Gaza school strike 'criminal' - UN

[kblaze]

If we're talking about the poor Palestinians being killed by the Israelis right? than what about the poor

Palestinians being killed and expelled fro Syria on en mass? some will jump now up and say these

are different Palestinians, are they?

The value of a dead Palestinian rises exponentially if their death can be blamed on Israel, otherwise they are ten a penny, for example the Jordanians killed 10,000 when they expelled the PLO from Jordan.

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The numbers are certainly high, but that figure doesn't seem likely as far as I've read on wiki;

"Estimates of the number of the people killed in the ten days of Black September range from three thousand to more than five thousand, although exact numbers are unknown. The Palestinian death toll in 11 days of fighting was estimated by Jordan at 3,400, while Palestinian sources often cite the number 5,000, mainly civilians, killed. Arafat at some point claimed that 10,000 had been killed."

[Choctastic]

Who is it? Please provide some evidence then. The article that I responded to does not say anything about when it was taken or that it is from the current conflict - only that it is Hamas.

If you had taken the time to check the comments, to see if anyone had debunked it, it would have been clear. You could also have done a search for 'fake Hamas human shields'. It isn't difficult. Instead you simply grabbed it and supported the propaganda. No-one knows exactly the origins of the picture but a simple glance would show you the children couldn't stay there long, they already look like they are choking. Sitting them down outside the house would have been sufficient. Or even tying them to the railings.

The fact that the picture was taken long before the current round of slaughter 'self-defence', is sufficient to know it is NOT as you suggested.

Some basic fact-checking would improve your credibility.

[joepublic]

IDF USES HUMAN SHIELDS

How often have we heard the Zionist say Hamas uses human shields? The reality is, as ever, they try to pin the tactics they use on Hamas.

It is Israel policy to use Palestinians as human shields.

Two IDF soldiers charged with using 9-year-old 'human shield' in Gaza war

Israeli defence minister Shaul Mofaz appeals the ban on the use of human shields

Ulysses, jingthing and ggold can peddle the lies about Hamas and human shields, but everyone knows its the Zionists that actually use children as shields

[Oziex1]

What do we really know about what is going on here, who are the victims and who are the aggressors.

The First Casualty of War is the Truth.

[Ulysses G.]

No-one knows exactly the origins of the picture

In other words, you have no idea if it is Hamas, but you insisted that it was not. All your spin does not hide the basic fact that you are commenting on something that you know almost nothing about, while pretending that you do.

[Steely Dan]

IDF USES HUMAN SHIELDS

How often have we heard the Zionist say Hamas uses human shields? The reality is, as ever, they try to pin the tactics they use on Hamas.

It is Israel policy to use Palestinians as human shields.

Two IDF soldiers charged with using 9-year-old 'human shield' in Gaza war

Israeli defence minister Shaul Mofaz appeals the ban on the use of human shields

Ulysses, jingthing and ggold can peddle the lies about Hamas and human shields, but everyone knows its the Zionists that actually use children as shields

Your link demonstrates your lie, written in block capitals for good measure. The fact soldiers are prosecuted for such behavior demonstrates their actions are NOT IDF POLICY. I wonder when was the last time Hamas prosecuted anyone for using civilians as human shields.

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[joepublic]

Washington (CNN) -- Divided on other issues, U.S. lawmakers united in support of Israel on Friday with the Senate approving another $225 million for the Iron Dome missile defense system.

The House followed Friday night by voting 395-8 in favor of the measure.

Good for them. America is united against Islamic terrorism.

Sorry, what you mean is the AIPAC has terrorized the American administration into paying for systematic elimination of innocents in Gaza.

[Neurath]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

When you use women and children as human shields, civilians die. No more criminal than Friendly Fire. Stuff happens. Get over it. Israel has the right to defend itself against Hamas, a terrorist organization. OK, you can attack me now.

To say that they're using women and children as sheilds and that this is an explanation for this attack on the school is a bit silly. You might as well say the Isreali's are doing so by staying put in Tel Aviv. Where after all are can the Gaza Palestinians to go for shelter?

[Ulysses G.]

I wonder when was the last time Hamas prosecuted anyone for using civilians as human shields.

Never. They get promoted to a leader.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted. Please keep the discussion civil.

[Farfetched]

If we're talking about the poor Palestinians being killed by the Israelis right? than what about the poor

Palestinians being killed and expelled fro Syria on en mass? some will jump now up and say these

are different Palestinians, are they?

The value of a dead Palestinian rises exponentially if their death can be blamed on Israel, otherwise they are ten a penny, for example the Jordanians killed 10,000 when they expelled the PLO from Jordan.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Back on topic, how many woman and children need to be murdered in Gaza before you say enough is enough?

Any of you Israeli apologists, answer that question.

Not one Israeli apologist on here seems prepared to answer this simple question. Strange, because you seem happy to back up this genocide but reluctant to acknowledge how many innocents its ok to slaughter.

You use the term "murdered" which would imply they selected these people specifically and then killed them. That is absurd. Yes, they are casualties of war. I wish they weren't, but I cannot change that. When Hamas learns that they cannot kill all the Israelis and Jews then maybe innocent people will quit dying. Do a little reading and you will understand that Hamas will not cease firing rockets into Israeli territory until all Jews and Israelis are dead. I firmly believe that the people of Gaza would willingly live in peace next to Israel if there were no Hamas government putting their lives in danger on a daily basis.

[kleelof]

When you use women and children as human shields,

YOu do realize, this is an unsubstantiated lie told by Israel, right?

[Farfetched]

When you use women and children as human shields,

YOu do realize, this is an unsubstantiated lie told by Israel, right?

No, I do not realize this. Nor do I believe it is unsubstantiated. But do you recognize Israels right to protect themselves from daily bombardment by rocket attacks? If someone were throwing rocks at you and your children as you played in your own yard, would you just go inside and ignore them? I doubt it.

[dexterm]

IDF USES HUMAN SHIELDS

How often have we heard the Zionist say Hamas uses human shields? The reality is, as ever, they try to pin the tactics they use on Hamas.

It is Israel policy to use Palestinians as human shields.

Two IDF soldiers charged with using 9-year-old 'human shield' in Gaza war

Israeli defence minister Shaul Mofaz appeals the ban on the use of human shields

Ulysses, jingthing and ggold can peddle the lies about Hamas and human shields, but everyone knows its the Zionists that actually use children as shields

Your link demonstrates your lie, written in block capitals for good measure. The fact soldiers are prosecuted for such behavior demonstrates their actions are NOT IDF POLICY. I wonder when was the last time Hamas prosecuted anyone for using civilians as human shields.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Some very disturbing accounts of how the IDF use children as human shields here

http://www.dci-palestine.org/sites/default/files/bearingthebruntagain.pdf

[Choctastic]

No-one knows exactly the origins of the picture

In other words, you have no idea if it is Hamas, but you insisted that it was not. All your spin does not hide the basic fact that you are commenting on something that you know almost nothing about, while pretending that you do.

I sympathize with your embarrassment.

[kblaze]

Back on topic, how many woman and children need to be murdered in Gaza before you say enough is enough?

Any of you Israeli apologists, answer that question.

Not one Israeli apologist on here seems prepared to answer this simple question. Strange, because you seem happy to back up this genocide but reluctant to acknowledge how many innocents its ok to slaughter.

You use the term "murdered" which would imply they selected these people specifically and then killed them. That is absurd. Yes, they are casualties of war. I wish they weren't, but I cannot change that. When Hamas learns that they cannot kill all the Israelis and Jews then maybe innocent people will quit dying. Do a little reading and you will understand that Hamas will not cease firing rockets into Israeli territory until all Jews and Israelis are dead. I firmly believe that the people of Gaza would willingly live in peace next to Israel if there were no Hamas government putting their lives in danger on a daily basis.

If you are referring to the "Hamas Charter", it doesn't appear to be a driver of current Hamas policy. There seems to have been a big change in 2006, when they were elected in Gaza.

I've been trying to find a RECENT statement from Hamas, calling for the destruction of Jews, but can't find one. Can you?

From Guardian;

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/12/israel

From the Telegraph;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/1507754/Hamas-drops-call-for-the-end-of-Israel-as-poll-nears.html

From Wiki;

"Dr. Ahmed Yousef, an adviser to Ismail Haniyeh (the senior political leader of Hamas) claimed that Hamas has changed its views with time since the charter was issued in 1988.^[17] In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."^[6]

In 2006, Hamas proposed government programme, which stated that "the question of recognizing Israel is not the jurisdiction of one faction, nor the government, but a decision for the Palestinian people."^[18][19] However many remain sceptical of Hamas's new stance, and view it as a ploy to hide its true agenda, "but it is equally true that the “new” discourse of diluted religious content—to say nothing of the movement’s increasing pragmatism and flexibility in the political domain—reflects genuine and cumulative changes within Hamas."^[7]

Of course if Hamas had any brains they would throw it out completely

[dexterm]

If we're talking about the poor Palestinians being killed by the Israelis right? than what about the poor

Palestinians being killed and expelled fro Syria on en mass? some will jump now up and say these

are different Palestinians, are they?

The value of a dead Palestinian rises exponentially if their death can be blamed on Israel, otherwise they are ten a penny, for example the Jordanians killed 10,000 when they expelled the PLO from Jordan.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Back on topic, how many woman and children need to be murdered in Gaza before you say enough is enough?

Any of you Israeli apologists, answer that question.

Not one Israeli apologist on here seems prepared to answer this simple question. Strange, because you seem happy to back up this genocide but reluctant to acknowledge how many innocents its ok to slaughter.

I firmly believe that the people of Gaza would willingly live in peace next to Israel if there were no Hamas government putting their lives in danger on a daily basis.

Well next time Hamas offers the olive branch and the PA offers to recognize Israel,

http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

...perhaps Israel should reach out and take it rather than impose new preconditions for peace talks, build more colonies in the West Bank, and invade Gaza on the flimsiest of pretexts...doesn't engender much trust does it.

[Farfetched]

IDF USES HUMAN SHIELDS

How often have we heard the Zionist say Hamas uses human shields? The reality is, as ever, they try to pin the tactics they use on Hamas.

It is Israel policy to use Palestinians as human shields.

Two IDF soldiers charged with using 9-year-old 'human shield' in Gaza war

Israeli defence minister Shaul Mofaz appeals the ban on the use of human shields

Ulysses, jingthing and ggold can peddle the lies about Hamas and human shields, but everyone knows its the Zionists that actually use children as shields

Your link demonstrates your lie, written in block capitals for good measure. The fact soldiers are prosecuted for such behavior demonstrates their actions are NOT IDF POLICY. I wonder when was the last time Hamas prosecuted anyone for using civilians as human shields.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Some very disturbing accounts of how the IDF use children as human shields here

http://www.dci-palestine.org/sites/default/files/bearingthebruntagain.pdf

Are you seriously wanting me to believe a report written by a group in Gaza and backed by the Hamas government? LOL OK, right,. Are you nuts? Would you believe a similar report about Hamas if written by the Israelis? Didn't think so. Nice try anyway.

[joepublic]

ISRAEL USES CHILDREN AS HUMAN SHIELDS

The Israeli military continues to use Palestinians, including children, as human shields during ground

military operations despite the October 2005 ruling of the Israeli High Court of Justice that banned this

practice.117 At least seven children were used as human shields by Israeli troops during Operation Cast

Lead. Most of them were subjected to abuse and ill-treatment while detained and were psychologically

affected by the experience. After repeated calls from NGOs the Israeli authorities began to investigate

the incidents in June 2009 to start investigating the incidents. However, even well-documented incidents

rarely lead to indictments and prosecutions.

Al Mezan Centre for Human Rights and Defence for Children International - Palestine Section 2009

[joepublic]

Some very disturbing accounts of how the IDF use children as human shields here

http://www.dci-palestine.org/sites/default/files/bearingthebruntagain.pdf

Are you seriously wanting me to believe a report written by a group in Gaza and backed by the Hamas government? LOL OK, right,. Are you nuts? Would you believe a similar report about Hamas if written by the Israelis? Didn't think so. Nice try anyway.

We don't need a report from Hamas - we can see the footage of children being murdered, the schools being bombed, hospitals being demolished every day.

[khunken]

Watched an interesting video (source NY Times) yesterday of a group of NY Jews - including at least one Rabbi - protesting against the Israeli slaughter of civilians in Gaza. Some were carrying anti-Zionist placards.

Which begs the question - are Jews & Rabbis who are against Zionism - anti-Semite?

Also are Jews and Rabbis who are not accepting Israeli propaganda - Hamas supporters?

Based on the racist Israeli-supporting fanatics the answer to both would be yes.

Edited August 4, 2014 by khunken

[kblaze]

Watched an interesting video (source NY Times) yesterday of a group of NY Jews - including at least one Rabbi - protesting against the Israeli slaughter of civilians in Gaza. Some were carrying anti-Zionist placards.

Which begs the question - are Jews & Rabbis who are against Zionism - anti-Semite?

Also are Jews and Rabbis who are not accepting Israeli propaganda - Hamas supporters?

Based on the racist Israeli-supporting fanatics the answer to both would be yes.

Well according to one of the most famous Israelis of all time Abba Eban, there are only two kinds of criticism of Zionism;

"You are either an anti-Semite or a self-hating Jew".

[Jingthing]

"Zionism" and the modern nation state of Israel are not the same thing as current Israeli policies. Most of the Jews in the world who are critical of current Israeli policy still support the existence of the state of Israel. Like when I opposed Bush in Iraq I was still in favor of the USA continuing to exist. Trying to explain the complexities of "Zionism" to people who are obviously deeply hostile to the existence of the state of Israel (and yes also quite often Judeophobic) is a black hole. Look at wiki or something. There are indeed a very small percentage of Jews in the world who are opposed to the existence of the state of Israel. I think Israel can cope with that level of dissent from Jews to its very existence.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jingthing

[Farfetched]

The truth about Hamas as told by the the son of a founder of Hamas.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-defector-slams-death-worship/

[Jingthing]

Watched an interesting video (source NY Times) yesterday of a group of NY Jews - including at least one Rabbi - protesting against the Israeli slaughter of civilians in Gaza. Some were carrying anti-Zionist placards.

Which begs the question - are Jews & Rabbis who are against Zionism - anti-Semite?

Also are Jews and Rabbis who are not accepting Israeli propaganda - Hamas supporters?

Based on the racist Israeli-supporting fanatics the answer to both would be yes.

Well according to one of the most famous Israelis of all time Abba Eban, there are only two kinds of criticism of Zionism;

"You are either an anti-Semite or a self-hating Jew".

Self hating Jews do really exist. I have known many.

[Ulysses G.]

Well according to one of the most famous Israelis of all time Abba Eban, there are only two kinds of criticism of Zionism;

"You are either an anti-Semite or a self-hating Jew".

You are a fount of knowledge about everything negative ever said by one Jew about another and the inside scoop on every single Jew that works for the media worldwide. Do you get this stuff from those helpful websites that keep folks up to date on the international Jewish conspiracy?

[tpazzi]

It is time to put an international force in between Israel and Gaza.

They should be the ones tasked with enforcing boundaries, finding/destroying tunnels and missile stores , investigate violations, ensuring legitimate supplies are not withheld from the Gaza residents.

[jago25]

There is always a choice.

If someone kills someone you love, you can always choose not to be reactive.

Life is that harsh. That is the test.

I know there is a possibility someone may try to effect me this way. I do what I can to be prepared.

By doing this you appear to allow your enemy some ground but this is the price. It can take a long time and a lot of loss before change- that passion has to overpower the virulent nature of violence. This is the determination required to win a war, not lazily hitting straight back into the cycle of violence. If you win through violence then you never really won at all, such as the allies in WW2 are discovering right now - the energy just bounces around and comes back. That's what we see here with Russia and Israel. Time to let go.

[coma]

Another UN school has just been deliberately attacked in Gaza. Killing more innocent civilians. This after IDF were sent the coordinates to the school so it would not be attacked.

Anywhere else in the world and the western hypocritical organisations such as the EU and NATO would be enforcing a no fly zone. Absolutely disgraceful.

Edited August 4, 2014 by coma

[Jingthing]

"Zionism" and the modern nation state of Israel are not the same thing as current Israeli policies. Most of the Jews in the world who are critical of current Israeli policy still support the existence of the state of Israel. Like when I opposed Bush in Iraq I was still in favor of the USA continuing to exist. Trying to explain the complexities of "Zionism" to people who are obviously deeply hostile to the existence of the state of Israel (and yes also quite often Judeophobic) is a black hole. Look at wiki or something. There are indeed a very small percentage of Jews in the world who are opposed to the existence of the state of Israel. I think Israel can cope with that level of dissent from Jews to its very existence.

That's all very well although the current settlement building policy is very much a part of Zionism.

Jews in the video I watched didn't express any hostility towards the state of Israeli - only the genocidal policies of the current supremacist leadership as well as Zionism.

Yet again you can't seem to accept that criticism of Zionism (or the Israeli leadership) does not mean being 'deeply hostile' to Israel's existence.

There you go again. Your understanding of what is Zionism is extremely biased and absurdly narrow. You seem to think that only extreme right wing Zionism (such as of active right wing settlers) is Zionism. That is simply not true. That's why I think it's a waste of time even talking to people who try to force such a narrow definition of Zionism. Might as well drop the word in discussions. If you don't like settlements (I don't either) then talk about that. Don't pretend you know what Zionism is ... because it just muddies what could be at least a semi-coherent discussion. If not, at least take the energy to QUALIFY your attacks on Zionism with explaining you are only talking about far right wing Zionists.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jingthing