Farm Equipment, Organic Growing, Etc.

[JackPhuWiang]

My wife and I have about 20 rai in Phu Wang. Can't seem to find familiar equipment, like a tag disc harrow, vegetable planter, culti-packer, fertilizer spreader, etc. I farmed 40 acres of veggies in the 80's. Staying here for a cuple of months a year and gowing back to Hawaii to earn some more money. Planning to retire here in 2 years. Had to laugh about the post from the ex-brit ex-catleman and his comments about organic growing. Catlemen are naturally oposed to organic practices any way, might as well take an opinion from Monsanto or Dupont! I was organic for a couple of years, but gave it up. It was more expensive in time and inputs. There wasn't any fnancial incentive at that time. I just added premerge herbicides to the program and started making money. I was also on the committee that drew up the "Organic farm Certification" law for my state (Washington), so I was fairly well aquainted with the practices. The best thing about it IMO is the respect for the condition of the soil, and the health of the environment. I haven't seen much evidence that the health of human consumers is effected. I'd be interestd in any responses to the above and from anyon who has experience growing Sylo 180 or Cavalcade Centurion. Thanks--Jack

[chownah]

JackPhuWiang,

Welcome. Can't help you find anything on your list except to say that corn planters are widely available in Chiangrai. They plant two rows at at a time...at least the ones I've seen. I use a two wheeled tractor and have a single bottom plow, a two disc plow, and a solid tooth harrow...all are tag of course. I think you don't see much large tag type stuff because all the big tractors have hydraulic hitches...at least every single one that I have seen did. Labor is cheap here and alot of stuff is planted and fertilized by hand. I have also seen (on TV) a blower that blows fertilizer out over the field...it is hand held and you walk along and blow the fertilizer hither and yon...mostly seen it used in rice fields though. I think you could buy all the parts and have someone weld up a disc harrow if you can't find one somewhere. I have seen a few tractors with rototillers on the back for pulverizing soil for seed beds. I think this might be fuel intensive and with the price going up this practice might stop. If I was serious about wanting to find most of the stuff on your list I think I would go find some big farms (ask around and eventually you'll find someone who knows where a big farm is) and see what they use and where they get it and if they have some old stuff lieing around they want to get rid of.

Good luck, welcome, and keep us posted,

Chownah

[JackPhuWiang]

JackPhuWiang,

Welcome. Can't help you find anything on your list except to say that corn planters are widely available in Chiangrai. They plant two rows .....Hey Chownah, thanks for the welcome. I've been enjoying your remarks about stuff on the other forum (farming isaan). I decided to make a drag out of some chain link fence to cover pasture seed I'm trying. I've got samples of ruzzi, cavalcade, and stylo. All from DLD-Khon Kaen. Very nice folks BTW. On another subject, the well driller was out today. I saw one of his guys dowsing. I'd heard of it, but never seen it. I found out I've got the nack. Sure surprised me ehen the rods started to turn! Back to equipment, I won't be getting serious until I retire in two years. Just experimenting now. When I had my vegetable farm years ago, I saw what worked. I just can't relate to going back i time 75 years about everything. I may well go used equipment shopping in US and bring some junk over here as the duty isn't too bad. An old allis chalmers "C" for cultivating, and a Nibex planter (plants raw seed very precise)

would make it fun. Oh, and a culti packer for firming the seedbed. Probably end up putting the place in hay and not needing any of it.....BTW the tractor rototiller is great. It isn't too bad on fuel and does a lot in one pass. My JD uses under 4 liters/hour running a 6' tiller.---Jack

[chownah]

JackPhuWiang,

I'm interested in the rototiller. What hp/model is the JD (John Deere?). When getting 4 liters/hour running it what kind of soil were you working and how deep were you tilling it and how many acres/hour could you till? Also do you know your fuel consumption for other tasks with the same tractor...mold board plowing, disc plowing, disc harrowing, other?...on a per hour basis and acre/hour....etc.

A sit-down tractor may be in my future unless I can reverse the aging process.

Chownah

P.S. Am I correct in assuming that it is best to use a tractor that can disc plow and rototill (if you intend to use a rototiller) a swath at least as wide as the width of the rear wheels outboard to outboard?

Chownah

Edited July 12, 2006 by chownah

[chownah]

As luck would have it a man showed up this morning with a 7 month old Kubota tractor (28 horsepwer) with a rototiller on the back which tilled a 1.4 metre swath. I quized him and he uses about 4 litres per hour when tilling saturated rice paddy (usually a sandy clay soil around here) to a depth of usually between 10 and 15 centimetres (or so I estimate) and he can do about 1 rai in one hour...1 rai is equal to 0.4 acre. At todays fuel prices this comes to about 120 baht per rai for fuel for tilling the soil ready for planting (one step is all you need with the rototiller) while it takes about 80 baht per rai (my estimate...but I think its a reasonable one) for fuel if you use a two wheel walk behind tractor which includes three steps to prepare for planting; disc or mouldboard plow twice and harrow once. The one pass rototilling method is seen as not being the best at weed and nematode management compared to doing a first plowing in the dry season which kills weeds better and supposedly helps to solarize the soil and kill nematodes as well.

He charges 350 baht per rai to do the rototilling...so a farmer can do it for 80 baht (depreciation on a walk behind tractor is negligable...they last a long long time) thus saving 270 baht ballpark estimate. One rai proabably takes a farmer about one day to do all of the three operations to get the soil ready to plant and do it to just as well as with the rototiller...both of the plowing operations can be done in the early wet season and you will still get results as good as with the rototiller which means that the first plowing is much faster and easier which is why it only one day total for all of this work. A farmer who saves 270 baht by working one day will surely do the work since this is a very good daily wage around here...better than most farmers make with their off season employment which usually pays about 170 baht per day but the work is usually less physically demanding than the soil preparation.

You can hire someone with a big tractor to do the first plowing of the season (remember it takes two plowings) for 220 baht per rai. The fuel to do this first plowing with the two wheel tractor is ballpark 40 baht or even a bit more. It is the more difficult of the two plowings because often it is done when the fields are dry and takes more fuel for the tractor and more muscle for the farmer to manage the tractor. This means that the farmer can save 180 baht per rai by doing this work himself...but...to plow as deeply as the big tractor would mean that a farmer plowing one rai in one day would be pretty hot and tired....good strong farmers can do more but it is really really exhausting. The savings for doing it yourself for this work are ballpark the same as making regular wages....some farmers will do this work themselves and some will hire it done....depends on whether they have a job that pays at the time they want to plow and on how much energy they have (age related). I hire my uncle for construction projects around the house anytime he wants to work so he'd rather pay the big tractor for the first plowing and work for me for wages....that way even if it costs him a few baht extra he doesn't care because working for me doesn't tire him out so much...he's over 50 and starting to slow down. People who are not employed at the time for this first plowing are more likly to just go do it themselves both because they have got time to kill and they have no income to pay the big tractor with.

Also, people who have a larger acreage are more likely to hire a big tractor....there are a couple of people around here who rent land and hire almost all of the work done since they farm over 30 rai.

Edited July 13, 2006 by chownah

[JackPhuWiang]

As luck would have it a man showed up this morning with a 7 month old Kubota tractor (28 horsepwer) with a rototiller on the back which tilled a 1.4 metre swath. I quized him and he uses about 4 litres per hour when tilling saturated rice paddy (usually a sandy clay soil around here) to a depth of usually between 10 and 15 centimetres (or so I estimate) and he can do about 1 rai in one hour...1 rai is equal to 0.4 acre. At todays fuel prices this comes to about 120 baht per rai for fuel for tilling the soil ready for planting (one step is all you need with the rototiller) while it takes about 80 baht per rai (my estimate...but I think its a reasonable one) for fuel if you use a two wheel walk behind tractor which includes three steps to prepare for planting; disc or mouldboard plow twice and harrow once. The one pass rototilling method is seen as not being the best at weed and nematode management compared to doing a first plowing in the dry season which kills weeds better and supposedly helps to solarize the soil and kill nematodes as well.

He charges 350 baht per rai to do the rototilling...so a farmer can do it for 80 baht (depreciation on a walk behind tractor is negligable...they last a long long time) thus saving 270 baht ballpark estimate. One rai proabably takes a farmer about one day to do all of the three operations to get the soil ready to plant and do it to just as well as with the rototiller...both of the plowing operations can be done in the early wet season and you will still get results as good as with the rototiller which means that the first plowing is much faster and easier which is why it only one day total for all of this work. A farmer who saves 270 baht by working one day will surely do the work since this is a very good daily wage around here...better than most farmers make with their off season

employment which usually pays about 170 baht per day but the work is usually less physically demanding than the soil preparation.

You can hire someone with a big tractor to do the first plowing of the season (remember it takes two plowings) for 220 baht per rai. The fuel to do this first plowing with the two wheel tractor is ballpark 40 baht or even a bit more. It is the more difficult of the two plowings because often it is done when the fields are dry and takes more fuel for the tractor and more muscle for the farmer to manage the tractor. This means that the farmer can save 180 baht per rai by doing this work himself...but...to plow as deeply as the big tractor would mean that a farmer plowing one rai in one day would be pretty hot and tired....good strong farmers can do more but it is really really exhausting. The savings for doing it yourself for this work are ballpark the same as making regular wages....some farmers will do this work themselves and some will hire it done....depends on whether they have a job that pays at the time they want to plow and on how much energy they have (age related). I hire my uncle for construction projects around the house anytime he wants to work so he'd rather pay the big tractor for the first plowing and work for me for wages....that way even if it costs him a few baht extra he doesn't care because working for me doesn't tire him out so much...he's over 50 and starting to slow down. People who are not employed at the time for this first plowing are more likly to just go do it themselves both because they have got time to kill and they have no income to pay the big tractor with.

Also, people who have a larger acreage are more likely to hire a big tractor....there are a couple of people around here who rent land and hire almost all of the work done since they farm over 30 rai.

Hey sorry I haven't gotten back. Trouble with the internet. Figures you quoted sound right. BTW mine is a jd 5610k at 55hp. It tills about 2m to 25cm at 1 rai/hour. I got some trial forage plots planted. A little ruzzi a little stylo, and 1 rai of cavalcade. I'm leaving around the 20th or so so I hope my step son sends me some photos. We do have a six disc plow and a dozer blade. Lots of work for the blade, but haven't used the plow yet. Maybe our son can get some work with it. He just took over my wife's sheet metal business, so not much spare time. I don't know if I mentioned it earlier , but also planted some white pineapple (variety I smuggled in from Hawaii) Some fruit trees and some flowers. It has been quite dry at our place, so I hope our well gets drilled tomorrow. Getting that going has been a real headache. Some rain would be very appreciated. I worry about some of the marginal rce growers. I guess most of the rain is way North.--Jack

[brahmburgers]

two things to watch out for re; getting a well drilled;

1. for a 4" PVC casing they're required to put little screws in at the junctions of the 4 meter pipes. I didn't know that when I had already paid the well driller and was trying to lower my submersible pump down the hole. The well was 27 meters deep, but the pump only went down a few meters. I found out several headaches later that the ding dong who put the screws in used screws that were too long - thereby sticking thru the casing and obstructing the pump. We devised a way to break off the screw ends (an old motor cylinder attached to rods) and now it's ok.

2. without asking/telling me beforehand, the driller dropped a 4 meter length of smaller diameter down my well. So I couldn't lower my pump closer than 4 meters from the bottom. I already knew that pumps are supposed to be a couple meters or so clear from the bottom because of silt build-up - but I didn't want my lower well blocked without prior being informed.

It's part of a series of constant reminders; - if you get any sort of uncommon work done by a Thai (someone who has not worked for you earlier, or who is doing some new type of gig) - it's imperative to stand right at their shoulder to make sure they're not going to screw up. You never know what sort of weird surprises will crop up - especially if you turn your back for a moment. If you start to explain some new gig (placing elec wires within a wall cavity for example) a Thai worker will invariably cut you off and say he understands, "no problem" - but as often as not, you find out later he didn't actually understand. ...can be especially frustrating for things that can't be readily be undone, like cement/tile work or planting a tree much too deep, or...... the list goes on.