Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[mortenaa]

10 hours ago, brianinbangkok said:

If flying late at night I have sometimes been sent to the foreigners queue because the Thai desks had been closed.

This included my Thai wife.

 

I have often thought using the auto gates could become an issue as I have no stamps proving I followed the rules leaving and entering Thailand but it would seem this is not the case.

 

However when I had the immigration officer put the autogate sticker in my passport she told me I had to come update my file with her if I got a new re-entry permit.

The sticker however is valid for a few years.

So does anybody know if I need to go and update my autogate details every year as I get a new multi entry every year?

 

One other question as I need to get a new passport next year. Does it take longer at CW if I bring a new passport and do they need the housebook this time?

I recently got a new re-entry. Left and came back using Auto-gate, without any issues. All entries are in the system, so no need for stamps anymore ????

[rimmae2]

11 hours ago, brianinbangkok said:

If flying late at night I have sometimes been sent to the foreigners queue because the Thai desks had been closed.

This included my Thai wife.

 

I have often thought using the auto gates could become an issue as I have no stamps proving I followed the rules leaving and entering Thailand but it would seem this is not the case.

 

However when I had the immigration officer put the autogate sticker in my passport she told me I had to come update my file with her if I got a new re-entry permit.

The sticker however is valid for a few years.

So does anybody know if I need to go and update my autogate details every year as I get a new multi entry every year?

 

One other question as I need to get a new passport next year. Does it take longer at CW if I bring a new passport and do they need the housebook this time?

Since I registered for autochannel, I have had three new visas and never had to 'update a file' with IO at airport. Once I obtained a new sticker and that took 5 mins max.

[brianinbangkok]

Thanks for the information,

 

[mortenaa]

On 6/17/2019 at 2:18 PM, rimmae2 said:

Since I registered for autochannel, I have had three new visas and never had to 'update a file' with IO at airport. Once I obtained a new sticker and that took 5 mins max.

 

Did you obtain a new sticker "inside" or "outside". Can you obtain a new sticker before the old one expires? 

[rimmae2]

9 hours ago, mortenaa said:

 

Did you obtain a new sticker "inside" or "outside". Can you obtain a new sticker before the old one expires? 

I obtained it "inside" but before going through the autogates. I asked the IO and access was renewed as per post below from another thread and then used the autochannel.

 

I don't know the answer to your question, as my business trip was extended and could not try. Time taken was very quick as below post. Sticker is for more than two and a half years.

 

"Renewed my e-channel access in 2 mins earlier this week at Suvarnhabumi. Form and copy of ID of Thai person not required; photo and fingerprint also not required. This was done in same passport and Blue book so no complications."

[Smokegreynblues]

So i got my third continuous extension of stay a few days ago, however the HR department forgot to renew my work-permit and let it expire, so now  i have applied for a new work permit , the difference in the dates between the old WP and the New WP is about 1 week, does that pose issues with the PR process?

[Arkady]

16 minutes ago, Smokegreynblues said:

So i got my third continuous extension of stay a few days ago, however the HR department forgot to renew my work-permit and let it expire, so now  i have applied for a new work permit , the difference in the dates between the old WP and the New WP is about 1 week, does that pose issues with the PR process?

Technically yes you could be rejected for a break in WP.  However, I think it is unlikely anyone would notice/object where the break appears in the same WP (with same employer). I believe problems are more like to occur where an applicant has changed jobs and is presenting two separate WPs which is clearly an invitation to a scrutinise for a break. All you can do is apply and see what happens. I would put my money on you being OK.

[Smokegreynblues]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

Technically yes you could be rejected for a break in WP.  However, I think it is unlikely anyone would notice/object where the break appears in the same WP (with same employer). I believe problems are more like to occur where an applicant has changed jobs and is presenting two separate WPs which is clearly an invitation to a scrutinise for a break. All you can do is apply and see what happens. I would put my money on you being OK.

The older work permit was taken by the labor and was not returned to me, just the receipt. So its just one work permit.

[scorecard]

26 minutes ago, Smokegreynblues said:

The older work permit was taken by the labor and was not returned to me, just the receipt. So its just one work permit.

Do you have a copy of every page of the WP which the Labour dep't., people have now kept?

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, Smokegreynblues said:

The older work permit was taken by the labor and was not returned to me, just the receipt. So its just one work permit.

In the 2008 Working of Aliens Act they introduced a new provision that said the foreign worker is permitted to retain the expired/cancelled work permit for his records. I successfully did that, as have others, after the usual small argument with the counter clerk involving pointing out the law that they were supposed to be following.  Since the junta scrapped the 2008 law and replaced it with a Section 44 decree which I have not read in detail, I can't tell you if that provision was carried over but I would guess that it was.

 

If you did not retain a copy of your cancelled WP and the old one covers part of the three year qualification period required for application for either PR or citizenship, you have to go to the Labour Ministry and get a certified copy of the work permit. 

 

I note that the list of documents required for PR includes a letter from the Labour Ministry to certify your WP.  I didn't have to get this but did have for citizenship.  In that case they simply certified that my current WP was genuine and didn't refer to any previous WPs.  I assume that is the same for PR now.  I thought the amount of documentation required for PR was massive in the late 90s but it has grown exponentially since then.  Nearly all documents only had to be self-certified by the applicant in those days and there was no need for a home country police clearance or photographs of you and your wife on the marital bed waiting for the starter's signal to get down to action.  I can only assume that it will continue to get more difficult.

[Smokegreynblues]

Just a heads up, the window period of new applications for PR for the year 2019 is open from July 1- 31 December 2019 this year. Previously it supposed it used to be open for just a month. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Smokegreynblues

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, Smokegreynblues said:

Just a heads up, the window period of new applications for PR for the year 2019 is open from July 1- 31 December 2019 this year. Previously it supposed it used to be open for just a month. 

Thanks

Real nice of them to hide it on the Bangkok immigration website (division 1) instead of the main immigration website.

See: http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=residence

How early applications are accepted depends upon when the cabinet approves the quotas. I have seen be done so late in December that they extended it into January. Last year it was September until the end of the year.

There is also a new set of required documents that are dated June 2019 that was posted on the main website last month.

See: https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1560937657542.pdf

[Arkady]

57 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Thanks

Real nice of them to hide it on the Bangkok immigration website (division 1) instead of the main immigration website.

See: http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=residence

How early applications are accepted depends upon when the cabinet approves the quotas. I have seen be done so late in December that they extended it into January. Last year it was September until the end of the year.

There is also a new set of required documents that are dated June 2019 that was posted on the main website last month.

See: https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1560937657542.pdf

Immigration Division 1 is CW, where the PR dept is located.  To them it is totally intuitive to post it on their own website and they probably don't have access to the main one.  The fact that potential applicants woulnd't know to look there is irrelevant to the bureaucratic mindset, which those who apply will get to understand better as they pursue their goal.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, Smokegreynblues said:

Just a heads up, the window period of new applications for PR for the year 2019 is open from July 1- 31 December 2019 this year. Previously it supposed it used to be open for just a month. 

 

Not bad that they have offered a 5 month window this year.  When I applied I think there was only two or three weeks of the year left and  one year in the recent past they have opened on Christmas Eve (but did extend the deadline into January).

 

Actually in the dim and distant past it was quite normal to open the window in May or June.  It was only as governments became more mean minded towards foreigners that they started reducing the window to a month or less.  The problem is that the 1979 Immigration Act requires the announcement of a cabinet resolution to fix the quotas by nationality for the year.  This is, in fact, utterly redundant because the Act sets maximum quotas at a 100 per nationality and 50 for stateless persons and the government only has the flexibility to set the quotas at less than 100, which it has never done.  Therefore another piece of useless legislation, the purpose of which is forgotten in the mists of time but is left unamended and adhered to rigidly in spite of the inconvenience to cabinet ministers, immigration officers and applicants.

 

In contrast, there is no quota for citizenship and Special Branch is open to accept applications every working day of the year. Those who are married to Thais would be well advised to consider skipping PR and applying directly for citizenship which is much easier and less expensive.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

3 hours ago, Arkady said:

In contrast, there is no quota for citizenship and Special Branch is open to accept applications every working day of the year.

True. However we'll agree that in practice having a monthly interview at the Ministry of Interior for a max capacity of approx 30 citizenship applicants each maintains a queuing backlog and eventually acts as a virtual quota of 360 granted per year. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by GabbaGabbaHey

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

True. However we'll agree that in practice having a monthly interview at the Ministry of Interior for a max capacity of approx 30 citizenship applicants each maintains a queuing backlog and eventually acts as a virtual quota of 360 granted per year. 

That may well be more than the number who apply annually.  There are also similar constraints in the PR process, as they have to be interviewed by a panel at Immigration, as well considered by the Immigration Commission which does it in batches.

[Angry Dragon]

Apologies if this has been raised in the previous 233 pages, but I just wanted to get TV's insights on the various annual requirements after receiving PR.

 

1.  For alien book (red book), this needs to be certified/endorsed by your local police department (where you are registered on the tabien ban) once a year.  Police departments will often provide five years of renewals at once (so you only need to make a trip to the police once every five years in this case).

 

2.  For the residency book (blue book), this needs to be endorsed once a year as well?  This is where it gets confusing to me.  The residency book is where they stamp your re-entry permit, which is required before leaving Thailand (just like with a normal visa).  Is the endorsement in the residency book something different from a re-entry permit?  If I routinely come and go multiple times a year and use a re-entry permit am I covered, or do I need a separate endorsement as well every year?

 

thanks in advance!

 

 

[Michael Hare]

8 minutes ago, Angry Dragon said:

Apologies if this has been raised in the previous 233 pages, but I just wanted to get TV's insights on the various annual requirements after receiving PR.

 

1.  For alien book (red book), this needs to be certified/endorsed by your local police department (where you are registered on the tabien ban) once a year.  Police departments will often provide five years of renewals at once (so you only need to make a trip to the police once every five years in this case).

 

2.  For the residency book (blue book), this needs to be endorsed once a year as well?  This is where it gets confusing to me.  The residency book is where they stamp your re-entry permit, which is required before leaving Thailand (just like with a normal visa).  Is the endorsement in the residency book something different from a re-entry permit?  If I routinely come and go multiple times a year and use a re-entry permit am I covered, or do I need a separate endorsement as well every year?

 

thanks in advance!

 

 

Not quite right.

 

1 Red brown book Once every five years at your local police station HQ. Cost is 800 baht. 

 

2 Blue book You do not need to get it endorsed at all. Never. Only need to get the re-entry permit (multiple or single) put in if you intend leaving the country. I have gone five years without ever leaving Thailand. As you routinely go out every year, then when you apply for a reentry permit you hand over your passport and blue book at the same time. The cost for multiple reentry permit is 3,900 baht in your passport and 1,800 baht in your blue book. Total of 5,700 baht. 

 

Have you got your pink ID card yet? Very useful inside Thailand. 

[Arkady]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

Not quite right.

 

1 Red brown book Once every five years at your local police station HQ. Cost is 800 baht. 

 

2 Blue book You do not need to get it endorsed at all. Never. Only need to get the re-entry permit (multiple or single) put in if you intend leaving the country. I have gone five years without ever leaving Thailand. As you routinely go out every year, then when you apply for a reentry permit you hand over your passport and blue book at the same time. The cost for multiple reentry permit is 3,900 baht in your passport and 1,800 baht in your blue book. Total of 5,700 baht. 

 

Have you got your pink ID card yet? Very useful inside Thailand. 

I believe the cost is more than the cost of extensions based on marriage or retirement but far less agro and you don't need to bother, if you don't want to travel abroad.

 

Last few times I did the renewals for residence book and passport before I got the blue ID card, the forms were available online and could be typed online and printed out and signed before going to CW which saved some hassle there.

[Angry Dragon]

1 hour ago, Michael Hare said:

Not quite right.

 

1 Red brown book Once every five years at your local police station HQ. Cost is 800 baht. 

 

2 Blue book You do not need to get it endorsed at all. Never. Only need to get the re-entry permit (multiple or single) put in if you intend leaving the country. I have gone five years without ever leaving Thailand. As you routinely go out every year, then when you apply for a reentry permit you hand over your passport and blue book at the same time. The cost for multiple reentry permit is 3,900 baht in your passport and 1,800 baht in your blue book. Total of 5,700 baht. 

 

Have you got your pink ID card yet? Very useful inside Thailand. 

wonderful!  thanks for the clarification on the blue book!

[scorecard]

3 minutes ago, Angry Dragon said:

wonderful!  thanks for the clarification on the blue book!

Further, if/when the blue book is full you visit immigration (in Bkk at CW) and get a replacement issued. The replacement is white colour.

 

There is no re-application for PR, nor any re-approval process and no interview or similar involved, just a mechanical replacement of the full book.  

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Further, if/when the blue book is full you visit immigration (in Bkk at CW) and get a replacement issued. The replacement is white colour.

 

There is no re-application for PR, nor any re-approval process and no interview or similar involved, just a mechanical replacement of the full book.  

Why the replacement book has to be white and say "duplicate" on the front is one of the great mysteries of PR that I am sure the officers at CW would be unable to explain other than with their own personal theories, if asked.  Anyway, it sure gets dirty faster than the blue one, if you travel a lot with it.

[scorecard]

13 minutes ago, Arkady said:

Why the replacement book has to be white and say "duplicate" on the front is one of the great mysteries of PR that I am sure the officers at CW would be unable to explain other than with their own personal theories, if asked.  Anyway, it sure gets dirty faster than the blue one, if you travel a lot with it.

 

All true plus the paper / manufacturing quality of the book is not that good. Mine is enclosed in a thick plastic done by my DIL who is great at crafts, to give the book some protection from wear and tear. 

[brd]

it is clear enough THai government is making an inventory of who is a farang living where in Thailand and for what purposes.

Nothing more nothing less.

Once The Thai Authorities will have a clear overview rules will adapt to become appropriate.

All transition periods are painful short times and for better long times.

Real issues are land issues leases to go from 30 to at least 50 years.

Permanency of residences to be extended without headaches.

Each one must respect the laws no short cut no deviations and easier to stick to its.

Edited August 24, 2019 by brd

[thedemon]

6 minutes ago, brd said:

it is clear enough THai government is making an inventory of who is a farang living where in Thailand and for what purposes.

Nothing more nothing less.

Once The Thai Authorities will have a clear overview rules will adapt to become appropriate.

All transition periods are painful short times and for better long times.

Real issues are land issues leases to go from 30 to at least 50 years.

Permanency of residences to be extended without <deleted>.

Each one must respect the laws no short cut no deviations and easier to stick to its.

 

As far as I know, the requirement for reporting by PR's being discussed here has been in place since not too long after the 2nd world war. Nothing to do with the current government.

[brd]

31 minutes ago, thedemon said:

 

As far as I know, the requirement for reporting by PR's being discussed here has been in place since not too long after the 2nd world war. Nothing to do with the current government.

only a tightening the screw rejuvenated process implemented under the present Government...all transition periods can be painful stressful but all for better.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, thedemon said:

 

As far as I know, the requirement for reporting by PR's being discussed here has been in place since not too long after the 2nd world war. Nothing to do with the current government.

What reporting?

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, brd said:

it is clear enough THai government is making an inventory of who is a farang living where in Thailand and for what purposes.

Nothing more nothing less.

Once The Thai Authorities will have a clear overview rules will adapt to become appropriate.

All transition periods are painful short times and for better long times.

Real issues are land issues leases to go from 30 to at least 50 years.

Permanency of residences to be extended without headaches.

Each one must respect the laws no short cut no deviations and easier to stick to its.

Permanency of residences to be extended without headaches. ? ?

Edited August 24, 2019 by scorecard

[jayboy]

3 hours ago, brd said:

it is clear enough THai government is making an inventory of who is a farang living where in Thailand and for what purposes.

Nothing more nothing less.

Once The Thai Authorities will have a clear overview rules will adapt to become appropriate.

All transition periods are painful short times and for better long times.

Real issues are land issues leases to go from 30 to at least 50 years.

Permanency of residences to be extended without headaches.

Each one must respect the laws no short cut no deviations and easier to stick to its.

Dream on.

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, scorecard said:

Permanency of residences to be extended without headaches. ? ?

@brd   Please respond.