Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[skippybangkok]

Part 2

Interesting day. Did the police thingy, showed up at the office with passport / tabien baan / little alien residence certificate book, photocopies, photo's and cash 1,200 baht.

Was lucky, they were nice to me and did it on the spot. So, have now the little black book ( immigration ) and the red book ( police) ( which looks like it was from about anno 1940 ). they said "must take it with you at all times", but then went on to say take a copy, and keep original at home. Can see it taking one day though, as there are alot of documents to fill out ( like every pitstop i go)

Then off to Tabien baan place. First lady quite condescending, lecturing me like a little kid and how if i was very lucky, I might just be able to get an interview this week. Guess she has to learn the ways of the world still. Made a few calls, and my documents were promptly taken out of her hands to a most polite and helpful person who is getting me on the interview schedule in the next 1 or 2 days. Hope I dont have to run back an forwards as CDB ( saying little prayer now )

Part 3

Stay tuned

Edited July 23, 2007 by skippybangkok

[CDB]

My own update is that I have now gotten my house registration back with my name on it, leaving in theory only the following tasks:

1) change of status from "resident" to "head of household" (District office)

2) Get my resident book endorsed for travel and multiple re-entry permit (Immigration)

Except I have a new issue: my House Registration book and Alien Registration book both show the wrong date of birth for me, claiming I was born in July instead of February. This is bound to cause problems. Clearly the police officer mistranscribed or misread my date of birth, as the Thai initials for Febraury and July both start with Gor Gai...

So I guess that will mean two more trips to sort that out. The District Officer people are by far the most annoying and officious. My girlfriend actually pointed out to them that they had the wrong date of birth before taking back my book, and showed them a copy of my passport. She was told that was irrelevant because they had to follow the Alien Registration book....

So I'll go back and edit my other post to advice double checking everything they write into the books...

[skippybangkok]

Part 3

Well, Tabien Baan was the least efficient as I am seeing also with CBD (thanks for your IM aswell ). Sumbitted copies of passport, work permit, the little black book (from immigration - Alien Certification or something like that ) and the big red book from the Police , + yellow Tabien Baan + pics at City Hall.

Was told to go on day x at 1pm for interview/ investigation , arrived on time, only to be told that Nai had a urgent meeting outside, but never fear, I would get the blue book as i looked like a citizen of good standing ( the last few words were my assumptions ). Fortunately I did not have to go back wards and forwards as CBD did, but I am pretty sure his was the "offical" route, and mine was the "lite" version. ( luck of the draw and i did not complain in any way).

As per a previous OP, I noticed I was put as "Jao Baan", and as such, falangs can be Jao Baan. ( I did not even ask, so long as my name was some where on that blue book was all I cared about ).

Last trip to immigration soon to complete the process.

From my take on it, as per previous OP, if you can get this done in one week, your lucky !. The system seems like it was designed 40 years ago, adding new forms and paper work every year, and no one really sitting up and asking can it be simplified. All the staff I met were complaining about the amount of paper work, and I could not disagree with them.

Part 4

Stay tuned - almost there

Edited July 26, 2007 by skippybangkok

[samran]

hey, I am a citizen and it took two or three trips to the ampur to get it right. You aren't alone!

[skippybangkok]

Part 4 (and 5 )

Went to Suanplu with

1. Alien Certificate book ( u know, the little black one )

2. The Police book ( massive Red one)

3. Tabien Baan (Blue)

4. Passport

5. Work Permit ( just in case)

6. Photo copies / and More Money ( a little less than 6000 for multiple re-entry ). (dont forget pictures )

Went to room 202, and had to rush out to take some pics ( lost them ). Not quite sure what they did while i was out taking pics as they did not seem too interested in the proud documents I had aquired ( item 2 and 3) since last seeing them, or maybe they had processed it before i got back.

They helped me fill out the re-entry, had a nice chit chat, and then went to the front counter to pay the (almost) 6000 baht. Strange that they need about 4 hours or more to stamp all the thingies, so i left it with a girl from work who helps out on the re-entry stuff.

Part 5 is the work permit extension, in my case the girl from work is going to the labour dept next week to complete that part.

Guess I am all done now, and PERMANENT.

As a summary of my experience, people have been courteous and helpfull ( except Tabien baan place, but that sounds like the norm ). Never had one problem, except there is a enormous amount of paper work to be filled out and all kind of documents required. One really needs some time to organize the paper work pre-approval, and running around for a week or so once approved to complete the process.

In terms of costs, the 191,400 Baht in my case was only one part of it, i did not count the money spend on getting required police checks, certifications and translations, taxis for staff, book at police station, and multi entry visa ( I needed about 3 because they kept on extending for 6 months every time instead of once per year) etc.... but i recon you could budget another 50,000 baht easily for the miscellaneous things.

Best wishes for any one else following next year, and smile and be patient and it will all work out sooner or later.

THE END

[samran]

good work, skip.

[TheChiefJustice]

Well done, Skippy! Welcome to the PR Club. Now when you enter and leave Thailand you can use the Thai passport line. I was told that as a Thai PR you are actually supposed to use the Thai line, but I often use the foreign line if the Thai line is busy. Nice to have the choice. Also, when you leave you must always have your re-entry in your PR book (which you need to take with you when you travel).

Edited July 27, 2007 by TheChiefJustice

[skippybangkok]

Well done, Skippy! Welcome to the PR Club. Now when you enter and leave Thailand you can use the Thai passport line. I was told that as a Thai PR you are actually supposed to use the Thai line, but I often use the foreign line if the Thai line is busy. Nice to have the choice. Also, when you leave you must always have your re-entry in your PR book (which you need to take with you when you travel).

Thanks for the wishes, and next week traveling for first time as a PR-er. I kinda used the Thai channel alot before anyway, they never really said much, except for on a few occasions. As for stamps, there will be one stamp in my passport for multi entry, and one in the little black Alien Certificate book ?

When going out and in, do they stamp both, or just the passport ?

[camerata]

As for stamps, there will be one stamp in my passport for multi entry, and one in the little black Alien Certificate book ?

When going out and in, do they stamp both, or just the passport ?

They stamp both. Earlier on in this topic a user mentioned one time when they forgot to stamp his residence book and he got fined for it later. So it's worth checking.

[camerata]

I remember when I got my first PR re-entry permit the people in Room 202 were happy to help me fill out the form, which is all in Thai. But I got the impression they would only help the first time. Like an idiot I didn't make a copy of it for future use. Has anyone managed to get help from Immigration filling in the form on subsequent years?

[skippybangkok]

Thanks about the stamps heads up. At the rate I travel, that little book will be filled quickly, but no full pages visa's in the book, so it might go slower..... yes, they did fill the form out for me.

[FOURX]

I was interviewed in February this year, and when I went back to Immigration in June to have my 'permit to stay' extended for another six months, they pointed out that one document in my submission had not been certified correctly. I was with the guy from my office, who dealt with this as soon as he could. No problem.

Then, while I am away on holiday in the UK, two more letters arrive, asking for 5 more documents, which are not on their list of required stuff! They want to see the letter offering me my job (nearly 9 years ago!), and more comprehensive tax returns from my employer. They seem to be moving the goalposts . . .

Has this happened to anyone else in this round of applications?

G

Yes, I was asked for a DNA test for myself and the family, my original employment contract (from 7 years ago) and re-confirmation of my 2006 salary / tax from my employer (again!). It seems that the applicatiions have moved on to another officer / section.

[grtaylor]

I was interviewed in February this year, and when I went back to Immigration in June to have my 'permit to stay' extended for another six months, they pointed out that one document in my submission had not been certified correctly. I was with the guy from my office, who dealt with this as soon as he could. No problem.

Then, while I am away on holiday in the UK, two more letters arrive, asking for 5 more documents, which are not on their list of required stuff! They want to see the letter offering me my job (nearly 9 years ago!), and more comprehensive tax returns from my employer. They seem to be moving the goalposts . . .

Has this happened to anyone else in this round of applications?

G

Yes, I was asked for a DNA test for myself and the family, my original employment contract (from 7 years ago) and re-confirmation of my 2006 salary / tax from my employer (again!). It seems that the applicatiions have moved on to another officer / section.

ok - with the exception of the DNA test (I'm single) thats what I was asked for.

[cosmont]

After have read 21 pages, I decided to do not apply.

They will ask a DNA test of my baby ??? and what else more ???

No way !

They should have a look in dictionnary about the meaning of the word : XENOPHOBIA

[samran]

After have read 21 pages, I decided to do not apply.

They will ask a DNA test of my baby ??? and what else more ???

No way !

They should have a look in dictionnary about the meaning of the word : XENOPHOBIA

please keep your perceived critisisms of motives behind the PR process elsewhere or in another thread. This is meant to be an informative thread for those who are interested in applying.

You are being publically warned.

[KamnanT]

I've run into a potential roadblock here. Having applied for and received a 30-day extension to appear at Suan Phlu (my daughter was spending time overseas), last week I gathered all the necessary documents and was intending to get the ball rolling down at Immigration on Thursday morning. Popped in to see my apartment building manager to ask (for the third time) for the tabien baan so that I could make a copy for the owner to sign. She informs me that the owner has declined to provide it on the basis that no other tenant in her 25 years of owning the building has ever asked to be included on the tabien baan and she doesn't see why I'm any different. The concept of permanent residence (and the requirement for permanent residents to be registered in a tabien baan) has been explained to her but she's not budging. Not sure if she's looking for money or what.

Speaking to the company's immigration lawyer, it would appear that this is another Thai Catch-22: the immigration law requires alien residents to be registered, but their is no law compelling landlords to register tenants on their tabien baan - it's entirely voluntary.

I suppose moving is an option but it's unlikely to happen in time and there's no guarantee my next landlord would be any more accomodating. The building manager, who has been very sympathetic, has offered me a potential way out: she says she owns a few condos herself and she would be happy to register my family (4 of us) in one of her tabien baan. Quite a generous offer, in that this will essentially require her to be less than completely truthful when we visit the amphur office.

It's all a bit counter-productive when you think about it. The whole tabien baan thing is, I would assume, at least partly designed to keep track of who is living where. But because the law does not compel landowners to register tenants, a very large slice of the population (both foreign and Thai) is living somewhere other than the address at which they are registered.

[simon43]

I don't think registering you on the TB of another person is a big issue. My wife from Isaan is registered with her family on the TB of the guy who built our hotel swimming pool! (This was because we hadn't finished building our hotel and therefore couldn't get a TB for the hotel....)

Simon

[samran]

kamnan- just find someone else who is willing to register you. A friend of mine before he bought his condo got his name registered at his bosses place.

I myself am registered at my uncles place miles from were I live.

[KamnanT]

I don't think registering you on the TB of another person is a big issue. My wife from Isaan is registered with her family on the TB of the guy who built our hotel swimming pool! (This was because we hadn't finished building our hotel and therefore couldn't get a TB for the hotel....)

Simon

You don't think it will raise eyebrows down at Suan Phlu if I present a tabien baan with a different address than the one used throughout the application process so far?

Edited August 6, 2007 by KamnanT

[samran]

I don't think registering you on the TB of another person is a big issue. My wife from Isaan is registered with her family on the TB of the guy who built our hotel swimming pool! (This was because we hadn't finished building our hotel and therefore couldn't get a TB for the hotel....)

Simon

You don't think it will raise eyebrows down at Suan Phlu if I present a tabien baan with a different address than the one used throughout the application process so far?

If they ask, tell them you moved..

When I went for my ID card I was asked/coached by the lady who did the paperwork as to where I lived. I said Sukhumvit while by ID says 'baan nok'. She told me, "no, you live at Baan Nok now" and smiled.

[skippybangkok]

Not sure, but some OP' said they received a visit from the officers of 301 to verify residence ( true or not ). If you place of residence and tabien baan dont match, will that be an issue ?

Dont know, just a thought.

[grtaylor]

Bumping this up to the top again. Why is this thread, and others, no longer "pinned" at the top?

G

[samran]

Bumping this up to the top again. Why is this thread, and others, no longer "pinned" at the top?

G

there is a pinned topic with links to all the relevant citizenship and residency threads. Putting to many posts in the pinned section crowds out room for legit (and not so legit ) questions about visas.

[grtaylor]

Bumping this up to the top again. Why is this thread, and others, no longer "pinned" at the top?

G

there is a pinned topic with links to all the relevant citizenship and residency threads. Putting to many posts in the pinned section crowds out room for legit (and not so legit ) questions about visas.

Oops - sorry, hadn't spotted that.

G

[KamnanT]

An update one week later on the slow and torturous process of getting all the books and stamps. A cooperative friend agreed to let me use his tabien baan for the house registration phase, so last Thursday the whole family (hubbie, wife, two kids) all trooped down to Suan Phlu. Usual stack of paper: approval letters, photocopies of passports (every page, including arrival/departure card and last 90 day report receipt), a dozen photographs each, certified copy of tabien baan and, of course, a cashier's cheque for the fee: one primary applicant at 191,400 baht and three dependents at 95,700 each. That's 428,500 baht. Serious dosh in any country.

Arrived at 10am and the sole officer in Room 301 says they're all going off for a meeting, could be back before lunch, might not be. I pointed to the kids and made a plea for mercy - they would go nuts hanging around this dungeon for three hours. He grudgingly consented to look at our paperwork...his part being to look up our names on the list and tell us to go down to a room (202?) on the second floor.

In room 202, documents are examined, photos stuck on forms, signatures and fingerprints taken from everyone. Some debate amongst ourselves and the officers about Thai spellings of our names. Our surname has (in my humble opinion) been misspelt in the original affadavit that was completed at the time of the application. They agree to correct it...but oops, the same incorrect spelling is on my son's Thai birth certificate. So I'm offered a choice: accept the incorrect spelling for all time or go and get his birth certificate changed first. I could only imagine the hours and days that would be wasted doing that, so option "A" prevailed.

Just when we think this might all end efficiently, a fatal flaw is discovered. There is only one cashier's cheque for the total amount. The two case officers insist that they need four separate cheques, one for each application. I politely ask why, given that the money is (at least in theory) all going to the same place - the Thai public purse (stop giggling everyone). They are insistent...but they have a helpful suggestion. I have presented a Bangkok Bank cashier's cheque and there is a branch of the Bangkok Bank just down Soi Suan Phlu, so why don't I go over there and get cash for them? Right. I'm going to give almost half a million baht in cash to someone dressed in brown (little known fact: Royal Thai Police uniforms are white when issued, but the ink rubs off all those 1,000 baht notes).

So I explain to the officers that the cheque is payable to the Bangkok Immigration Division and as a result, I cannot cash it. The best I could do would be to return to my own branch, get the cashier's cheque cancelled and have four new cheques drawn. This would take a day or two. More pleading...is there any way we can handle this today? Finally, it is agreed that four photocopies of the cheque will be made and one inserted in each file with a meticulous handwritten note explaining why the amount of the cheque is not the same as the amount of the fee. It is made clear to me [A] that I have been done a tremendous favour and that today is the birthday of one of the case officers. If I am a civilised person, I will express my appreciation in some material way when I return to pick up the Resident Certificates on Friday.

Friday, I return (sans family) with a basket of fruit for the birthday girl and Resident Certificates are obtained. The Immigration officers meticulously explain that we have 7 days to apply for Alien Registration books for myself and my wife at our local police station. As both of our children are under 12 years of age, they will not be required to apply for Alien Registration books until their 12th birthdays - but they must apply within 7 days of turning 12 or they are in violation of the law.

So, we leave the kids at home with the housekeeper and head over to the station (one hour in traffic). The officer responsible is, of course, not there, but another helpful officer can collect the details and complete the applications. First question: "Where are your children?". Well, at home, of course, because they don't need Alien Registration books. "True, but they still need to register even though they don't get a book." DOH!! "But that's OK, let's get started on yours and you can bring the kids in later." The officer is a kind and gentle man, but not the sharpest tool in the box. Completes the applications at a glacial pace, checking each fact over and over and using a calculator to convert A.D. to B.E. He has a photocopy of a previous application that he keeps referring to as a cheat sheet on how to do this one. Not surprising, I guess - our books are numbered 13/2550 and 14/2550, so I guess not a lot of people come in for these things. It takes 90 minutes to complete the applications and take yet more fingerprints.

Monday was a public holiday, Tuesday our officer was not going to be in the office, Wednesday he could complete the books so it was agreed that we would return on Thursday to pick up the books and complete the registration process for the kids. Arrived today at 10am and went through another hour of form filling (this time with a typewriter whereas last week was handwritten...who knows?). Received our books, which are an incredible piece of antiquity: I'm guessing they were printed in the early 70s. The Thai typeface is classic, but I haven't seen a font like as far back as I can remember.

Only one more step to go, but the one that previous posters have said is the most bureaucratic: house registration. We tried to make an appointment at the amphur office for tomorrow but they insist they are far too busy with this weekend's upcoming referendum on the Constitution. I can believe that. So maybe Wednesday, maybe not....call back next week. But not on Monday, because that's a holiday.

[skippybangkok]

An update one week later ...................

Hang in there, its a hassle, but ur almost there.

For the record, made my first flight. Going out, immigration took for ever to check and stamp everything, my impression he does not do it alot as was somewhat miffed.

Coming back in, came through the Thai channel. Asked the officer if this was the correct channel, and not even a yes or a no.... just total silence.

The departure and entry cards are the same for thai ( reverse of what we are used to ). So, u fill out a new card on exit, keep half, and return the half when coming in. They stamp the little black book ( alien cert.book ) and passport. No one ever asked for the little (big actually ) red one from police.

[canopus1969]

Skippybangkok

Sorry to trouble you, but was it just the one ‘re-entry permit’ form you needed to complete (single or multiple re-entries ) or were there other forms ?

Cheers in advance

[skippybangkok]

Well,

It was done at room 202. There is a Endorsement ( 1,900 baht), and also a re-Entry ( multiple in my case) which was the standard 3,800 baht, but i am sure the officers can give u the right ones. Cant recall what forms were used, but u need both stamps.

There is one benefit (how ever small ), dont have to hunt for the freaking visa number - did not write on last entry, and they did not say anything, so I assume there is no need to write it.

Cheers.

[grtaylor]

I have tried to remain "jai yen yen" about the whole PR process, and so far have succeeded. I applied in December '06 and had my interview in February. All went very well - paperwork all correct (including a letter of recommendation from a Khunying friend), good interview and 100% on the Thai test. Since then I have just been waiting, and, knowing how long it can take, been happy to do so. I'm on my second 6 month extension stamp until December.

But, since July they have been asking for more and more documentation (NOT on their original list). More and more stuff about contract, salaries and tax. My employer is absolutely scrupulous about following salary/taxation rules to the letter, so there is nothing wrong here. The last one was another certified paper, showing my salary, benefits and tax paid for the last two years. This is information they already have on the tax receipts!

What are they doing? Is it just me or everyone? Has this happened to anyone in previous years? Are they just tightening up? Do they just like to make the point that they will do this in their own way at their own time?

Slightly frustrated.

G

[skippybangkok]

My secretary had to submit some more documents post interview, and even 10 -11 months later still had to submit a few things. They are just ticking the boxes is my guess.

Hang in there, it will be another year before u pick it up