Best beginner's DSLR Kit for around 20K?

[Tywais]

D3300 versus D5200

DXOmarks has them nearly head to head

Snapsort comparison

Versus.com

[neverdie]

D3300 versus D5200

DXOmarks has them nearly head to head

Snapsort comparison

Versus.com

Hence the reason that old crank neverdie said, give the 5200 the miss, save the $200 for the upgrade or put it towards better glass.

Not really a fan of articulating screens either.....if they were that benificial they'd be on the pro level cameras, just another junction for problems IMO.

The OP should also examine the Canon and Pentax offerings.

[MJP]

D3300 versus D5200

DXOmarks has them nearly head to head

Snapsort comparison

Versus.com

Hence the reason that old crank neverdie said, give the 5200 the miss, save the $200 for the upgrade or put it towards better glass.

Not really a fan of articulating screens either.....if they were that benificial they'd be on the pro level cameras, just another junction for problems IMO.

The OP should also examine the Canon and Pentax offerings.

Forget Pentax in Thailand, there's no good retail outlets for it.

[wolf5370]

Just saw this - Pentax K5, 18.5k (more for lenses)

Classifieds: http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/electronics/cameras/pentax-k-5-digital-slr-camera-from-japan-mint-condition-274550.html

Also a Nikon D700, 30k (body only)

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/electronics/cameras/nikon-d700-12-1-mp-digital-slr-camera-black-body-only-250599.html

Also might be worth checking FB Second Hand Chiang Mai etc.

Just a thought.

[neverdie]

Just saw this - Pentax K5, 18.5k (more for lenses)

Classifieds: http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/electronics/cameras/pentax-k-5-digital-slr-camera-from-japan-mint-condition-274550.html

Also a Nikon D700, 30k (body only)

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/electronics/cameras/nikon-d700-12-1-mp-digital-slr-camera-black-body-only-250599.html

Also might be worth checking FB Second Hand Chiang Mai etc.

Just a thought.

I originally refrained from mentioning the second hand market and gear like that D700. Personally, that's the way I would go, without hesitation, a real full frame sensor camera, full pro build with all manual settings mag alloy construction and the history as one of the greatest of all times. Of course this camera deserves nothing but the best lenses......

....... and now the OP is at multiple times his budget, but I'm hearing you wolf !

[neverdie]

D3300 versus D5200

DXOmarks has them nearly head to head

Snapsort comparison

Versus.com

Hence the reason that old crank neverdie said, give the 5200 the miss, save the $200 for the upgrade or put it towards better glass.

Not really a fan of articulating screens either.....if they were that benificial they'd be on the pro level cameras, just another junction for problems IMO.

The OP should also examine the Canon and Pentax offerings.

Forget Pentax in Thailand, there's no good retail outlets for it.

Sad to hear that. The only time we had problems with our Pentax P&S Was after yours truely dropped it onto so e boulders. Strange that. Ohhh yeah and wasn't I popular. 555555

[wolf5370]

Another choice perhaps is the Canon EOS 600D (Rebel t3i), now its around the 18.5k mark from Big Cameras etc. Comes with a single 18-55 lens. 18MP APS-C CMOS sensor. I like Canon, but that's probably because I tend to stay with them due to the lenses etc I already have (including lens filters from the 35mm days that I never use any more thanks to post production lol!).

Edited June 28, 2014 by wolf5370

[FracturedRabbit]

At the 20k mark; any camera you buy is going to be competent and offer a full range of controls. It doesn't have to be a DSLR, it doesn't even have to be an interchangeable lens camera; What it does have to be is a camera that your daughter will want to go out and shoot with; I would suggest THAT is the most important criteria.

As a first camera, the brand is completely irrelevant. If she really gets into it; then she will develop a much clearer vision of what sort of camera system she wants in the future; and that first camera will probably become a back-up or be sold.

Why not take her down to well stocked shop and get all the cameras in your price range out on the table. Fuji, Sony, Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Panasonic. Let her play with all of them, ask questions, decide which one feels ring in her hands and makes her want to take it out and take photos. That's the one to buy!

[rhythmworx]

^^^ Quite true.

@ OP, I don't know what country your in, I know you mentioned baht but could be in another country, if your in the UK and there is a local Calumet store near you, they rent out everything to do with photography and video,

I'm not suggesting rent but if you go to your local store they will pull out almost any rental camera and lens out for you to try there and then and will offer good advice. I never got that same level of customer friendliness and advice from Jessops when they were on the high street.

If you do want to rent, rent on a friday/saturday (best check 1st) and you have the whole weekend to try out that gear for the price of one day.

If you do buy from there, don't pre or mail order, as the USA company has gone into liquidation, but I have been told the UK company is safe in that respect.

[tw25rw]

As for P&S vs DSLR, she is quite adamant she wants a DSLR - she has several devices for basic P&S photography already, if it doesn't come with all of the controls to manipulate it's almost certainly going to fall short of her expectations/ambitions.

I just reread this and noticed this line. The cameras that have been recommended that aren't DSLR are not P&S any more than DSLRs are. The thing that makes DSLRs SLRs is that they have the (old fashioned) mirror and prism arrangement. This makes them bulky and, long term, more susceptible to mechanical issues. They do have some advantages for action photography, but this will be less the case with each new generation of mirrorless camera. In time, the Nikon/Canon powerhouses will see sufficient financial incentive in mirrorless to make the move in earnest.

[fimgirl]

Choosing the right camera is tricky

I guess some girls prefer DSLR Nikon

Some prefer micro 4/3rds

Some even like film cameras

Others are just happy looking at themselves

And then there's the working Pro

[FracturedRabbit]

"Choosing the right camera is tricky"

We need a shot of you and your Leica, preferably with a towel wrapped around your head in full "working pro" mode.

[fimgirl]

"Choosing the right camera is tricky"

We need a shot of you and your Leica, preferably with a towel wrapped around your head in full "working pro" mode.

Duh! I thought I looked pretty good with my Canons!

LOL

[FracturedRabbit]

As for P&S vs DSLR, she is quite adamant she wants a DSLR - she has several devices for basic P&S photography already, if it doesn't come with all of the controls to manipulate it's almost certainly going to fall short of her expectations/ambitions.

I just reread this and noticed this line. The cameras that have been recommended that aren't DSLR are not P&S any more than DSLRs are. The thing that makes DSLRs SLRs is that they have the (old fashioned) mirror and prism arrangement. This makes them bulky and, long term, more susceptible to mechanical issues. They do have some advantages for action photography, but this will be less the case with each new generation of mirrorless camera. In time, the Nikon/Canon powerhouses will see sufficient financial incentive in mirrorless to make the move in earnest.

Spot on. Ten years ago the market may have been a choice between P&S or DSLR; but those days are long gone. The most interesting, exciting and good looking cameras nowadays are not DSLRs; and they offer equal, and in many cases more, control options than a DSLR.

[JimShortz]

You should consider the newer mirrorless DSLRs. I recently sold my Canon 550D camera and lenses (that I liked very much by the way - great entry level DSLR) and replaced it with a tiny and light Sony Nex 3 with it's kit lens (16 to 50mm). This is way more compact, is a fully featured mirrorless DSLR, and takes superb photos, but does not have a viewfinder. For that you need to go for a Nex 5 or 7 - but I am guessing your daughter won't care...

The Nex 3 with kit lens is about 15k Baht in the shops, but I bought it online from a Lazada associate for 11,500. You can but it with an additional long zoom for under 20k. I think your daughter may love that setup....

I love mine. No way I'll go back to a huge DSLR again - the future is mirrorless for sure! The Nex range are a good mirrorless choice rather than the micro 4/3rds cameras as they have a much larger sensor - the same size as my Canon 550D.

[FracturedRabbit]

Mr. Pedant here. Just to clarify; a mirrorless camera such as a Sony NEX is not a DSLR. A DSLR of the sort peddled by Canikon has a flappy mirror (hence the R for Reflex in the name).

[tw25rw]

You should consider the newer mirrorless DSLRs.

The name they are promoting is DSLM.

[neverdie]

As for P&S vs DSLR, she is quite adamant she wants a DSLR - she has several devices for basic P&S photography already, if it doesn't come with all of the controls to manipulate it's almost certainly going to fall short of her expectations/ambitions.

I just reread this and noticed this line. The cameras that have been recommended that aren't DSLR are not P&S any more than DSLRs are. The thing that makes DSLRs SLRs is that they have the (old fashioned) mirror and prism arrangement. This makes them bulky and, long term, more susceptible to mechanical issues. They do have some advantages for action photography, but this will be less the case with each new generation of mirrorless camera. In time, the Nikon/Canon powerhouses will see sufficient financial incentive in mirrorless to make the move in earnest.

Spot on. Ten years ago the market may have been a choice between P&S or DSLR; but those days are long gone. The most interesting, exciting and good looking cameras nowadays are not DSLRs; and they offer equal, and in many cases more, control options than a DSLR.

I will try to keep this brief, precise & polite and please understand I have no intent to offend.

More control options than a DSLR? Can you explain what you are talking about please?

Personally, I've never seen any p&S or prosumer camera that has more control options than a DSLR (especially considering full manual options of cameras such as a D800 or something like that. I'm very interested in what you are talking about. what have I missed, I think this is important to clarify as he OP is a complete newbie to photography and may be easily confused by all of this.

Cheers.

[neverdie]

You should consider the newer mirrorless DSLRs. I recently sold my Canon 550D camera and lenses (that I liked very much by the way - great entry level DSLR) and replaced it with a tiny and light Sony Nex 3 with it's kit lens (16 to 50mm). This is way more compact, is a fully featured mirrorless DSLR, and takes superb photos, but does not have a viewfinder. For that you need to go for a Nex 5 or 7 - but I am guessing your daughter won't care...

The Nex 3 with kit lens is about 15k Baht in the shops, but I bought it online from a Lazada associate for 11,500. You can but it with an additional long zoom for under 20k. I think your daughter may love that setup....

I love mine. No way I'll go back to a huge DSLR again - the future is mirrorless for sure! The Nex range are a good mirrorless choice rather than the micro 4/3rds cameras as they have a much larger sensor - the same size as my Canon 550D.

Hi Jim,

I agree with your statement about Mirrorless being the way of the future and I believe both Niks & Canon have heavily invested in its development leading towards pro level camera development but basically as @ 2014, they still have no mastered some of the issues with focus and tracking development as well as a range of other issues that would effect a full (DSLR TYPE) camera.

I'd happily shoot a nex or similar camera all day long, however I am yet to meet 1 single Professional photog that would go over to Mirrorless at this time. The fact is, development of a pro level Mirrorless is probably 5-10 years away (give or take a bit).

I realise we are talking about entry level DSLR for the OP verses perhaps a nex (type camera), but imo Mirrorless isn't quite there in some areas & perhaps a bit better than a DSLR in others.

I have been really impressed with photos from some prosumer level cameras that have been taken by experienced photos indeed, I agree that the future is looking exciting indeed.

When caniks sort thru it all the first Mirrorless pro cameras are going to be absolutely cracking.

[fimgirl]

.........................however I am yet to meet 1 single Professional photog that would go over to Mirrorless at this time. The fact is, development of a pro level Mirrorless is probably 5-10 years away (give or take a bit).

Well, we haven't met yet but may I introduce myself as the first Pro photographer you've met that has gone over entirely to mirrorless. In fact, my full frame Leica M240 (no mirror) is already 1 year old. It's Pro level (non mirror) predecessors being the M8 and M9 were launched 7 and 5 years back respectively. I think upon reflection you'll agree we're well in front of a 5-10 year future timescale.

Many of my Pro friends and indeed far more recognised Pro's are shooting Sony A7 A7R Olympus Em1 and Fuji XT-. All mirrorless. Ming Thein (no slouch) using 2 EM1's a great deal.

"When caniks sort thru it all (the) their first Mirrorless pro cameras are going to be absolutely (cracking) 5-10 years behind".

Edited June 30, 2014 by fimgirl

[FracturedRabbit]

The discussion is not about Point and Shoot; by their very definition you point and shoot them with little set-up. I am not sure what "prosumer" even means.

As an example of a non-DSLR camera that offers extensive control options, I can best offer up the Olympus E-M1; because that is what I currently shoot with. Its predecessor, the E-M5, had a reputation for being a challenge to set up; partially admittedly because of Olympus's "creative" approach to menus; but mainly because there were just so many control options to get your head around. Pages of internet guides were produced; someone even wrote a book!

The E-M1 offer even more. A summary of the external controls:

Five programmable function buttons
Two control wheels which can be set to different functions.
Two top of camera buttons that each set two functions
Two setting lever that can change either the role of the control wheels or the role of two of the function buttons. In addition, it can optionally change the role of the two top of the camera buttons
Programmable AEL/AFL button

That's eleven separate configurable hardware control options (Plus the usual PASM wheel, Dpad, menu, delete, review and OK buttons). I think that is probably sufficient to provide all the control you could possibly need. I must admit I have one spare function button I don't really have a use for.

Every function button is configurable to a wide range of options; the wheels can be assigned to different function, the buttons on top of the camera have multiple options built into them (for example one offers differing HDR settings, the other different AF options. There is a lever which can change the role of these two buttons (or not), and in itself can have an assignable function. The AEL/AFL button is configurable.

In addition to the hardware buttons, there is an on-screen (in the EVF or rear LCD) menu that you can bring up with the press of a button, displaying 20+ options which you can change using the controls wheels or D pad without taking your eyes away from the EVF.

The challenge with the E-M1 is of course setting it up. It took me a couple of days in a quiet corner with the manual and the camera and a few stiff drinks to get my head around what was possible. But once the camera was set up, I can do anything I might want to do without taking my eyes off the EVF. It is by far the most configurable camera I have ever owned (much more so than my previous Canon 1D), and this results in a camera that operates exactly as I want to use it; and is therefore an utter joy to shoot.

The reason that I feel mirrorless can offer more control options than a DSLR is because the EVF itself becomes a significant and very configurable part of the interface. Things I can do with my E-M1 EVF include:

Change the nature of the information that will be displayed.

Choose to show a level guage

Choose to show a histogram

Have potential blown highlights and shadows display on the screen, and also set the luminance point at which those highlights and shadows will trigger

Set grid display boost

Set whether the display will boost in low light

Select whether you want to use focus peaking or zoomed in view when manual focusing

Adjust "Live Time" settings which will update the image being created in long exposure mode

That's the E-M1. I am sure that equivalent offerings from the likes of Sony and Fuji offer similar comprehensive levels of configurability.

Hope that helps answer your question.

Edited July 1, 2014 by astral
Removal of long quote - Please use Reply button a the bottom

[fimgirl]

You could also add articulated screen and wysiwyg from direct sensor metering. I never had those functions available on any of my Pro Canon gear and boy, do they make a significant contribution to ease of shooting. Try shooting at ground level without an articulated screen. It's possible but you sure get dirty in the process.

[FracturedRabbit]

I am not at level of flmgirl; but I have been making money out of mirrorless for several years. Doing sports event photography, I shot the sports event itself with a Canon 1D with a sodding great lens on the front; because DSLRs and their PDAF focusing still rule in that area (probably the only area in which they still have an edge). But the other half of the event was the track/field side and evening party candid photos; and a small mirrorless camera with a fast lens was ideal for capturing that. Nobody ever differentiated the photos based on the camera I used and I sold plenty of mirrorless shots.

I shot a family reunion yesterday; four branches of the family from all over the globe meeting for the first time for years. My wife and I spent the afternoon with them catching both posed and mainly candid shots of them in a number of locations. We both shot with mirrorless cameras; unobtrusive, ultra-fast accurate focusing, fantastic lenses. Gave them the photos this afternoon; they were delighted. I don't think we would have been able to achieve the same level of spontaneity if we had been wielding bulky Canikons.

Oh, and I sold all my Canon gear.

Edited July 1, 2014 by astral
Removal of long quote - Please use Reply button a the bottom

[neverdie]

Well, we haven't met yet but may I introduce myself as the first Pro photographer you've met that has gone over entirely to mirrorless. In fact, my full frame Leica M240 (no mirror) is already 1 year old. It's Pro level (non mirror) predecessors being the M8 and M9 were launched 7 and 5 years back respectively. I think upon reflection you'll agree we're well in front of a 5-10 year future timescale.

Many of my Pro friends and indeed far more recognised Pro's are shooting Sony A7 A7R Olympus Em1 and Fuji XT-. All mirrorless. Ming Thein (no slouch) using 2 EM1's a great deal.

"When caniks sort thru it all (the) their first Mirrorless pro cameras are going to be absolutely (cracking) 5-10 years behind".

Well good for you and yes I'm aware of what Leica is and has been doing and have long admired the cameras you mention above. I know 2 pro photogs that have Leica gear that they use (at home) however both of them shoot caniks whilst working.

One could easily argue that Leica has been well ahead of the mass produced gear for decades, so nothing u say surprises me. Anyway, each to their own but even beautiful Leica gear comes with limitations. There's not a lot of availability, no as much variety, it's expense and I'd have some issues with a M240 in the rain, snow, dirt, dust and chaos that the niks D700 (whatever similar model) gets dragged thru daily. Some of those reasons and others may be why in 2014 many pros & many enthusiasts still prefer DSLR.

As for the other gear that u mention, I'm not denying it exists, nor the quality of work that some of them can produce BUT I am saying IMO at this moment in time most if not all of those cameras have issues that relate to focusing, tracking & recognition,frame rates, buffer sizes & speed where at the present time a DSLR will out perform them.

So, whilst I have no issue with anything u said, you would be the exception to the general rule when it comes to working photogs using full Mirrorless over DSLR & I'd go even further to suggest that there's more pros out there using med format than there is Mirrorless. I believe that my guesstimate of 5-10 years for the Jap caniks, Pentax and soforth to develop their Mirrorless probably won't be far off the mark irregardless of what Leica might be doing.

Nice to meet you

Ps: sorry for typos, abreiviations etc, I'm using iPhone ATM

[neverdie]

FracturedRabbit,

Thanks for your detailed reply, interesting information. Other than 2 or 3 things on your list (of which I'm not familiar with) everything you mentioned is available on most modern day DSLR. Some of it we have on our old D300 which was released to the world back 2007 & probably designed in 2005. Newer DSLR have many re-programmable buttons etc etc too. I was unaware that so many of the buttons were programmable on the Olympus. I will say for me, I find it very frustrating to deal with electronic sub menus and endless lists of information to make basic setting changes and would prefer one or so wheels & half a dozen buttons over that anyday. What you describe is slightly different but still involves more menu hunting than say a higher end DSLR.

Having said all that, with every system you and fimgirl have mentioned have limitations and restrictions that AT THIS POINT IN TIME that prevent the mass of the worlds pro photogs from leaving DSLR to Mirrorless. That's not to say that it won't happen because it will probably in the next 5-10 years, UNLESS of course you are trying to suggest that it's already happened and that I'm too old or stupid to have noticed such. Last time I was at a sporting event all the photogs were still using DSLR. Last time I saw a wedding being shot it was DSLR and last time I saw a media circus around a group of politicians it was film TV cameras and DSLR & at a gathering of my wife's photog friends (enthusiasts) all DSLR and all of that was just this month. Maybe I'm missing something ?

Personally, I look forward to Caniks-Pentax developing something Mirrorless wise with range and options of lenses & equipment that can better DSLR for simply smaller and lighter gear alone but the reality is, IT HAS NOT HAPPENED YET ! (Not yelling - Highlighting). I don't think my 5-10 years is unrealistic.

So back on topic, for 20k baht, what Mirrorless camera would you suggest would be good for a young girl to start learning the basic s of photography and with the range and options similar to a d3300 or similar DSLR. What advantages would those suggestions have over D3300 or similar?

[fimgirl]

Glad we agree on Leica.

Conversely, if Canon's current entry into the mirrorless market is anything to go by (read EOS-M) I won't be holding my breathe. Having said that, assuming in "5-10 years" they and/or Nikon are working on a ground breaking mirrorless is it because they know something?

Believe me, pretty much EVERY pro has a mirrorless in use. And they're losing out in this market.

Good to met you also.

Edited June 30, 2014 by fimgirl

[FracturedRabbit]

FracturedRabbit,

Thanks for your detailed reply, interesting information. Other than 2 or 3 things on your list (of which I'm not familiar with) everything you mentioned is available on most modern day DSLR. Some of it we have on our old D300 which was released to the world back 2007 & probably designed in 2005. Newer DSLR have many re-programmable buttons etc etc too. I was unaware that so many of the buttons were programmable on the Olympus. I will say for me, I find it very frustrating to deal with electronic sub menus and endless lists of information to make basic setting changes and would prefer one or so wheels & half a dozen buttons over that anyday. What you describe is slightly different but still involves more menu hunting than say a higher end DSLR.

Having said all that, with every system you and fimgirl have mentioned have limitations and restrictions that AT THIS POINT IN TIME that prevent the mass of the worlds pro photogs from leaving DSLR to Mirrorless. That's not to say that it won't happen because it will probably in the next 5-10 years, UNLESS of course you are trying to suggest that it's already happened and that I'm too old or stupid to have noticed such. Last time I was at a sporting event all the photogs were still using DSLR. Last time I saw a wedding being shot it was DSLR and last time I saw a media circus around a group of politicians it was film TV cameras and DSLR & at a gathering of my wife's photog friends (enthusiasts) all DSLR and all of that was just this month. Maybe I'm missing something ?

Personally, I look forward to Caniks-Pentax developing something Mirrorless wise with range and options of lenses & equipment that can better DSLR for simply smaller and lighter gear alone but the reality is, IT HAS NOT HAPPENED YET ! (Not yelling - Highlighting). I don't think my 5-10 years is unrealistic.

So back on topic, for 20k baht, what Mirrorless camera would you suggest would be good for a young girl to start learning the basic s of photography and with the range and options similar to a d3300 or similar DSLR. What advantages would those suggestions have over D3300 or similar?

I have already given my suggestion; get the girl in a shop, let her play with a variety of models and let her choose; that will maximise the chances she will actually use it and expand her interest and skills. I think pushing a particular brand/model is pointless and counter-productive. ANY camera in that price range will be competent and capable of being something to develop skills and interests. What matters is what feels good in her hands, what makes her want to go out and shoot photos; which one will be the most fun to own and operate. And not to underestimate that there is nothing wrong with it looking good too; some of those Fujis are beautiful photographic tools.

[FracturedRabbit]

FracturedRabbit,

Thanks for your detailed reply, interesting information. Other than 2 or 3 things on your list (of which I'm not familiar with) everything you mentioned is available on most modern day DSLR. Some of it we have on our old D300 which was released to the world back 2007 & probably designed in 2005. Newer DSLR have many re-programmable buttons etc etc too. I was unaware that so many of the buttons were programmable on the Olympus. I will say for me, I find it very frustrating to deal with electronic sub menus and endless lists of information to make basic setting changes and would prefer one or so wheels & half a dozen buttons over that anyday. What you describe is slightly different but still involves more menu hunting than say a higher end DSLR.

Having said all that, with every system you and fimgirl have mentioned have limitations and restrictions that AT THIS POINT IN TIME that prevent the mass of the worlds pro photogs from leaving DSLR to Mirrorless. That's not to say that it won't happen because it will probably in the next 5-10 years, UNLESS of course you are trying to suggest that it's already happened and that I'm too old or stupid to have noticed such. Last time I was at a sporting event all the photogs were still using DSLR. Last time I saw a wedding being shot it was DSLR and last time I saw a media circus around a group of politicians it was film TV cameras and DSLR & at a gathering of my wife's photog friends (enthusiasts) all DSLR and all of that was just this month. Maybe I'm missing something ?

Personally, I look forward to Caniks-Pentax developing something Mirrorless wise with range and options of lenses & equipment that can better DSLR for simply smaller and lighter gear alone but the reality is, IT HAS NOT HAPPENED YET ! (Not yelling - Highlighting). I don't think my 5-10 years is unrealistic.

So back on topic, for 20k baht, what Mirrorless camera would you suggest would be good for a young girl to start learning the basic s of photography and with the range and options similar to a d3300 or similar DSLR. What advantages would those suggestions have over D3300 or similar?

"What you describe is slightly different but still involves more menu hunting than say a higher end DSLR."

No it doesn't. Once set up, which is done once, I never have to go to the menus; apart from Format which sensibly is not assignable to a function button. Everything I ever need to do is assigned to a button, or selectable from within the EVF.

[Robby nz]

If you are still following this IMOH and haven't bought anything yet then consider the Canon super shot SX 50 HS from Digital to Home in Future park Rangsit

Complete with bag and 8g sim card 12,000 baht. Much smaller and lighter than a conventional DSLR.

They also do good service.

Yes I know many wouldn't be seen dead with one and it is considered Grey area but you did say entry level and that takes pretty good photos and is easy to use in auto while giving lots of options if your daughter wants to get farther into photography.

this is not an advertisement, I have one and find it good for what I want.

[fimgirl]

@IMHO - just moving on a little. Have you given any thought to, having bought the camera, how the lass will process the images. I would imagine (suggest) that initially she will shoot jpegs and download to her computer.

Then what?

Just a thought.