Online freelancer, long stay in Thailand

[LivinLOS]

 

 

What really irks me is the backbiting churlish responses from so many of the posters on thaivisa, if the ball was in the other court how many people who post that 500k bhat is nothing would really be willing to part with that much money themselves! It strikes me as shear jealousy and petty mindedness that there are people who were able to live here under retirement age, is working from your home country online really that detrimental to Thailand? Does this clamp down personally benefit those on different visa?

 

As for working online when I applied for my ED visa I was asked what I did for income I explained and showed them statements and they didn't seem to have a problem with it.

 

 

In a lot of the cases I would agree with you.. But in the case of people who simply refuse to become legal and pay their taxes, and invent reasons why they should be exempted from doing so, no I dont think thats petty or churlish.. 

 

Thailand has said what it wants.. If people want to work here theres a process to do it.. It has costs.. Dont want to face those costs then either leave Thailand or stop working. 

 

 

I'd be more than happy to pay tax here on my income here if that was possible, opening a business isn't viable a visa I'd have to employ 4 Thai people to essentially sit there and do nothing all day.

 

 

 

So start a contract under a BOI registered umbrella company.. End of problem. 

 

They take 30% of your turnover for income taxes, social security, vat processing, accounting, corporation taxes, lawyers fees and visa processing.. Bargain no ??? 

 

I mean, your more than happy to pay to be legal right ?? 

[Soutpeel]

 

 

What really irks me is the backbiting churlish responses from so many of the posters on thaivisa, if the ball was in the other court how many people who post that 500k bhat is nothing would really be willing to part with that much money themselves! It strikes me as shear jealousy and petty mindedness that there are people who were able to live here under retirement age, is working from your home country online really that detrimental to Thailand? Does this clamp down personally benefit those on different visa?

 

As for working online when I applied for my ED visa I was asked what I did for income I explained and showed them statements and they didn't seem to have a problem with it.

 

 

In a lot of the cases I would agree with you.. But in the case of people who simply refuse to become legal and pay their taxes, and invent reasons why they should be exempted from doing so, no I dont think thats petty or churlish.. 

 

Thailand has said what it wants.. If people want to work here theres a process to do it.. It has costs.. Dont want to face those costs then either leave Thailand or stop working. 

 

 

I'd be more than happy to pay tax here on my income here if that was possible, opening a business isn't viable a visa I'd have to employ 4 Thai people to essentially sit there and do nothing all day.

 

 

ok so lets say we forgo the 4 employee requirement

 

would you be prepared

 

Register a THB 1.0 or 2.0 million ltd company ?

Would you be prepared to pay unemployment fund constributions as well as private medical insurance

seeing as your business is being done offshore, be prepared to pay withholding tax in Thailand ?....lets say 20%

woudl you be prepared to have your books audited anually in order to get a WP ?

 

 

 

[LivinLOS]

 

If you get away from all the hysteria from the on liners...its just not fair, etc think about this in the cold light of day as to the loop hole something like this would create ?

 

To date nobody on this thread or the many others  that have been done over the years  has even come up up with a realisitc or practical solution of how something like this could be set up and and controlled in Thailand from both an immigration and a business perspective, it seems to me the on liners want something for nothing

 

 

I dont see it as that hard to set up, and in fact if they were proactive, had a one stop shop system to help integrate it.. They could really benefit by creating 'digital professional' class and managing the tax income.. The knock on effect in tech growth could really be useful. Its not all negative.. the idea that people cannot be self employed and only business activity is 'companies' is a bit old fashioned.. I have had 9 days of employment in my life, working for a company was never my way either. 

 

But yes it would take a major rethink, a shift in attitude also.. A kind of service mentality to it, to go along with the costs and taxation it gathered.

 

The problem is its been free for so long.. And so many of the people who say "I would happily pay to be legal" when told they can, suddenly become so much less happy to do so. 

Edited July 17, 2014 by LivinLOS

[anon676545345]

 

 

 

What really irks me is the backbiting churlish responses from so many of the posters on thaivisa, if the ball was in the other court how many people who post that 500k bhat is nothing would really be willing to part with that much money themselves! It strikes me as shear jealousy and petty mindedness that there are people who were able to live here under retirement age, is working from your home country online really that detrimental to Thailand? Does this clamp down personally benefit those on different visa?

 

As for working online when I applied for my ED visa I was asked what I did for income I explained and showed them statements and they didn't seem to have a problem with it.

 

 

In a lot of the cases I would agree with you.. But in the case of people who simply refuse to become legal and pay their taxes, and invent reasons why they should be exempted from doing so, no I dont think thats petty or churlish.. 

 

Thailand has said what it wants.. If people want to work here theres a process to do it.. It has costs.. Dont want to face those costs then either leave Thailand or stop working. 

 

 

I'd be more than happy to pay tax here on my income here if that was possible, opening a business isn't viable a visa I'd have to employ 4 Thai people to essentially sit there and do nothing all day.

 

 

 

So start a contract under a BOI registered umbrella company.. End of problem. 

 

They take 30% of your turnover for income taxes, social security, vat processing, accounting, corporation taxes, lawyers fees and visa processing.. Bargain no ??? 

 

I mean, your more than happy to pay to be legal right ?? 

 

 

Finally someones come up with an option that sounds feasable if that provides me with a legitimate way to secure a long term visa then yes I would pay 30%, I'd like to get more information on this.

 

[LivinLOS]

 

 

 

So start a contract under a BOI registered umbrella company.. End of problem. 

 

They take 30% of your turnover for income taxes, social security, vat processing, accounting, corporation taxes, lawyers fees and visa processing.. Bargain no ??? 

 

I mean, your more than happy to pay to be legal right ?? 

 

 

Finally someones come up with an option that sounds feasable if that provides me with a legitimate way to secure a long term visa then yes I would pay 30%, I'd like to get more information on this.
 

 

Send me your email or facebook.. I will link you to a BOI company who can do just this. 

[JLCrab]

Re forming a company and having to hire 4 Thai people to sit around and do nothing all day while you do your online work, how do you know that the Thai persons you might hire might not be better at doing your online work than you are?

 

BTW if you go the BOI/30% route as mentioned above I'd make sure a really good lawyer would look at a contract between you and the BOI to determine who would have the proprietary rights to any software/app etc. developed as the client is now in a legal arrangement directly with the BOI company.

Edited July 17, 2014 by JLCrab

[duanebigsby]

I believe there should be a work permit for online workers,
[/quote]
And creat a whole new cycle of visa abuse ?, the thing they are trying to crack down on right now you mean ?
 
If you get away from all the hysteria from the on liners...its just not fair, etc think about this in the cold light of day as to the loop hole something like this would create ?
 
To date nobody on this thread or the many others  that have been done over the years  has even come up up with a realisitc or practical solution of how something like this could be set up and and controlled in Thailand from both an immigration and a business perspective, it seems to me the on liners want something for nothing
 
All you ever get in these posts is its just not fair, its xenophobia, the laws are not keeping up with the times etc followed up by stamping of the feet and spitting the dummy...all complaining and whinging but never any solutions.

Why would it be visa abuse if there was a visa? How would it be a loophole if it was legit?
If someone could prove income, pay taxes in Thailand, and show a business history, these people could contribute to
Thailand. Far from me to suggest the country have some more visa categories, but the world has changed and maybe someone needs to look at online businesses. They're not all scammers.

I think many TV regulars who have retirement and marriage extensions are thumbing their noses at those looking for ways to stay.

[Soutpeel]

 

 

If you get away from all the hysteria from the on liners...its just not fair, etc think about this in the cold light of day as to the loop hole something like this would create ?

 

To date nobody on this thread or the many others  that have been done over the years  has even come up up with a realisitc or practical solution of how something like this could be set up and and controlled in Thailand from both an immigration and a business perspective, it seems to me the on liners want something for nothing

 

 

I dont see it as that hard to set up, and in fact if they were proactive, had a one stop shop system to help integrate it.. They could really benefit by creating 'digital professional' class and managing the tax income.. The knock on effect in tech growth could really be useful. Its not all negative.. the idea that people cannot be self employed and only business activity is 'companies' is a bit old fashioned.. I have had 9 days of employment in my life, working for a company was never my way either. 

 

But yes it would take a major rethink, a shift in attitude also.. A kind of service mentality to it, to go along with the costs and taxation it gathered.

 

The problem is its been free for so long.. And so many of the people who say "I would happily pay to be legal" when told they can, suddenly become so much less happy to do so. 

 

 

Of course the system could be changed, but it would require fundamental changes in the immigration, "labour" and business laws that are currently in place, it not just a case of "I am an onliner give me WP and I will give you 10% tax and I can live here as long as I want"... which is what the vast majority I suspect commenting want, if they actually believe this they are not the asute on liner enterprenurs they make they selves out to be on TV, in fact they are naive and stupid if they actually beleive the Thai goverment would let them do something like this

 

I understand your concept of creating a "digital professional class" but one suspects the "price" that comes with that will not make the average "on liner" in Thailand happy either

[Soutpeel]

 

 

I believe there should be a work permit for online workers,
[/quote]
And creat a whole new cycle of visa abuse ?, the thing they are trying to crack down on right now you mean ?
 
If you get away from all the hysteria from the on liners...its just not fair, etc think about this in the cold light of day as to the loop hole something like this would create ?
 
To date nobody on this thread or the many others  that have been done over the years  has even come up up with a realisitc or practical solution of how something like this could be set up and and controlled in Thailand from both an immigration and a business perspective, it seems to me the on liners want something for nothing
 
All you ever get in these posts is its just not fair, its xenophobia, the laws are not keeping up with the times etc followed up by stamping of the feet and spitting the dummy...all complaining and whinging but never any solutions.

Why would it be visa abuse if there was a visa? How would it be a loophole if it was legit?
If someone could prove income, pay taxes in Thailand, and show a business history, these people could contribute to
Thailand. Far from me to suggest the country have some more visa categories, but the world has changed and maybe someone needs to look at online businesses. They're not all scammers.

I think many TV regulars who have retirement and marriage extensions are thumbing their noses at those looking for ways to stay.

 

 

 

If someone could prove income, pay taxes in Thailand, and show a business history, these people could contribute to Thailand

 

you mean form a company in Thailand ?

 

Why would it be visa abuse if there was a visa? How would it be a loophole if it was legit?

 

Ed visa's are legitimate and look how they are abused

 

 

 

 

[mrtoad]

I would imagine that immigration just need to look at this forum to realise how rife the abuse of visas and overstays are

[LivinLOS]

 

 

Of course the system could be changed, but it would require fundamental changes in the immigration, "labour" and business laws that are currently in place,

 

 

I dont think we are in disagreement.. Its certainly not likely, and as you said, would probably be less appealing than people hope.. 

 

But does it take such a fundamental shift ?? Isnt there already a media visa class ?? And didnt I read someone on here once managed to get a media visa and work permit as a freelance journalist ?? 

 

So then adapt the media visa to cover the digital media and let it include all these bloggers and adsense etc incomes.. The hard part would be verifying incomes, but they could set minimum income levels / minimum taxation levels and collect on that.. It could be made to work without up ending the whole system. 

 

But right now its as tho the labor and immigration departments only see their role as restrictors.. their job to say no.. their role one of stopping things not enabling them. Thats the shift it would need to take. In all the years I have been here I have only ever seen the visa rules get worse, on every level.. Enforcement, minimum amounts, ages, family etc etc.. I really struggle to think of a single visa rule that has got better or easier ?? 

[johnsjourney]

 

 

What really irks me is the backbiting churlish responses from so many of the posters on thaivisa, if the ball was in the other court how many people who post that 500k bhat is nothing would really be willing to part with that much money themselves! It strikes me as shear jealousy and petty mindedness that there are people who were able to live here under retirement age, is working from your home country online really that detrimental to Thailand? Does this clamp down personally benefit those on different visa?

 

As for working online when I applied for my ED visa I was asked what I did for income I explained and showed them statements and they didn't seem to have a problem with it.

 

 

In a lot of the cases I would agree with you.. But in the case of people who simply refuse to become legal and pay their taxes, and invent reasons why they should be exempted from doing so, no I dont think thats petty or churlish.. 

 

Thailand has said what it wants.. If people want to work here theres a process to do it.. It has costs.. Dont want to face those costs then either leave Thailand or stop working. 

 

 

I'd be more than happy to pay tax here on my income here if that was possible, opening a business isn't viable a visa I'd have to employ 4 Thai people to essentially sit there and do nothing all day.

 

 

Under double taxation agreements taxable income in a western country is not claimable by Thailand, for example in the case of the UK regardless of how many days in a year are spent in Thailand.

 

A CEO of a large industrial corporation in Europe is going to be overseeing the business online while on holiday without a business visa or work permit in Phuket.  The evidence (ignoring opinions) is that longer term cases are not of interest to Thailand.  Over the years I have heard of many musicians sent out of Thailand, taking away Thai jobs, and no online workers.
 

[anon676545345]

Re forming a company and having to hire 4 Thai people to sit around and do nothing all day while you do your online work, how do you know that the Thai persons you might hire might not be better at doing your online work than you are?

 

BTW if you go the BOI/30% route as mentioned above I'd make sure a really good lawyer would look at a contract between you and the BOI to determine who would have the proprietary rights to any software/app etc. developed as the client is now in a legal arrangement directly with the BOI company.

 

Well it took me seven years a lot of courses and a lot of hard work and experience to be able to do this it would be difficult to find a Thai withrelavant experience it really wouldn't increase the amount I earn. I'll take a careful look into using a BOI It would give me a feeling of legitamacy being able to pay tax and put something into the economy of the country that I enjoy residing in.
 

[khunpa]

 

 

What really irks me is the backbiting churlish responses from so many of the posters on thaivisa, if the ball was in the other court how many people who post that 500k bhat is nothing would really be willing to part with that much money themselves! It strikes me as shear jealousy and petty mindedness that there are people who were able to live here under retirement age, is working from your home country online really that detrimental to Thailand? Does this clamp down personally benefit those on different visa?

 

As for working online when I applied for my ED visa I was asked what I did for income I explained and showed them statements and they didn't seem to have a problem with it.

 

 

In a lot of the cases I would agree with you.. But in the case of people who simply refuse to become legal and pay their taxes, and invent reasons why they should be exempted from doing so, no I dont think thats petty or churlish.. 

 

Thailand has said what it wants.. If people want to work here theres a process to do it.. It has costs.. Dont want to face those costs then either leave Thailand or stop working. 

 

 

I'd be more than happy to pay tax here on my income here if that was possible, opening a business isn't viable a visa I'd have to employ 4 Thai people to essentially sit there and do nothing all day.

 

 

Dont forget that if you do open a company, you can only own 49% of it ;-) So if you do invest 100%, you end of with 49% ownership and 4 Thai-people sitting doing nothing... Great setup! ;-)

[Soutpeel]

I would imagine that immigration just need to look at this forum to realise how rife the abuse of visas and overstays are

 

I imagine immigration do look at TV occassionally and do realise the extent of the abuse of the visa system, hence the reason they are cracking down, I really do think immigration and other Thai goverment departments do use TV as a source of information about what resident farangs are upto in Thailand, they would be silly if they didnt   

[JLCrab]

 

Re forming a company and having to hire 4 Thai people to sit around and do nothing all day while you do your online work, how do you know that the Thai persons you might hire might not be better at doing your online work than you are?

 

BTW if you go the BOI/30% route as mentioned above I'd make sure a really good lawyer would look at a contract between you and the BOI to determine who would have the proprietary rights to any software/app etc. developed as the client is now in a legal arrangement directly with the BOI company.

 

Well it took me seven years a lot of courses and a lot of hard work and experience to be able to do this it would be difficult to find a Thai withrelavant experience it really wouldn't increase the amount I earn. I'll take a careful look into using a BOI It would give me a feeling of legitamacy being able to pay tax and put something into the economy of the country that I enjoy residing in.
 

 

I don't know what you do and I don't really care but I think it rather smug that if you did hire 4 Thai persons that they would be only good for sitting around doing noting.

[JomtienEats]

Of course the system could be changed, but it would require fundamental changes in the immigration, "labour" and business laws that are currently in place, it not just a case of "I am an onliner give me WP and I will give you 10% tax and I can live here as long as I want"... which is what the vast majority I suspect commenting want, if they actually believe this they are not the asute on liner enterprenurs they make they selves out to be on TV, in fact they are naive and stupid if they actually beleive the Thai goverment would let them do something like this
 
I understand your concept of creating a "digital professional class" but one suspects the "price" that comes with that will not make the average "on liner" in Thailand happy either

I would think the most likely way this will be pursued is a relatively small change to the Elite program - a yearly payment rather than a 5 year lump sum, with a tacit understanding that it allows to holder to engage in work related to offshore interests.

[Soutpeel]

 

Of course the system could be changed, but it would require fundamental changes in the immigration, "labour" and business laws that are currently in place, it not just a case of "I am an onliner give me WP and I will give you 10% tax and I can live here as long as I want"... which is what the vast majority I suspect commenting want, if they actually believe this they are not the asute on liner enterprenurs they make they selves out to be on TV, in fact they are naive and stupid if they actually beleive the Thai goverment would let them do something like this
 
I understand your concept of creating a "digital professional class" but one suspects the "price" that comes with that will not make the average "on liner" in Thailand happy either

I would think the most likely way this will be pursued is a relatively small change to the Elite program - a yearly payment rather than a 5 year lump sum, with a tacit understanding that it allows to holder to engage in work related to offshore interests.

 

 

for a fact this route will not be persued... your dreaming

 

why should the on liner get a concession like that ?...what about the people in Thailand who might want work in Thailand and not have any offshore dealings..they are subject to the normal WP process then ?...  

 

and why should it be an annual payment, what relevance is that to on line employment ?

 

so what your saying you want to pay less money up front but with more concessions ? 

 

What about taxation, what about unemployment funds ?, what about audited books ?

 

your wanting something for nothing... the on liners on here keep stanting they are running businesses....what you have out lined about is not running a business, its a cheap way to a long term visa using online resources to finance your personal life in Thailand

 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2014 by Soutpeel

[DrTuner]

BTW if you go the BOI/30% route as mentioned above I'd make sure a really good lawyer would look at a contract between you and the BOI to determine who would have the proprietary rights to any software/app etc. developed as the client is now in a legal arrangement directly with the BOI company.

And to reserve exclusive rights to any references, patents and other IP (Intellectual Property). Also no sharing of the clients with the company, meaning a non-compete, etc,etc.

[JomtienEats]

for a fact this route will not be persued... your dreaming

Most likely development in the next few months in my opinion. You are, of course, entitled to yours.

[duanebigsby]

I believe there should be a work permit for online workers,
[/quote]
And creat a whole new cycle of visa abuse ?, the thing they are trying to crack down on right now you mean ?
 
If you get away from all the hysteria from the on liners...its just not fair, etc think about this in the cold light of day as to the loop hole something like this would create ?
 
To date nobody on this thread or the many others  that have been done over the years  has even come up up with a realisitc or practical solution of how something like this could be set up and and controlled in Thailand from both an immigration and a business perspective, it seems to me the on liners want something for nothing
 
All you ever get in these posts is its just not fair, its xenophobia, the laws are not keeping up with the times etc followed up by stamping of the feet and spitting the dummy...all complaining and whinging but never any solutions.
[/quote]
Why would it be visa abuse if there was a visa? How would it be a loophole if it was legit?
If someone could prove income, pay taxes in Thailand, and show a business history, these people could contribute to
Thailand. Far from me to suggest the country have some more visa categories, but the world has changed and maybe someone needs to look at online businesses. They're not all scammers.

I think many TV regulars who have retirement and marriage extensions are thumbing their noses at those looking for ways to stay.
[/quote]
[/quote]
 
If someone could prove income, pay taxes in Thailand, and show a business history, these people could contribute to Thailand
 
you mean form a company in Thailand ?
 
Why would it be visa abuse if there was a visa? How would it be a loophole if it was legit?
 
Ed visa's are legitimate and look how they are abused
[/quote]



Of course you can abuse a visa. You can borrow the money for retirement visa. You can have a sham wife, and you can have a bogus degree. Some people abuse the Ed visa.

So what? All I ever suggested, was that in these cases, perhaps a working online work permit might be feasible.
If the country decides no, ok...I'm fine with it. You seem to have this "I've got a real visa NaNaNaNa..Na attitude.

[Soutpeel]

[If the country decides no, ok...I'm fine with it. You seem to have this "I've got a real visa NaNaNaNa..Na attitude.

 
 
Actually if the truth be told, I dont have a visa for Thailand...

[duanebigsby]

[If the country decides no, ok...I'm fine with it. You seem to have this "I've got a real visa NaNaNaNa..Na attitude.

 
 
Actually if the truth be told, I dont have a visa for Thailand...

And how do you live here, or are all of your opinions from a long time ago or out of country? Edited July 17, 2014 by duanebigsby

[JomtienEats]

Actually if the truth be told, I dont have a visa for Thailand...

Well I hope you're not in Thailand. My strict interpretation of the rules is that these posts you make mean you are a volunteer, which requires a work permit if you are in Thailand. But then maybe you have difficulty understanding strict interpretrations of the rules when it applies to you rather than to someone else.

[Soutpeel]

 

 

[If the country decides no, ok...I'm fine with it. You seem to have this "I've got a real visa NaNaNaNa..Na attitude.

 
 
Actually if the truth be told, I dont have a visa for Thailand...

 

And how do you live here, or are all of you opinions from a long time ago or out of country?

 

 

how do I live here ?... in house and you ?

[duanebigsby]

[If the country decides no, ok...I'm fine with it. You seem to have this "I've got a real visa NaNaNaNa..Na attitude.

 
 
Actually if the truth be told, I dont have a visa for Thailand...

And how do you live here, or are all of you opinions from a long time ago or out of country?

 
how do I live here ?... in house and you ?

I was expecting more of answer like "on a work permit". You said you had no visa, explain please unless of course you have a Thai passport.

[Soutpeel]

I was expecting more of answer like "on a work permit". You said you had no visa, explain please unless of course you have a Thai passport.

 
 I dont have visa and havent had one for about 10 years

[LazyYogi]

 

 

 

So start a contract under a BOI registered umbrella company.. End of problem. 

 

They take 30% of your turnover for income taxes, social security, vat processing, accounting, corporation taxes, lawyers fees and visa processing.. Bargain no ??? 

 

I mean, your more than happy to pay to be legal right ?? 

 

 

Finally someones come up with an option that sounds feasable if that provides me with a legitimate way to secure a long term visa then yes I would pay 30%, I'd like to get more information on this.

 

 

 

i think the link in my earlier post might be want you want: http://iglu.in.th/work/

[Oceanbat]

 

I've attended packed conferences in Bangkok specifically for people who work online and live in Thailand. It's not uncommon at all and they don't have work permits. Thailand was on its way to becoming an online business startup hub, but now that's changing. They could make a lot of money by issuing freelancers special visas, but for some reason they're not interested. In fact, now I have no idea what they're interested in. I guess 50+ year old retirees spending their money on bar girls is preferred over young entrepreneurs. 

 
Young entrepreneurs?  How utterly comical.  Serious entrepreneurs with genuinely innovative ideas are not making visa runs and living in the shadows.  The people Thailand aims to get rid of are the nomads who don't even have the wherewithal or intelligence to find a legal way to stay.  They contribute nothing to Thai society, other than a few baht for rent and cheap noodles.   
 
 

 
Those individual IT consultants who work remotely (as in they can work from anywhere) for large corporations on 3-6 month contracts at between 150-200,000 baht a month you mean.    
 
Or the guys who builds and maintains the servers, front and backends for medium scale ecommerce websites and get paid 50,000 THB for a few hours of work a week.  
 
Yes I'm sure they spend nothing eating out in Bangkok, clubbing, shopping and renting their 65,000 baht a month condo.
 
Seems to me you have a very cynical view of what actually an IT specialist does.

I don't get this "they are injecting money into the economy so it should be allowed" argument. I can assure you the Australian government would not look too favorably on me not paying tax on my income because "I spend all my money". It's a strange logic. I pay 35% tax here and I am under no illusions anyone is grateful for my contributions.

OB


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[JomtienEats]

I don't get this "they are injecting money into the economy so it should be allowed" argument. I can assure you the Australian government would not look too favorably on me not paying tax on my income because "I spend all my money". It's a strange logic. I pay 35% tax here and I am under no illusions anyone is grateful for my contributions.

OB


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

It's just a question of scale. If there were enough Russian Billionaires wishing to settle in Sydney, then Austrilia would have a program to let them at less than a 35% tax rate, similar to the one the UK has on account of all the billionaires who want to live in London but not pay 40% tax.