. But isn't that like any other business startup?

With a pure pyramid scheme the last ones in must lose because there isn't an ongoing market. The only thing being sold is into the pyramid.

But Amway has many, many quality products for its people to sell, and many don't get involved in trying to convert new people, but just make money selling the products. Of course the people who signed them up get a percentage of what they sell too.

But it's the array of very good products that people sell that generates the cash flow and some people do that for life. Many develop a lot of repeat customers and make a good living.

I wouldn't get involved because I don't like that kind of work but it's not a scam.

And thanks for lumping the whole of America into what you don't approve of, even though you don't know a damn thing about it.

MLM COMPANY³ Approximate percentage ofMLM participants who

LOSE MONEY⁴ (spend more than they receive) Approx. percentage who realize a profit⁴ after all expenses AMWAY/QUIXTAR 99.99% 0.01% RENAISSANCE (RTTP) - defunct 99.98% 0.02% NIKKEN 99.98% 0.02% SYMMETRY 99.96% 0.04% CYBERWIZE 99.94% 0.06% NUSKIN/ PHARMANEX/

BIG PLANET/ ETC. 99.94% 0.06% TELCOM CO. - defunct 99.92% 0.08% ARBONNE 99.92% 0.08% RELIV 99.90% 0.10% MELALEUCA 99.87% 0.13% FREE LIFE 99.69% 0.31% HERBALIFE 99.42% 0.58%

http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/research/mlm-statistics/shocking-stats/

Very telling link. Perhaps Neversure can explain how 99.99% of participants in this scheme can lose money and still not be a scam?

[wilcopops]

"A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public." Link

It's not a pyramid scheme. Call it something else, but it's not.

Anyone defending Amway, one has to consider the suitability of the designation "sucker!"

Edited June 10, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Amway isn't a pyramid scheme and that's been ruled consistently by courts in many countries.

However it is a business where a few will make a lot of money, some more will make less money, and a few will fail and quit. But isn't that like any other business startup?

With a pure pyramid scheme the last ones in must lose because there isn't an ongoing market. The only thing being sold is into the pyramid.

But Amway has many, many quality products for its people to sell, and many don't get involved in trying to convert new people, but just make money selling the products. Of course the people who signed them up get a percentage of what they sell too.

But it's the array of very good products that people sell that generates the cash flow and some people do that for life. Many develop a lot of repeat customers and make a good living.

I wouldn't get involved because I don't like that kind of work but it's not a scam.

And thanks for lumping the whole of America into what you don't approve of, even though you don't know a damn thing about it.

Amway isn't a pyramid scheme and that's been ruled consistently by courts in many countries. - NOPE

[wilcopops]

Amway IS a pyramid scheme where only a tiny few actually make any real money. But from past discussions of this topic on this forum, there appears to be a few TV folks who either sell Amway or have wife/family who does. They may not like my characterization.

Amway preys on whole families and uses strong psychological methods to cajole or shame people to staying with them. They send folks round to houses of those who are dissatisfied to do this......so it is VERY VERY hard for those who became inoled to admit they have been duped.....it is vey much akin to those unfortunates who get sucked into cults.

[wilcopops]

"A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public." Link

It's not a pyramid scheme. Call it something else, but it's not.

You're talking semantics. We can say then that it operates very much like a pyramid scheme, although perhaps through some loopholes, they've been able to get away with it for a long time.

By the way, I've known several people who used to sell Amway. Note the words "used to" as none of them continue to do it today. And I've attended their seminars--very much like one of those timeshare seminars. More similar to a religious cult, actually. Anyways, some folks (read Neversure) get rather emotional about this so I'll stay out of it. But I wouldn't recommend Amway to family or friends.

I first became aware of them bcd in the 80s and as my job involved dealing with conmen and the like I instantly recognised the methods......... unfortunately some of my acquaintances didn't and got burned......... like good con artists they constantly work on their act, to change the appearance - chameleon-like - of the same basic scam so it can be rolled out again and again without being easily recognised. e.g. people thinking it isn't a pyramid scheme.

[muchogra]

The few people I know, including my sister-in-law, who've joined Amway, Herballife etc do not actually work on selling to make a living. Rather, they buy the products at a discount for their own use. Like someone has mentioned, Amway does have some good products, the silicon wax for cars is one.

[Seastallion]

"A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public." Link

It's not a pyramid scheme. Call it something else, but it's not.

Technically you're right. But as I pointed out, the pyramidal bit of it is the cash outlay from people that will never recoup their money.

When you look at it as MLM, it certainly is, but when you consider that those joining have to pay something (and probably never get it back), then it is a pyramid.

It's just a bigger pyramid....eventually a neighbourhood, town, city, becomes saturated and that outlay from the bottom tiers is a waste of their money that goes to the top; A pyramid.

[lomatopo]

Seems like an American invention: Multi-level marketing: Tupperware, Fuller Brush, Avon, Mary Kay....

Amway co-founder Richard DeVos owns, among other things, the Orlando Magic of the NBA.

Herbalife is similarly challenged.

[Thakkar]

"A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public." Link

It's not a pyramid scheme. Call it something else, but it's not.

It sure walks and quacks like one. But you're right. Strictly speaking, it's not a pyramid scheme. Though it is a close facsimile.

T

[NeverSure]

"A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public." Link

It's not a pyramid scheme. Call it something else, but it's not.

its a pyramid scheme

"A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public." Link

It's not a pyramid scheme. Call it something else, but it's not.

You're talking semantics. We can say then that it operates very much like a pyramid scheme, although perhaps through some loopholes, they've been able to get away with it for a long time.

By the way, I've known several people who used to sell Amway. Note the words "used to" as none of them continue to do it today. And I've attended their seminars--very much like one of those timeshare seminars. More similar to a religious cult, actually. Anyways, some folks (read Neversure) get rather emotional about this so I'll stay out of it. But I wouldn't recommend Amway to family or friends.

I don't like Amway and would never join. But I'd have to be illiterate to call it a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes don't sell any product other than the scheme until the last sucker loses, and by definition they can't last. Amway stresses selling product and that's how Amway makes money.

It's multilevel marketing which I wouldn't want to do, but I'm not illiterate enough to call it a pyramid scheme.

[Chonburiram]

The few people I know, including my sister-in-law, who've joined Amway, Herballife etc do not actually work on selling to make a living. Rather, they buy the products at a discount for their own use. Like someone has mentioned, Amway does have some good products, the silicon wax for cars is one.

And I thought i'm the only one... Amway silicon wax user for over 15 years, never bought another Amway product, get it from people like you described, no hardcore sellers.

[CaptHaddock]

Amway executive arrested in India

William S. Pinckney, chairman and chief executive officer of Amway India, was arrested last week on charges stemming from a consumer complaint alleging unethical circulation of money through the company's operations (essentially a pyramid scheme). Amway India, which has been selling personal and home care, products, dietary supplements, and cosmetics since 1998, is a subsidiary of the $11.9-billion-a-year U.S. firm Amway Corp.

The image of Mr. Pinckney rotting in an Indian jail just makes my day.

[PHP87]

The few people I know, including my sister-in-law, who've joined Amway, Herballife etc do not actually work on selling to make a living. Rather, they buy the products at a discount for their own use. Like someone has mentioned, Amway does have some good products, the silicon wax for cars is one.

You don't want to wax your car, you want to use a polish. Polish removes minor scratches while wax just fills them in.

And body shops hate silicon products as they are difficult to remove and paint won't stick.

[wilcopops]

Their products ae no better than anything else....Many years ago, I actually had a brass cleaner that must have broken all sorts of h&e regulations - it was just basically acid in a paste....... I'd be very wary about buying any of their stuff again.

Anyway there's perfectly good (or better) equivalents on the market so why buy from that bunch of ne'er-do-wells?

Edited June 12, 2014 by wilcopops