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brucetefl

What REALLY happens when Immigration inspect a school

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yes I'm only talking about English teachers. I personally know people who own bars and restaurants, worked in them frequently (usually as cooks), who were caught and fined heavily.

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just like when you are traveling 91 Km/hr in a 90 Km/hr zone, they may chose to let you go, but it doesn't mean you weren't breaking the law.

I don't think anyone would say that working illegally in a foreign country

is comparable to 1 kmh over the speed limit.

Weak sauce as analogy.

My point being, the Thai authorities don't care that they put foreign teachers in this position,

and that needs to be exposed.

They want a degree in ant farming fair enough, they want you to jump through all the visa, wp, license hoops

fair enough, but what are they doing?

The question stands, how many teachers would come if they knew this is what happens?

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Its a question, why not? Lots of people ask questions on the forum, right?

Sure they do! But do lots of people raise an issue, state that they have information or experience relevant to it, and then pointedly declare that they will not reveal anything about their own viewpoint, yet? I'm certain the answer to that is not "lots."

I'm not saying I think badly of your approach, but be fair, lol. If you use a style that is so unusual that someone calls it "funny," then you really can't have it both ways. I thought it was funny too. :)

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I would like to share my banking passwords with every body, but before that, share YOUR

passwords with us.....

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A pox be upon me.

I can now see what a HUGE issue this is.

In all honesty I kept. All these people talk about deportation heavy fines. Yet I had never heard of such things happening. So I asked the question to see if other people really did have first or second hand experience in these things. I didn't want to come out and say it never happened many people posted that it. But it turns out I was right. No one has ever heard of anyone being deported or fined for teaching English without a work permit. At least no one first or second hand.

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Spare me. Thats just silly. I asked for real first-hand expereince with teachers who worked illegally and were then deported.

Used fake documents? Yes it happens. Get caught for some other crime like oversay? OK, sure.

But ANYONE, who has been deported? Or even fined? For just teaching without a work permit? In 18 years not only have I not seen it, I have not even heard of it!

The school gets in trouble, not (from my experience and apparently from anyone else's) the teachers.

I have practicatlly nothing to do with the operation of TEFL International now. I operate no centers and do not even have a marketing website. I am just trying to give REAL information instead of the obviously inaccurate info given by others (IF YOU VOLUNTEER TO TEACH ENGLISH AT A POOR RURAL SCHOOL YOU WILL BE DEPORTED!!!)

The guy who started that thread, Costas2008, will not ever be my customer. I do not care. The forum is for real info. I have been here 18 years. Most of the scare mongers here are just full of crap.

@ brucetefl - you should be banned from this forum. You're claiming that working illegally won't give any problems to foreign teachers of English. So teach away but of course with a TEFL course from your company.

Look back at my first post. After members didn't post their experience, you started sharing 'your' experience. You've forgotten the story of 'hippo'. You also deny the existence of foreign teachers who got busted and don't want to shout this from the roofs.

I was at a school that was raided, an int school. Practice at the time was to wait till teachers non imm b was nearly finished to start the visa process

All new teachers(15) were taken to jail. Court next day; all guilty but not deported. Director got a big fine

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

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So they had to spend the night in jail? What jail? When you said they went to jail, my guess is they took them to an immigration Office somewhere. Generally immigration has its own jail. It's not a place where all the Thai bad guys go. I think now its out at Chaeng Wattana. Basically it's a place where people wait to be deported.

That's the first I've heard of even that happening. Apparently the director didn't get his money together quickly enough that day.

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No one has ever heard of anyone being deported or fined for teaching English without a work permit. At least no one first or second hand.

I made a post on the first page of this thread that you dismissed as an "urban myth".

And by the way, you made the claim that there are "tens of thousands" of illegal teaches in Thailand. How do you know that none of them have been fined (or or off the books), jailed or deported?

Edited by up-country_sinclair

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The reason I bring this up is because here we are on the "Teaching English in Thailand" forum and I've only heard of a few people ever getting "caught" teaching English without a work permit. And this is over 18 years experience in Thailand. So let's make one point very clear: these kinds of raids and checks are extremely rare. I think it would be fair to say that they almost never happen.

So with that established, let's discuss what does happen on the rare occasion that immigration visit to school and checks everyone for the legal status.

If immigration finds teachers in the school that do not have all documentation for legal work status, they put those teachers in a room and told him to sit down and wait. They then have a private discussion with the director of the school. Perhaps negotiation is the better term. The school director is told to get together some sum of money as a fine. The director will try to negotiate and eventually a figure will be agreed upon and that money will be handed over to the immigration officer. Once the director does a bank run, the teachers are then told they are free to go.

That's it.

Now on to the myth of deportation:

In all of my time in Thailand I have never heard of anyone being deported for working as an English teacher illegally. I've heard of a few teachers being deported, but it's always associated with something else that they've done, overstayed their visas by years, broken some significant law, or managed to get a very powerful enemy.

Does anyone else have any examples of English teachers being deported in the time they've lived in Thailand? Yet we all know there are tens of thousands of teachers teaching illegally here in the kingdom. Isn't it therefore pretty obvious that teachers teaching illegally do not get deported? Or even in any real trouble?

Every few days someone posts that they want to teach English in Thailand but for some reason, like a lack of a university degree, it's unlikely they can easily get legal status. And there are always dozens of posters warning about the dangers of deportation. One of the recent threads warned of possibly being deported for teaching as a volunteer in a small rural school.

Can we all agree that this is just a myth? A law that is obviously almost never enforced in Thailand.

It still seems people, like you (OP) don't get it !?

1.THINGS HAVE CHANGED BIG TIME. "past experience" of any sort, if it is based on any "dodgy working/visa/v-run practice", is likely to be TOTALLY USLESS NOW as the rules very obviously changed... Hence, OP, your question is rather pointless and just confuses people. Everyone should look at the "now" and focus there and forget about how it was handled "yesterday". Clinging on to the "good times ( for some...) gone"indicates desperation and delusion.

2. first and foremost, "look into the mirror" and ask yourself if there is any "false pretence" regarding your "presence/activity" in Thailand. It's time for a reality check.

2.a. if "yes" (if you see "false pretence" when looking into the mirror...) then you are in trouble today. It is easy to spot (just nobody did care in the past) and there are many easy ways for immigration officers to catch you on the spot (stamps in passport, school visits, etc.) and given the pressure and discretion they have you have all the chances in the world to be "spotted" and .... No point in closing eyes, make appropriate plans based on your REAL situation and act accordingly, don't gaze into the past (see above), it will not help you.

2.b. if "no" (if factually nothing to worry) be best possible prepared to get your message across convincingly, clear and to the point (with evidence at hand) when you meet the immigration officer next time.

I think the current situation is UTTERLY clear (unfortunately clear, for some). Only not wanting to see the realities makes it look complicated....

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we all know there are tens of thousands of teachers teaching illegally here in the kingdom.

I don't know who this "we" you are referring to is, but I certainly don't know this.

How do you know this?

Yeah, I think this is a very unlikely number. I would accept thousands, maybe. But, for sure, tens of thousands is just not possible.

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The reason I bring this up is because here we are on the "Teaching English in Thailand" forum and I've only heard of a few people ever getting "caught" teaching English without a work permit. And this is over 18 years experience in Thailand. So let's make one point very clear: these kinds of raids and checks are extremely rare. I think it would be fair to say that they almost never happen.

So with that established, let's discuss what does happen on the rare occasion that immigration visit to school and checks everyone for the legal status.

If immigration finds teachers in the school that do not have all documentation for legal work status, they put those teachers in a room and told him to sit down and wait. They then have a private discussion with the director of the school. Perhaps negotiation is the better term. The school director is told to get together some sum of money as a fine. The director will try to negotiate and eventually a figure will be agreed upon and that money will be handed over to the immigration officer. Once the director does a bank run, the teachers are then told they are free to go.

That's it.

Now on to the myth of deportation:

In all of my time in Thailand I have never heard of anyone being deported for working as an English teacher illegally. I've heard of a few teachers being deported, but it's always associated with something else that they've done, overstayed their visas by years, broken some significant law, or managed to get a very powerful enemy.

Does anyone else have any examples of English teachers being deported in the time they've lived in Thailand? Yet we all know there are tens of thousands of teachers teaching illegally here in the kingdom. Isn't it therefore pretty obvious that teachers teaching illegally do not get deported? Or even in any real trouble?

Every few days someone posts that they want to teach English in Thailand but for some reason, like a lack of a university degree, it's unlikely they can easily get legal status. And there are always dozens of posters warning about the dangers of deportation. One of the recent threads warned of possibly being deported for teaching as a volunteer in a small rural school.

Can we all agree that this is just a myth? A law that is obviously almost never enforced in Thailand.

You seem very confident about all this, but it's based on past experience. There's a new sheriff in town, and things have been changing fast. Whatever their real motivation might be, it appears that the coup-makers are intent on cleaning up the streets and getting people to do things by the book. They're clamping down on border runs, illegal taxis, buses, trains, and automobiles. Etc. Don't be so sure that they're only after certain 'kinds' of foreigners, such as Chinese and Russians. The stricter enforcement around border-runners and over-stayers shows that farangs are nothing special. Give them time. If they (the powers that now be) are aware that English language schools are doing dodgy things re teachers and student visas, there will likely be more visits from Immigration. The game has changed, and no-one should be complacent ...

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The main reason I started this thread was in response to the guy who asked if he should volunteer teach.

At a rural school.

Where no other teacher could even speak English.

At the request of the director.

And he was flooded with responses about how he would be deported and about how illegal it was.

Things may be changing for English teachers. The only change received so far is that there will be no more visa runs. That's not difficult to get around.

But the scare mongers on this board giving absolutely inaccurate information astound me.

The reason I bring this up is because here we are on the "Teaching English in Thailand" forum and I've only heard of a few people ever getting "caught" teaching English without a work permit. And this is over 18 years experience in Thailand. So let's make one point very clear: these kinds of raids and checks are extremely rare. I think it would be fair to say that they almost never happen.

So with that established, let's discuss what does happen on the rare occasion that immigration visit to school and checks everyone for the legal status.

If immigration finds teachers in the school that do not have all documentation for legal work status, they put those teachers in a room and told him to sit down and wait. They then have a private discussion with the director of the school. Perhaps negotiation is the better term. The school director is told to get together some sum of money as a fine. The director will try to negotiate and eventually a figure will be agreed upon and that money will be handed over to the immigration officer. Once the director does a bank run, the teachers are then told they are free to go.

That's it.

Now on to the myth of deportation:

In all of my time in Thailand I have never heard of anyone being deported for working as an English teacher illegally. I've heard of a few teachers being deported, but it's always associated with something else that they've done, overstayed their visas by years, broken some significant law, or managed to get a very powerful enemy.

Does anyone else have any examples of English teachers being deported in the time they've lived in Thailand? Yet we all know there are tens of thousands of teachers teaching illegally here in the kingdom. Isn't it therefore pretty obvious that teachers teaching illegally do not get deported? Or even in any real trouble?

Every few days someone posts that they want to teach English in Thailand but for some reason, like a lack of a university degree, it's unlikely they can easily get legal status. And there are always dozens of posters warning about the dangers of deportation. One of the recent threads warned of possibly being deported for teaching as a volunteer in a small rural school.

Can we all agree that this is just a myth? A law that is obviously almost never enforced in Thailand.

You seem very confident about all this, but it's based on past experience. There's a new sheriff in town, and things have been changing fast. Whatever their real motivation might be, it appears that the coup-makers are intent on cleaning up the streets and getting people to do things by the book. They're clamping down on border runs, illegal taxis, buses, trains, and automobiles. Etc. Don't be so sure that they're only after certain 'kinds' of foreigners, such as Chinese and Russians. The stricter enforcement around border-runners and over-stayers shows that farangs are nothing special. Give them time. If they (the powers that now be) are aware that English language schools are doing dodgy things re teachers and student visas, there will likely be more visits from Immigration. The game has changed, and no-one should be complacent ...

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I find this a fascinating topic.

Someone mentioned that they apply for the work permit in March after they sign the contract and it's all sorted by May when they start... on what planet? Or rather how much in bribes?

My experience is it takes way longer to sort out your first work permit and it's not only me. All the other teachers I have met have had a similar experience. I heard of one teacher (so this is just hearsay) that didn't get her permit until her year contract was almost over.

In my opinion if immigration decided to crack down on teachers working illegally there would be a massive shortage of native English teachers in Thailand. It's impossible for the schools to wait for everyones work permits to be processed before the teachers can start work, so the authorities turn a blind eye.

As far as the recent crack downs, I don't think it really applies to teachers, not from what I have seen. They are only interested in people working illegally in Thailand doing jobs that Thai's can do (Thai's can't speak native English, or not enough to be significant).

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