German bar owner murdered on Koh Samui island

[manxcay]

If your a farang who's coming to Thailand then take heed: learn about Thai culture and respect it, or it might end up costing you your life like it did this German dude.

If I ever go back there I'm gonna try to just stick to the Farang areas as much as possible.

[media]

Shame the poor guy didnt even get to hospital, his wife should have used something (like her jacket or something) and wrapped it around his neck to reduce bleeding while arranging a baht bus to rush him to hospital.

People should have reacted quickly to save him. Not being negative but I bet the Thai's just stood there and didnt do anything (ive seen that before, I was the only person who helped a guy that had a hole in his head gushing out blood with every heart beat, I tried to stop the bleeding with make shift items at the road side)

[louse1953]

Someone sitting on your bike, happened to me before, just smile at them, they move off, and you get on with your life

If you sat on my bike, I would punch you in the face and then smile. Have a nice day a..hole.

You need to fix that attitude, before it fixes you.

Many times, in Thailand, I have sat on someone else's bike and they have sat on mine. If the owner comes along you give a nod and get up. Same with someone who sits on your bike.

The key is always to avoid confrontation. Even if you are the hardest dude in town. You don't need to smile. You just need to let them know without aggression. Unless there is damage to your bike, there is no need to create drama. There are few places to sit and motorbikes are ubiquitous. No need to create bad feeling over something so small.

If you approached me in such a manner, I would feel affronted and perhaps respond to you in an equally abrupt manner. Which might lead to an altercation. You might not emerge the winner. Would it have been worth it?

You don't always have to smile. People can sense when you don't have a good mood, but you don't need to be aggressive or belittle. Don't make enemies.

I'm certainly not commenting on what happened to the person mentioned in the original story. I was not there, so have no right to pass judgment.

Why sit on somebodies bike in the 1st place.

[hellohello123]

The cultural barrier is down and no longer protects the arrogant white man__he caused these young punks to lose face and paid the price. Yes, alcohol is great stuff for murder -- remember, it diminshes ihibitions. Best take heed.

<deleted> this face bullshit

Non owner sitting on bike, owner comes along and gets angry

What has face got to do with it????

When will they learn that face gets people nowhere

Hope the kids get life in prison so they can assess whether life in prison was worth the face

Face has everything to do with it in their minds but not in yours. And causing a Thai to lose face, as we've seen many times can cause you to lose your life.

I don't deny that, but I'f he sits in prison for the rest or his life while maintaining his face and if he thinks it's worth it, then so be it

He does not see it the same way you or I do. Yes it's not worth it but the biggest loss is the Germans life and probably due to testoterone. Not that I am blaming him for being killed, it certainly was not his fault but if he has lived here long enough he knows the way to to deal with these animals and he made a wrong choice.

That's my point in regards to the offender, if he sits in prison thinking "oh that was worth it, I have my face intact" then it's his value judgement, but if he regrets it, then I have a few choice words for him

I'm not arguing the difference in how I see things

[nicolas18]

Someone sitting on your bike, happened to me before, just smile at them, they move off, and you get on with your life

Another apologist for the unacceptable behaviour of Thai youth (and their elders).

Why is it never the Thai's fault ?

Are you that desperate to live in or just like Thailand that you'll put up with a never ending shafting at the behest of thugs and lawless teens ?

Sad but the way things are these days, now it has mostly gone to sh*t.

It has nothing to do with Thais and farangs. The teens could have been Mexican or Dutch, the result would have probably been the same.

I have no idea where you're from, but, in my country, it would be very unwise to start shouting at a bunch of teenagers who happen to be sitting on your bike at 6AM, especially if they're drunk. Does it excuse the murder? Hell no! But it is unwise nevertheless. The advice from that guy you quoted is correct: try to defuse the situation and smile.

Oh, and one more thing: "never ending shafting at the behest of thugs and lawless teens"?? I have lived here for six years, never gotten into a fight and never felt in the least bit threatened, even while walking home at 3AM. This is more than I could say about most countries in Europe. Yes, shit happens here too, but please don't start with the "They all want to kill us!" BS.

[realenglish1]

Gee and I thought Miami Beach was bad!

[maximillian]

Someone sitting on your bike, happened to me before, just smile at them, they move off, and you get on with your life

Yep had it happen many times......they soon move off.

Such a normal thing around bar areas, walk up, smile, greet, and they naturally move to another bike. I do not blame the victim but he used the wrong strategy for Thailand. sad

Only guessing, but I do know my fellow German countrymen.

They also lose temper very quickly and very often feel strong and superior because they are big and fat and think they can buy the world with their savings.

Alcohol may have played a part on both sides.

Nevertheless I hope they get the killer soon and lock him away forever.

RIP I do not say as I am an atheist.

Sent from my electric typewriter.

[Maggusoil]

How long had he lived in Thailand?

[Udoth]

First RIP to the poor gentleman. If the smile does not work walk away and come back later when they are gone.

Sorry but are you seriously suggesting that one should just walk off if encountering a Thai man sitting on your bike and wait for him to leave? Unbelievable!

The cultural barrier is down and no longer protects the arrogant white man

So you're saying that is arrogant to tell someone not to sit on your bike but perfectly fine to sit on a stranger's bike in the first place?

You sound like just another Thai apologist blaming the foreign victim.

I have a German neighbour who Hates Thai people, he claims they are the utmost lazy and worthless people), he thinks he is superiour and the things he says and does are unacceptable, he already got punched one time by my father in law because he claimed some land+wood was his while it wasn't and he wanted to build a wall arround it! The arrogancy... I wouldn't be suprised if something would happen to him one day. Luckely the people in the village are not violent.

I sit on peoples bikes and people sit on my bike.. no problem at all, just ask politely if they would want to sit somewhere else and there will be no problem. What's with all the angry Germans, what is their problem one would ask. They are generally respectless in many ways.

[Maggusoil]

Someone sitting on your bike, happened to me before, just smile at them, they move off, and you get on with your life

Yep had it happen many times......they soon move off.

Such a normal thing around bar areas, walk up, smile, greet, and they naturally move to another bike. I do not blame the victim but he used the wrong strategy for Thailand. sad

Only guessing, but I do know my fellow German countrymen.

They also lose temper very quickly and very often feel strong and superior because they are big and fat and think they can buy the world with their savings.

Alcohol may have played a part on both sides.

Nevertheless I hope they get the killer soon and lock him away forever.

RIP I do not say as I am an atheist.

Sent from my electric typewriter.

Whether or not 'they' find anyone to lock away forever, the bar owner has been.

[BradinAsia]

Someone sitting on your bike, happened to me before, just smile at them, they move off, and you get on with your life

Another apologist for the unacceptable behaviour of Thai youth (and their elders).

Why is it never the Thai's fault ?

Are you that desperate to live in or just like Thailand that you'll put up with a never ending shafting at the behest of thugs and lawless teens ?

Sad but the way things are these days, now it has mostly gone to sh*t.

SGD, think about it. If you are dead does it matter whose fault it is?

When I was growing up in the U.S., teenage boys always needed to defend their macho ego

and were very quick to start a fight over anything. As folks grow up, they usually mature a bit

and outgrow these juvenile tendencies.

But, some guys never grow up, never mature. I've seen retirement age farangs get all bent out

of shape over the slightest issue. It's almost as if they have a hard-on against the world and are

just waiting for any perceived offense, then they will proceed to teach the world how to behave.

Not a good recipe for a happy life, I'd say.

[barrito]

I hear those readers who say just smile and keep your calm...but for me that is just feeding this undisciplined behaviour and vigilante type culture that pervades here. There is a lack of simple respect for peoples belongings/property and ultimately civil rights and law. I am saddened to hear that such protection of assets lead to death, however as many of you say, we do not know the full story. I am sure that the next time I am cut off on the motorway or a non existent lane is created out of nowhere, putting my safety at risk...im surely not going to smile and say Good on You brother

[henrymeier99]

I agree, Germans are very annoying quickly, like Russians, Britishs, Australians, etc.

This teen pack there are around the world.

[crazydrummerpauly]

The land of smiles - ok for a holiday or brief adventure - to live long term and own property / business ? - nah, not worth the grief.

[NativeSon360]

The cultural barrier is down and no longer protects the arrogant white man__he caused these young punks to lose face and paid the price. Yes, alcohol is great stuff for murder -- remember, it diminshes ihibitions. Best take heed.

<deleted> this face bullshit

Non owner sitting on bike, owner comes along and gets angry

What has face got to do with it????

When will they learn that face gets people nowhere

Hope the kids get life in prison so they can assess whether life in prison was worth the face

Face has everything to do with it in their minds but not in yours. And causing a Thai to lose face, as we've seen many times can cause you to lose your life.

I don't deny that, but I'f he sits in prison for the rest or his life while maintaining his face and if he thinks it's worth it, then so be it

He does not see it the same way you or I do. Yes it's not worth it but the biggest loss is the Germans life and probably due to testoterone. Not that I am blaming him for being killed, it certainly was not his fault but if he has lived here long enough he knows the way to to deal with these animals and he made a wrong choice.

That's my point in regards to the offender, if he sits in prison thinking "oh that was worth it, I have my face intact" then it's his value judgement, but if he regrets it, then I have a few choice words for him

I'm not arguing the difference in how I see things

YOU, sir, as a so-called senior member on this forum, with that kind of perspective, re: Thai people, is that have, as a "guest" in the Kingdom ? Granted they (the Thais) certainly have some serious "growing-up" to do (for a people who's culture pre-dates both the Greek and Roman Empires), but why are you still here, if you consider Thais to be such animals. That German lost his life because he was just plain stupid. That same incident could just have easily happened to him in Germany. FYI -

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Someone sitting on your bike, happened to me before, just smile at them, they move off, and you get on with your life

If you sat on my bike, I would punch you in the face and then smile. Have a nice day a..hole.

You need to fix that attitude, before it fixes you.

Many times, in Thailand, I have sat on someone else's bike and they have sat on mine. If the owner comes along you give a nod and get up. Same with someone who sits on your bike.

The key is always to avoid confrontation. Even if you are the hardest dude in town. You don't need to smile. You just need to let them know without aggression. Unless there is damage to your bike, there is no need to create drama. There are few places to sit and motorbikes are ubiquitous. No need to create bad feeling over something so small.

If you approached me in such a manner, I would feel affronted and perhaps respond to you in an equally abrupt manner. Which might lead to an altercation. You might not emerge the winner. Would it have been worth it?

You don't always have to smile. People can sense when you don't have a good mood, but you don't need to be aggressive or belittle. Don't make enemies.

I'm certainly not commenting on what happened to the person mentioned in the original story. I was not there, so have no right to pass judgment.

Why sit on somebodies bike in the 1st place.

Comfortable and convenient. I've done it many a time. Almost without thinking. Most people don't mind, as long as you don't cause damage. Motorbikes are designed for sitting on. I know how easy it is to do, so don't make a problem when someone does it to me. If they are playing with the mirror, I might give a frown and they might return an embarrassed smile. Nothing beyond the expected, so no one over-reacts.

But if your normal behaviour is to over-react, you might get an over-reaction in return.

If someone over-reacts to you without reason, step back...and then work out how you can overcome the situation.

[Benmart]

Someone sitting on your bike, happened to me before, just smile at them, they move off, and you get on with your life

Another apologist for the unacceptable behaviour of Thai youth (and their elders).

Why is it never the Thai's fault ?

Are you that desperate to live in or just like Thailand that you'll put up with a never ending shafting at the behest of thugs and lawless teens ?

Sad but the way things are these days, now it has mostly gone to sh*t.

I didn't read any apology for their behavior in the post.

What I did read was a possible alternative to avoid confrontation and avoid a replication of what happened to the man that was murdered.

Life is full of options. One is choosing what path to take when confronted with illogical behaviors or thoughts.

Putting up with potentially life-ending behavior is certainly an option. Smiling and moving on is a viable alternative to having one's life ended.

I prefer that my headstone say that I lived a long and good life and not one that says "He stood up to the thugs and lawless teens".

Retreating and letting those better trained and equipped to handle dangerous situations is an alternative I have learned to adopt.

I wasnt there, didn't see what happened and certainly am not qualified to say who is an apologist.

[bander]

Not suicide this time? What did the witnesses do, help the thai boys to beat the German? Normally Thais don't start a fight with one farang if they not have at least 10 friends to back them up. Another stab to the tourist industry in Ko Samui :-(

[bobthomas]

watching violence on TV and on all the Available DVDs plus playing mostly violent video games and adding alcohol with friends showing off you have the recipe for murders not only in Koh PhanGan the naughtiest but even in Koh Samui like often in the old days prior its airport opening but all over Thailand being non educated to be added.

Shame for the Smiles so fake seen all around.

So sad incident that should have never happened ending with this death.

The three boys are accomplices and the murderer looking for his all life to be ruined.

It's about communication! Anywhere in the world........ If you're gonna act like a tough guy............ya better be a tough guy!

better to just say- "hey, how ya doin- what's up?

and then just drive home peacefully

[bdenner]

Just another point from me having owned many bikes new and old - both on and off road in Australia. Where is the problem with someone sitting on it outside a pub or anywhere else? They are not doing any harm and it is not an act of malice, just a matter of convenience for a chat or whatever.

My condolences to the family BUT I'm still of the belief that he should have been more conservative.

[NativeSon360]

I hear those readers who say just smile and keep your calm...but for me that is just feeding this undisciplined behaviour and vigilante type culture that pervades here. There is a lack of simple respect for peoples belongings/property and ultimately civil rights and law. I am saddened to hear that such protection of assets lead to death, however as many of you say, we do not know the full story. I am sure that the next time I am cut off on the motorway or a non existent lane is created out of nowhere, putting my safety at risk...im surely not going to smile and say Good on You brother

Apparently, you're another red BULL farang, determined to learn lessons in Thailand. You will NEVER win against the childish menfolk of this Kingdom. Goodmorning, sir

[slipperylobster]

If I could only count the many, many close calls I have had, in similar situations. My size (and temper) just attracted unwanted attention. Now I am much older and frail. Not that bluffing ever got me out of trouble. Dumb luck only kept me alive. (Both Thailand and Philippines together total 20 years in dark, nasty areas).

Now live an almost normal life. We do manage do get out 3 or 4 times a month for some pub-ery. I mostly bring my gal with me...as a designated driver/referee. She does not drink.

Takes years to tone down a lifestyle.

Sorry this man had the worst possible outcome in a bad situation, where he had no chance of walking away.

[billmunday10]

Why does everyone keep talking like this is such a big problem in Thailand compared to anywhere else??

This kind of thing sadly happens all the time all over the world

Doesn't mean you should live your life letting people get away with everything because of the very rare possibility you will get viciously murdered.

This isn't to say that a polite approach first is always the best in any situation but if that doesn't work I would defiantly not walk away until they decide they want to get off the bike.

In the 10 years I've lived here being a respectful polite person has got me into a lot less trouble than it would back home in London where people picking fights is a nightly occurrence.

But on the wrong night with the wrong people your luck can be out in any country in the world. RIP

[hellohello123]

The cultural barrier is down and no longer protects the arrogant white man__he caused these young punks to lose face and paid the price. Yes, alcohol is great stuff for murder -- remember, it diminshes ihibitions. Best take heed.

<deleted> this face bullshit

Non owner sitting on bike, owner comes along and gets angry

What has face got to do with it????

When will they learn that face gets people nowhere

Hope the kids get life in prison so they can assess whether life in prison was worth the face

Face has everything to do with it in their minds but not in yours. And causing a Thai to lose face, as we've seen many times can cause you to lose your life.

I don't deny that, but I'f he sits in prison for the rest or his life while maintaining his face and if he thinks it's worth it, then so be it

He does not see it the same way you or I do. Yes it's not worth it but the biggest loss is the Germans life and probably due to testoterone. Not that I am blaming him for being killed, it certainly was not his fault but if he has lived here long enough he knows the way to to deal with these animals and he made a wrong choice.

That's my point in regards to the offender, if he sits in prison thinking "oh that was worth it, I have my face intact" then it's his value judgement, but if he regrets it, then I have a few choice words for him

I'm not arguing the difference in how I see things

YOU, sir, as a so-called senior member on this forum, with that kind of perspective, re: Thai people, is that have, as a "guest" in the Kingdom ? Granted they (the Thais) certainly have some serious "growing-up" to do (for a people who's culture pre-dates both the Greek and Roman Empires), but why are you still here, if you consider Thais to be such animals. That German lost his life because he was just plain stupid. That same incident could just have easily happened to him in Germany. FYI -

At no point did I say Thais were animals, at no point did I say Thais needed to grow up

What relevance does me being or not being thailand have anything to do with it

In fact I've actually said more then once in this thread, if you (bar owner) is going to act like a total tool, then be prepared to accept the potential consequences

Edited August 20, 2014 by hellohello123

[bander]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Another example of peaceful Thailand. Education and behavior of many youths far below average level because of failed education system.

How can you educate somebody who don't want any education? They rather want to hang out with friends in gangs and fight with other Thai gangs or beat up some foreigners who try to teach them good manners. Hope they get executed to make a statement what happens when you kill tourists

[hkt83100]

Someone sitting on your bike, happened to me before, just smile at them, they move off, and you get on with your life

So that's what you will do if I sat on your bike?

What if the smile doesn't work? What's your next approach?

Very easy. I take my key out of the pocket and play with the alarm of the bike. That has been enough to show that I am planning to drive away. It worked in all cases.

Normally the alarm would have gone off anyway, it is sensitive enough to screetch if some is sitting down on the bike.

[my friend you]

First RIP to the poor gentleman. If the smile does not work walk away and come back later when they are gone.

Sorry but are you seriously suggesting that one should just walk off if encountering a Thai man sitting on your bike and wait for him to leave? Unbelievable!

The cultural barrier is down and no longer protects the arrogant white man

So you're saying that is arrogant to tell someone not to sit on your bike but perfectly fine to sit on a stranger's bike in the first place?

You sound like just another Thai apologist blaming the foreign victim.

I have a German neighbour who Hates Thai people, he claims they are the utmost lazy and worthless people), he thinks he is superiour and the things he says and does are unacceptable, he already got punched one time by my father in law because he claimed some land+wood was his while it wasn't and he wanted to build a wall arround it! The arrogancy... I wouldn't be suprised if something would happen to him one day. Luckely the people in the village are not violent.

I sit on peoples bikes and people sit on my bike.. no problem at all, just ask politely if they would want to sit somewhere else and there will be no problem. What's with all the angry Germans, what is their problem one would ask. They are generally respectless in many ways.

Seems like you are German yourself...?

I am, and after 12 years in Thailand I don't perceive German farangs here as overly agressive or arrogant, just about same as average western farang.

We don't even KNOW in detail what really happened there.

However even IF his behaviour was angry and disrespectful - which we don't know - it is not a reason to kill him. You agree?

[slipperylobster]

There was a family dynasty thing going on in Luzon, Philippines...of which I will not mention the name. If a tourist was killed or harmed, a hit squad would be sent out to track down the violator. Often times a body would be found with a plastic bag taped over the head and a sign tied around the neck warning not to attack Tourists. It was called "salvaging". No need for court.

Just noting the remarkable difference. Although I do consider Thailand much safer...overall.

[bander]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Why does everyone keep talking like this is such a big problem in Thailand compared to anywhere else??
This kind of thing sadly happens all the time all over the world
Doesn't mean you should live your life letting people get away with everything because of the very rare possibility you will get viciously murdered.
This isn't to say that a polite approach first is always the best in any situation but if that doesn't work I would defiantly not walk away until they decide they want to get off the bike.
In the 10 years I've lived here being a respectful polite person has got me into a lot less trouble than it would back home in London where people picking fights is a nightly occurrence.
But on the wrong night with the wrong people your luck can be out in any country in the world. RIP

So since it happens everywhere in the world means its OK that its happening here as well, we should just ignore post like this and not comment how disgusted this kind of behavior is. Are you for real?

[Bulldozer Dawn]

A couple of things:

1. RIP to the German. He is about my age and also "livin the dream" in Thailand

2. The youths will get convicted with a 500THB fine

3. The youths will be ya ice users but the police will not screen for that

And finally and most importantly, as I have already posted a number of other times in other recent threads, violence against farangs in Phuket and other Island destinations will spike dramatically over the next few months. It is fuelled by racist sentiment that can now flourish under the rule of the Junta. It is also fuelled by angst over mounting debt to loan sharks as job losses bite after the junta has cleared out hundreds of beachside businesses and the illegal taxi trade.