Thai Immigration guidelines for inspection of foreigners on visa exempt entries.

[dickyknee]

I posted this in another topic, but no response. people do get profiled coming through immigration and I suspect the stories of those being singled out have got "I'm not a tourist" tattooed on their forehead.

"at this point there seems to be more people passing through the airports regularly and still getting 30 tourist visa exempt stamps than those being pulled aside and being told to get a proper visa.

i'm curious to know how the ones being pulled up are presenting themselves as. ie. what are you wearing (singlet, collared shirt, flip-flops, covered shoes etc)? cleanly shaven? tattoos? are you filling out your departure card? where are you listing on your arrival card as staying (hotel or house/condo), and purpose of visit (holiday, visiting friends family)?"

[Sena Dave]

Surely if you are being refused entry into a country then they must give you the reasons in writing. Might be an idea to carry both of the documents attached to this thread and show them their own guidelines and then fill out the refusal document.

I think , as mentioned, profile may have something to do with it and mentioning wife ,kids and house may be the road to a knock-back . In light of this I'm going out today to get myself a Surfboard and have braids put in my hair , that'll fox em

[Sena Dave]

Well I suppose "A Number of entry" is part of the information checking, but it doesn't mention in what context

1. Information checking

1.1 Purpose of entering the Kingdom

The alien must enter the Kingdom with the sole purpose of tourism, and not for work.

1.2 Record of entry and stay within the Kingdom

1.2.1 A number of entry into the Kingdom

1.2.2 The alien must not enter the Kingdom by exploiting 30­day visa exemptions

undertaking method “in­out” or called by foreigners as “Visa run”. Aliens use the

advantage of Tourist Visa Exemption by leaving Thailand and returning immediately for

the purpose of extending their stay, which is considered from the tourism point of view

to be longer than necessary and not in line with the purpose permitted while entering

country

[wilcopops]

So what is their definition of ABUSE of the visa-less option?

What is back to back?

Is someone stays out for a week is that OK?

If they do those repeatedly for a couple of years?

Are now NOT including back to back tourist visas? Their seems no mention of this.

[wilcopops]

So what is their definition of ABUSE of the visa-less option?

What is back to back?

Is someone stays out for a week is that OK?

If they do those repeatedly for a couple of years?

Are now NOT including back to back tourist visas? Their seems no mention of this.

[SooKee]

If they do actually comply to their own guideline then it should only be people who are spending the majority of their time in Thailand using exemptions or endless tourist Visa's who will be denied entry

If I read the new guidelines correctly then not all immi officers are following their own guidelines.

I work in Malaysia, my family has remained in Hat Yai. I manage to get home for a weekend, maybe once a month.

I was denied entry this past weekend (on my wedding anniversary, no less) because I had more than 4 entries into the country this year.

It didn't matter that I am not doing "visa runs", it did not matter that my normal stay is no longer than 3 days...they tossed me back, without asking any questions, strictly on the 4-visit rule.

This is my thinking and this is why I have decided to go for the Retirement Extension despite the multitude of confident posters espousing the "You don't need to do that; you'll be fine; they are targeting back-to-back only blah blah blah" viewpoints. I have loads of short stay visa exempts and last time when exiting my passport was looked at very closely. I get the impression that it's only when I said yes when he asked "your home Malaysia", and showed him the visa, that I didn't get a warning or worse.

In many cases those assuming it IS just O/I may be right. If the rules were implemented as designed, they may be right (that is IF we know the whole picture). The problem is it's not the "I'm right" brigade that are implementing this. It's individual I/Os and individual districts, who in some cases seem to be making it up as they go along.

If it was ONLY targeting O/I then you would think this section would not be needed: 1.2.1 A number of entry into the Kingdom. As it stands, there appears to be as much room for an I/O to focus on 1.2.1 as much as the O/I element, and in the absence of guidance (max 3, 4 or 5; or maxi 60, 90 days or whatever), decide themselves. Not a good situation.

So is it back to back (O/I), is it that plus max X amount of visa exempt stamps, or either of those plus max x amount of visas (other)?

Hopefully it'll all become clearer after a few months but at the moment in some places it seems to be a complete shambles.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Pick of Penang

[kriswillems]

May I ask for the original Thai text? I often see the translations posted here and the Thai text are different.

Edited August 12, 2014 by kriswillems

[ubonjoe]

May I ask for the original Thai text? I often see the translations posted here and the Thai text are different.

It is one of the 4 notices posted here on July 25th. http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php

[paddyjenkins]

I had hoped for clarification after that Thaivisa interview with immigration officials, last week. But so far we've had zero follow up on that. Where is the promised report of the findings of that interview, surely there had been plenty of time to write up a report by now?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[ubonjoe]

I had hoped for clarification after that Thaivisa interview with immigration officials, last week. But so far we've had zero follow up on that. Where is the promised report of the findings of that interview, surely there had been plenty of time to write up a report by now?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

We don't have all the answers yet. Waiting for immigration. It will probably be next week.

[paddyjenkins]

I had hoped for clarification after that Thaivisa interview with immigration officials, last week. But so far we've had zero follow up on that. Where is the promised report of the findings of that interview, surely there had been plenty of time to write up a report by now?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

We don't have all the answers yet. Waiting for immigration. It will probably be next week.

Why not report on what is known so far then and just append later? Some of what is known, especially their response to the definition of back to back and to whom that is likely to apply, will be useful right now, it's already the 12th.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[RHerberth]

I not believe anyone who writes here on TV. "My friend or a friend of friend got denied entry because of more then 3 visa exempt entries" i want to see the evidence. ( the document with reason filled out by an immigration officer). How many people come into the country witj more then 5 exempt entries and nothing happen........

[picklez01]

These new laws are making Thailand far less desirable. I no longer feel welcome and don't want to stay.

I'm leaving in two weeks, I'm sure millions will be too. What I find so damn annoying is how many grey area there seem to be. Nothing is clear cut, it's just up to the immigration officer on the day..

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited August 12, 2014 by picklez01

[ubonjoe]

I had hoped for clarification after that Thaivisa interview with immigration officials, last week. But so far we've had zero follow up on that. Where is the promised report of the findings of that interview, surely there had been plenty of time to write up a report by now?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

We don't have all the answers yet. Waiting for immigration. It will probably be next week.

Why not report on what is known so far then and just append later? Some of what is known, especially their response to the definition of back to back and to whom that is likely to apply, will be useful right now, it's already the 12th.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You have no concern unless you are a in/out visa runner for exempt entries. The guidelines to me are pretty clear.

There is no mention of back to back anywhere. What do you mean by back to back.

If tourist visas you do not have a problem.

[ColdSingha]

These new laws are making Thailand far less desirable. I no longer feel welcome and don't want to stay.

I'm leaving in two weeks, I'm sure millions will be too. What I find so damn annoying is how many grey area there seem to be. Nothing is clear cut, it's just up to the immigration officer on the day..

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

i understand what you are saying but the problem with defining the rules is one also defines the loopholes

i'd imagine they'd like to keep a modicum of control for the IO to review case by case

[Sena Dave]

 

I had hoped for clarification after that Thaivisa interview with immigration officials, last week. But so far we've had zero follow up on that. Where is the promised report of the findings of that interview, surely there had been plenty of time to write up a report by now?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

We don't have all the answers yet. Waiting for immigration. It will probably be next week.

Why not report on what is known so far then and just append later? Some of what is known, especially their response to the definition of back to back and to whom that is likely to apply, will be useful right now, it's already the 12th.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You have no concern unless you are a in/out visa runner for exempt entries. The guidelines to me are pretty clear.

There is no mention of back to back anywhere. What do you mean by back to back.

If tourist visas you do not have a problem.

 

I would imagine people are concerned by the 2 reports (On this thread I think)of people being denied entry due to "Too many entries into Thailand" in one case 4 in another 3. I know this is only 2 reports from probably many people who have entered Thailand with no hindrance . But still concerning never the less. thanks for all of your advice by the way

[Pattaya46]

I'm leaving in two weeks, I'm sure millions will be too.

Millions... Sure....

The big majority of people living here have the correct visa and are absolutely not impacted.

What I find so damn annoying is how many grey area there seem to be.

You live here? You have a non-Imm visa? Then nothing is grey, it's just good

Edited August 12, 2014 by Pattaya46

[chrisinth]

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I not believe anyone who writes here on TV. "My friend or a friend of friend got denied entry because of more then 3 visa exempt entries" i want to see the evidence. ( the document with reason filled out by an immigration officer). How many people come into the country witj more then 5 exempt entries and nothing happen........

What I would 'believe' is the official reports/forms/statements released by the mods on here.

And without disbelieving, I would take into consideration what the various posters have written. Don't forget, we have some posters (or friends of) who are knowingly fringing the laws by being potentially classed as back-to-back, and others who are genuine tourists caught up in it by visiting adjoining countries on a strictly tourist basis.

These are peoples experiences. Its all about perception..........................

[paddyjenkins]

I had hoped for clarification after that Thaivisa interview with immigration officials, last week. But so far we've had zero follow up on that. Where is the promised report of the findings of that interview, surely there had been plenty of time to write up a report by now?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

We don't have all the answers yet. Waiting for immigration. It will probably be next week.

Why not report on what is known so far then and just append later? Some of what is known, especially their response to the definition of back to back and to whom that is likely to apply, will be useful right now, it's already the 12th.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You have no concern unless you are a in/out visa runner for exempt entries. The guidelines to me are pretty clear.

There is no mention of back to back anywhere. What do you mean by back to back.

If tourist visas you do not have a problem.

By back to back I obviously mean "in out" and exactly what that means. If back to back means the same day or just a few days apart, that is one thing. But if it is interpreted as meaning whatever the immigration officer says it means, then that could be a different matter. Obviously that is why people such as oil rig workers or just people who visit several times a year would be concerned, just in case they are caught in between some grey area and an immigration officer having a bad day.

As for obtaining tourist visas, if a person only visits for a few weeks at a time, this should not be necessary. And even if a tourist visa was obtained, the immigration officer could still decide to deny entry based on too many past visas or/and too many visa exemptions. So clarification would help, and if you have feedback from the immigration officer you interviewed I don't see the point of not passing that feedback on.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[stevenl]

We don't have all the answers yet. Waiting for immigration. It will probably be next week.

Why not report on what is known so far then and just append later? Some of what is known, especially their response to the definition of back to back and to whom that is likely to apply, will be useful right now, it's already the 12th.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You have no concern unless you are a in/out visa runner for exempt entries. The guidelines to me are pretty clear.

There is no mention of back to back anywhere. What do you mean by back to back.

If tourist visas you do not have a problem.

By back to back I obviously mean "in out" and exactly what that means. If back to back means the same day or just a few days apart, that is one thing. But if it is interpreted as meaning whatever the immigration officer says it means, then that could be a different matter. Obviously that is why people such as oil rig workers or just people who visit several times a year would be concerned, just in case they are caught in between some grey area and an immigration officer having a bad day.

As for obtaining tourist visas, if a person only visits for a few weeks at a time, this should not be necessary. And even if a tourist visa was obtained, the immigration officer could still decide to deny entry based on too many past visas or/and too many visa exemptions. So clarification would help, and if you have feedback from the immigration officer you interviewed I don't see the point of not passing that feedback on.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

In-out is never a problem, out-in though can be.

Oil rig workers and maybe some others are only worried because of what some people write, without knowing the exact law interpretation and without understanding the law. They have no reason to be worried.

[picklez01]

I'm leaving in two weeks, I'm sure millions will be too.

Millions... Sure....

The big majority of people living here have the correct visa and are absolutely not impacted.

What I find so damn annoying is how many grey area there seem to be.

You live here? You have a non-Imm visa? Then nothing is grey, it's just good

Unless you have a job other than teaching English it's not worth working here for the average 30k salary an English teacher makes.

Better average pay in every other country in Asia.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited August 12, 2014 by picklez01

[ubonjoe]

[

You have no concern unless you are a in/out visa runner for exempt entries. The guidelines to me are pretty clear.

There is no mention of back to back anywhere. What do you mean by back to back.

If tourist visas you do not have a problem.

By back to back I obviously mean "in out" and exactly what that means. If back to back means the same day or just a few days apart, that is one thing. But if it is interpreted as meaning whatever the immigration officer says it means, then that could be a different matter. Obviously that is why people such as oil rig workers or just people who visit several times a year would be concerned, just in case they are caught in between some grey area and an immigration officer having a bad day.

As for obtaining tourist visas, if a person only visits for a few weeks at a time, this should not be necessary. And even if a tourist visa was obtained, the immigration officer could still decide to deny entry based on too many past visas or/and too many visa exemptions. So clarification would help, and if you have feedback from the immigration officer you interviewed I don't see the point of not passing that feedback on.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

The back to back term is often used for getting tourist visas. You mentioned nothing about 28/28 workers before.

The word immediately is used in the guidelines, That is certainly not being away from the country for 30 days.

The only recent reports of people having problems has been at the southern borders and the airports there. It seems that they are making up their own rules or have not been advised by their superiors of the guidelines.

I cannot see anybody doing a rotation and flying into Bangkok having a problem.

[SooKee]

There's also the issue to bear in mind that while it's just one or two on this thread, how many thousands of people use Sadao and Padang Besar each week and how many more are getting hit on the 'too many waivers' interpretation. Might be few, might be hundreds? Far from all of them I suspect will be members of TV (or even waste their time on forums at all) so the numbers represented here may be disproportionately small.

For me I've no problem with LOS cleaning up the country (though perhaps I don't feel so smug about it as the "Get a visa" brigade) but with just the few reports on here I can't help feeling there is some collateral damage occurring, hitting non-intended targets. Given the reports of kick backs with 3/4 waivers, it will actually be safer for me to go for a Retirement Extension (at least for the next 12-15 months), wrongly IMO, as I SHOULD be OK on the waivers, IF the rules get applied correctly. But I'm reluctant to become a 'suck it and see' casualty of rule misinterpretation or application. So in some cases the rules may well bring about visa/extension applications that are not really needed.

[kriswillems]

May I ask for the original Thai text? I often see the translations posted here and the Thai text are different.

It is one of the 4 notices posted here on July 25th. http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php

No, that are different notices.

But I found it on the thai website : http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/base.php?page=readmore&id=1919&section=notice

Looks like the translation is pretty good in this case.

Edited August 12, 2014 by kriswillems

[LivinLOS]

We don't have all the answers yet. Waiting for immigration. It will probably be next week.

Why not report on what is known so far then and just append later? Some of what is known, especially their response to the definition of back to back and to whom that is likely to apply, will be useful right now, it's already the 12th.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You have no concern unless you are a in/out visa runner for exempt entries. The guidelines to me are pretty clear.

There is no mention of back to back anywhere. What do you mean by back to back.

If tourist visas you do not have a problem.

By back to back I obviously mean "in out" and exactly what that means. If back to back means the same day or just a few days apart, that is one thing. But if it is interpreted as meaning whatever the immigration officer says it means, then that could be a different matter. Obviously that is why people such as oil rig workers or just people who visit several times a year would be concerned, just in case they are caught in between some grey area and an immigration officer having a bad day.

As for obtaining tourist visas, if a person only visits for a few weeks at a time, this should not be necessary. And even if a tourist visa was obtained, the immigration officer could still decide to deny entry based on too many past visas or/and too many visa exemptions. So clarification would help, and if you have feedback from the immigration officer you interviewed I don't see the point of not passing that feedback on.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

In-out is never a problem, out-in though can be.

Oil rig workers and maybe some others are only worried because of what some people write, without knowing the exact law interpretation and without understanding the law. They have no reason to be worried.

Yet one I know in hua hin just got told, last time, next time get a visa.. By immigration at swampy.

So unless your there to tell the immigration offer the correct meaning and understanding, I think he has grounds for concern.

[stevenl]

Yet one I know in hua hin just got told, last time, next time get a visa.. By immigration at swampy.

So unless your there to tell the immigration offer the correct meaning and understanding, I think he has grounds for concern.

Every day many, many people enter the country doing exactly that. Sure, sometimes a mistake is made (warning issued) but you really are fear mongering.

[NamKangMan]

I am a 60 day Tourist Visa runner.

Call me cynical, but, in the next month or so, as people like me start coming off our 60 day tourist visas and/or 30 day extensions to those visas, there will be thousands, yes, thousands of people, all over Thailand, heading to neighbouring Thai Embassies, instead of just the closest land boarder or International Airport.

I can't believe this crack down is all about getting these people's $40US for a 60 day tourist visa, and a possible 1900 baht for their 1 month extension.

I, like so many others, spend 1 night in a hotel, pick up the passport the next day, and come straight back to Thailand, although, I sometimes hang around for a few days. This practice is blatantly "back to back."

This crack down acheives nothing but the Thai Government raising some extra revenue, at the expense of many visa run companies going out of business, if 60 day tourist visas are not part of, or become part of, the crack down.

As a high percentage of foreigners that were visa running for 30 day stamps, whether they were by land or air, move to the 60 day tourist visa, surely, in the near future, in the context of this visa crack down, and what it was deigned to do, the focus must change to the abuse of the 60 day tourist visas.

I fully expect it to do so, even if it's a short term media hyped up crack down. I'm surprised many others do not think this will happen.

Edited August 12, 2014 by NamKangMan

[dickyknee]

Yet one I know in hua hin just got told, last time, next time get a visa.. By immigration at swampy.

So unless your there to tell the immigration offer the correct meaning and understanding, I think he has grounds for concern.

I still struggling to understand this.

i know of a few also, they are pulled up and told "Get a Visa"

why would immigration pull them aside and say "get a visa" if they are tourists, even routinely long term ones... unless they obviously aren't, the finer details as to possibly why continually get spared.

except the one pinpointed previously today in this thread, in which the finer detail was extremely concise:

"A Colleague who is married with a family and house car and all the fruit.

Has not been let in to the country. On a 30 tourist visa."

3 reasons that would indicate he's not a tourist, 3 "other" reasons he's a non-immigrant visitor.

what needs to happen here, if someone reports that immigration have either advised "Get a visa" or denied entry, some detail of their personal circumstance needs to be included, not just "he's O&G 28/28, must be the number of entries".

I'm watching this thread closely, it concerns me, but i'm not going to pull the trigger on 500 gorillas (i'd rather buy a f800gs) if people are getting advised or refused by the immigration officials simply because they have "i'm on the wrong visa" tattooed on their forehead.

[BKKox]

I just got back from a weekend in BKK on my 5th visa exempt entry since Songkran holidays this year and no questions asked. I always have return airline tickets, hotel reservations and cash on hand, but have not been asked to show them in any of those 5 visits. FYI I live and work in Singapore, but enjoy a weekend once a month in BKK to catch up with old mates.

[Sena Dave]

I think its the "Married" that could cause you a problem , If you are rotational 1 month on(In Thailand) 1 month off there really isn't a reason you should not get a spousal Visa. 1 yr Multi entry

Which is what i will do , just got to get married first