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BANGKOK 26 May 2019 06:54
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punkfutures

Work Permit, No Degree

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I know people that came up from the bottom of their field to acquire formidable skills in their profession without attending college. They organically learned by themselves and developed a high level of performance power in the area of expertise; if you can do the job and you do it well no one can deny that ability and you will be unquestionably a valuable asset.

I have a good friend that is a robotics engineer for Mitsubishi, never went to collage learned mostly from books and the internet, he started at the bottom learning while working for different companies then he opened his own company designing and selling automation machines. Finally he was head hunted by Mitsubishi and given a pay package he couldn’t refuse. They were stunned when they found he only had a high school education but it didn’t matter to them he had the ability they wanted not just a fancy piece of paper, the actual skill.

If you have sufficient desire to become a teacher in Thailand and acquire the skill, no one can stop you from attaining that goal.

I agree with you on that, but keep in mind that such examples are rare, and exceptional; i.e., not common.

A degree matters most these days, and particularly that too-- in a relevant field.

Teaching English is not a joke. A maths teacher may not be able to teach English and vice verse unless she has a good command over the language (subject). Students should be taught how to avoid grammatical errors from the very beginning of their lessons. Children might risk learning poor or bad English, for which they would perhaps need to struggle in their entire future lives.

This would be a mistake to assume that all native speakers are good teachers, while at the same time, its a misconception that all good English teacher must be natives.

You can't blame the system. They can't really evaluate your skills unless you show some competence.

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I never got a college degree however I would like to teach English (in Thailand).

Anyone making inquiries about this DONE TO DEATH topic and is incapable of doing basic internet searches is simply not intelligent enough to a teacher.

I have done ample internet searches. You cherry picked one sentence from my much longer query and lashed out about it. If you have nothing to contribute, perhaps ply your tirade elsewhere.

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Not correct!

You seem to have missed the point I made in the second post on this thread that non-formal schools are not under the auspices of the TCT. Teachers at language schools do not need a teacher license or waiver to obtain a work permit.

Thanks for this. I appreciate this specific answer.

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A degree does not make you a teacher in any field, unless it is a teaching degree.

Experience and training can make you an excellent teacher.

I taught for 25 years of my working life.

For 10 years I taught people to drive. I took training for this and was very respected in London as a top class teacher in this field.

I also taught health and safety for the British Safety Council and taught prospective security officers to the level required to gain their security licence.

I have a degree, but didn't gain this until after I retired. I have a BSc in Graphic Design. I did this because I have always had an interest in graphic design and it has been a hobby of mine for a very long time.

I know a couple of people employed in Thai schools to teach English, who have no degree. One of them doesn't even have a TEFL qualification, but like me, he has experience in teaching in other fields.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

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I know people that came up from the bottom of their field to acquire formidable skills in their profession without attending college. They organically learned by themselves and developed a high level of performance power in the area of expertise; if you can do the job and you do it well no one can deny that ability and you will be unquestionably a valuable asset.

I have a good friend that is a robotics engineer for Mitsubishi, never went to collage learned mostly from books and the internet, he started at the bottom learning while working for different companies then he opened his own company designing and selling automation machines. Finally he was head hunted by Mitsubishi and given a pay package he couldn’t refuse. They were stunned when they found he only had a high school education but it didn’t matter to them he had the ability they wanted not just a fancy piece of paper, the actual skill.

If you have sufficient desire to become a teacher in Thailand and acquire the skill, no one can stop you from attaining that goal.

I agree with you on that, but keep in mind that such examples are rare, and exceptional; i.e., not common.

A degree matters most these days, and particularly that too-- in a relevant field.

Teaching English is not a joke. A maths teacher may not be able to teach English and vice verse unless she has a good command over the language (subject). Students should be taught how to avoid grammatical errors from the very beginning of their lessons. Children might risk learning poor or bad English, for which they would perhaps need to struggle in their entire future lives.

This would be a mistake to assume that all native speakers are good teachers, while at the same time, its a misconception that all good English teacher must be natives.

You can't blame the system. They can't really evaluate your skills unless you show some competence.

I do agree with you, and I did not mean to imply that a degree is not important tool. However this gentleman doesn’t possess a degree nevertheless he certainly can marshal the formidable tool of desire to acquire the skill and achieve his goal. If his desire is strong enough he will achieve the level of competence required to become an English teacher and be rewarded for the possession of that valuable skill with employment.

The English proficiency of the Thai’s is a direct reflection of the importance they put in achieving competency, the short answer is they don’t really want it. They attach more pain to the process of learning it than to the pleasure of being able to speak the language.

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Its not that complicated.

My undergraduate degrees were in Economics and International Relations. Lets stick to that for now.

Undoubtedly my Econ professors had spent less than 2 years of part time study (45 credits towards the major + related) gaining their BS in Economics. Total study time estimate, inside class and out, MAXIMUM 6,000 hours. Then they gained a PhD, that took them probably 8 hours a day x 200 days per year x 3 years to get their PhD. And with this they became literally the highest possible level of expert on Economics. Total study time, 5,000 hours.

Now lets say I am a high school graduate.

The average american watches 5 hours of TV per day. All in English of course. 32,850 hours of English exposure.

K through 12, 6 hours of classes per day, all in English, 15,600 hours of english classroom instruction.

We will ignore conversing with family and friends.

Your average 10 year old kid in the US who picks up a book once in a while is fairly fluent at English. Far, far more competent than all but a handful of the top Thai English teachers in Thailand.

The reason TESOL courses are so helpful is that it takes something you already know pretty darn well (English) and teaches you some simple techniques that can allow you to be an effective teacher.

And some of the WORST teachers I have ever encountered are the MA's in Edu who think they actually can teach...

the percentage of teachers who have more than a four-week course and teaching is probably less than 5 percent, excluding people from the Philippines of course.

I have a bachelor's degree and a master. None of the teachers who taught me my bachelors or masters degrees had formal training in education. But yet I learned anyway. Isn't that amazing?

No, they had formal graduate and post-graduate training in the discipline of your degree program. Barring special circumstances, they had master's degrees in that discipline when you earned your bachelor and doctorates in that discipline when you earned your master.

How is it you think that compares to a lack of an education degree--or a simple bachelor's degree, as is accepted here in Thialand--for primary and secondary school education?

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On this subject it is worth mentioning what happened at my neighbour's kid's school.

Two teachers that worked there for a number of years, very competent from what he said and well liked by the kids, recently had to leave as weren't approved for another waiver letter from the TCT. Their replacements are a couple of young American kids travelling the world after recently graduating from university, they plan to teach for 1yr only then move on. According to his kid they are useless, the girl has ended up crying in some classes as can't control the students and the guy just shouts at them. No teaching experience, no work/life experience but the TCT are happy for them to teach Thai students instead of experienced, competent people with years of work experience, one ran his own furniture company and the was a manager at BT.

Really is a sorry state of affairs when this is what is happening, doesn't benefit the Thai youth at all by enforcing this rule as hundreds, probably thousands, of experienced and competent teachers are having to stop and being replaced by kids with no abilityor desire to teach. Hiring backpackers also prevents the continuity that a student/teacher relationship requires.

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I would not necessarily hold the TCT responsible for a school making poor choices in who is hired.

I have a couple of young, inexperienced teachers as well, but with a little bit of guidance and help they are headed in the right direction. Turning them loose on the students without some supervisory oversight would have been a disaster waiting to happen.

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Without a degree you cannot get a work permit for a regular teaching position. However, you can be hired as a teaching assistant, or there are many schools in rural areas that will hire anyone to teach English if you are a native English speaker, even if you have never been to college or have a TEFL.

..and your duties will be?

..also...can you get a work permit on that?

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I would not necessarily hold the TCT responsible for a school making poor choices in who is hired.

I have a couple of young, inexperienced teachers as well, but with a little bit of guidance and help they are headed in the right direction. Turning them loose on the students without some supervisory oversight would have been a disaster waiting to happen.

But that is my point Scott. In many places in Thailand, especially up-country where we are, there aren't that many suitable native English speakers applying for jobs so schools often have to hire unsuitable applicants while releasing perfectly competent and experienced teachers because the TCT won't approve them. There are a number of schools here still without foreign teachers even though the new term started over a month ago.

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