Aliens, are they leaving?,if so why?

[worgeordie]

Aliens,the offical word the Govt. calls us,Farangs ,foreigners,are we

leaving Chiang Mai in numbers,i ask because in my Moo Bahn,of approx.

80 houses,there are 8 houses up for rent that were formally rented by

Farangs,and have moved out in last 2-3 months,just as telling they have

not been rented again,where as in the past they were quickly snapped up,

This been a good location,a short walk from Market,Rimping,Banks,shops etc,

and very popular with Farangs,so it makes me wonder if more are leaving,than

are coming here to retire,work,or whatever.and if they are leaving why?,Thailand

getting too expensive,greener pastures,somewhere else,the Coup,in fact i feel more

secure since the army took over,than the years past feeling that a Civil war,

could kick off at anytime.

Are you thinking of leaving,if so why,friends ,colleagues,have they left,is the

same situation happening in your area of Chiang Mai ?the reason i ask is

because my wife wants to build 2 houses for rent on land she owns,but i don't

think its a good idea,things don't seem right at the moment,has Thailand lost

its allure as a good place to retire?, what are your thoughts, ideas on the situation

at present

regards Worgeordie

[worgeordie]

Did not take long to <deleted> up a serious subject.

regards Worgeordie

[DaamNaam]

Close..

They're not leaving.

It's the "Rapture".

Only infidels like us remain.

That moobaan near Grace Inter School must be dead as a door nail.

[chiang mai]

Lots of possibilities although I agree, over the past few months I've seen an increase in farang owned property come available, possible reasons:

insecurity resulting from the military government

people with visa problems.

others cashing in on the exchange rate.

I'm sure there are lots of other reasons also.

[Oscar2]

i live fairly close to the OP's area and i too, have noticed an increase in vacancies of properties formerly occupied by farangs. most of these properties were occupied by missionaries but not all. on one soi alone i noticed 4 empty houses in the last 2 months or so, some of which had been occupied by missionaries for at least 8 or 9 years.

[chiang mai]

Sorry, the second part of your question:

I agree it would be silly to build house for rent right now, I've never seen so many to choose from, I reckon the market is flooded.

Anecdotally: I live at Floral, only three of the five units on my floor are occupied, one has been empty for two months, the other for five months, both rental/investment properties.

[LivinginKata]

First of the troll posts removed. Any more and they will be removed ASAP.

[Maejo Man]

You only have to look at the real estate websites in Chiangmai to see actually how many houses there are for rent, and increasing daily with loads of new listings. DD Property alone has several thousand listings!

The house opposite me has just vacated too, foreign renters left Thailand after 3 years,

Edited August 28, 2014 by Maejo Man

[T_Dog]

Regarding people leaving, we have several friends heading outbound. Two families for better learning opportunities for their children, one fellow tired of the political situation, and in our case, we will move at some point as I have a work opportunity back in the USA. I have noticed a lot of the younger folks that used to hang out around CMU taking TEFL certification or teaching have left the country, likely due to visa concerns. Coffee shops up in that are rarely have a foreigner there now where you would usually run into them all the time.

[masuk]

i live fairly close to the OP's area and i too, have noticed an increase in vacancies of properties formerly occupied by farangs. most of these properties were occupied by missionaries but not all. on one soi alone i noticed 4 empty houses in the last 2 months or so, some of which had been occupied by missionaries for at least 8 or 9 years.

I recently downsized and moved from a house to a condo and sold heaps of furniture, fans, and so on.

Every purchaser except for one was with one of the churches, all from one country.

So it looks like there has been a big turnover just this past 2 months, and new folk are moving in.

The owner of the condo I'm now in very kindly held it for me for 6 weeks, which I did not expect at all. Maybe it's the 'off' season. From my condo windows, I can see at least 8 new condos finished and available, and a heap more under construction.

[Thakkar]

Hi, Worgeordie

A better way to judge whether there are fewer aliens is the crowd at immigration. By that measure, it doesn't look like the numbers are decreasing at all.

Greater vacancies in older moo bans/condos could be explained by the fact that there are many new moo bans/condos with newer, possibly better, properties for rent, giving renters more choices.

Building an investment property: Only you can decide, but these are the calculations I'd take into account:

- assume a conservative rental amount

- It will be rented out 70% of the time (i.e., 70% occupancy)

- 6 to10% of the rental income will go towards maintenance, insurance, management fees during vacant months, etc.

After considering the above, if the return on the cost of building and fitting the house is greater than 4%, then go ahead. Remember, you can get 3.5 to 5% on government bonds that come up for sale from time to time.

Btw, "Alien" is a normal term used by immigration departments everywhere to refer to non citizens.

T

[shirtless]

Maybe people are fed up with be treated like second class citizens and are moving to countries that want their economic input. Or its becoming to expensive and regulated , and of course all the visa crackdowns and nominee company crackdowns may be forcing people out, Thailand is still a great place but its losing its advantages one step at a time.

[mesquite]

Maybe people are fed up with be treated like second class citizens and are moving to countries that want their economic input. Or its becoming to expensive and regulated , and of course all the visa crackdowns and nominee company crackdowns may be forcing people out, Thailand is still a great place but its losing its advantages one step at a time.

I think this is at least part of the reason.

[Thighlander]

I think you could buy a used house for somewhat less than it cost to build. You may want to consider selling the land, and buying a couple of used homes with the proceeds. A modest house in a great location will rent faster than a new house in the exurbs.....

I've seen quite a few younger couples holding moving sales, with a lot of stuff that is only a few months old. A lot of people thought they would come and teach and stay indefinitely. Apparently they didn't read the billion or so posts on various forums about the difficulties with paperwork, pay, job security, degree requirements, etc..

Does seem to be the slowest August for farangs out of the 7 that I have been here over the years. Noticeable decrease in the number of European summer vacationers.

[Tywais]

Hi, Worgeordie

A better way to judge whether there are fewer aliens is the crowd at immigration. By that measure, it doesn't look like the numbers are decreasing at all.

That could also be due to wanting to get within the law now considering the number of changes occurring in immigration.

[chiang mai]

Maybe people are fed up with be treated like second class citizens and are moving to countries that want their economic input. Or its becoming to expensive and regulated , and of course all the visa crackdowns and nominee company crackdowns may be forcing people out, Thailand is still a great place but its losing its advantages one step at a time.

I think this is at least part of the reason.

Yet again I find myself the odd one out with this thinking, I'm very OK with the way I'm treated here, 90 day reports are a minor hassle (transferred to a visa agent for 1k a year), visa renewal, once a year, I can handle that, that's about it really.

[ovenman]

A better way to judge whether there are fewer aliens is the crowd at immigration. By that measure, it doesn't look like the numbers are decreasing at all.

That could also be due to wanting to get within the law now considering the number of changes occurring in immigration.

Also, people who were doing continual border runs to say, Mae Sai, weren't adding any extra burden to immigrations in Chiang Mai.

[Thighlander]

Maybe people are fed up with be treated like second class citizens and are moving to countries that want their economic input. Or its becoming to expensive and regulated , and of course all the visa crackdowns and nominee company crackdowns may be forcing people out, Thailand is still a great place but its losing its advantages one step at a time.

I think this is at least part of the reason.

Yet again I find myself the odd one out with this thinking, I'm very OK with the way I'm treated here, 90 day reports are a minor hassle (transferred to a visa agent for 1k a year), visa renewal, once a year, I can handle that, that's about it really.

agreed....some can't seem to realize that we are still "visitors."

[Maejo Man]

Hi, Worgeordie

A better way to judge whether there are fewer aliens is the crowd at immigration. By that measure, it doesn't look like the numbers are decreasing at all.

...................................................

T

Immigration has always been busy and will continue to be. The bulk of business there is done by long term residents who are fully documented, with a sprinkling of extension applications. You can always run into somebody you know at immigration,

The real yard stick is to drive around and look at the incredible ammount of houses for rent that have exploded in recent months.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Maejo Man

[northernjohn]

Hi, Worgeordie

A better way to judge whether there are fewer aliens is the crowd at immigration. By that measure, it doesn't look like the numbers are decreasing at all.

That could also be due to wanting to get within the law now considering the number of changes occurring in immigration.

I agree with Thakkart on this. I find it highly amusing to read a thread like this while the same forum runs a thread talking about how many more people are coming into immigration. As of yet there has been no changes in the 90 day reporting yet the line is getting longer. I have not heard it out right but the tone is the yearly extensions are also getting longer line ups.

Maybe people are getting tired of maintenance and going for condo's. It is not like there is a lack of them available.

who really knows. I will stick by the amount odf people at immigration.

[Thakkar]

A better way to judge whether there are fewer aliens is the crowd at immigration. By that measure, it doesn't look like the numbers are decreasing at all.

That could also be due to wanting to get within the law now considering the number of changes occurring in immigration.

Also, people who were doing continual border runs to say, Mae Sai, weren't adding any extra burden to immigrations in Chiang Mai.

I'd forgotten about the visa runners, quite a few of whom would've been long term renters. Noting the crowds at imm would've given no indication of their presence. It's quite possible then that some of the vacancies noted in the OP could be due to the visa crackdown.

It's occurred to me that this dearth of proper data, not only in this instance, but others, makes it harder for businesses to plan, increasing the cost of doing business here.

T

[jonwilly]

I was talking to a long time resident frang and he said he was looking at Malaysia.

He had the idea 'WE' are not welcome.

I too am of the opinion that since the most Bloodless Coup in Thai history and they do have a history on that subject we are living in a non threatening enviroment.

Think Khun T would have had us out but not this present crowd.

john

[stuurman]

I was talking to a long time resident frang and he said he was looking at Malaysia.

john

I live in Penang, Malaysia and planning to move to Chiang Mai next year.

Good to read a lot of rental property is available.

The same applies for where I live now btw, the main reason is that they keep building and building. The amount of money available from Singaporeans, Chinese and people from the Gulf States seems to be endless. The result is that many condo blocks have a very low occupancy, these people buy for investment and don't live here.

Is maybe something like that happening in Chiang Mai as well?

[mesquite]

Maybe people are fed up with be treated like second class citizens and are moving to countries that want their economic input. Or its becoming to expensive and regulated , and of course all the visa crackdowns and nominee company crackdowns may be forcing people out, Thailand is still a great place but its losing its advantages one step at a time.

I think this is at least part of the reason.

Yet again I find myself the odd one out with this thinking, I'm very OK with the way I'm treated here, 90 day reports are a minor hassle (transferred to a visa agent for 1k a year), visa renewal, once a year, I can handle that, that's about it really.

If your only dealing with the Thais is 90 day reporting and visa extension, then no problem. I believe it's the other things that drive people out.

[chiang mai]

Maybe people are fed up with be treated like second class citizens and are moving to countries that want their economic input. Or its becoming to expensive and regulated , and of course all the visa crackdowns and nominee company crackdowns may be forcing people out, Thailand is still a great place but its losing its advantages one step at a time.

I think this is at least part of the reason.

Yet again I find myself the odd one out with this thinking, I'm very OK with the way I'm treated here, 90 day reports are a minor hassle (transferred to a visa agent for 1k a year), visa renewal, once a year, I can handle that, that's about it really.

If your only dealing with the Thais is 90 day reporting and visa extension, then no problem. I believe it's the other things that drive people out.

Tell me, what makes you concerned and made you write what you did, why/how do we differ, I would like to understand?

[Sparkles]

Maybe people are fed up with be treated like second class citizens and are moving to countries that want their economic input. Or its becoming to expensive and regulated , and of course all the visa crackdowns and nominee company crackdowns may be forcing people out, Thailand is still a great place but its losing its advantages one step at a time.

I think this is at least part of the reason.

Well I don't feel like I am being treated like a second class citizen and never have,please give us some examples.

The so called Immigration crack down hasn't affected anyone on a legit retirement/ marriage visa or work permit, and that surely would be the majority,life goes on.

Sure there has been some inflation in living expenses ,find me a country that doesn't have inflation.

The surge in building of new houses and condos would obviously give people more choice for purchase and rental, and create more vacancies, but judging by the marked increase of people at Immigration I doubt whether many have left CM

[Duvidl]

I think you have to consider that there is also some movement within the country. I know of a couple of farang families near me that simply decided that they preferred living near the beach and moved down south.

[MESmith]

Maybe people are fed up with be treated like second class citizens and are moving to countries that want their economic input. Or its becoming to expensive and regulated , and of course all the visa crackdowns and nominee company crackdowns may be forcing people out, Thailand is still a great place but its losing its advantages one step at a time.

I think this is at least part of the reason.

Well I don't feel like I am being treated like a second class citizen and never have,please give us some examples.

The so called Immigration crack down hasn't affected anyone on a legit retirement/ marriage visa or work permit, and that surely would be the majority,life goes on.

Sure there has been some inflation in living expenses ,find me a country that doesn't have inflation.

The surge in building of new houses and condos would obviously give people more choice for purchase and rental, and create more vacancies, but judging by the marked increase of people at Immigration I doubt whether many have left CM

Until the powers that be, move the goal posts overnight & a lot of folk are up sh*t creek without a paddle. This is an uncertainty that will never go away. We are non-immigrants.....

[Konini]

Sorry, the second part of your question:

I agree it would be silly to build house for rent right now, I've never seen so many to choose from, I reckon the market is flooded.

Anecdotally: I live at Floral, only three of the five units on my floor are occupied, one has been empty for two months, the other for five months, both rental/investment properties.

I agree fully with you on building to rent - we are unashamedly bottom feeders, having a one bed and two bed flat 3 km to Melbourne CBD (but on the unfashionable west side of the river) and an ex council house on a street I could never live on in England, all 3 properties were bought mid to late 1990's when the housing market was very depressed. Main point though is that they are bottom of the market - the flats are rented by new migrants to Australia getting on their feet and getting a record of good tenancy or saving a deposit to buy, house is one of the cheapest rentals in the town (we've had the same tenant since 1996, and she doesn't want to move and will be there until she goes to the big house in the sky). We have never had a period of over 6 weeks with the flats empty, even though the managing agent knows we have no debts and would rather wait until we find a good tenant than taking a risk on someone who may not pay the rent or treat the property well. Having said that, they are purpose built flats in double story blocks, concrete walls, concrete ceilings, concrete floors, pretty much impossible to cause any expensive damage.

The real beauty is that there is a constant demand for these bottom of the market flats, whereas a friend who bought a $400,000 apartment just down the road from ours has over the 8 years she has owned it had periods of up to 7 months with no tenant and one tenant who did $35,000 worth of damage and most of her tenants sign a 12 month lease and then move on, whereas our tenants can't really afford to do that. More rent when she has a tenant for sure, but our 2 flats combined bring in pretty much the same rent when you take off the high outgoings (landlords pay council and water rates and body corporate/building management fees, which are much higher for more expensive properties). I'd recommend anyone thinking about getting into the rental market to seriously consider doing as we have - our investments have shown a much better return than our friends, as more people are realising (usually the hard way) that it's much less riskier to do it our way. Our estate agent who manages the flats tells us a couple of times each year he has buyers if we're thinking about selling, and this is pushing the prices of these ugly little ducklings higher at a better rate than the more expensive ones.

We live at Rimping Condo, and there is virtually nobody here. The owners sold 40% of the units and kept the rest; having spoken to the owner's son it is very apparent that they don't care if their units are rented or not, I believe ours had been empty since the owners daughter moved out a couple of years or more ago. They are sitting back and playing the long game, waiting for the capital gain rather than rent in hand. Most of the units privately owned are owned by foreigners or people from Bangkok who only spend a few days or weeks or months here. Our next door neighbours spend a week a year here (they've just been) and only 2 of the 5 units on our floor (not many units because half of the floor is the pool/gym) are permanently occupied; I'm not complaining, nice and quiet and nobody next door or upstairs overlooking our balcony). Most other floors seem the same with only 2 or 3 people here all the time. I'd imagine there would never be a shortage of Thai's to pay 3,000 or 4,000 for a cheap apartment though. Worth bearing in mind when buying to rent.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

We live at Rimping Condo, and there is virtually nobody here. The owners sold 40% of the units and kept the rest; having spoken to the owner's son it is very apparent that they don't care if their units are rented or not, I believe ours had been empty since the owners daughter moved out a couple of years or more ago. They are sitting back and playing the long game, waiting for the capital gain rather than rent in hand. Most of the units privately owned are owned by foreigners or people from Bangkok who only spend a few days or weeks or months here. Our next door neighbours spend a week a year here (they've just been) and only 2 of the 5 units on our floor (not many units because half of the floor is the pool/gym) are permanently occupied; I'm not complaining, nice and quiet and nobody next door or upstairs overlooking our balcony). Most other floors seem the same with only 2 or 3 people here all the time. I'd imagine there would never be a shortage of Thai's to pay 3,000 or 4,000 for a cheap apartment though. Worth bearing in mind when buying to rent.

I think you will find the owners are selling the foreigner share at inflated prices, and not bothering much with the Thai share.

I doubt they have even fitted out the unsold apts.

A game that's fairly common in CM.