Farma Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Wages for staff in a regional Issan city Permanent cleaning staff 10 hours per day 6 days a week. 200 Baht per day Cleaning staff casual 250 Baht per day Shop assistants 10 hours per day 6 days a week. Starting at 7,500 per month with yearly increments. Shop manager 12 hours per day 5 days a week. Starting at 14,000 per month with yearly increments Govt staff with degrees. 20 - 50,000 Baht per month depending on grade and years of service. (50,000 is for senior management levels grade 9) In addition most of the degree holding medical professionals I know also have private clinics which they operate out of working hours bringing in considerably higher amounts than govt wages. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zierf1 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Here in the US the basic wage is equivalent to 42,000 baht a month. So it has got to be much lower in Thailand. My wife tells me 7,000 baht is the normal basic wage. 20,000 is a very good wage, equivalent to $22 an hour in the US. I get paid $10 an hour here. $22 an hour is a very high wage in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zierf1 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 "Sure but if you live " Thai Style " with sun! It is very cheap! But the moment you live a " farang style " in Thailand eating farang food and alcohol ( which is very expensive! ) then its going to get ridiculously expensive! Keep everything "Thai Style" and 9,000 baht a month wage is perfect!" Canary is 100% a newb here. I doubt that he has lived in the country for more than 3 months. I don't think that he knows what Thai Style is. I think that he means poor. In my neighborhood where houses are an average of 1.5-3 million baht, I doubt that anyone is earning only 9,000 baht a month an claiming a good life. Most of my neighbors earn around what the OP mentioned some more some less. Since both were working though they have a good middle class lifestyle. 2 salaries at 20k a month is pretty good. When people claim how much they spend a month, they are usually full of crap. Canary: here is a dare. Take 9kx12 (108,000 baht) put it in a bank account. Do not access any money at all, do not borrow, use a credit card or take gifts. See if you can actually live a year on that. I seriously doubt it. When making a budget, you cannot just count basic costs. I also seriously doubt that you are finding many 20 baht a meal places anymore. In CM where I live most places that were 25 baht a meal are now 35 my 35 baht a meal shops are now 50. OP, I wonder how your GF would react to your comments. Perhaps, you are thinking about pimping out your GF or are you just showing your disrespect for all women in this country. I also doubt that you math is even close. "Working gGrls" are not living the good life saving millions of baht a year. 1.5-3 mil baht houses are not normal. Rich and middle class exist in every country but that does not mean everyone lives like that. And living Thai style is possible for a farang. I lived the same in Thailand for 4 years. 30 baht meals. Walked everywhere. Never need air conditioning. I never felt deprived. Thais wouldn't either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Sure but if you live " Thai Style " with sun! It is very cheap! But the moment you live a " farang style " in Thailand eating farang food and alcohol ( which is very expensive! ) then its going to get ridiculously expensive! Keep everything "Thai Style" and 9,000 baht a month wage is perfect! . so your suggesting all the Thai's who run cars, pay for their kids schooling, medical insurance, mobile phone bills, water/ electricity, internet, putting savings's away are all ,living on 9k/m and no farang food or booze in sight, and must be living "farang syle".... 9k/m just about gets you a hand to mouth existance at best. Doesn't cover my family's medical insurance Edited August 29, 2014 by samran 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kekalot Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 "Sure but if you live " Thai Style " with sun! It is very cheap! But the moment you live a " farang style " in Thailand eating farang food and alcohol ( which is very expensive! ) then its going to get ridiculously expensive! Keep everything "Thai Style" and 9,000 baht a month wage is perfect!" Canary is 100% a newb here. I doubt that he has lived in the country for more than 3 months. I don't think that he knows what Thai Style is. I think that he means poor. In my neighborhood where houses are an average of 1.5-3 million baht, I doubt that anyone is earning only 9,000 baht a month an claiming a good life. Most of my neighbors earn around what the OP mentioned some more some less. Since both were working though they have a good middle class lifestyle. 2 salaries at 20k a month is pretty good. When people claim how much they spend a month, they are usually full of crap. Canary: here is a dare. Take 9kx12 (108,000 baht) put it in a bank account. Do not access any money at all, do not borrow, use a credit card or take gifts. See if you can actually live a year on that. I seriously doubt it. When making a budget, you cannot just count basic costs. I also seriously doubt that you are finding many 20 baht a meal places anymore. In CM where I live most places that were 25 baht a meal are now 35 my 35 baht a meal shops are now 50. OP, I wonder how your GF would react to your comments. Perhaps, you are thinking about pimping out your GF or are you just showing your disrespect for all women in this country. I also doubt that you math is even close. "Working gGrls" are not living the good life saving millions of baht a year. I live on less than 108,000 baht a year! I have lived in Thailand a few years and have also spent on a lot of time in Chiang Mai too! I never spend anywhere near 9,000 baht a month! My rent is 2000 baht a month inc WIFI and Sat TV. I do not drink or smoke and never go to bars ( i did all that years ago! ) I am 50 years old,single,i do not have a Girlfriend ( i am not interested ) i have no kids and i am not materialistic either! I walk everywhere ( out of choice ) i am outside for most of the day.I spend most afternoons on the beach,swimming and walking! I eat thai food from the market 20 Baht ( some 30 baht ) meals and fresh fruit every day and drink several Litres of water a day. My rent is 2000 baht a month,my electric/water is 600 baht a month.Mobile phone 150 baht a month.100 baht a day more than covers my food etc! oh and a haircut every month at 80 baht.I travel everywhere by train ( because i love it!!!! ) and bicycle .You can work it out for yourself i don't spend anywhere near 9,000 baht a month! But it should be noted that i don't live a " rock n' roll " lifestyle ( lol ) i am just a " simple guy " enjoying a " simple life " in a country that i love! F.J you and me both then, except I'm 19 years younger and do it from Cha-am 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Soutpeel Posted August 29, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 29, 2014 Sure but if you live " Thai Style " with sun! It is very cheap! But the moment you live a " farang style " in Thailand eating farang food and alcohol ( which is very expensive! ) then its going to get ridiculously expensive! Keep everything "Thai Style" and 9,000 baht a month wage is perfect! . so your suggesting all the Thai's who run cars, pay for their kids schooling, medical insurance, mobile phone bills, water/ electricity, internet, putting savings's away are all ,living on 9k/m and no farang food or booze in sight, and must be living "farang syle".... 9k/m just about gets you a hand to mouth existance at best. Doesn't cover my family's medical insurance Samran, you really must stop living the extravagant "farang" lifestyle your living and start living "Thai style" as Canarysun demands, live on 9k/m, its easy, its perfect, its cheap...... why do you need to spend 9k/m on family medical insurance for the family for ?....its all "free" in Thailand, its only THB 30 you must drink less and stop eating farang food as well, get rid of your car as well and walk. You really must take the advice of "Canarysun" who has his finger on the pulse of all things Thai, you never know, if you do listen to him, one day too you may get your Thainess and be able to live "Thai style" just like the all knowing "Canarysun"... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Soutpeel Posted August 29, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 29, 2014 "Sure but if you live " Thai Style " with sun! It is very cheap! But the moment you live a " farang style " in Thailand eating farang food and alcohol ( which is very expensive! ) then its going to get ridiculously expensive! Keep everything "Thai Style" and 9,000 baht a month wage is perfect!" Canary is 100% a newb here. I doubt that he has lived in the country for more than 3 months. I don't think that he knows what Thai Style is. I think that he means poor. In my neighborhood where houses are an average of 1.5-3 million baht, I doubt that anyone is earning only 9,000 baht a month an claiming a good life. Most of my neighbors earn around what the OP mentioned some more some less. Since both were working though they have a good middle class lifestyle. 2 salaries at 20k a month is pretty good. When people claim how much they spend a month, they are usually full of crap. Canary: here is a dare. Take 9kx12 (108,000 baht) put it in a bank account. Do not access any money at all, do not borrow, use a credit card or take gifts. See if you can actually live a year on that. I seriously doubt it. When making a budget, you cannot just count basic costs. I also seriously doubt that you are finding many 20 baht a meal places anymore. In CM where I live most places that were 25 baht a meal are now 35 my 35 baht a meal shops are now 50. OP, I wonder how your GF would react to your comments. Perhaps, you are thinking about pimping out your GF or are you just showing your disrespect for all women in this country. I also doubt that you math is even close. "Working gGrls" are not living the good life saving millions of baht a year. I live on less than 108,000 baht a year! I have lived in Thailand a few years and have also spent on a lot of time in Chiang Mai too! I never spend anywhere near 9,000 baht a month! My rent is 2000 baht a month inc WIFI and Sat TV. I do not drink or smoke and never go to bars ( i did all that years ago! ) I am 50 years old,single,i do not have a Girlfriend ( i am not interested ) i have no kids and i am not materialistic either! I walk everywhere ( out of choice ) i am outside for most of the day.I spend most afternoons on the beach,swimming and walking! I eat thai food from the market 20 Baht ( some 30 baht ) meals and fresh fruit every day and drink several Litres of water a day. My rent is 2000 baht a month,my electric/water is 600 baht a month.Mobile phone 150 baht a month.100 baht a day more than covers my food etc! oh and a haircut every month at 80 baht.I travel everywhere by train ( because i love it!!!! ) and bicycle .You can work it out for yourself i don't spend anywhere near 9,000 baht a month! But it should be noted that i don't live a " rock n' roll " lifestyle ( lol ) i am just a " simple guy " enjoying a " simple life " in a country that i love! F.J you and me both then, except I'm 19 years younger and do it from Cha-am maybe you should consider moving in together and you can save even more money, share your Y-fronts, toothbrush, clothese, flip flops etc.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Sure but if you live " Thai Style " with sun! It is very cheap! But the moment you live a " farang style " in Thailand eating farang food and alcohol ( which is very expensive! ) then its going to get ridiculously expensive! Keep everything "Thai Style" and 9,000 baht a month wage is perfect! . so your suggesting all the Thai's who run cars, pay for their kids schooling, medical insurance, mobile phone bills, water/ electricity, internet, putting savings's away are all ,living on 9k/m and no farang food or booze in sight, and must be living "farang syle".... 9k/m just about gets you a hand to mouth existance at best. Doesn't cover my family's medical insurance Samran, you really must stop living the extravagant "farang" lifestyle your living and start living "Thai style" as Canarysun demands, live on 9k/m, its easy, its perfect, its cheap...... why do you need to spend 9k/m on family medical insurance for the family for ?....its all "free" in Thailand, its only THB 30 you must drink less and stop eating farang food as well, get rid of your car as well and walk. You really must take the advice of "Canarysun" who has his finger on the pulse of all things Thai, you never know, if you do listen to him, one day too you may get your Thainess and be able to live "Thai style" just like the all knowing "Canarysun"... I am reading this in the back of a tuk tuk. Does that count? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Sure but if you live " Thai Style " with sun! It is very cheap! But the moment you live a " farang style " in Thailand eating farang food and alcohol ( which is very expensive! ) then its going to get ridiculously expensive! Keep everything "Thai Style" and 9,000 baht a month wage is perfect! . so your suggesting all the Thai's who run cars, pay for their kids schooling, medical insurance, mobile phone bills, water/ electricity, internet, putting savings's away are all ,living on 9k/m and no farang food or booze in sight, and must be living "farang syle".... 9k/m just about gets you a hand to mouth existance at best. Doesn't cover my family's medical insurance Samran, you really must stop living the extravagant "farang" lifestyle your living and start living "Thai style" as Canarysun demands, live on 9k/m, its easy, its perfect, its cheap...... why do you need to spend 9k/m on family medical insurance for the family for ?....its all "free" in Thailand, its only THB 30 you must drink less and stop eating farang food as well, get rid of your car as well and walk. You really must take the advice of "Canarysun" who has his finger on the pulse of all things Thai, you never know, if you do listen to him, one day too you may get your Thainess and be able to live "Thai style" just like the all knowing "Canarysun"... I am reading this in the back of a tuk tuk. Does that count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKKdreaming Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Here in the US the basic wage is equivalent to 42,000 baht a month. So it has got to be much lower in Thailand. My wife tells me 7,000 baht is the normal basic wage. 20,000 is a very good wage, equivalent to $22 an hour in the US. I get paid $10 an hour here. $22 an hour is a very high wage in the US. How do you come up with $22 an hour ???? that is 660 baht an hour , over 5000 baht a day sign me up ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canarysun Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 "Sure but if you live " Thai Style " with sun! It is very cheap! But the moment you live a " farang style " in Thailand eating farang food and alcohol ( which is very expensive! ) then its going to get ridiculously expensive! Keep everything "Thai Style" and 9,000 baht a month wage is perfect!" Canary is 100% a newb here. I doubt that he has lived in the country for more than 3 months. I don't think that he knows what Thai Style is. I think that he means poor. In my neighborhood where houses are an average of 1.5-3 million baht, I doubt that anyone is earning only 9,000 baht a month an claiming a good life. Most of my neighbors earn around what the OP mentioned some more some less. Since both were working though they have a good middle class lifestyle. 2 salaries at 20k a month is pretty good. When people claim how much they spend a month, they are usually full of crap. Canary: here is a dare. Take 9kx12 (108,000 baht) put it in a bank account. Do not access any money at all, do not borrow, use a credit card or take gifts. See if you can actually live a year on that. I seriously doubt it. When making a budget, you cannot just count basic costs. I also seriously doubt that you are finding many 20 baht a meal places anymore. In CM where I live most places that were 25 baht a meal are now 35 my 35 baht a meal shops are now 50. OP, I wonder how your GF would react to your comments. Perhaps, you are thinking about pimping out your GF or are you just showing your disrespect for all women in this country. I also doubt that you math is even close. "Working gGrls" are not living the good life saving millions of baht a year. I live on less than 108,000 baht a year! I have lived in Thailand a few years and have also spent on a lot of time in Chiang Mai too! I never spend anywhere near 9,000 baht a month! My rent is 2000 baht a month inc WIFI and Sat TV. I do not drink or smoke and never go to bars ( i did all that years ago! ) I am 50 years old,single,i do not have a Girlfriend ( i am not interested ) i have no kids and i am not materialistic either! I walk everywhere ( out of choice ) i am outside for most of the day.I spend most afternoons on the beach,swimming and walking! I eat thai food from the market 20 Baht ( some 30 baht ) meals and fresh fruit every day and drink several Litres of water a day. My rent is 2000 baht a month,my electric/water is 600 baht a month.Mobile phone 150 baht a month.100 baht a day more than covers my food etc! oh and a haircut every month at 80 baht.I travel everywhere by train ( because i love it!!!! ) and bicycle .You can work it out for yourself i don't spend anywhere near 9,000 baht a month! But it should be noted that i don't live a " rock n' roll " lifestyle ( lol ) i am just a " simple guy " enjoying a " simple life " in a country that i love! F.J you and me both then, except I'm 19 years younger and do it from Cha-am maybe you should consider moving in together and you can save even more money, share your Y-fronts, toothbrush, clothese, flip flops etc.... kind words ( although it should be noted that I don't wear " Y fronts " or any type of underwear.They cause me to come out in the most " hideous rash " viewers...... ) perhaps you could all just sit back and admire my honesty .. Greetings to you all! F.J x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Of course, not wearing underwear saves on underwear costs, medical bills from chafing and of important, laundrette bills. (I assume you have more than one set of clothes?). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgs2001uk Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 In answer to post #68. I am reading this in the back of a tuk tuk. Does that count? No, much to frivolous, tuk tuks are for dumb farang tourists, you should be riding the big red #60 bus for free like the rest of us. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeichen Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I don't know why anyone would want to live so poor. I prefer a middle class lifestyle. I think those that say the Thai way are taling about the poor. There are quite a few middle class now. Canary sun. in this thread alone you have posted your rent is 2k baht a month at least 7 times. Do you want a cookie for living in a slum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 No, much to frivolous, tuk tuks are for dumb farang tourists, you should be riding the big red #60 bus for free like the rest of us. wait till JT reads this one... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Do you want a cookie for living in a slum? I am guess that would be classed as extravagant farang food to him, how about a bag of mamma noodles instead ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul944 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 A rent of 2000 baht a month. Now I am feeling ripped off paying more as 2000 baht a day for a garden view on koh Samui in December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 In answer to post #68. I am reading this in the back of a tuk tuk. Does that count? No, much to frivolous, tuk tuks are for dumb farang tourists, you should be riding the big red #60 bus for free like the rest of us. 555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) A rent of 2000 baht a month. Now I am feeling ripped off paying more as 2000 baht a day for a garden view on koh Samui in December. ah but you just look at the garden, one suspects CanarySun lives in a garden and has to go number 2's behind one of the bushes, I bet you have a real flushing toliet and a bum gun and not an empty water bottle cut in half and a bucket of water to wash your bottom... Edited August 29, 2014 by Soutpeel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKKdreaming Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) In answer to post #68. I am reading this in the back of a tuk tuk. Does that count? No, much to frivolous, tuk tuks are for dumb farang tourists, you should be riding the big red #60 bus for free like the rest of us. I take the bus all the time , sometimes I end up on the free one , sometimes the 8 baht open window one or the 14 baht yellow airco bus.....I just take the first one that shows up ! BUT then I do not take Tuk tuks because there is no meter and many crazy drivers , Ohh and yes you do sometimes get the crazy bus driver but you have lots of metal around you if he crashes into anything Edited August 29, 2014 by BKKdreaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 BUT then I do not take Tuk tuks because there is no meter and many crazy drivers , I would be more worried about crazy farang passengers, specifically in Pattaya, some are even members of TV... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
culicine Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I think 20K is pretty good for someone with no degree. My wife came back from Australia with a PhD in 2000, and several years' experience, to be restarted on 14K a month with government. She gets about 50K now with her position money, but quite a few perks, such as trips to Europe every year. A young nurse I know gets 40K a month in her second year, but works long hours and nights too. The mean figure for salary is skewed - there are vast numbers of very low paid employees, with far fewer earning very high salaries. It's better to talk about median salary, rather than the mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canarysun Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Some of our viewers seem to be " living in Cuckoo Cuckoo land " .... Just to remind you all that most of Thailand is a 3rd world country and naturally is very cheap to live! I do get out and about quite often on the super cool " rot fai " ( train ) and here are the general price of rents in some parts of Thailand. Pattaya : 1 small room with bathroom / wifi / Sat tv / etc = 2000 baht a month rent Pattaya : 1 Bedroom small condo with balcony/ wifi / Sat tv /etc = 4000 baht a month rent Pattaya : 1 Bedroom large condo with balcony/ wifi / Sat tv /etc = 5000 baht a month rent ( some with pool ) Pattaya : 1 Bedroom large condo with balcony/ wifi / Sat tv /etc = 6000 baht a month rent ( with pool ) Chiang Mai ( Village ) 2 bedroom house with garden = 2000 baht a month rent ( unfurnished) Chiang Mai (Village ) 1 small room with bathroom = 1000 baht a month rent (unfurnished ) Buriram / Udonthani 2 bedroom " new " houses with garden 5000 baht a month The list goes on and on but these above prices are all accurate and i have seen all of the above properties recently! This is just a simple guide to show " our viewers " the correct rental prices on 1 years contract !! Farang Jaidee x 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Back to the subject of average Thai salary for a moment! An article in the Bangkok paper talking about negative interest rates cites 25% of the population earn less than THB 130K a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Chiang Mai ( Village ) 2 bedroom house with garden = 2000 baht a month rent ( unfurnished) Chiang Mai (Village ) 1 small room with bathroom = 1000 baht a month rent (unfurnished ) And by contrast: Mrs CM's brothers girfriend (native Thai) rents an unfurnished room in CM, no TV, fan only, 2,500, doesn;t include water/electric. And Mrs CM's sister rents a room in Lamphun, same as the above, 2k a month. I don't doubt there are places for rent at the prices you quote, whether or not the average westerner would be prepared to live there is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonman Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Here in the US the basic wage is equivalent to 42,000 baht a month. So it has got to be much lower in Thailand. My wife tells me 7,000 baht is the normal basic wage. 20,000 is a very good wage, equivalent to $22 an hour in the US. I get paid $10 an hour here. $22 an hour is a very high wage in the US. Bt.20,000 per month x 12months = Bt.240,000 per year / by 52 weeks = Bt.4615.38 per week / by 48hrs per week = Bt.96.15 per hour. Bt.96.15 = $3.01 USD per hour. How is Bt.20,000 per month equivalent to $22 an hour in the USA ? Edited August 29, 2014 by Spoonman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZZELL Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) How many times has this been asked? http://www.manpowerthailand.com/know_detail.php?id=171 http://www.kellyservices.co.th/uploadedFiles/Thailand_-_Kelly_Services/4-Resource_Center/White_Papers_and_Reports/Thailand%20Salary%20ebook%202013-14.pdf Interestingly Kelly list the lowest paid job at 10.5k a month. RAZZ Edited August 29, 2014 by RAZZELL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canarysun Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thais can live a reasonable life on 7,000 baht a month! Where I live that seems to be about normal. " fabulous " x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonman Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thais can live a reasonable life on 7,000 baht a month! Where I live that seems to be about normal. " fabulous " x The minimum at my work is about Bt.12,000.... they struggle on this and all on that number are running food/coffee shops/are motosai riders on the side to make ends meet. I should invite you into work to educate them on how to live frugally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canarysun Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thais can live a reasonable life on 7,000 baht a month! Where I live that seems to be about normal. " fabulous " xThe minimum at my work is about Bt.12,000.... they struggle on this and all on that number are running food/coffee shops/are motosai riders on the side to make ends meet.I should invite you into work to educate them on how to live frugally. To be honest I do show a few of the Thais how to live on less money! The problem is that they waste money on motorbikes and motorbike taxis as they will not " walk" anywhere! I think anybody who has to use a motorbike instead of walking 3 km down the road is " bloody lazy "! Thais also don't like the word "save" once they get paid they don't understand how to budget! If I can do it then so can they!!!!!! lol F.J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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