Immigration clarifies new regulations for foreigners in Chiang Mai

[Tywais]

Immigration clarifies new regulations for foreigners in Chiang Mai

Visa runs, overstay, and extensions of stay discussed

Members of the Chiang Mai diplomatic corps from Japan, the U.S., U.K., Canada,

France, Switzerland, Austria, Finland, South Korea, and Peru met with officers from

Chiang Mai Immigration to discuss the new regulations.

Chiang Mai Immigration officials laid out the new regulations regarding overstay, in/out border trips, and extensions as well as cleared up many questions held by foreign residents at a meeting held organized by the Chiang Mai Chamber of Commerce at the Imperial Mae Ping Hotel on Wednesday, August 20, 2014.

Chiang Mai Immigration authorities met with members of the diplomatic corps, media and interested parties and went over, point by point, the new regulations. The event, which was opened by ranking diplomat Japanese Consul General Akihiko Fujii, was held in English and in Thai and clarified the many new changes in effect as well as offered explanations for some of the changes that all foreigners would like to see.

The Superintendent of Chiang Mai Immigration, Pol Col. Rutphong Sanwanangkum was joined by fellow Immigration officers Thawatchai Changoern and Pol.Sen.Sgt.Maj. Suranuch Srilapetch in opening the meeting where they started off by discussing the current changes announced in Act number 327/2557. The first was in regards to teaching personnel. Previously, only teachers with teaching certification could get a one year extension on their visas but now non-teaching education personnel, such as a librarian or technical support person for the school, are also eligible for the one year extension under section 2.6.

Another major change affects the students in non-formal educational institutes such as language or cooking schools, religious studies etc. in that they must renew their extension every 90 days and after one year must leave the country and obtain a new visa. However, this regulation does not apply to private schools, for example Montfort College but only those offering non-formal education.

The dependents of those entering the country on a non-OA (retirement) or non-IA (missionary) visa are now able to get their one year dependent extension in Chiang Mai in one day. The extension will extend to expire on the same day as the visa of their spouse. However, they must show proof of the relationship, such as a marriage certificate. The regulation on dependent children has now been expanded to include age exceptions for handicapped or disabled children. Previously all children under the age of 20 were eligible for a dependent child extension and once they were over the age of 20 would need to get their own visa. However, an exception has now been instituted for handicapped or disabled children over the age of 20; they will still be eligible for the dependent child extension with a letter from a doctor at a government hospital.

After the recent surrogate parent issues the Immigration Office now requires that if the parents of a foreign child born in Thailand wish to take the child out of the country they must have a passport from their home country (obtained in Thailand) and the child must travel with the parents and the parents must show both the birth certificate and passport.

Another issue facing local residents has been the volunteer visa, previously those applying for the extension needed to obtain a letter from the Ministry of Social Development and Welfare as well the organization meeting the normal requirements. The documents would then be sent off to Bangkok and returned within 30 days. Now, those volunteers who have the letter can extend for one year in Chiang Mai and get one year in the same day. However, those with no letter can extend every 90 days for a maximum of one year.

A major change involves those requiring medical extensions as now Immigration requires a letter on the letterhead of a government hospital to obtain the medical extension. The patient does not need to be treated at the government hospital but the letter requesting the medical extension must be on the hospital’s letterhead from a doctor that also practices at that hospital. For those entering the country on a 30 day visa exemption, it is possible to extend the stay for a maximum of 90 days per request.

Professional athletes have now been given their own category and may apply for a one year extension to play sports in Thailand but will need to show a contract with a minimum salary of 40,000 baht a month and a letter from the Sports Authority, the employing company will still need to show 2 million baht in registered capital per person.

The issue of overstay came up and they reiterated that that those who overstay will be restricted from entering the country. An overstay of more than 90 days and they will be forbidden from entering Thailand for 1 year, an overstay of more than a year but less than 3 years will see a 3 year restriction, an overstay of more than 3 years but less than 5 years a 5 year restriction. Those on an overstay of more than 5 years will be forbidden from entering for 10 years and an overstay of more than 10 years will extend the entry ban for life.

They then addressed the issues of what to do when your visa status changes, for instance the spouse that holds a dependent extension on a foreigner in Thailand on an OA visa will see their visa cancelled immediately if the person holding the non-IMM OA visa dies. However, if the person is in Thailand on a married to a Thai person extension, either husband or wife, and the Thai spouse dies then the foreign partner’s extension will remain valid until it expires but they will not be able to obtain a new extension and must find another kind of visa.

If the person is in Thailand on a non-B associated with their work they no longer have to leave the country if they change employers, however, they must cancel their current visa and go to Immigration with the new employment contract and they will be issued a new visa based on the new employer at Immigration in Chiang Mai, according to K. Thawatchai.

The officers then discussed the issue of in/out stamps, noting that the 30 days on arrival at the airport, or 30 days at a land border for citizens of G7 countries, is for tourists only. Those who do border runs for visas will be restricted and the Immigration officer at the border can ask to see a confirmed onward flight ticket. K. Thawatchai emphasized that it must be confirmed, it cannot be an open ended ticket. He urged tourists who plan on staying in Thailand longer to get a tourist visa, either in their home countries or in neighboring countries such as Laos, Cambodia or Malaysia. But again he noted, this is for tourists and that those wishing to stay long term must get a long term visa.

He added that for offshore workers who work outside the country for several months and then return regularly, but also leave and stay out for a period of time, will have no issue leaving and re-entering the country. However, he said that if they want to stay longer than a month they can get a tourist visa or they can extend their stay by 7 days in the country. This also applies to those who travel to Thailand regularly but also go home regularly. He did confirm that those entering Thailand on a 30 day visa exempt entry can only extend for 7 days in Thailand; a tourist visa can extend for 30 days.

He noted that online work for overseas companies that pay overseas is not prohibited but that the person will need to get a visa to stay longer, currently there is no new visa for these kinds of people.
K. Thawatchai stressed, “We try to balance service and enforcement but we must follow regulations. We have pressure from serving so many foreigners each day but we try to do our best.” He noted that some officers end up working to 8 p.m. to finish up their paperwork every day. He added that the last ten years has seen a huge growth in the number of foreigners, last year alone the number of foreigners serviced in Chiang Mai grew 4 times but the number of officers and the budget did not grow so much. They have worked to ease things by moving the offices dealing with migrant workers to the offices opposite Promenada but noted that the Residence Letter must be obtained there.

He added that for those foreign citizens who need to obtain a letter confirming proof of life for their home country governments to obtain their pension that their office cannot provide this and they must go to their Consulate or Embassy, he added that some countries may allow a notarized letter.

Pol Col. Rutphong Sanwanangkum told the Chiang Mai Mail that he has submitted the request for approval of the budget to build a new building on the site of the current one near the Airport, noting he has signed the application and that they have the plans in place and are ready to go but need budget approval. He added that if the budget for next year is approved for the construction they hope to have a new building within two years. There will be a temporary office nearby that will open for Immigration but once the building is done it will have an underground car park and will be able to accommodate the increased numbers more comfortably.

K. Thawatchai is hoping to streamline the 90 day check in process but must have approval of the new system, he added that he would like to issue each person with a long term extension with a card which they could just swipe at the Immigration office but again, approval must come from Bangkok. Currently you can report in person 15 days before or 7 days after, by mail or by giving someone the power of attorney to report for you. He added that the reason they stopped using the bar code system was that they had changed computer systems and all information must be inputted in the new system. He is hoping that the bar code system can be re-started once the new system is up and running. He added that this is different than the notification made by your landlord and that the notification by the landlord does not replace the 90 day report.

The officers were very patient in taking the many questions covering these issues of concern and noted that they would love to streamline the 90 day report process too but must follow regulations coming from Bangkok.

British Honorary Consul Ben Svasti Thomson concluded the meeting by thanking Finnish Honorary Consul and member of the Chiang Mai Chamber of Commerce Narong Kongprasert and the Chamber for organizing the event adding that he hoped it would become a more regular occurrence.

“I can see this type of meeting is very much needed and I hope that we see this type of informal meeting happening again. As we go into the AEC next year and we become a more international city these meetings will become even more important,” Ben Svasti Thomason said. He concluded, “Thank you again to Immigration and the Chiang Mai Chamber for organizing this meeting and I hope we can see each other again.”

Source here - Chiang Mai Mail

[chiangmaimail]August 24, 2014[/chiangmaimail]

[Mapguy]

Much of this is relevant to Chiang Mai, but you can read the underlying police orders (both original Thai and English translations) applicable nationally here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/749918-thai-immigration-issues-new-police-order-3272557-effective-august-29-2014/

[wilcopops]

e.g - 24th August?

[wilcopops]

Much of this is relevant to Chiang Mai, but you can read the underlying police orders (both original Thai and English translations) applicable nationally here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/749918-thai-immigration-issues-new-police-order-3272557-effective-august-29-2014/

So you think the guy is incorrect or Chiang Mai aren't going to subscribe to this?

[Mapguy]

Much of this is relevant to Chiang Mai, but you can read the underlying police orders (both original Thai and English translations) applicable nationally here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/749918-thai-immigration-issues-new-police-order-3272557-effective-august-29-2014/

So you think the guy is incorrect or Chiang Mai aren't going to subscribe to this?

Sorry for any misunderstanding. What the Chiang Mai chief said appears (as far as the news report goes) to be consistent with the police orders. I meant that the colonel also spoke to some matters relevant only to Chiang Mai, such as the plan for a new building and added staff both of which are really being overcome by the influx of new tourists, and especailly, new retirees.

If anyone who is considering retiring here happens to read this, if you are of a nervous nature, then you might want to look elsewhere for paradise! It might not be so good here for your blood pressure!

Edited August 24, 2014 by Mapguy

[mesquite]

Did the man on the far left play for the Lakers? How tall is that guy?

[ukrules]

He urged tourists who plan on staying in Thailand longer to get a tourist visa, either in their home countries or in neighboring countries such as Laos, Cambodia or Malaysia. But again he noted, this is for tourists and that those wishing to stay long term must get a long term visa.

How long is long term ? 1 year, 5 years ?

[BKKSnowBird]

I thought a 30 day VOA could now be exstened 30 days. He says only 7 still.

[Mapguy]

Most of the initial responses above are not serious. Perhaps Tywais might have initiated a new thread that people DO read. It has always been very clear that very, very few people bother to read the top-most "news" thread unless they want to know the next date of the various expatriate organization meetings.

On the other hand, of course, it is Sunday, a day of rest for many people!

Edited August 24, 2014 by Mapguy

[Mapguy]

Uh oh! The main thread on this matter on the CM site has been closed, but you can still read posts about 90 day reporting at the end of that thread!

Would someone please show us all where --- anywhere --- in any pertinent enforceable official document that there is any legislative or administrative requirement for a power of attorney needed for an agent to make a 90 day report for another individual!

If that is officially confirmed ---and it is enforced --- the Chiang Mai Immigration Office will become a real living hell for the staff and those registering.

[Tywais]

Would someone please show us all where --- anywhere --- in any pertinent enforceable official document that there is any legislative or administrative requirement for a power of attorney needed for an agent to make a 90 day report for another individual!

This is from the Thailand main immigration site: That implies to me that some mechanism is necessary to allow authorization of someone to do the 90 day reports for you. Does not state POA but implies that or something similar. I know when I first came to work here I had to sign a form at the university that gave them proxy authority (aka POA) to do my immigration stuff so not new but probably not heavily enforced for a while now. How 'authorises' is interpreted by immigration is another matter and perhaps the Thai version of the information/regulation may clarify it.

1. The foreigner makes the notification in person, or
2. The foreigner authorises another person to make the notification, or
3. The foreigner makes the notification by registered mail.
4. The notification must be made within 15 days before or after 7 days the period of 90 days expires.
5. The first application for extension of stay by the foreigner is equivalent to the notification of staying in the Kingdom over 90 days.

[northernjohn]

I took the time to read the whole article on the other thread. I would suggest people read it who are interested in nit picking.

It looks like there is plans in the works to stream line the 90 day. Not that it is that bad now. But they are looking at ways to make it easier. That was very clearly stated. It looked to me as we who are on the retirement visa (and I say that because that is what my retirement Visa says) will face no changes. It seemed to me that a lot of the others would be a little bit more work to get. Some where made easier.

For the most part it looks more like any complaining should come from the staff who have to do so much more with maybe two more staff and that is a big maybe.

When it came to the new building being built on the same sight my mind immediately saw a huge mess there with the construction and the increasing foreigners coming in.

The one thing that was not mentioned and I am curious about is the mail in. All they have to do is send in a photo copy. Where as we who go in must have are passport. Not really a problem there but those who have an agent do it for them must give him their passport then go over and get it back from the agent. Why can't they do the same as the mail in and just use a copy like they used to. Maybe they have changed back now but the last time I was in there I saw a lady with a box full of passports.

Also I wouldn't get to worried about it. Seems like the Prime Minister is already changing his previous statement and making it a little easier for some areas. Wait another month or three and see what we have then.

[alant]

Did the man on the far left play for the Lakers? How tall is that guy?

Maybe everyone else are short <deleted>

[alant]

Firstly I would just say what a good thing these meetings are.

I do wonder, with offices such as Chiang Mai having problems with an increased workload if at the next meeting our representatives could ask the Superintendent if Bangkok have considered withdrawing the 90 day report?

If not would you please so that the staff can get home on time.

[Christie Paul]

Over the years I have seen several emerging industries that are initially encouraged and then crushed with bureaucracy.

The jewellery industry, arose and now its in its death rattles.

The film industry really got going but for the last five or more years is stagnating.

The IT business was a late bloomer, but the country attracted a bit of talent and few things started to happen. But its the usual story, a diminishing pool of talent and regulations that seem to "kick in", just when your making some headway. It's not a controversial statement to say that its just an uncompetitive place for the development of these kind of business's.

I've operated companies all over the world. The due diligence and effort required to keep a Thai company legal are horrendous and serve to discourage traders. There are exceptions, but its one of the last places, one would want to incorporate, from a competitive standpoint.

At first I used to think that the authorities must be crazy. Don't they see that they are strangling potential industries? Don't they see that surrounding countries are benefitting from their approach? But this didn't sit with the fact, that many Thais in powerful positions are amongst the most educated and worldly sophisticated people.

It then occurred to me, that perhaps the local oligarchy don't really want these emerging business hubs. They pretend they do, but they don't. Perhaps the development of a mobile, financially independent and educated emerging class of foreigners and locals are not in their interests. Perhaps they reckon they are more secure, if the vast majority of locals are dependant upon benevolence, rural activity and the lowly paid service sector. Certainly massage and related services seem to operate without hindrance.

If one looks at the distribution of wealth and the control of economic activity, it would appear closer to a feudal system than an emerging and competitive economy. And that is how certain sectors of Thai society may wish to keep it.

[TheKnave]

now all they have to do is compel all the other immigration offices (and officers) to fairly apply the same rules, and 90% of the complaints will go away. note that I said 'compel'.

[Handsomeman81]

After the recent surrogate parent issues the Immigration Office now requires that if the parents of a foreign child born in Thailand wish to take the child out of the country they must have a passport from their home country (obtained in Thailand) and the child must travel with the parents and the parents must show both the birth certificate and passport.

Hey Guys,

Reading the above has got me a little bit nervous, I am about to visit the UK with my son and fly in 10 days time, he has a UK passport,

However it says the child must be travelling with parents, he will be travelling with just me, so he will be just travelling with 1 parent, not parents,

Also whos birth certificate am I to show? I am not clear if it means I must show the childs birth certificate or I must show mine?

Are these rules only applying to Chaing Mai residents?

Any clarification would be appreciated, thanks in advance for your time,

[JSixpack]

Much of this is relevant to Chiang Mai, but you can read the underlying police orders (both original Thai and English translations) applicable nationally here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/749918-thai-immigration-issues-new-police-order-3272557-effective-august-29-2014/

So you think the guy is incorrect or Chiang Mai aren't going to subscribe to this?

Sorry for any misunderstanding. What the Chiang Mai chief said appears (as far as the news report goes) to be consistent with the police orders. I meant that the colonel also spoke to some matters relevant only to Chiang Mai, such as the plan for a new building and added staff both of which are really being overcome by the influx of new tourists, and especailly, new retirees.

Impossible. Everybody on the forum knows that tourism is dead and all retirees are going to Cambodia, Philippines, and Vietnam.

If anyone who is considering retiring here happens to read this, if you are of a nervous nature, then you might want to look elsewhere for paradise! It might not be so good here for your blood pressure!

Why?

[Johnsy]

Good to see some of the various National and Thai officials are trying to clarify the visa shambles. However, what is current today may or may not be current tomorrow or some rules and regs will end up with an individualistic spin or interpretation according to each immigration office or front desk official. This causes confusion, uncertainty and disruption to almost every foreigner trying to make a go of things here in Thailand. The end result being that many foreigners are looking at other options in other countries or have already left to enjoy a more welcoming, established and streamlined approach to foreign work, business and retirement.

[SOTIRIOS]

...how about something in writing......

...so many foreigners' lives are in limbo with constant changes to already nebulous laws.....

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Over the years I have seen several emerging industries that are initially encouraged and then crushed with bureaucracy.

The jewellery industry, arose and now its in its death rattles.

The film industry really got going but for the last five or more years is stagnating.

The IT business was a late bloomer, but the country attracted a bit of talent and few things started to happen. But its the usual story, a diminishing pool of talent and regulations that seem to "kick in", just when your making some headway. It's not a controversial statement to say that its just an uncompetitive place for the development of these kind of business's.

I've operated companies all over the world. The due diligence and effort required to keep a Thai company legal are horrendous and serve to discourage traders. There are exceptions, but its one of the last places, one would want to incorporate, from a competitive standpoint.

At first I used to think that the authorities must be crazy. Don't they see that they are strangling potential industries? Don't they see that surrounding countries are benefitting from their approach? But this didn't sit with the fact, that many Thais in powerful positions are amongst the most educated and worldly sophisticated people.

It then occurred to me, that perhaps the local oligarchy don't really want these emerging business hubs. They pretend they do, but they don't. Perhaps the development of a mobile, financially independent and educated emerging class of foreigners and locals are not in their interests. Perhaps they reckon they are more secure, if the vast majority of locals are dependant upon benevolence, rural activity and the lowly paid service sector. Certainly massage and related services seem to operate without hindrance.

If one looks at the distribution of wealth and the control of economic activity, it would appear closer to a feudal system than an emerging and competitive economy. And that is how certain sectors of Thai society may wish to keep it.

You are correct. The elite want to keep things just the way they are. No education for the poor and all income streams channelled back to the wealthy. The clearance of all the beach businesses in Phuket recently is a relevant example. It was sold as a crackdown, but in reality the Bangkok elite have long been displeased with Phuket because the money made there was not channelled back to Bangkok. That has been rectified. Phuket is now controlled by Bangkok. And the workaday Thais who were making a few dollars from Tourists on the island have had their humble businesses ripped down with a backhoe.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Bulldozer Dawn

[lickard]

Does anybody know if 29th August is still the deadline for fixing overstay issues without the risk of a ban, or has this still not been confirmed?

[Sena Dave]

Was there really such a rush to get these changes in place that they had to start some half arsed measures in May this year. Why didn't they just wait until they knew what they were doing and why they wanted to do it instead of meaningless sound bites every 2 weeks adding to the confusion of Tourists ,expats and themselves it seems

[Thailand]

No doubt we will see a rush of elderly "professional" athletes when some bright spark sets up a company to arrange visas for them.

Cheaper than the "retirement" visa with a minimum of 40K per month.

[antsrule]

I have surgery scheduled forsept 19. Got the document from a government hospital and was refused at Chang Wattana because it is elective surgery. It is an incarcerated hernia which requires immediate attention. So now I am on a grueling 15 hour bus trip to get a tourist visa.

I am a science teacher but cannot renew my non-b until my surgery is over and I can start teaching again. I am a qualified and experienced teacher (including 3 years at international and government schools in Thailand). I will be leaving Thailand at my earliest inconvenience.

[Oziex1]

Did the man on the far left play for the Lakers? How tall is that guy?

Not very tall, he's just standing with short people.

[biplanebluey]

Did the man on the far left play for the Lakers? How tall is that guy?

Look up immigration statistics on Google

[flippa]

Over the years I have seen several emerging industries that are initially encouraged and then crushed with bureaucracy.

The jewellery industry, arose and now its in its death rattles.

The film industry really got going but for the last five or more years is stagnating.

The IT business was a late bloomer, but the country attracted a bit of talent and few things started to happen. But its the usual story, a diminishing pool of talent and regulations that seem to "kick in", just when your making some headway. It's not a controversial statement to say that its just an uncompetitive place for the development of these kind of business's.

I've operated companies all over the world. The due diligence and effort required to keep a Thai company legal are horrendous and serve to discourage traders. There are exceptions, but its one of the last places, one would want to incorporate, from a competitive standpoint.

At first I used to think that the authorities must be crazy. Don't they see that they are strangling potential industries? Don't they see that surrounding countries are benefitting from their approach? But this didn't sit with the fact, that many Thais in powerful positions are amongst the most educated and worldly sophisticated people.

It then occurred to me, that perhaps the local oligarchy don't really want these emerging business hubs. They pretend they do, but they don't. Perhaps the development of a mobile, financially independent and educated emerging class of foreigners and locals are not in their interests. Perhaps they reckon they are more secure, if the vast majority of locals are dependant upon benevolence, rural activity and the lowly paid service sector. Certainly massage and related services seem to operate without hindrance.

If one looks at the distribution of wealth and the control of economic activity, it would appear closer to a feudal system than an emerging and competitive economy. And that is how certain sectors of Thai society may wish to keep it.

You are correct. The elite want to keep things just the way they are. No education for the poor and all income streams channelled back to the wealthy. The clearance of all the beach businesses in Phuket recently is a relevant example. It was sold as a crackdown, but in reality the Bangkok elite have long been displeased with Phuket because the money made there was not channelled back to Bangkok. That has been rectified. Phuket is now controlled by Bangkok. And the workaday Thais who were making a few dollars from Tourists on the island have had their humble businesses ripped down with a backhoe.

Pretty sad if you ask me. Whenever I see images of Thai officials with diplomats or representatives from other countries, you have to wonder to what extent they are influencing final policy. My guess is that it's a lot. It's happening everywhere, not just in Thailand.

[moe666]

...how about something in writing......

...so many foreigners' lives are in limbo with constant changes to already nebulous laws.....

Constant changes what changes, only the last month or so. People need something to worry about

[BestBitterPhuket]

Over the years I have seen several emerging industries that are initially encouraged and then crushed with bureaucracy.

The jewellery industry, arose and now its in its death rattles.

The film industry really got going but for the last five or more years is stagnating.

The IT business was a late bloomer, but the country attracted a bit of talent and few things started to happen. But its the usual story, a diminishing pool of talent and regulations that seem to "kick in", just when your making some headway. It's not a controversial statement to say that its just an uncompetitive place for the development of these kind of business's.

I've operated companies all over the world. The due diligence and effort required to keep a Thai company legal are horrendous and serve to discourage traders. There are exceptions, but its one of the last places, one would want to incorporate, from a competitive standpoint.

At first I used to think that the authorities must be crazy. Don't they see that they are strangling potential industries? Don't they see that surrounding countries are benefitting from their approach? But this didn't sit with the fact, that many Thais in powerful positions are amongst the most educated and worldly sophisticated people.

It then occurred to me, that perhaps the local oligarchy don't really want these emerging business hubs. They pretend they do, but they don't. Perhaps the development of a mobile, financially independent and educated emerging class of foreigners and locals are not in their interests. Perhaps they reckon they are more secure, if the vast majority of locals are dependant upon benevolence, rural activity and the lowly paid service sector. Certainly massage and related services seem to operate without hindrance.

If one looks at the distribution of wealth and the control of economic activity, it would appear closer to a feudal system than an emerging and competitive economy. And that is how certain sectors of Thai society may wish to keep it.

Spot on! The people in power has for decades had the chance to make significant changes, but they are unwilling to change as almost every policy in Thailand benefits the upper elite, but not the country as a whole. Will anything change with AEC? Probably not Thailand would probably leave than make changes to the elites privileges. I hope I am wrong, but this has been going on for decades.