new Kenwood unit - sounds bad

[BlackJack]

Just had a named auto and air shop in Pattaya install a DNX5350BT Kenwood CD DVD GPS etc unit in my Yaris

It has more things to tweak than the space shuttle.

After 1 week I gave up as I couldnt get the sound right. There was no top end frequencies even though i had the graphics band up on full.

Conclusion was that in changing the head unit the speakers werent matched as they were the original Yaris ones. They sounded great and had no problems but I changed the unit as I wanted my music on a USB and this Yaris didnt have one.

So all up it was 29000 baht.

In searching for speakers that matched the unit I found several other similarly named boy shops with the same unit for 22000 baht. When I rang the original seller they said that these cheaper units didnt have a guarantee. So this is why they charged more. I thought the guarantee would come from Kenwood?

Is this true about the cheaper units?

Also I still have an issue with the sound. Even with the graphics, I cant get it right. Anyone have a similar problem and can anyone suggest a good speaker match.

[bkkjames]

go back to the shop and ask them to help you out.

[BlackJack]

good grief

i must be stupid

why didnt i think of that

[Spoonman]

22k is the price for the head unit, do you expect to fit it for free ?

Ive no idea why your speakers now sound shit though. Go back and ask them to tune the head unit if that does not help a cheap set of tweeters added to the front stage may help the problem.

[Pomthai]

Yep, they might have the speakers wired backwards as well. Cones will be pulling instead of pushing etc. Wiring up speakers isn't rocket science but when the person doing it doesn't give a damn there is lots of room for error. It will still produce sound. But will sound shit. I bet you have some wires crossed.

[Spoonman]

Yep, they might have the speakers wired backwards as well. Cones will be pulling instead of pushing etc. Wiring up speakers isn't rocket science but when the person doing it doesn't give a damn there is lots of room for error. It will still produce sound. But will sound shit. I bet you have some wires crossed.

If all speakers are wired out of phase it will not matter. If one is wired out of phase it will affect the bottom end rather than the top.... stranger things have happened though.

[rhythmworx]

Are and were the speakers ran through an amplifier?

It could be wired wrong or the crossovers are set incorrectly.

[bkkjames]

good grief

i must be stupid

why didnt i think of that

well did you?

[BlackJack]

Thank guys for the input

after looking at the wiring diagram there is provision for 2 way and 3 way electronic crossovers via the head unit - each phase and crossover point and slope can be adjusted for 10 or so different sized speakers - that are selected via the touch screen. It is a very sophisticated unit.

I suspect that the old head unit just powered the speakers through there own crossovers - matched by Toyota. There are 2 door speakers and tweeters on the dash in the front and 2 full range door speakers in the back - all can be controlled separately by the head unit as above - speaker size, crossover points, slope, volume etc.

When the noddy tech wired it up he (may have) just connected the already crossover d speakers into the wiring loom on the head unit. Basically if it made a noise he had done his job.

When I called the boy shop, I was told that the difference in price was that other shops advertised 22K and no guarantee. I have since checked online and the guarantee comes from Kenwood and not the shop and the price is 22K. But fitted. Then I was told the manager was sick and I couldnt talk with him about the issue. Sounds like I was done over.

My hunch is that they just sell and fit the units - they have no understanding of any other issues regarding sound fields, sound stage, dynamic range, matching speaker efficiency to the head unit etc. So this kind of talk with them will possibly be lost on the moon.

I will take it to another shop and pay the difference.

[Spoonman]

Boy air and sound builds high end audio vehicles and competes in sound off's. I reckon they know all about sound fields, sound stage, dynamic range etc. something has obviously gone wrong in this instance though.

Saying that if I was in the market for an instal I would use Driver Sound.

http://www.driversoundinter.com/

Edited August 6, 2014 by Spoonman

[KittenKong]

When I called the boy shop, I was told that the difference in price was that other shops advertised 22K and no guarantee. I have since checked online and the guarantee comes from Kenwood and not the shop and the price is 22K. But fitted. Then I was told the manager was sick and I couldnt talk with him about the issue. Sounds like I was done over.

I got a price from them once. In the end I bought an identical item elsewhere, fitted by specialists, with full warranty and about 8% cheaper all-in. The other company did the job the next day also which the first shop could not do.

[BlackJack]

Boy air and sound builds high end audio vehicles and competes in sound off's. I reckon they know all about sound fields, sound stage, dynamic range etc. something has obviously gone wrong in this instance though.

Saying that if I was in the market for an instal I would use Driver Sound.

http://www.driversoundinter.com/

Unfortunately there are a number of boys

So maybe some misunderstanding with companies

This is in Pattaya

I just spent another hour with them and in all honesty it was the blind leading the blind

I used all my communications skills and went through each step thoroughly - no real need for English as it was by example and several sources from USB Disc DVD were used. The boss even plugged in his magic USB stick and there was picture but no sound.

On the graphics I had the last 3 high freq faders at full and hardly any treble was coming out. After 20 mins of touch screen pointing and sliding I could see that these guys were way out of their field of expertise. This concerned me as.

The door panel on the Yaris was removed to see the speaker and hard wired crossover - unfortunately major surgery was needed as so I declined and said I will take the car to professionals and pay them to fix the problems.

The owner of the shop then came out with more boxes of speakers that could fix the problem. Brands I had never heard of before. I told him that the Jeep had Infinity speakers and if he had those I would buy them. Unfortunately not.

Again I said no and that I didnt really care about paying the high price but I expected that I would have a beautiful listening experience that was fatigue free.

All this because I wanted a USB in the Yaris.

BTW I have done 80K in this car and never had an issue with the sound.

I maintain that this is a great place until you have to do something then mostly it goes pear shaped not if but when.

Now my search is on for a fix.

[Spoonman]

Iam talking about Boy air and Sound out on Sukhumvit road, about 800m up if turning off the 36 towards pattaya.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Spoonman

[culicine]

Hope you get it sorted? But why spend 29K just to get a usb port? I was going to change my head unit in my honda, it was only going to cost about 5-6K (2 din). I ended up not doing it as my CD player 'came back to life' the day after I got the quote lol I would have thought that not changing the speakers they sound would not be much different from original. Not worse that's for sure!

[Overandout]

It is a lot of money just for USB music.

I wanted a USB port to play music in my old Granvia, problem is that the head unit doubles up as the DVD player for the screens, so a good replacement head unit was going to cost me. So I stopped in Tesco Lotus on the way to Hua Hin and bought one of those radio transmitting MP3 players. 300 Baht and it works a treat.

I did leave it on the dashboard one day in the sun though, and all the plastic melted and the LCD screen went black... after cooling down a bit the screen came back to life and it still works!

[BlackJack]

Iam talking about Boy air and Sound out on Sukhumvit road, about 800m up if turning off the 36 towards pattaya.

yes thats the one

but these guys can put a pick up sound system together

no problem as its all passive

but we are talking about the Kenwood DNX series and the difference is like playing with a remote control plane and then piloting a Dreamliner. The Kenwood is worth 29K or less in other shops as it also has Garmin DIVx and everything from 2 to 3 way speakers is actively controlled. It is incredibly complex and versatile.

The techs at Boys had no clue on how to control the unit. This was obvious by the fact that when tuning the graphics they were hitting the loudness button that increases the bass. When it was the top end that was missing and a big hole around the 2K range.

If you get a chance have a look at the manual here http://www.kenwood.com/sg/car/visual_navigation/dnx5350bt/support.html?model=DNX5350BT

I am not caning Boy - its just that they sell these complex units and fit them and if a noise comes out the other end then its a job well done.

I am now hunting down possibly some Infinity speakers so if anyone knows where i can get a REAL set in Pattaya please let me know.

PS I did use an FM transmitter before and was not happy with it.

[apiwan]

The. New yaris has a USB port. But only front speakers.

I fitted rear speakers 100 watt. And there low.

Bloke said you need an amp.

Sod it it's OK for now.

No name speakers. 3500 baht. <deleted>.

Find a pro better in the long run

[BlackJack]

The. New yaris has a USB port. But only front speakers.

I fitted rear speakers 100 watt. And there low.

Bloke said you need an amp.

Sod it it's OK for now.

No name speakers. 3500 baht. <deleted>.

Find a pro better in the long run

The old Yaris had one too

but it was the Sports model

I didnt get this one as it had cloth seats

I got the unlimited but it was limited as it had no USB -

Amps are not that expensive but the Kenwood has 50 watts RMS x 4

so plenty for a car

Speakers - unfortunately I worked in many audio places including recording studios, fitting out theaters, rock shows, and so my hearing is trained to listen for problems - I suppose the older I get the less it will matter.

[murray122]

They are cowboys. I also spent around 30k there. After 3 days I'd lost sound from drivers door. Took it back where they said they fixed a loose connection. On the way home, it failed again. Decided to do it myself. What I found after removing the door panel....looked like a blind 5 year old with no hands had done the install! Never again.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[rhythmworx]

The. New yaris has a USB port. But only front speakers.

I fitted rear speakers 100 watt. And there low.

Bloke said you need an amp.

Sod it it's OK for now.

No name speakers. 3500 baht. <deleted>.

Find a pro better in the long run

The old Yaris had one too

but it was the Sports model

I didnt get this one as it had cloth seats

I got the unlimited but it was limited as it had no USB -

Amps are not that expensive but the Kenwood has 50 watts RMS x 4

so plenty for a car

Speakers - unfortunately I worked in many audio places including recording studios, fitting out theaters, rock shows, and so my hearing is trained to listen for problems - I suppose the older I get the less it will matter.

No Kenwood car stereo can output 50 watts RMS from a 14.4 volt supply without an external amplifier, its against the laws of physics, the most you will get is around 22 watts.

The specs are rated as peak which in the real world means nothing of any value, it all marketing bullshii..

[BlackJack]

into 2 ohms?

[Spoonman]

The. New yaris has a USB port. But only front speakers.

I fitted rear speakers 100 watt. And there low.

Bloke said you need an amp.

Sod it it's OK for now.

No name speakers. 3500 baht. <deleted>.

Find a pro better in the long run

The old Yaris had one too

but it was the Sports model

I didnt get this one as it had cloth seats

I got the unlimited but it was limited as it had no USB -

Amps are not that expensive but the Kenwood has 50 watts RMS x 4

so plenty for a car

Speakers - unfortunately I worked in many audio places including recording studios, fitting out theaters, rock shows, and so my hearing is trained to listen for problems - I suppose the older I get the less it will matter.

No Kenwood car stereo can output 50 watts RMS from a 14.4 volt supply without an external amplifier, its against the laws of physics, the most you will get is around 22 watts.

The specs are rated as peak which in the real world means nothing of any value, it all marketing bullshii..

Ummmm he was talking about an amp putting out 50w rms not the head unit.

[rhythmworx]

Wouldn't surprise me if they didn't bother to disconnect the battery on installation and have blown your amp (if your model has one) or your tweeters or both.

Had a look through the manual and quick start guide and found a NOTE: on page 92 of manual connecting 3-way speakers in the 2 way mode can damage speakers.

I am guessing maybe you have a 3 way speaker system and it is connected in 2 way mode, they didn't know how to convert the yaris OEM wiring for the amp and solder RCA connectors on there so it can connect to the head unit, so it was probably a matter of out of sight out of mind.

It's hard to tell without looking at it but that's where I would put my money.

Scratch that, check page 30 on the QSG it tells you how to change from 2 to 3 way...at your own risk though.

Edited August 8, 2014 by rhythmworx

[Spoonman]

Wouldn't surprise me if they didn't bother to disconnect the battery on installation and have blown your amp (if your model has one) or your tweeters or both.

Had a look through the manual and quick start guide and found a NOTE: on page 92 of manual connecting 3-way speakers in the 2 way mode can damage speakers.

It doesn't make much sense though as there is no option in the head unit to select 2 or 3 way. It is judged on how the speakers are physically wired to the accessory loom which plugs into the same slot on the head unit.

I am guessing maybe you have a 3 way speaker system and it is connected in 2 way mode, they didn't know how to convert the yaris OEM wiring for the amp and solder RCA connectors on there so it can connect to the head unit, so it was probably a matter of out of sight out of mind.

It's hard to tell without looking at it but that's where I would put my money.

His Yaris does not have 3 way split system. it is not top of the range.

He did not install an amp either.

It was a head unit swap.

What are you talking about ?

Edited August 8, 2014 by Spoonman

[rhythmworx]

Wouldn't surprise me if they didn't bother to disconnect the battery on installation and have blown your amp (if your model has one) or your tweeters or both.

Had a look through the manual and quick start guide and found a NOTE: on page 92 of manual connecting 3-way speakers in the 2 way mode can damage speakers.

It doesn't make much sense though as there is no option in the head unit to select 2 or 3 way. It is judged on how the speakers are physically wired to the accessory loom which plugs into the same slot on the head unit.

I am guessing maybe you have a 3 way speaker system and it is connected in 2 way mode, they didn't know how to convert the yaris OEM wiring for the amp and solder RCA connectors on there so it can connect to the head unit, so it was probably a matter of out of sight out of mind.

It's hard to tell without looking at it but that's where I would put my money.

His Yaris does not have 3 way split system. it is not top of the range.

He did not install an amp either.

It was a head unit swap.

What are you talking about ?

Yes I understand that thanks for your worthy input on this thread.

[BlackJack]

I have been looking at crutchfield audio online and check the speaker size and whats available

also feedback from others that have changed out the OEM's and what difference it has made to the sound.

I will go to another shop and see if they have the speakers recommended and fit them - also check the wiring changes from boys backyard job

thanks for all the feedback

[BlackJack]

Boy competes on what pickup can make the loudest noise. Noise is not good quality sound. They compete on db levels. The speakers I want aren't available in Thailand as they produce.music and not noise. So I will get some hand carried in. Some of the brands shown to me were names I had never seen before and when I heard them I thought about the first time I built a hi if system. It made a noise and I was happy. After studying audio engineering and working as a recording engineer and front of house mixer I can appreciate noise verses fidelity.

[WarpSpeed]

Thank guys for the input

after looking at the wiring diagram there is provision for 2 way and 3 way electronic crossovers via the head unit - each phase and crossover point and slope can be adjusted for 10 or so different sized speakers - that are selected via the touch screen. It is a very sophisticated unit.

I suspect that the old head unit just powered the speakers through there own crossovers - matched by Toyota. There are 2 door speakers and tweeters on the dash in the front and 2 full range door speakers in the back - all can be controlled separately by the head unit as above - speaker size, crossover points, slope, volume etc.

When the noddy tech wired it up he (may have) just connected the already crossover d speakers into the wiring loom on the head unit. Basically if it made a noise he had done his job.

When I called the boy shop, I was told that the difference in price was that other shops advertised 22K and no guarantee. I have since checked online and the guarantee comes from Kenwood and not the shop and the price is 22K. But fitted. Then I was told the manager was sick and I couldnt talk with him about the issue. Sounds like I was done over.

My hunch is that they just sell and fit the units - they have no understanding of any other issues regarding sound fields, sound stage, dynamic range, matching speaker efficiency to the head unit etc. So this kind of talk with them will possibly be lost on the moon.

I will take it to another shop and pay the difference.

Bing! Now you've caught on to the preponderance of Thai business practices, when faced with real customer questions and concerns, shuck and jive and at all costs avoid the real truth.. Sorry to hear you got the raw deal, but when buying used cars in Thailand I never ONCE found a properly installed stereo, tape wrapped around the connections, speakers wired backwards and sound crap, my favorite is having to disconnect the face to get it to shut off when turning off the car because no one was either smart enough or inspired enough to find a power source that turns on with the accessory part of the ignition or they just have no clue and wire to the same power source that supplies the stereos memory not understanding they serve different purposes. I don't see many instruction manuals in Thai so that is definitely an issue being one TECHNICIAN passes on all of his "knowledge" to those who don't know any better and won't ask then there is the "just get it done" attitude which is prevalent as well.

[WarpSpeed]

Boy competes on what pickup can make the loudest noise. Noise is not good quality sound. They compete on db levels. The speakers I want aren't available in Thailand as they produce.music and not noise. So I will get some hand carried in. Some of the brands shown to me were names I had never seen before and when I heard them I thought about the first time I built a hi if system. It made a noise and I was happy. After studying audio engineering and working as a recording engineer and front of house mixer I can appreciate noise verses fidelity.

So not surprising then that the bass worked fine, that was my original thought too as soon as you mentioned it. All base, no real sound...

[rhythmworx]

Boy competes on what pickup can make the loudest noise. Noise is not good quality sound. They compete on db levels. The speakers I want aren't available in Thailand as they produce.music and not noise. So I will get some hand carried in. Some of the brands shown to me were names I had never seen before and when I heard them I thought about the first time I built a hi if system. It made a noise and I was happy. After studying audio engineering and working as a recording engineer and front of house mixer I can appreciate noise verses fidelity.

If the above is true why could you not install or solve the problem yourself?

Post #7 and #23 mentioned this while post #24 chipped in to say that it was not relevant.

Edited October 16, 2014 by rhythmworx