Buying land in Isaan

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^,

if he goes to the local land/planning office Or Bor Tor and gets planning permission there would be no need for the house to be dismantled.

As has been pointed out, many of these houses are built illegaly with no planning permission.

As has also been pointed out, much of this is gov't land, wait until the gov't decides to put a road through your property.

There is nothing wrong with the Thai land laws, the problems arise when people try to circumvent them.

If the OP goes ahead and buys, the first thing I would do is put a fence round whatever I had bought, I would also install chanot style concrete markers before i even parted with money, I would also ensure the neighbours had no claim to whatever land I bought, I would also take GPS coordinates and have all the details lodged with the poo yai baan.

Love these upgrading to chanot stories, can anyone anywhere tell me of any instance when gov't land was upgraded to chanot status?

[Kripe]

Although not ideal, I would not let it put you off.

A few things to consider: Is the land on offer in or close to your village? Does your inlays know the person who is selling? Are they family, friends or just distant friends?

What does your village head man say?

And now, just being a sticky beak - how much is the land and what is its location?

Land is in Nong khai, 300,000 baht. Small money really but when you build a house at say 2 million is it going to be taken away one day?

Always a risk

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If in the village and proper papers 300K is ok, but if outside the village 300K is far too much.

Have a look here and determine what kind of paper comes with the land.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/knowledge/thailand-land-title-deeds.html

[watso63]

This seems to be "the never ending story" in Thailand. Why can't the foreigner understand that he can't buy land in Thailand? My advive is to STAY AWAY from whatever kind of land they are selling. And be aware of that you have to sign a paper at the Land Office that says the money for the land doesn't come from you.

Sound advice for anyone that can't afford to walk away if they get bandited. I like the roller coaster life in Thailand. I have bought two parcels of Chanote land for my TGF. One has the house which I built and live in on it and the other is directly to one side, which has already got Hom Mali Rice growing in it. I plan on eventually building an al fresco style restaurant on that to give work to my TGF's mother and sister. I also want to experiment by improving the soil to see what type of veggies I can grow as I have access to an all year water suppy. I am also in the process of paying off the old mans debts to the BAAC and other money lenders in exchange for the transfer of 10 Rai of Sor Por Kor land (we hold the original document) and a large excavated pond (just under 300,000Thb) into the TGF's name.

I have been with her two years and life is good. I want her to be financially comfortable and secure after I kick the bucket. I also have a condo which will be completed this year, which I intend to register in her name as the owner, with a thirty year lease in my name.

Even if I lose all this I will still be comfortably off, but life is too short to worry about what if's all the time.

With regards to the OP, 300,000Thb for 1 Rai of land, even with a Chanote is not cheap, unless it is in a good position. Just hope your other half doesn't sulk too much if you say no. If you say yes, then you may soon find other bargain deals coming your way. Take care.

[hgma]

300.000 in nongKhai?

town or village?

who is offering?

and why?

[stgrhe]

Land Titles in Thailand

There are six different types of title deed in Thailand and it is essential to obtain correct information on the deeds to any property you intend to purchase.

The Chanote and the Nor Sor Sam Kor are the only titles deeds over which a register able right of ownership or lease can exist, and are as such the only ones that prudent purchasers should consider.

Chanot (Nor Sor 4)

Freehold title with the owner able to leave the land unattended. An individual named upon a title deed, may use the title as proof of ownership in all legal undertakings and with the authorities Title deeds are registered at the Land Department in the province in which the land is located, and there is no waiting time required to transfer title however sub-division of the titled plot to more than nine sub-plots must follow the Land Allotment Law, Section 286.

Chanote titles are accurately surveyed, plotted in relation to a national survey grid and also marked by unique numbered marker posts set in the ground. It is the long term goal of the Land Department, that all land in Thailand will be covered under the Chanote title system.

Nor Sor 3 Gor

This certifies that the person named on the certificate has the confirmed right to use the land, implying all requirements for the issuance of title deed have been met, and issuance of the title deed is pending. They may be sold, leased, used as mortgage collateral etc. The holder of this certificate cannot leave the land unattended for more than 12 years.

With this documentation the land area is defined with parcel points and is accurately mapped, showing adjoining plots on a map using a standard scale of 1:5000. Land with this type of documentation may be sub-divided and legal acts need not be publicised.

Nor Sor 3

Similar to the above Confirmed Certificate of Use except that not all of the formalities to certify the right to use have been performed. Before a transfer can be made, a notice of intent must be posted and then 30 days public notice is necessary before any change of status over the land can be registered.

No parcel points are marked and it is issued upon a specific plot with no frame of reference to connecting plots. Problems can occur when attempting to verify the actual land area of such plots covered by this documentation.

Sor Kor Nung

This recognises that a person is in possession of land but the Certificate does not imply that there are any rights associated which the possession. Land with this documentation cannot be bought or sold, and may only be transferred to the direct heirs of the person who holds it

Por. Bor. Tor 6

This is documentation that all land must have in order for a tax number to be issued and tax to be paid upon the benefits of the land. It does not in anyway infer title, ownership or possessory right of the land, only that it has been assessed as taxable.

Sor Kor 1

This is the form required to notify the government of a possessory claim to a piece of land. This was introduced in December 1954 and was used by the government to verify claims upon the land with the eventual issuance of Nor. Sor 3 or Nor. Sor. 3 Gor certification.

[lineofentry]

It makes no difference to a falang if the land has papers or not, it's cheaper without so save money and get it.

[MonkeyLoo]

Thanks all. Some good info there. I will investigate further.

The land is 2klms from town on the edge of a golf course, which is why it appealed to me.

We know the lady selling it. she has a restaurant nearby, friend of my wife. She tells us she needs the money.

The asking price is 300,000. A bit much i think but im sure she will negotiate.

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[HUAHIN62]

Does the land have no papers ? Then the answer is no, because you don't know if the people selling you the land have the right to do so. Most land have some form of papers, don't need to be Chanote. Visit the land office and get more info on the ownership/usage rights of this land, before you decide.

[Issangeorge]

^^^^,

if he goes to the local land/planning office Or Bor Tor and gets planning permission there would be no need for the house to be dismantled.

As has been pointed out, many of these houses are built illegaly with no planning permission.

As has also been pointed out, much of this is gov't land, wait until the gov't decides to put a road through your property.

There is nothing wrong with the Thai land laws, the problems arise when people try to circumvent them.

If the OP goes ahead and buys, the first thing I would do is put a fence round whatever I had bought, I would also install chanot style concrete markers before i even parted with money, I would also ensure the neighbours had no claim to whatever land I bought, I would also take GPS coordinates and have all the details lodged with the poo yai baan.

Love these upgrading to chanot stories, can anyone anywhere tell me of any instance when gov't land was upgraded to chanot status?

My wife bought some land and it took a year to put it in her name, my understanding was there was no title on the land, or at least very low title, so you can imagine my surprise when a year later a full Chanot Title was issued to my wife.

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[slipperylobster]

Does the land have no papers ? Then the answer is no, because you don't know if the people selling you the land have the right to do so. Most land have some form of papers, don't need to be Chanote. Visit the land office and get more info on the ownership/usage rights of this land, before you decide.

It is almost certain that the land has been pawned off for a big loan...of which the owner cannot even pay on the principal owed, let alone the monthly interest. Perhaps some money lender is holding the papers. Shy away from it.

[swissie]

By reading post's # 7,9,12, OP should get the overall picture.

BTW: Former "Banana-Republics" ranging from Nicaragua all the way south to Paraguay/Bolivia offer better property-rights protection for foreign investors than Thailand.

I know, can't really be compared because the father of most decisions by Farangs in Thailand is the PP-Factor. (= P*ssy-Power-Factor).

Cheers.

[ericthai]

No chanote then 1 rai is worth 50,000.

Amongst Thai...no more then 30.000.-

All depends on where the land is. You cant just say the price of land is this. Location, location, location.

[German Viking]

Land Titles in Thailand

There are six different types of title deed in Thailand and it is essential to obtain correct information on the deeds to any property you intend to purchase.

The Chanote and the Nor Sor Sam Kor are the only titles deeds over which a register able right of ownership or lease can exist, and are as such the only ones that prudent purchasers should consider.

Chanot (Nor Sor 4)

Freehold title with the owner able to leave the land unattended. An individual named upon a title deed, may use the title as proof of ownership in all legal undertakings and with the authorities Title deeds are registered at the Land Department in the province in which the land is located, and there is no waiting time required to transfer title however sub-division of the titled plot to more than nine sub-plots must follow the Land Allotment Law, Section 286.

Chanote titles are accurately surveyed, plotted in relation to a national survey grid and also marked by unique numbered marker posts set in the ground. It is the long term goal of the Land Department, that all land in Thailand will be covered under the Chanote title system.

Nor Sor 3 Gor

This certifies that the person named on the certificate has the confirmed right to use the land, implying all requirements for the issuance of title deed have been met, and issuance of the title deed is pending. They may be sold, leased, used as mortgage collateral etc. The holder of this certificate cannot leave the land unattended for more than 12 years.

With this documentation the land area is defined with parcel points and is accurately mapped, showing adjoining plots on a map using a standard scale of 1:5000. Land with this type of documentation may be sub-divided and legal acts need not be publicised.

Nor Sor 3

Similar to the above Confirmed Certificate of Use except that not all of the formalities to certify the right to use have been performed. Before a transfer can be made, a notice of intent must be posted and then 30 days public notice is necessary before any change of status over the land can be registered.

No parcel points are marked and it is issued upon a specific plot with no frame of reference to connecting plots. Problems can occur when attempting to verify the actual land area of such plots covered by this documentation.

Sor Kor Nung

This recognises that a person is in possession of land but the Certificate does not imply that there are any rights associated which the possession. Land with this documentation cannot be bought or sold, and may only be transferred to the direct heirs of the person who holds it

Por. Bor. Tor 6

This is documentation that all land must have in order for a tax number to be issued and tax to be paid upon the benefits of the land. It does not in anyway infer title, ownership or possessory right of the land, only that it has been assessed as taxable.

Sor Kor 1

This is the form required to notify the government of a possessory claim to a piece of land. This was introduced in December 1954 and was used by the government to verify claims upon the land with the eventual issuance of Nor. Sor 3 or Nor. Sor. 3 Gor certification.

This is the first proper explanation about the classification of land titles in Thailand respect.

Anyway Guys I don't see all the problem you imagine, this is all about the right philisophy and the right paperwork.

First you have to understand that nothing in this world is 100% safe, not with a legal paper in your hand at all.

Married or not is also a question of the philisophy.

Best to be pragmatic and looking clear at the facts:

1. Not any Farang can buy a piece of land in Thailand in his name.

2. Nobody can take any money or land with him on the way to hell or a similar place.

3. Marriage can only bring you in danger in the worst case.

4. Buy Land in your TGF name, when you like it, this is up to you.

5. In the case you clinch this deal make a sober credit contract for all

expenses you pay for, with your TGF.

6. In top making a sober long term leasing or rent contract for your

property.

But like I said before nothing is 100% safe.

PS: Years ago real happend in Phuket.

A farang married his TGF and had built a nice house already.

In the honeymoon night he had nothing better to do as to tell his

wife the he having a life insurance worth sever 100k euro and

had issued her name already.

Unfortunately he did'nt survived his honeymoon night more than

1 week he had an accident under suspicious circumstances.

Conclusion: The best life insurance is not to be married and do the

right paperwork, but be careful there is any time a rest

risk, caused in the worst case can hit you a lightning

while sitting on the toilet.

In case something like this will be happend to you, think positiv, caused you got ridd off all these paranoid problem in this bloody

world. No risk no fun(LOL)

And as long you alive and follow my advices you will have control.

Like Lenin said: "Confidence is good, but contol is better"

[khunPer]

As a remark to German Viking’s excellent recommendations, rule number one is:

Thou shall in Land-of-Smiles always be worth more alive than dead…

[MonkeyLoo]

As a remark to German Viking’s excellent recommendations, rule number one is:

Thou shall in Land-of-Smiles always be worth more alive than dead…

Most are smart enough not to kill the cow.

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[mrfaroukh]

You will have problem even if they come with proper papers.

[deepcell]

paranoid with Thai people? better move to other country.. lol

[glegolo]

This seems to be "the never ending story" in Thailand. Why can't the foreigner understand that he can't buy land in Thailand? My advive is to STAY AWAY from whatever kind of land they are selling. And be aware of that you have to sign a paper at the Land Office that says the money for the land doesn't come from you.

Yes and your opinion seems also to be a never ending story. A story that contains greedy people that haven´t got a thaibaht over to spend on their families.

These cheap guys never had a thought in their heads, that when they are gone there can be a good thing to take care of i.e. the wife and secure her future when you are dead and gone.

You never own your money for eternity,,, you just borrow them until you dies,,, than it is goodbye with both you/me and our money... So loosen up, and be a man and not a cheap human walking this earth...

Glegolo

[Travel2003]

Never by property in Thailand. Never buy property without a chanote.

Agree, sister in law just lost her house (inherited from my mother in law), because the land was sold and a handshake was made.

10 years later, it turned out daughter of the previous owner had managed to borrow a load of money from the bank, using the land as collateral.

The bank wanted the money back, so now they own the land, and have put it out for sale.

Needless to say maybe, but I calmly told my wife, your sister can move to the farm, and stay there.

I do not pay for idiocy.

PS.

Several cases like this in the same village.

[Travel2003]

paranoid with Thai people? better move to other country.. lol

Really?

You roll around on the floor from your own joke?

How old are you?

[MonkeyLoo]

Thanks All.

I will take a trip to the land office on Monday.

Whatever happens i will bring everyone together if i do buy. Lawyer, Big man. Owner and witnesses.

Hopefully we can do a deal.

I will keep you posted.

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[thaiguzzi]

No chanote then 1 rai is worth 50,000.

Amongst Thai...no more then 30.000.-

Bulls#hit!

[thaiguzzi]

^^^^,

if he goes to the local land/planning office Or Bor Tor and gets planning permission there would be no need for the house to be dismantled.

As has been pointed out, many of these houses are built illegaly with no planning permission.

As has also been pointed out, much of this is gov't land, wait until the gov't decides to put a road through your property.

There is nothing wrong with the Thai land laws, the problems arise when people try to circumvent them.

If the OP goes ahead and buys, the first thing I would do is put a fence round whatever I had bought, I would also install chanot style concrete markers before i even parted with money, I would also ensure the neighbours had no claim to whatever land I bought, I would also take GPS coordinates and have all the details lodged with the poo yai baan.

Love these upgrading to chanot stories, can anyone anywhere tell me of any instance when gov't land was upgraded to chanot status?

There is a lot wrong with the land laws.

Not wanting to bring politics into this but... one of the reasons Thaksin was so popular in the NW and NE, was he had promised to free up and modernise all the land paperwork for farmers and rural people. Then he got ousted. The very same people who ousted him and the "other side" have wanted antiquated land laws that are 50-60 years old to stay exactly that - antiquated. Can't let the rabble own their own land can we, they might buy and sell. They may get wealthy. Etc etc. Land papers should be just that - one piece of paper, not six (there are more).

[MonkeyLoo]

No chanote then 1 rai is worth 50,000.

Amongst Thai...no more then 30.000.-

Bulls#hit!

Come bargain for me dude!

Get for 50 And i will give you 50, and some.....

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[rgs2001uk]

^^^^,

if he goes to the local land/planning office Or Bor Tor and gets planning permission there would be no need for the house to be dismantled.

As has been pointed out, many of these houses are built illegaly with no planning permission.

As has also been pointed out, much of this is gov't land, wait until the gov't decides to put a road through your property.

There is nothing wrong with the Thai land laws, the problems arise when people try to circumvent them.

If the OP goes ahead and buys, the first thing I would do is put a fence round whatever I had bought, I would also install chanot style concrete markers before i even parted with money, I would also ensure the neighbours had no claim to whatever land I bought, I would also take GPS coordinates and have all the details lodged with the poo yai baan.

Love these upgrading to chanot stories, can anyone anywhere tell me of any instance when gov't land was upgraded to chanot status?

There is a lot wrong with the land laws.

Not wanting to bring politics into this but... one of the reasons Thaksin was so popular in the NW and NE, was he had promised to free up and modernise all the land paperwork for farmers and rural people. Then he got ousted. The very same people who ousted him and the "other side" have wanted antiquated land laws that are 50-60 years old to stay exactly that - antiquated. Can't let the rabble own their own land can we, they might buy and sell. They may get wealthy. Etc etc. Land papers should be just that - one piece of paper, not six (there are more).

No need to bring politics into it, I support gov't land, its a way of protecting the poorest, gives them land to make a living.

If you want to talk about the greedy middlemen, thats a different subject.

I remember vividly Bkk circa 1998/99/2000, all these farmers had sold their land to get jobs in the booming construction industry, better paying than working the land.

AFC came along and these people had no land to go back to, Samg Rong looked like something from Soweto, people living in tents under klong bridges and overpasses.

Wonder how much farming land is being built on to provide farang masnions, never mind the poo yai baan will look the other way as he pockets his windfall.

Jesus H there was some poor sap came on here recently telling us the poo yai baan wanted 50k baht to give planning permission for the farang mansion he was about to build.

You really couldnt make this shyt up, greed driven by greed.

" Can't let the rabble own their own land can we"

Thats just it isnt it, the rabble dont own the land, its gov't land.

[bina]

In answer to whomever asked...yes we r finally succeeding to do the agri.to chanote upgrade but it has taken a humongous amount if helpful money...This week finalizing in muubaan. ..but uts been 4yrs since our request...now u can no longer do upgrade s...

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[Sealbash]

How can one prove that there is no Chanote in existence because it may be held by some Money Lender whose had it for decades???

Just asking???

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A lawyer can do the research at the land office.

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[Norlund]

We (OK the missus) had around 2.5 rai without a chanote. Lived there for about 4-5 years then sold it on to another farang and his partner. When first purchasing the land the transaction was done in front of the village boss and a few other older heads. Same when we came to sell it.

Personally I wouldn't do it again unless I new for sure I was staying for good.

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Do you really understand what you are saying? To do like this is to "begg on your knees" for ending up with a lot of problems. Allways make the correct paperwork at The Land Office. It's NOT YOUR LAND, whatever you are thinking. If your lady does the correct paper work no one can take it away from her. And be aware of, as I said before, if you are married to the lady you have to sign a paper at The Land Office that says that the money for the land DOESN'T come from you. If you sign this paper and the money still comes from you you can end up with serious problems if an officer follows up this later.

[longstebe]

We (OK the missus) had around 2.5 rai without a chanote. Lived there for about 4-5 years then sold it on to another farang and his partner. When first purchasing the land the transaction was done in front of the village boss and a few other older heads. Same when we came to sell it.

Personally I wouldn't do it again unless I new for sure I was staying for good.

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Do you really understand what you are saying? To do like this is to "begg on your knees" for ending up with a lot of problems. Allways make the correct paperwork at The Land Office. It's NOT YOUR LAND, whatever you are thinking. If your lady does the correct paper work no one can take it away from her. And be aware of, as I said before, if you are married to the lady you have to sign a paper at The Land Office that says that the money for the land DOESN'T come from you. If you sign this paper and the money still comes from you you can end up with serious problems if an officer follows up this later.

Calm down lad <deleted>.

Did you even read my post properly?

Go and empty your sack or something, jeez.

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[Norlund]

This seems to be "the never ending story" in Thailand. Why can't the foreigner understand that he can't buy land in Thailand? My advive is to STAY AWAY from whatever kind of land they are selling. And be aware of that you have to sign a paper at the Land Office that says the money for the land doesn't come from you.

"Can't buy" should be changed to "can't own". There are 30 year leases, usufructs, etc., which a farang can get in his/her name.

When we bought a house in Pak Thongchai about 5 years ago, my wife and I had not formalized our marriage. The land office required me to sign the "money does not come from me", but then suggested that a "superfices" be added to the chanote that allowed me to stay on that land "for my lifetime". When we sold that place a couple of years later, I had to sign an agreement to release my claim.

As I understand, the same option my not be available to persons legally married

You can read page after page on the net from Thai law firms where it says that foreigner can't buy land in Thailand. Why is it so difficult for someone to understand this simple fact?

There are a lot of developers in Thailand that say "this and that" because they want to sell a foreigner land in Thailand. What they say sometimes it's NOT TRUE. To find out the facts you need your own lawer. NOT the developers lawer.

To lease land in Thailand for 30 years, with an option for 30+30 years, you can do. But this is NOT the same as you own the land.