Jump to content
BANGKOK
Sign in to follow this  
chappie1207

Halal processed food taking over our supermarkets...

Recommended Posts

Killing an animal should be fast, painless and effective!! Our industrialised killing of animals is acutally disgusting enough, but we all love our steaks so somehow it has to be done.

The thing is that the muslim or jewish style to kill the animals is intended to be "human" and not to torture them. Maybe this was an ok procedure some 100 years ago but nowadays there are better ways to do it and religion shouldn´t conflict with modern science.

I like to eat meat but I don´t want animals to suffer more than necessary. I grew up eating meat from local farmers and from my uncle´s farm, my family never liked to support the meat industry.

Halal style? unsure.png

Edited by I knew this would happen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A more interesting point to make is the associated 'cost' involved in Halal. My sister has been an educator in Australia for many years, teaching Home Economics, which of course includes a cooking class. She has now been "forced" to purchase Halal food against her own conscience. It goes like this...... If she does not purchase Halal food, then she is discriminating against students who are required to eat it. The school budget does not allow for the purchase of Halal, which IS more expensive. It also limits the curriculum she is then allowed to teach, certain recipes must be excluded as they can not be made Halal. My sister is a soft touch, and she like a lot of teachers, just takes the extra from her own pay packet and gets on with it. There are costs well beyond that people do not see. Last I checked multi-culturalism, does not mean bending to one way of thinking or a religion.

Oz

Edited by ozsamurai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A more interesting point to make is the associated 'cost' involved in Halal. My sister has been an educator in Australia for many years, teaching Home Economics, which of course includes a cooking class. She has now been "forced" to purchase Halal food against her own conscience. It goes like this...... If she does not purchase Halal food, then she is discriminating against students who are required to eat it. The school budget does not allow for the purchase of Halal, which IS more expensive. It also limits the curriculum she is then allowed to teach, certain recipes must be excluded as they can not be made Halal. My sister is a soft touch, and she like a lot of teachers, just takes the extra from her own pay packet and gets on with it. There are costs well beyond that people do not see. Last I checked multi-culturalism, does not mean bending to one way of thinking or a religion.

Oz

Let's see, she buys halal and all the kids in her class can participate. She doesn't, some kids miss out. One is catetering to everyone. One isn't.

You have strange definitions of 'bending one way or another'.

Funny no one here has a problem with kosher food or those with gluten intolerance. All you care about is instilled 'us and them' attitudes with kids, no less.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Paying xtra to accommodate a religion regardless of the religion is different than gluten... I can choose to not buy gluten free but can I buy religion free of the same product at a cheaper price?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A more interesting point to make is the associated 'cost' involved in Halal. My sister has been an educator in Australia for many years, teaching Home Economics, which of course includes a cooking class. She has now been "forced" to purchase Halal food against her own conscience. It goes like this...... If she does not purchase Halal food, then she is discriminating against students who are required to eat it. The school budget does not allow for the purchase of Halal, which IS more expensive. It also limits the curriculum she is then allowed to teach, certain recipes must be excluded as they can not be made Halal. My sister is a soft touch, and she like a lot of teachers, just takes the extra from her own pay packet and gets on with it. There are costs well beyond that people do not see. Last I checked multi-culturalism, does not mean bending to one way of thinking or a religion.

Oz

Let's see, she buys halal and all the kids in her class can participate. She doesn't, some kids miss out. One is catetering to everyone. One isn't.

You have strange definitions of 'bending one way or another'.

Funny no one here has a problem with kosher food or those with gluten intolerance. All you care about is instilled 'us and them' attitudes with kids, no less.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Paying xtra to accommodate a religion regardless of the religion is different than gluten... I can choose to not buy gluten free but can I buy religion free of the same product at a cheaper price?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Religion free product clap2.gif That´s the next big thing smile.png

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A more interesting point to make is the associated 'cost' involved in Halal. My sister has been an educator in Australia for many years, teaching Home Economics, which of course includes a cooking class. She has now been "forced" to purchase Halal food against her own conscience. It goes like this...... If she does not purchase Halal food, then she is discriminating against students who are required to eat it. The school budget does not allow for the purchase of Halal, which IS more expensive. It also limits the curriculum she is then allowed to teach, certain recipes must be excluded as they can not be made Halal. My sister is a soft touch, and she like a lot of teachers, just takes the extra from her own pay packet and gets on with it. There are costs well beyond that people do not see. Last I checked multi-culturalism, does not mean bending to one way of thinking or a religion.

Oz

Let's see, she buys halal and all the kids in her class can participate. She doesn't, some kids miss out. One is catetering to everyone. One isn't.

You have strange definitions of 'bending one way or another'.

Funny no one here has a problem with kosher food or those with gluten intolerance. All you care about is instilled 'us and them' attitudes with kids, no less.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Paying xtra to accommodate a religion regardless of the religion is different than gluten... I can choose to not buy gluten free but can I buy religion free of the same product at a cheaper price?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

how is it paying extra? Is vegemite now more expensive now it has a halal certification? Are Tim Tams? Show me where there has been meteoric rises in food costs because of this?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the past TAT has been heavily promoting Thailand in the oil producing country's ,These tourists spend top dollar in Thailand the kind of tourists they want.So i can see why the need for halal food to accomodate said tourists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A more interesting point to make is the associated 'cost' involved in Halal. My sister has been an educator in Australia for many years, teaching Home Economics, which of course includes a cooking class. She has now been "forced" to purchase Halal food against her own conscience. It goes like this...... If she does not purchase Halal food, then she is discriminating against students who are required to eat it. The school budget does not allow for the purchase of Halal, which IS more expensive. It also limits the curriculum she is then allowed to teach, certain recipes must be excluded as they can not be made Halal. My sister is a soft touch, and she like a lot of teachers, just takes the extra from her own pay packet and gets on with it. There are costs well beyond that people do not see. Last I checked multi-culturalism, does not mean bending to one way of thinking or a religion.

Oz

Let's see, she buys halal and all the kids in her class can participate. She doesn't, some kids miss out. One is catetering to everyone. One isn't.

You have strange definitions of 'bending one way or another'.

Funny no one here has a problem with kosher food or those with gluten intolerance. All you care about is instilled 'us and them' attitudes with kids, no less.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Paying xtra to accommodate a religion regardless of the religion is different than gluten... I can choose to not buy gluten free but can I buy religion free of the same product at a cheaper price?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

how is it paying extra? Is vegemite now more expensive now it has a halal certification? Are Tim Tams? Show me where there has been meteoric rises in food costs because of this?

So you are sure there are no extra costs associated with these certifications?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A more interesting point to make is the associated 'cost' involved in Halal. My sister has been an educator in Australia for many years, teaching Home Economics, which of course includes a cooking class. She has now been "forced" to purchase Halal food against her own conscience. It goes like this...... If she does not purchase Halal food, then she is discriminating against students who are required to eat it. The school budget does not allow for the purchase of Halal, which IS more expensive. It also limits the curriculum she is then allowed to teach, certain recipes must be excluded as they can not be made Halal. My sister is a soft touch, and she like a lot of teachers, just takes the extra from her own pay packet and gets on with it. There are costs well beyond that people do not see. Last I checked multi-culturalism, does not mean bending to one way of thinking or a religion.

Oz

Let's see, she buys halal and all the kids in her class can participate. She doesn't, some kids miss out. One is catetering to everyone. One isn't.

You have strange definitions of 'bending one way or another'.

Funny no one here has a problem with kosher food or those with gluten intolerance. All you care about is instilled 'us and them' attitudes with kids, no less.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Paying xtra to accommodate a religion regardless of the religion is different than gluten... I can choose to not buy gluten free but can I buy religion free of the same product at a cheaper price?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

how is it paying extra? Is vegemite now more expensive now it has a halal certification? Are Tim Tams? Show me where there has been meteoric rises in food costs because of this?

So you are sure there are no extra costs associated with these certifications?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sure there are. But ask yourself, why are they getting certified? To sell more product. Take the simple example of Tim Tams, you get a certificate Indonesia is suddenly open to you as a market. You sell more.

Basic economics, sell more and average unit costs of production go down, not up. Economies of scale. The small investment in certification pays off in a larger market.

Generally you can take for granted that your average bigot is also an Economic illiterate. This isn't any different.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure there are. But ask yourself, why are they getting certified? To sell more product. Take the simple example of Tim Tams, you get a certificate Indonesia is suddenly open to you as a market. You sell more.

Basic economics, sell more and average unit costs of production go down, not up. Economies of scale. The small investment in certification pays off in a larger market.

Generally you can take for granted that your average bigot is also an Economic illiterate. This isn't any different.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Ok makes sense in markets that are predomiently one religeon or another - however what about in countries say TH for example that are 95% non-muslim.. Should the 95% have to buy Halal or Kosher food products? Should these products not be CLEARLY labelled as such. I don't think the onus should be on the avg Thai consumer to look at the back of every product to the fine print to see if it is or is not..

I can remember from my time in Dubai that one could buy pork / non Halal products in some supermarkets - in dedicated sections only...just seems to be a double standard... Not sure where you are going with the Bigot statement...

Edited by bkkjames

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure there are. But ask yourself, why are they getting certified? To sell more product. Take the simple example of Tim Tams, you get a certificate Indonesia is suddenly open to you as a market. You sell more.

Basic economics, sell more and average unit costs of production go down, not up. Economies of scale. The small investment in certification pays off in a larger market.

Generally you can take for granted that your average bigot is also an Economic illiterate. This isn't any different.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Ok makes sense in markets that are predomiently one religeon or another - however what about in countries say TH for example that are 95% non-muslim.. Should the 95% have to buy Halal or Kosher food products? Should these products not be CLEARLY labelled as such. I don't think the onus should be on the avg Thai consumer to look at the back of every product to the fine print to see if it is or is not..

I can remember from my time in Dubai that one could buy pork / non Halal products in some supermarkets - in dedicated sections only...just seems to be a double standard... Not sure where you are going with the Bigot statement...

So you are basically disagreeing with providing transparent clear information about the nature of a product so consumers know what they are buying. You are having a laugh aren't you?

I don't think a producer who sells exclusively in Thailand or Australia is going to get certification unless they believe it is worth their while. But, the OP was talkng about Tesco. Global company, with global suppliers. They sell far far further afield than just Thailand. Malaysia is just across the border. Indoneisa is a stones throw away. For them, it is just common business sense to have their product available to the widest audience possible. (again, just to note, Thailand has 4 million muslims. You'd be a fool not to try and cater to them).

There seems to be an underlying theme here that somehow your food suppliers have been 'forced into this'. Can't be further from the truth. Commercial enterprises are nothing but pragmatists. If it involves there being a short prayer being said invoking the name of god before an animal is slaughtered with a sharp knife, then they'll do it.

If it means them puting a 'halal certified' on a pack of Kit Kats, then they'll do it.

The bigot comment is pretty clear. People runing around saying 'prices are rising, prices are rising' with absolutely no evidence. In fact, their claims can only be contrary to basic economics, which I've already outlined.

Edited by samran

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since we are talking Australia I can only give you hard details about her situation. Safeway or Coles, are the two major chains of supermarkets. They do not sell only Halal products, despite.

Australia is one of the largest meat exporters in the world and is a world leader in halal production. One of its largest export markets is the United States of America, and Australian meat is widely sold all over America in numerous butchers, restaurants, and retailers. The majority of this meat is labeled as ‘halal’ and certified by a Halal organization in Australia. The halal meat industry in America is largely unregulated and there is widespread abuse in the usage of ‘halal’ labels and ‘halal’ certificates. For this reason, it is extremely important for the Muslim community in America to verify the halal status of Australian meat and obtain first-hand information on the halal process in Australia.

So, a simple purchase of any meat requires a specialist butcher be used, which are not 'market price', which is what the school budget allows for. So clearly it is more expensive. Two stores, petrol, time and the cost. I thought perhaps that was self evident.

At what point does the exclusion of a student constitute discrimination? If you have a classroom of 30 and 1 needs Halal or 10 or 26? where is the line drawn? Simply put, it is 1. For if that student can no longer participate in the educational activity due to the inability of the school to provide Halal, in a non-muslim country, that would be blatant discrimination. So, all students must fall in line to meet the needs of one. Freedom of religion is our personal choice and one all our democracies fight to defend, my objection is not anti-muslim, but ant-institutionalization of anyone's religious practices. Should we be made to wear the burkha now to respect our fellow "Aussies"

Oz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since we are talking Australia I can only give you hard details about her situation. Safeway or Coles, are the two major chains of supermarkets. They do not sell only Halal products, despite.

Australia is one of the largest meat exporters in the world and is a world leader in halal production. One of its largest export markets is the United States of America, and Australian meat is widely sold all over America in numerous butchers, restaurants, and retailers. The majority of this meat is labeled as ‘halal’ and certified by a Halal organization in Australia. The halal meat industry in America is largely unregulated and there is widespread abuse in the usage of ‘halal’ labels and ‘halal’ certificates. For this reason, it is extremely important for the Muslim community in America to verify the halal status of Australian meat and obtain first-hand information on the halal process in Australia.

So, a simple purchase of any meat requires a specialist butcher be used, which are not 'market price', which is what the school budget allows for. So clearly it is more expensive. Two stores, petrol, time and the cost. I thought perhaps that was self evident.

At what point does the exclusion of a student constitute discrimination? If you have a classroom of 30 and 1 needs Halal or 10 or 26? where is the line drawn? Simply put, it is 1. For if that student can no longer participate in the educational activity due to the inability of the school to provide Halal, in a non-muslim country, that would be blatant discrimination. So, all students must fall in line to meet the needs of one. Freedom of religion is our personal choice and one all our democracies fight to defend, my objection is not anti-muslim, but ant-institutionalization of anyone's religious practices. Should we be made to wear the burkha now to respect our fellow "Aussies"

Oz

Great, can I only have blond hair and blue eyes to be be considered an Aussie? Better hand by passport back then.

There is a massive flaw and contradiction in your argument. You can't be at once one of the largest exporters of hahal meat in the world and a world leader in production of halal meat and all this happen in a 'specialist butcher'.

Edited by samran

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure there are. But ask yourself, why are they getting certified? To sell more product. Take the simple example of Tim Tams, you get a certificate Indonesia is suddenly open to you as a market. You sell more.

Basic economics, sell more and average unit costs of production go down, not up. Economies of scale. The small investment in certification pays off in a larger market.

Generally you can take for granted that your average bigot is also an Economic illiterate. This isn't any different.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Ok makes sense in markets that are predomiently one religeon or another - however what about in countries say TH for example that are 95% non-muslim.. Should the 95% have to buy Halal or Kosher food products? Should these products not be CLEARLY labelled as such. I don't think the onus should be on the avg Thai consumer to look at the back of every product to the fine print to see if it is or is not..

I can remember from my time in Dubai that one could buy pork / non Halal products in some supermarkets - in dedicated sections only...just seems to be a double standard... Not sure where you are going with the Bigot statement...

So you are basically disagreeing with providing transparent clear information about the nature of a product so consumers know what they are buying. You are having a laugh aren't you?

I don't think a producer who sells exclusively in Thailand or Australia is going to get certification unless they believe it is worth their while. But, the OP was talkng about Tesco. Global company, with global suppliers. They sell far far further afield than just Thailand. Malaysia is just across the border. Indoneisa is a stones throw away. For them, it is just common business sense to have their product available to the widest audience possible. (again, just to note, Thailand has 4 million muslims. You'd be a fool not to try and cater to them).

There seems to be an underlying theme here that somehow your food suppliers have been 'forced into this'. Can't be further from the truth. Commercial enterprises are nothing but pragmatists. If it involves there being a short prayer being said invoking the name of god before an animal is slaughtered with a sharp knife, then they'll do it.

If it means them puting a 'halal certified' on a pack of Kit Kats, then they'll do it.

The bigot comment is pretty clear. People runing around saying 'prices are rising, prices are rising' with absolutely no evidence. In fact, their claims can only be contrary to basic economics, which I've already outlined.

Well we will differ in our opinion and leave it at that - I won't lower myself to petty namecalling out of respect of your Special TV status. coffee1.gif

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-17960.html

A discussion thread of Muslims in Australia, verifying the in-availability of Halal meat. Take it from the horse's mouth. There is no contradiction. Although as a major producer of Halal meat, it is not abundant on our shelves.

Here is the full article link

http://halaladvocates.net/site/our-resources/australia/

As to your comment about blonde hair and blue eyes, now that's just racist, and in that case I would love to personally burn your passport myself!

Oz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...