Anger mounts as Gaza toll rises

[seedy]

Just heard on the news today, that the UN warned Israel of the location where over 3000 orphans were staying. This was hit by tank fire.

 

Now a tank uses a gun which you aim, and if they knew the building was full of orphans, why pull the trigger ?

 

Oh yes - Israel lieutenant said they were taking mortar fire.

 

Mortar fire against a tank - about as effective against armor as a rock attack.

[kblaze]

Leave it to Hamas to turn opportunity into violence. 

 

 

Youtube videos, images from the IDF Spokesperson's twitter, now Israeli Cartoons?

 

The Propaganda is strong with this one

[Ulysses G.]

Well, there’s only one way to find out....give peace a chance.

Yeah, like that would work. 

 

 

"The truth is that if Israel were to put down its arms there would be no more Israel. If the Arabs were to put down their arms there would be no more war."

[rlopes]

Maybe Israel wants to get into a real war so they can wipe out some countries from the map?

[dexterm]

Hang on mo, what dose it mean Palestinians  state within 1967 borders?... shouldn't that read willing to accept an Israeli state within 1967 borders?

isn't the whole thing about pushing Israel back in to 1967 borders? that statement is not what

you think,

 

The whole world via UN Resolution 242 has called for Israel to give up land illegally occupied and colonized beyond 1967 borders, not just Hamas and PA.

 

All Arab countries (and Iran even) and PA and Hamas have agreed to recognize Israel in secure and permanent 1967 borders if Israel will do the same for Palestinians. It's as simple as that. 

[kblaze]

 

Yes, the majority of people on this world want Israel to stop their human rights violations! US brush of your US-Jew influence and stop this civilian killing by them! NOW or discredit yourself. Israel is at this point probably the worst state on this world. Look at the widely available picture of the expansion of Jewish territory and reduction of Palestinian territory and you will see what is in their mind: ethnic cleansing and nothing else. Israel is a fascist and racist state! As bad as Nazi-Deutschland!

This is the kind of toxic anti-semitic sentiment that the war in Gaza (yes it is a war now) has brought out from under the rocks. Always there. Just waiting to erupt. It is worse in France. Not too surprising considering their history. No, Israel is not equivalent to Nazi Germany. 

 

The loss of civilian life is awful, but it is no Holocaust. It is, though, an opportunity for anti-Semites, latent or otherwise, to express their bigotry. Their implied statement is that the Jews had it coming — see how they act now! Their bigotry overpowers their logic and they deliriously lose all sense of proportion — 6 million vs. 1,000 or so in Gaza — and they conflate the killer with the killed. It is repugnant.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/richard-cohen-with-israel-the-world-is-blaming-the-victims/2014/07/28/104bcc4c-1680-11e4-9349-84d4a85be981_story.html?hpid=z3

 

 

Another opinion article by Israeli sympathizer Richard Cohen? 

 

*waits to be called anti-semite*

 

[Class C]

I wonder what Thailand would do if Cambodia started building settlements on their land ?

[Ulysses G.]

All Arab countries (and Iran even) and PA and Hamas have agreed to recognize Israel in secure and permanent 1967 borders if Israel will do the same for Palestinians. It's as simple as that.

Actually it is a blatant lie. I am too lazy to look up the other entities, but here is just one of them:

"Hamas will not recognize Israel ... this is a red line that cannot be crossed".
- Mousa Mohammed Abu Marzook, deputy chairman of Hamas's political bureau in 2014

[dexterm]

 

Well, there’s only one way to find out....give peace a chance.

Yeah, like that would work. 

 

 

"The truth is that if Israel were to put down its arms there would be no more Israel. If the Arabs were to put down their arms there would be no more war."

 

 

You are using the False Dilemma  aka black or white fallacy.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

 

There is grey too..truce, negotiations, gradual detente, peace agreement, years of living in prosperity without war.

 

No-one is asking Israel to disarm. 

[Scott]

Posts have been deleted for a variety of reasons, including oversized graphics, irrelevant maps, inflammatory posts, off-topic posts, personal arguments that are unrelated to the topic and replies to these posts.  

 

Please stay on topic.  

[tyler214]

Israel is showing it's true colors.
Imagine the outcry if an Israeli school was blown up! This is now pathetic!
UG, JT and co, bring on your excuses! ('Terror tunnels', 'Rockets' 'wipe off map' 'only democracy' 'anti-termite' etc etc etc...)

 

I think your pretty pathetic believing what you see and here from this so called one sided bias media that only portrays the Palestinians suffering and neglects the Israeli people. But its not Pathetic for Hamas to use their citizens at their deposial at will as sheilds' Oh I forgot they care about the own people, thats why they hide their missiles at schools, shoot them from hospitals, mosques and nearby schools knowing there are civilians all around so they can get slaughtered' Yup that sounds like a government that protects and cares about their people...... Hamas are nothing but ball less, spineless cowards that fight like mice from tunnels. Its no shock that Hamas has nothing to lose and can cares less about their people, but keep believing what you see.

[kblaze]

 

Israel is showing it's true colors.
Imagine the outcry if an Israeli school was blown up! This is now pathetic!
UG, JT and co, bring on your excuses! ('Terror tunnels', 'Rockets' 'wipe off map' 'only democracy' 'anti-termite' etc etc etc...)

 

I think your pretty pathetic believing what you see and here from this so called one sided bias media that only portrays the Palestinians suffering and neglects the Israeli people. But its not Pathetic for Hamas to use their citizens at their deposial at will as sheilds' Oh I forgot they care about the own people, thats why they hide their missiles at schools, shoot them from hospitals, mosques and nearby schools knowing there are civilians all around so they can get slaughtered' Yup that sounds like a government that protects and cares about their people...... Hamas are nothing but ball less, spineless cowards that fight like mice from tunnels. Its no shock that Hamas has nothing to lose and can cares less about their people, but keep believing what you see.

 

 

I'm assuming you are referring to international media and NOT U.S. media?

 

Can you tell me where in his post he says ANYTHING about Hamas?

 

Are you disputing that Israel shot shells at a UN school?

[Ulysses G.]

Can you tell me where in his post he says ANYTHING about Hamas?

Just which conflict is this thread about? Who else is he referring to? 

[ezzra]

 

 

Israel is showing it's true colors.
Imagine the outcry if an Israeli school was blown up! This is now pathetic!
UG, JT and co, bring on your excuses! ('Terror tunnels', 'Rockets' 'wipe off map' 'only democracy' 'anti-termite' etc etc etc...)

 

I think your pretty pathetic believing what you see and here from this so called one sided bias media that only portrays the Palestinians suffering and neglects the Israeli people. But its not Pathetic for Hamas to use their citizens at their deposial at will as sheilds' Oh I forgot they care about the own people, thats why they hide their missiles at schools, shoot them from hospitals, mosques and nearby schools knowing there are civilians all around so they can get slaughtered' Yup that sounds like a government that protects and cares about their people...... Hamas are nothing but ball less, spineless cowards that fight like mice from tunnels. Its no shock that Hamas has nothing to lose and can cares less about their people, but keep believing what you see.

 

 

I'm assuming you are referring to international media and NOT U.S. media?

 

Can you tell me where in his post he says ANYTHING about Hamas?

 

Are you disputing that Israel shot shells at a UN school?

 

 

Rules of engagements, where there are weapons, combatants and suspicions of war activities,

this area becomes a legitimate targets,

[kblaze]

 

 

Rules of engagements, where there are weapons, combatants and suspicions of war activities,

this area becomes a legitimate targets,

 

 

 

"suspicion of war activities"

 

LOL

[Ulysses G.]

Rockets being fired from schools are a lot more than ""suspicion of war activities".

 

 

 

[kblaze]

Rockets being fired from schools are a lot more than ""suspicion of war activities".

 

 

 

 

 

Can you point out the rocket launcher for me? I sure can't see it.

[hawker9000]

Can hardly think of anything more meaningless these days to either side than a US (read, 'Obama') or a UN "condemnation".  Hardly more than a second-level talking point to anyone else either.

[JDGRUEN]

 

 

People seem to forget the reason why Hamas starting firing rockets into Israel 

 

 

What a load of nonsense. Hamas has never stopped firing rockets into Israel.. 

 

 

LoL @ UG using images sourced directly from the IDF Spokeperson's twitter!

 

Why don't you show the number of deaths from these rocket attacks and then tell me if 5000 dead and injured innocent civilians (oh wait i forgot you ascribe to the OBL school of thought that there are no innocents) is a proportional response?

 

Here I'll post it for you;

2007 - 2807 rocket attacks, 2 killed.

2008 - 3716 rocket attacks, 8 killed.

2009 - 858 rocket attacks, 0 killed.

2010 - 365 rocket attacks, 1 killed.

Iron Dome is installed

2011 - 680 rocket attacks, 2 killed.

2012 - 2273 rocket attacks, 6 killed.

2013 - 44 rocket attacks (what?), 0 killed

2014 - 705 rocket attacks, 1 killed

 

 

Guess it means that the Hamas terrorists are bad shots or the rockets are not so good... I can just imagine how Israelis had to duck and cover by the thousands of times to keep from getting killed.  

 

So - if Hamas fires thousands of rockets over the years and doesn't kill anyone then it is okay?   Is that right?

[siampolee]

One thing that puzzles me is why are these ardent posters who  state unequivocally that Israel is the innocent victim and much maligned victim of mass rocket attacks are it seems all over here in Thailand and not out on the front line defending the state they so proudly love and so stoutly defend as opposed to mortal combat via their keyboards

 

Actions or perhaps I should write in this case ''inaction's do indeed speak louder than words, mind you talk like a Palestinians life adults, men and women and children are it seems disposable cheap throw away items to the Zionists.  

 

 

Edited July 31, 2014 by siampolee

[hawker9000]

 

 

 

People seem to forget the reason why Hamas starting firing rockets into Israel 

 

 

What a load of nonsense. Hamas has never stopped firing rockets into Israel.. 

 

 

LoL @ UG using images sourced directly from the IDF Spokeperson's twitter!

 

Why don't you show the number of deaths from these rocket attacks and then tell me if 5000 dead and injured innocent civilians (oh wait i forgot you ascribe to the OBL school of thought that there are no innocents) is a proportional response?

 

Here I'll post it for you;

2007 - 2807 rocket attacks, 2 killed.

2008 - 3716 rocket attacks, 8 killed.

2009 - 858 rocket attacks, 0 killed.

2010 - 365 rocket attacks, 1 killed.

Iron Dome is installed

2011 - 680 rocket attacks, 2 killed.

2012 - 2273 rocket attacks, 6 killed.

2013 - 44 rocket attacks (what?), 0 killed

2014 - 705 rocket attacks, 1 killed

 

 

Guess it means that the Hamas terrorists are bad shots or the rockets are not so good... I can just imagine how Israelis had to duck and cover by the thousands of times to keep from getting killed.  

 

So - if Hamas fires thousands of rockets over the years and doesn't kill anyone then it is okay?   Is that right?

 

 

It simply means that Israelis don't go out of their way to make SURE that civilians are killed when Hamas rockets them, as Hamas ENSURES its civilians definitely ARE KILLED by Israeli strikes which will predictably & obviously target the Hamas launch sites.   ....which are always schools, mosques, hospitals, and densely populated areas.   Israel tries to leaflet/e-mail/phone these targets, and the civilians stick around anyway.   A very effective media-manipulation tactic by Hamas that appeals to mobs the world over. 

 

How anyone can come to any OTHER conclusion than that Hamas (and those civilians willingly supporting them) is/are completely responsible for these civilian deaths is insane.

 

OK, now the other guy is supposed to repeat the "that's just Netanyahu propaganda" talking point (accepted and parroted by terrorist sympathizers and Jew-haters the world over), and that's pretty much how the debate ends...   The rest is just repetition, occasionally accompanied by some lame attempt to win on word-count.

Edited July 31, 2014 by hawker9000

[ggold]

 

 

Hamas have offered an indefinite truce and recognition of Israel in its 1967 borders

You need to work on your reading skills if you are going to link to articles that directly contradict your dishonest talking points. This guy claimed to be willing to accept a Palestinian state that followed the 1967 borders. He did not agree to "recognize Israel" in return or even stop attacking them - other than temporarily.

 

 

"The Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, said on Saturday his government was willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders."

 

Well, if the Palestinian state is within the 1967 borders, it ain't inside Israel's borders is it? Ergo, mutually recognized border. Get it?

 

 

I'm guessing you know that your post is not really giving an accurate  idea of what Hamas mean by accepting a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders So here is a map of Hamas's Palestine state.

 

 

You know Hamas do not accept  the state of Israel. So why the subterfuge?

[Thaiready]

Israel is showing it's true colors.
Imagine the outcry if an Israeli school was blown up! This is now pathetic!
UG, JT and co, bring on your excuses! ('Terror tunnels', 'Rockets' 'wipe off map' 'only democracy' 'anti-termite' etc etc etc...)

Only thing Pathetic is the Terrorist launching attacks from a School in the first place......then hiding behind Women and Children when the attacks are answered.

[ggold]

One thing that puzzles me is why are these ardent posters who  state unequivocally that Israel is the innocent victim and much maligned victim of mass rocket attacks are it seems all over here in Thailand and not out on the front line defending the state they so proudly love and so stoutly defend as opposed to mortal combat via their keyboards

 

Actions or perhaps I should write in this case ''inaction's do indeed speak louder than words, mind you talk like a Palestinians life adults, men and women and children are it seems disposable cheap throw away items to the Zionists.  

 

 

 

well you could always go to Gaza and offer the Palestinians a helping Hand!
 

[JDGRUEN]

 

Well, there’s only one way to find out....give peace a chance.

Yeah, like that would work. 

 

 

"The truth is that if Israel were to put down its arms there would be no more Israel. If the Arabs were to put down their arms there would be no more war."

 

 

Here are a few insights and quotes from HAMAS leaders relative to wanting to annihilate the cockroaches as they so lovingly call the Jews .

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_print=1&x_article=594&x_context=2

 

 Hamas needs no provocation to attack, since it considers Israel’s very existence provocation enough. The preamble to the Hamas charter makes this abundantly clear. It states “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”

 

Yassin also believes that “reconciliation with the Jews is a crime.” (Filastin al-Muslimah (London), March 1995.)

 

 

Shortly after Barak offered a Palestinian state, Abu Shanab was reported to have warned:

We are coming. We have accepted the challenge. We are coming to Tel Aviv. We are coming to every place in Palestine to purify it from the Jews. (New York Times, Oct. 28, 2000.)

[siampolee]

ggold post # 57

 

well you could always go to Gaza and offer the Palestinians a helping Hand!

 

 

Much the same as you could go to Israel and offer a helping hand taking those other ardent Zionist supporters with you.

[Basil B]

For many years I have felt there are two sides to this story and the Israeli's are not that innocent, but while America has a large Jewish population that can swing any election America has always taken the Israeli side and vetoed any form of UN sanctions to force Israeli to negotiate with the Palestinians, instead it seems the Israeli's have an agenda to eradicate the Palestinians, is this not dissimilar to what happened in Warsaw in 1940? to which every decent person condemns to this day. 

[kblaze]

 

Guess it means that the Hamas terrorists are bad shots or the rockets are not so good... I can just imagine how Israelis had to duck and cover by the thousands of times to keep from getting killed.  

 

So - if Hamas fires thousands of rockets over the years and doesn't kill anyone then it is okay?   Is that right?

 

 

 

Nope JD, you are right "the rockets are not so good" and it is great that they hardly kill anyone

[kblaze]

 

Israel is showing it's true colors.
Imagine the outcry if an Israeli school was blown up! This is now pathetic!
UG, JT and co, bring on your excuses! ('Terror tunnels', 'Rockets' 'wipe off map' 'only democracy' 'anti-termite' etc etc etc...)

Only thing Pathetic is the Terrorist launching attacks from a School in the first place......then hiding behind Women and Children when the attacks are answered.

 

 

 

As far as I know, there have only been 3 instances among the 80+ UN schools where the UNRWA workers have found some rockets that someone stashed there. One time the rockets disappeared, the other two the workers got UN weapons removal experts to take care of them.

 

Do you have a link that reports this "launching from the schools" as you say?

[kblaze]

 

It simply means that Israelis don't go out of their way to make SURE that civilians are killed when Hamas rockets them, as Hamas ENSURES its civilians definitely ARE KILLED by Israeli strikes which will predictably & obviously target the Hamas launch sites.   ....which are always schools, mosques, hospitals, and densely populated areas.   Israel tries to leaflet/e-mail/phone these targets, and the civilians stick around anyway.   A very effective media-manipulation tactic by Hamas that appeals to mobs the world over. 

 

How anyone can come to any OTHER conclusion than that Hamas (and those civilians willingly supporting them) is/are completely responsible for these civilian deaths is insane.

 

OK, now the other guy is supposed to repeat the "that's just Netanyahu propaganda" talking point (accepted and parroted by terrorist sympathizers and Jew-haters the world over), and that's pretty much how the debate ends...   The rest is just repetition, occasionally accompanied by some lame attempt to win on word-count.

 

 

 

"The civilians stick around anyway"

 

Where are they supposed to go? The UN came out yesterday and said in no uncertain terms, THERE ARE NO SAFE PLACES IN GAZA.