Jump to content
BANGKOK
Sign in to follow this  
brucetefl

What REALLY happens when Immigration inspect a school

Recommended Posts

IF THEY BECOME AWARE?

The Thai language schools are BLATANT in their selling of Education visas. have you seen some of their advertising?

STAY IN THAILAND

GET A LEGAL VISA

NO MORE VISA RUNS

study thai (DISCOUNT IF YOU DO NOT EVEN BOTHER TO SHOW UP FOR CLASS)

The reason I bring this up is because here we are on the "Teaching English in Thailand" forum and I've only heard of a few people ever getting "caught" teaching English without a work permit. And this is over 18 years experience in Thailand. So let's make one point very clear: these kinds of raids and checks are extremely rare. I think it would be fair to say that they almost never happen.

So with that established, let's discuss what does happen on the rare occasion that immigration visit to school and checks everyone for the legal status.

If immigration finds teachers in the school that do not have all documentation for legal work status, they put those teachers in a room and told him to sit down and wait. They then have a private discussion with the director of the school. Perhaps negotiation is the better term. The school director is told to get together some sum of money as a fine. The director will try to negotiate and eventually a figure will be agreed upon and that money will be handed over to the immigration officer. Once the director does a bank run, the teachers are then told they are free to go.

That's it.

Now on to the myth of deportation:

In all of my time in Thailand I have never heard of anyone being deported for working as an English teacher illegally. I've heard of a few teachers being deported, but it's always associated with something else that they've done, overstayed their visas by years, broken some significant law, or managed to get a very powerful enemy.

Does anyone else have any examples of English teachers being deported in the time they've lived in Thailand? Yet we all know there are tens of thousands of teachers teaching illegally here in the kingdom. Isn't it therefore pretty obvious that teachers teaching illegally do not get deported? Or even in any real trouble?

Every few days someone posts that they want to teach English in Thailand but for some reason, like a lack of a university degree, it's unlikely they can easily get legal status. And there are always dozens of posters warning about the dangers of deportation. One of the recent threads warned of possibly being deported for teaching as a volunteer in a small rural school.

Can we all agree that this is just a myth? A law that is obviously almost never enforced in Thailand.

You seem very confident about all this, but it's based on past experience. There's a new sheriff in town, and things have been changing fast. Whatever their real motivation might be, it appears that the coup-makers are intent on cleaning up the streets and getting people to do things by the book. They're clamping down on border runs, illegal taxis, buses, trains, and automobiles. Etc. Don't be so sure that they're only after certain 'kinds' of foreigners, such as Chinese and Russians. The stricter enforcement around border-runners and over-stayers shows that farangs are nothing special. Give them time. If they (the powers that now be) are aware that English language schools are doing dodgy things re teachers and student visas, there will likely be more visits from Immigration. The game has changed, and no-one should be complacent ...

Edited by brucetefl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But those schools are not breaking the law. They are licensed and can issue paperwork for non-immED visas.

IF THEY BECOME AWARE?

The Thai language schools are BLATANT in their selling of Education visas. have you seen some of their advertising?

STAY IN THAILAND

GET A LEGAL VISA

NO MORE VISA RUNS

study thai (DISCOUNT IF YOU DO NOT EVEN BOTHER TO SHOW UP FOR CLASS)

The reason I bring this up is because here we are on the "Teaching English in Thailand" forum and I've only heard of a few people ever getting "caught" teaching English without a work permit. And this is over 18 years experience in Thailand. So let's make one point very clear: these kinds of raids and checks are extremely rare. I think it would be fair to say that they almost never happen.

So with that established, let's discuss what does happen on the rare occasion that immigration visit to school and checks everyone for the legal status.

If immigration finds teachers in the school that do not have all documentation for legal work status, they put those teachers in a room and told him to sit down and wait. They then have a private discussion with the director of the school. Perhaps negotiation is the better term. The school director is told to get together some sum of money as a fine. The director will try to negotiate and eventually a figure will be agreed upon and that money will be handed over to the immigration officer. Once the director does a bank run, the teachers are then told they are free to go.

That's it.

Now on to the myth of deportation:

In all of my time in Thailand I have never heard of anyone being deported for working as an English teacher illegally. I've heard of a few teachers being deported, but it's always associated with something else that they've done, overstayed their visas by years, broken some significant law, or managed to get a very powerful enemy.

Does anyone else have any examples of English teachers being deported in the time they've lived in Thailand? Yet we all know there are tens of thousands of teachers teaching illegally here in the kingdom. Isn't it therefore pretty obvious that teachers teaching illegally do not get deported? Or even in any real trouble?

Every few days someone posts that they want to teach English in Thailand but for some reason, like a lack of a university degree, it's unlikely they can easily get legal status. And there are always dozens of posters warning about the dangers of deportation. One of the recent threads warned of possibly being deported for teaching as a volunteer in a small rural school.

Can we all agree that this is just a myth? A law that is obviously almost never enforced in Thailand.

You seem very confident about all this, but it's based on past experience. There's a new sheriff in town, and things have been changing fast. Whatever their real motivation might be, it appears that the coup-makers are intent on cleaning up the streets and getting people to do things by the book. They're clamping down on border runs, illegal taxis, buses, trains, and automobiles. Etc. Don't be so sure that they're only after certain 'kinds' of foreigners, such as Chinese and Russians. The stricter enforcement around border-runners and over-stayers shows that farangs are nothing special. Give them time. If they (the powers that now be) are aware that English language schools are doing dodgy things re teachers and student visas, there will likely be more visits from Immigration. The game has changed, and no-one should be complacent ...

Edited by Loaded

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suggest those whom have not gone through proper documentation on your present occupational status please do it fast or you would be sorry. You might be lucky in the past but luck does not stay forever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Off-topic posts deleted.

If a teacher starts the paperwork in March it is quite likely that they will be legal by May when school opens. Our visa person manages to get it done rather quickly. The biggest problem is that many people do not have all the documentation and then it starts taking time -- non native speakers need to take a TOEIC, some people don't have a copy of their transcript, etc..

The current situation means that these matters can no longer be done at a leisurely pace. People run into border issues after a few crossings and then the panic begins. I do know of one young lady who didn't get her paperwork finalized in time and she was give 7 days (I think it was 7 days) to leave the country, which she has now done. She had little recourse since the paperwork wasn't going to get done in 7 days.

In my experience, however, most people are not fully legal when they start work. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loaded, I never said Thai language schools were breaking the law. I was referring to the "impending" crackdown for people abusing the system. And certainly most people taking Thai language classes are doing so to abuse the system.

Because we all know those Thai students are going to class 2 hours every week (maybe) and the rest of the time they are sitting in their rooms not breaking any laws...

cheesy.gif

Edited by brucetefl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well upcountry, in 18 years that's the first time I've heard of anything like that happening. And like many such stories its 3rd person. Possible urban myth, which is exactly why I asked for any direct knowledge.this story may be true but I can't see the other teachers are allowing this to happen nor could I see the school ever managing to hire another teacher.

you are absolutely correct that it's best to have a legal visa and work permit, but people on this forum seems to really go overboard on the dangers volunteer teaching in a rural school.

In my three years as a teacher, I know personally of teachers working without a work permit, no, not me. I even know of one working with a tourist visa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think if people start a post they should reply to as many posts as they can. I hate it when people don’t answer questions others have bothered to ask them, about their related to posts. Thanks Bruce for staying with your post .

The question Bruce asked was how many people have had “first hand experience”. It’s a very good question, and to understand the present and the future it’s a good idea to know the past accurately.

I have been trying since the “costas2008” post to answer the same question. I am using Thai people to contact legal departments and government offices to find an answer. So far (1 week) I cannot get a simple straight answer.

Yes there are vague stories about other people, without school names, dates ect. But as Bruce has clearly asked how many people have had” first hand accounts”. When were YOU affected.

You can break whatever laws you want it’s your life. You can risk fines, deportation and jail it’s your life. But it’s nice to know the actual risk.

I think the visa run situation will finish all teachers on a tourist visa situation anyway .Others that hide behind a different type of visa, and still teach, need to know what is the true risk and punishment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A thread on Ajarn some years ago related the distressing tale of a school being raided and 2 teachers being arrested and deported.

I spoke with a teacher who was there at the time and he verified the event.

The school is on Phetkasem 69. I worked there for one day and I know the school provides work permits to teachers without degrees.

But in all my years here, it's the only time I've heard of it happening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you don't want to be constantly be looking over you shoulder, get legal.

If you don't want to pay (ahem) fines, get legal.

If you don't want to get locked up in a Thai jail, get legal.

It's not difficult.

I would have to disagree with it being easy to get legal in Thailand.

I'm just about to fork over 180,000 baht to study in order to work legally, doesn't sound too easy to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The school doesn't provide the work permit. It is the Ministry of Labor and I doubt they did it without the proper paperwork. Someone may have submitted fake documents. Or they could have been hired as something other than teachers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Deporting someone for not having a work permit would USUALLY require the officials to work backwards. Most people get caught for something such as fraud (documents), visa or passport issues. If you get deported for being on the wrong visa/fake visa etc., most people aren't going to acknowledge they are working and most immigration officers aren't going to pursue that issue. The Work Permit moves away from an immigration issue and moves into a Ministry of Labor issue.

They should work together, but coordination is not a strong point of most gov'ts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OP, you might incidentally be correct about this or that but your comments are wholly supposition, generalizations, and faulty reasoning. You make an observation based on the immediate event in your world that you experience, extrapolate that into a universal truth about teaching & immigration, then try to collect others to see your conclusion? You have no idea about teaching/immigration stats. Following your reasoning is dizzying.

Quite frankly, your a mess of shouting (see CAPS), defensiveness, and false logic. Good luck with your teaching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing to remember is that the country is now under Military rule and the military looks at things quite differently than does an elected gov't. Their accountability is different. They will never be elected to office. They also play a lot on nationalism and foreigners are nearly always a target when the nationalism card is played.

I would exercise extreme care in skirting the rules right now.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First or even second hand events are ok by me. Not "my freind told me about something that happened to his friends".

For the Phetsakem school, I am guessing a few things happened:

1. Director made someone mad by refusing to pay something.

2. School was issuing fake documents which then fell back on the teachers or the school encouaged them to create fake documents.

But even if it did happen, we are talking very rare. And Phetkasem is, in fact, 3rd hand information.

I think if people start a post they should reply to as many posts as they can. I hate it when people don’t answer questions others have bothered to ask them, about their related to posts. Thanks Bruce for staying with your post .

The question Bruce asked was how many people have had “first hand experience”. It’s a very good question, and to understand the present and the future it’s a good idea to know the past accurately.

I have been trying since the “costas2008” post to answer the same question. I am using Thai people to contact legal departments and government offices to find an answer. So far (1 week) I cannot get a simple straight answer.

Yes there are vague stories about other people, without school names, dates ect. But as Bruce has clearly asked how many people have had” first hand accounts”. When were YOU affected.

You can break whatever laws you want it’s your life. You can risk fines, deportation and jail it’s your life. But it’s nice to know the actual risk.

I think the visa run situation will finish all teachers on a tourist visa situation anyway .Others that hide behind a different type of visa, and still teach, need to know what is the true risk and punishment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ajunadawn....

Huh?

I LOVE CAPS

lol

Actually this thread is here to allow people, dozens, hundreds, THOUSANDS of people to contradict me. I will then slink away quietly after admitting my personal experience is incorrect.

But GUESS WHAT (including caps just to be annoying now hehe) it seems I was correct. So far not a single (see how nice I was to avoid caps there???) poster on this forum has had first or second hand experience with this happening. And a lot of people have viewed this thread.

So sorry, its your logic that needs a bit of a wake up call.

OP, you might incidentally be correct about this or that but your comments are wholly supposition, generalizations, and faulty reasoning. You make an observation based on the immediate event in your world that you experience, extrapolate that into a universal truth about teaching & immigration, then try to collect others to see your conclusion? You have no idea about teaching/immigration stats. Following your reasoning is dizzying.

Quite frankly, your a mess of shouting (see CAPS), defensiveness, and false logic. Good luck with your teaching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...