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Aliens, are they leaving?,if so why?


worgeordie

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I chose to move to Chiang Mai (a few days) for two reasons:
- The beautiful surrounding countryside
- The significant presence of farang communities for a more varied life.
If you do not like there is always the possibility of settling in Nakhon Sawan or Phitsanulock. But nobody goes there.
I gather that many of us prefer cities populated by people of various origins.

Add to your two reasons add the almost complete absence of beer-swilling, vulgar bogan-chav-white trash tourist, and the lack of bar girls and lady boys on every other street trying to physically pull punters inside (no objections to prostitution, they are making an honest living; I object to the sex tourists who are in my experience the kind of man I don't want to be in the same country as, let alone town) and you've summed up why we made an almost instant decision to stay in Chiang Mai when we came here a few years ago.

I know some tourists are horrible, I know Loi Kroh Road exists if you know where to go and find it, and I know that many expats - my husband included - enjoys a good night out on the sherbet every night now and again but that's not the same as being in Bangkok, Phuket or Pattaya etc. The day Chiang Mai turns into those places is the day we will leave.

I agree with those who don't want to see locals outnumbered, but that's a process that takes hundreds of years in a small population; I can't see it happening in Thailand in a few thousand years, never mind a few hundred.

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As far as I can tell, we have been right up there with Pattaya and Phuket, as far as foreigners living here, for decades already.

I didn't realise that. Because we are so spread out in city and rural areas perhaps? Or maybe just because we are a better type of expat here giggle.gif

Seriously though, Chiang Mai certainly seems to attract a different kind of expat than other area's of Thailand we've been to, and we have travelled around a fair bit. Not big town people, not beach people, not (so much) pot heads etc. That is purely my opinion and is subject to change (without notice at any time of my choosing).

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I see Chiang Mai was voted 4th out of 7 best places to retire

in the Huffington Post,just hope it encourages a few more

people looking for a place to retire,as have house to let,

the more the better,I am sure other Farang businesses

will be hoping the same.

regards worgeordie

I think there are already too many farangs in Chiang Mai. For the sake of peace and harmony and maintaining a balance, I hope there won't be any increase. Most people in the UK wouldn't say 'the more the better' as regards to immigration and I'm apt to agree. Most communities can handle a certain level of immigration, but once it gets over that level the locals feel uneasy. It's human nature and it should be recognised.

Hi ChiangMaijoe,There are plenty of houses,condos,shopping malls,restaurants and lots of

businesses that would benefit from an increase in Aliens,(i said aliens,to include Asians and

other peoples not just Farangs} retiring here,the majority of aliens in Chiang Mai just get on

with their lives ,don't cause problems for the host country, tourists thats where problems can

occur.

Remember you are one of the "already too many Farangs",what are you going to do about

that ?.

Regards Worgeordie

I have a business that would benefit from more foreigners in Chiang Mai but I don't let that affect my judgement. I agree that plenty of foreigners just get on with their lives and don't necessarily cause any problem, but so long as the foreign population keeps increasing then there will obviously be more people that don't fully understand Thai ways that may be rude or aggressive and create ill feeling amongst the locals. I know farangs that get angry and confrontational over things like driving or being 'ripped off' and so long as the farang population keeps increasing then simple mathematics would show that the frequency of such incidents will increase.

You only need to look on this forum to appreciate how many angry farangs are here already. Their constant complaints about being 'ripped off' and 'scammed' and references to mafias because one person tried to charge more for an item whose price is open to negotiation is laughable, but at the same time damaging. Most of that anger comes from people being too stupid to realise that this is Thailand and it's not the same as back home, and their lack of desire to understand the differences is both alarming and worrisome.

Do I want to see more of that? Absolutely not. The odd moaning, miserable farang will be tolerated, but when we reach the point when more Thais, especially the younger generation, have encounters with these nutters, then it will make it more difficult for us all. As it stands, Thai-farang relations are good, but certainly not as good as it was 25 years ago.

As regards to your poor attempt at irony question "what are you going to do about that?" - Not much, just express an honest opinion, based on my personal experiences and not on my desire for personal gain. Good luck with letting the house.

^^^^^ a very eloquent harangue,take a bow

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I see Chiang Mai was voted 4th out of 7 best places to retire

in the Huffington Post,just hope it encourages a few more

people looking for a place to retire,as have house to let,

the more the better,I am sure other Farang businesses

will be hoping the same.

regards worgeordie

I think there are already too many farangs in Chiang Mai. For the sake of peace and harmony and maintaining a balance, I hope there won't be any increase. Most people in the UK wouldn't say 'the more the better' as regards to immigration and I'm apt to agree. Most communities can handle a certain level of immigration, but once it gets over that level the locals feel uneasy. It's human nature and it should be recognised.

Hi ChiangMaijoe,There are plenty of houses,condos,shopping malls,restaurants and lots of

businesses that would benefit from an increase in Aliens,(i said aliens,to include Asians and

other peoples not just Farangs} retiring here,the majority of aliens in Chiang Mai just get on

with their lives ,don't cause problems for the host country, tourists thats where problems can

occur.

Remember you are one of the "already too many Farangs",what are you going to do about

that ?.

Regards Worgeordie

I have a business that would benefit from more foreigners in Chiang Mai but I don't let that affect my judgement. I agree that plenty of foreigners just get on with their lives and don't necessarily cause any problem, but so long as the foreign population keeps increasing then there will obviously be more people that don't fully understand Thai ways that may be rude or aggressive and create ill feeling amongst the locals. I know farangs that get angry and confrontational over things like driving or being 'ripped off' and so long as the farang population keeps increasing then simple mathematics would show that the frequency of such incidents will increase.

You only need to look on this forum to appreciate how many angry farangs are here already. Their constant complaints about being 'ripped off' and 'scammed' and references to mafias because one person tried to charge more for an item whose price is open to negotiation is laughable, but at the same time damaging. Most of that anger comes from people being too stupid to realise that this is Thailand and it's not the same as back home, and their lack of desire to understand the differences is both alarming and worrisome.

Do I want to see more of that? Absolutely not. The odd moaning, miserable farang will be tolerated, but when we reach the point when more Thais, especially the younger generation, have encounters with these nutters, then it will make it more difficult for us all. As it stands, Thai-farang relations are good, but certainly not as good as it was 25 years ago.

As regards to your poor attempt at irony question "what are you going to do about that?" - Not much, just express an honest opinion, based on my personal experiences and not on my desire for personal gain. Good luck with letting the house.

Just a thought

One other thing I might add to your list is that there are many who have been here for a long time and are getting much older and less tolerable of living conditions here in Chiang Mai. They remember the conditions where they came from many years ago and do not realize that time has moved on there also and in many places the traffic and the pollution has increased there also. Here in Thailand they have no place such as a rest home for them to move to where these conditions are to a degree over come. What was tolerable at 50 is not tolerable at 70+ in many cases.

Agree with you 100% on the attempt by a tuck tuck driver to get more money from them causing them to brand the whole industry as a mafia. They forget that the tuck tuck driver is just the same as them. Trying to get the most money he can for the job he does the same as they did where they came from.

How many of them told their boss that the raise they got was to much. Look at the unions always asking more than is reasonable. It is the same over here. Only they think at their age it should be different.

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Ref: "Just a thought

One other thing I might add to your list is that there are many who have been here for a long time and are getting much older and less tolerable of living conditions here in Chiang Mai. They remember the conditions where they came from many years ago and do not realize that time has moved on there also and in many places the traffic and the pollution has increased there also. Here in Thailand they have no place such as a rest home for them to move to where these conditions are to a degree over come. What was tolerable at 50 is not tolerable at 70+ in many cases.

Agree with you 100% on the attempt by a tuck tuck driver to get more money from them causing them to brand the whole industry as a mafia. They forget that the tuck tuck driver is just the same as them. Trying to get the most money he can for the job he does the same as they did where they came from.

How many of them told their boss that the raise they got was to much. Look at the unions always asking more than is reasonable. It is the same over here. Only they think at their age it should be different."

(Had to snip this: would not allow total copy)

Re: "What was tolerable at 50 is not tolerable at 70+ in many cases."

Tend not to agree with above; for '70 is the new 50' for many!

Edited by tango
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Ref: "Just a thought

One other thing I might add to your list is that there are many who have been here for a long time and are getting much older and less tolerable of living conditions here in Chiang Mai. They remember the conditions where they came from many years ago and do not realize that time has moved on there also and in many places the traffic and the pollution has increased there also. Here in Thailand they have no place such as a rest home for them to move to where these conditions are to a degree over come. What was tolerable at 50 is not tolerable at 70+ in many cases.

Agree with you 100% on the attempt by a tuck tuck driver to get more money from them causing them to brand the whole industry as a mafia. They forget that the tuck tuck driver is just the same as them. Trying to get the most money he can for the job he does the same as they did where they came from.

How many of them told their boss that the raise they got was to much. Look at the unions always asking more than is reasonable. It is the same over here. Only they think at their age it should be different."

(Had to snip this: would not allow total copy)

Re: "What was tolerable at 50 is not tolerable at 70+ in many cases."

Tend not to agree with above; for '70 is the new 50' for many!

You may be rite. I personally think it is more like 60 but the basic idea is the same. I am 72n and feel much different than I did at 50. That is just my experience of course. At 70 I felt much different than I do now. Seems that age comes on faster now for me any how. I still get out and about but not with the ease I did two years ago much less 22 years ago.

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Chiang Mai is the best it's ever been.

More housing choices, better internet, for eating options for foreigners, better transport links, better health care facilities, more reliable electricity and water supplies.

Pollution in March has been going strong since the 1970s (dunno about before that).

Old people always rant about how everything was better in the past.

More a function of their aging worn out bodies, than anything based in reality.

When was the last time you listened to an old person ranting about how better things are today? Anywhere in the world?

Last question is easy.....your post :)

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Chiang Mai is the best it's ever been.

More housing choices, better internet, for eating options for foreigners, better transport links, better health care facilities, more reliable electricity and water supplies.

Pollution in March has been going strong since the 1970s (dunno about before that).

Old people always rant about how everything was better in the past.

More a function of their aging worn out bodies, than anything based in reality.

When was the last time you listened to an old person ranting about how better things are today? Anywhere in the world?

Don't know about the water supply. There is or was just a short while ago complains about it. My water supply is OK can't speak for others.

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I have a foot in both camps on this issue, yes indeed Chiang Mai has got better over the past ten years but I also think we're getting very close to the ceiling when it comes to the numbers of farangs living here. The risk is I think that if the numbers keep rising at the same rate, Chiang Mai will start to loose it's appeal and it might mutate into something undesirable, costs will rise (even further) and attitudes towards farangs will change for the worse, just like in Pattaya and Phuket.

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I have a foot in both camps on this issue, yes indeed Chiang Mai has got better over the past ten years but I also think we're getting very close to the ceiling when it comes to the numbers of farangs living here. The risk is I think that if the numbers keep rising at the same rate, Chiang Mai will start to loose it's appeal and it might mutate into something undesirable, costs will rise (even further) and attitudes towards farangs will change for the worse, just like in Pattaya and Phuket.

I couldn't agree more. The other dynamic is the influx of Chinese tourists. Yes, they are short-term visitors but are here in such numbers and are already creating uneasy feelings with the locals.

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Its most likely the Chinese tourist that causes more problems for the locals,

they are quite aggressive in their manners,and demanding, too fast paced

for the Thais.

I believe there is room for more Farangs in Chiang Mai,i would say the majority

here now ,have families,retired or have businesses here,and why would they

want to cause problems for the Thais they live amongst,(they are exceptions)

I don't think it would get to a level where Thais feel threatened,the world is a

global village,look how many Thais live in LA ,London,its a two way moment

of peoples.

regards Worgeordie

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I have a foot in both camps on this issue, yes indeed Chiang Mai has got better over the past ten years but I also think we're getting very close to the ceiling when it comes to the numbers of farangs living here. The risk is I think that if the numbers keep rising at the same rate, Chiang Mai will start to loose it's appeal and it might mutate into something undesirable, costs will rise (even further) and attitudes towards farangs will change for the worse, just like in Pattaya and Phuket.

I couldn't agree more. The other dynamic is the influx of Chinese tourists. Yes, they are short-term visitors but are here in such numbers and are already creating uneasy feelings with the locals.

The more Chinese, the better.

Those girls have great legs and slim little bodies.

I see zero foreigners in MaeJo most days, just get out of the foreigner ghettos if you don't want to see foreigners.

In the Wed. market at MaeJo Uni main gate last night ZERO foreigners.

In the Monday market at MaeJo Uni side gate two days ago, ZERO foreigners.

8 years ago it was VERY rare to see a foreigner in Mae Jo. Over a 2-3 day period of time you might see 3 or 4. Now, they are all over Mae Jo. But, many are older and retired and and stay inside in their air conditioned homes so you may not notice them. Haven't noticed many missionaries there either.

Yes, true it is rare to see foreigners at those markets you mention. We used to go maybe twice a month and I was often the only foreigner but it really is a terrible market aimed at the students with cheap clothes and junk foods.

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I have a foot in both camps on this issue, yes indeed Chiang Mai has got better over the past ten years but I also think we're getting very close to the ceiling when it comes to the numbers of farangs living here. The risk is I think that if the numbers keep rising at the same rate, Chiang Mai will start to loose it's appeal and it might mutate into something undesirable, costs will rise (even further) and attitudes towards farangs will change for the worse, just like in Pattaya and Phuket.

I couldn't agree more. The other dynamic is the influx of Chinese tourists. Yes, they are short-term visitors but are here in such numbers and are already creating uneasy feelings with the locals.

The more Chinese, the better.

Those girls have great legs and slim little bodies.

I see zero foreigners in MaeJo most days, just get out of the foreigner ghettos if you don't want to see foreigners.

In the Wed. market at MaeJo Uni main gate last night ZERO foreigners.

In the Monday market at MaeJo Uni side gate two days ago, ZERO foreigners.

8 years ago it was VERY rare to see a foreigner in Mae Jo. Over a 2-3 day period of time you might see 3 or 4. Now, they are all over Mae Jo. But, many are older and retired and and stay inside in their air conditioned homes so you may not notice them. Haven't noticed many missionaries there either.

Yes, true it is rare to see foreigners at those markets you mention. We used to go maybe twice a month and I was often the only foreigner but it really is a terrible market aimed at the students with cheap clothes and junk foods.

I must admit that I find it totally amazing that anybody at any age would possibly come to live in Thailand and stay indoors all day in the air con???? Thailand offers a fabulous "outdoor lifestyle" I cannot believe any farang would lock themselves indoors all day!? Why choose a lovely warm country and stay indoors? If you are going to do that then it's surely better moving to Europe!

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Its most likely the Chinese tourist that causes more problems for the locals,

they are quite aggressive in their manners,and demanding, too fast paced

for the Thais.

I believe there is room for more Farangs in Chiang Mai,i would say the majority

here now ,have families,retired or have businesses here,and why would they

want to cause problems for the Thais they live amongst,(they are exceptions)

I don't think it would get to a level where Thais feel threatened,the world is a

global village,look how many Thais live in LA ,London,its a two way moment

of peoples.

regards Worgeordie

Not sure there is as many farongs here as we tend to think. Go to Central Festival the largest shopping Mall in the area. Notice how most all of the signage is geared to Thai's.

Not sure what that has to do with Aliens leaving Chiang Mai but then again I am not sure what Chinese tourist have to do with it either. Maybe a bigot against the Chinese would leave because of it.wai.gif

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Yes, true it is rare to see foreigners at those markets you mention. We used to go maybe twice a month and I was often the only foreigner but it really is a terrible market aimed at the students with cheap clothes and junk foods.

I must admit that I find it totally amazing that anybody at any age would possibly come to live in Thailand and stay indoors all day in the air con???? Thailand offers a fabulous "outdoor lifestyle" I cannot believe any farang would lock themselves indoors all day!? Why choose a lovely warm country and stay indoors? If you are going to do that then it's surely better moving to Europe!

In the evenings the temperature is perfect, at the student markets the eye candy is amazing.

And it costs nothing to walk around.

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There are plenty of places in the world where immigration has resulted in the locals being outnumbered and very often the locals don't like it.

Malaysia - very simplified version - in a 1971 New Economic Policy designed to drastically increase the wealth of native Malya from about 2% of the entire county's wealth (and then in turn to boost the number of native Malays, who were rapidly becoming outnumbered by ethnic Chinese and Indians) provided some outrageous open discrimination which they called 'affirmative action'. By discrimination I'm talking preferential places at universities for those studying and at all government agencies for those in employment, many places where by law, only native Malays can be employed (including the new KL low cost carrier airport) , an allocation by law of 30% of all new housing projects have to be sold to Malays and must by law be sold at a 7% discount of the price of the lowest offered to ethnic Chinese and Indians, and this is all properties from the simplest apartment to multi-million dollar penthouses or mini-mansions in the suburbs. These properties can subsequently only be re-sold to native Malays and I heard (but didn'tthat the pay part if not all of the loan repayments. That's just residential; commercial properties must have a discount of 10%, and the states can fiddle with the quota's, with some states having a minimum of 70% residential and 40% commercial allotments and discounts range between 5% and 15%. Oh, and when native Malays hit the magical number of having 5 children, they get a monthly allowance for having a large family, so they have large families while ethnic Chinese and Indians tend to have 2 or 3 children at most.

Many will not believe me or think I'm exaggerating; I'm not, and the facts and figures are easily checked out. I love Malaysia, would love to live there, but until BN, the coalition party who have been in power since independence from England 57 years ago are removed and the system of discrimination which is in my opinion apartheid by any other name, there's no chance of me going there to live.

This is only 2 relatively recent examples of what can happen when the locals are, or think they are heading towards, being outnumbered.

I live in Malaysia and most of the above is true however I don't think there are much native Malays, many of the so called native Malays originate from Northern Sumatra and are immigrants as well, same as the Chinese and Indians. Apart from that here in Penang a lot of the Chinese have been here for many generations but the still are treated as new comers who "should go back to their own country" according to the right wing Malay politicians.

After living here for 5 years I have come to the conclusion that Malaysia is one of the most racist countries on the planet, even the political parties are based on race.

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Its most likely the Chinese tourist that causes more problems for the locals,

they are quite aggressive in their manners,and demanding, too fast paced

for the Thais.

We had our first guests from China this week. Absolutely lovely people; young, cute and perfect English. Previous guests were Western backpacker types... considerably less tidy.

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The younger ones do appear to a touch more 'worldly' than their elders. A friend of ours with a small 80-100 baht a meal restaurant doesn't want Chinese as customers. She says they are rude, inconsiderate to other customers, throw waste such as chicken bones on the floor etc. (She is Thai and her business has been limping it's way along for years).

Very difficult to discuss this without sounding racist isn't it?

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  • 3 weeks later...

1. The horrendous dangerous driving....car accidents, motor bike accidents, ....it's no pleasure getting around.

2, Even walking is unpleasant....pot holes in the pavements and crossing a road is like dicing with death....I think motor cyclists try to hit a Farang.

3, The high crime rate......the burglaries, the thousands of people on drugs of one sort or another and the large number of supposed 'suicides'.

4. The feeling that you are not really liked by a vast proportion of the people....they pretend to like you for money.

5, The hassle with visas and the not knowing what will happen in the future.

6 The CORRUPTION from the highest to the lowest.

Just a few of numerous reasons why many ALIENS are saying Good bye.

And the feeling that things here are not improving generally but deteriorating,

#3. "The high crime rate etc. " I'm from Canada. Sounds like back home to me :-)

#4. Same. My neighbors hardly even talk to each other even after living side by side for years.

#5. Not a problem if you're over 50. Back home visas are available for 6 months and after that you have to qualify for landed immigrant status or have a guarantor in order to get an extension which will probably be given for 1 extension only. Good luck trying to qualify for landed immigrant status also. A friend married a Thai and it took more than 3 years for her to be allowed to come to Canada.

#6. Not so bad if you know a little thai and have a thai drivers license to prove you live here.

#1. & 2. - I'll have to agree.

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I started this thread as there seemed to be Farangs leaving from my area,anyway,

and just want to see if this was the same in other parts of Chiang Mai,the result was

interesting,some people said yes,others no,just judging by Immigration office.

Anyway my wife had a house to rent,and i am thinking,its going to take a long time

to find a tenant,more so as the house is unfurnished,but in a good area,5 bedrooms,

etc.we just posted on 6 sites on INTERNET,(not a reply), and on the gate and electric

poles in the area,6 weeks empty,and we get someone interested,while they were viewing,

another family came,both wanted the house,so gave it to the first family,both were new

arrivals to Chiang Mai,feeling very lucky,even bought lottery ticket,thinking the odds were

about the same.

Regards Worgeordie

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I have a foot in both camps on this issue, yes indeed Chiang Mai has got better over the past ten years but I also think we're getting very close to the ceiling when it comes to the numbers of farangs living here. The risk is I think that if the numbers keep rising at the same rate, Chiang Mai will start to loose it's appeal and it might mutate into something undesirable, costs will rise (even further) and attitudes towards farangs will change for the worse, just like in Pattaya and Phuket.

I couldn't agree more. The other dynamic is the influx of Chinese tourists. Yes, they are short-term visitors but are here in such numbers and are already creating uneasy feelings with the locals.

They are not all short term visitors. I have a friend living in Pai and he tells me they are opening business there. Here in Chiang Mai I have seen signs in several places written in Chinese. I know they are tourists but they are becoming more and more aware of Chiang Mai. Won't be long and the Chinese population will start to rise here in Chiang Mai.sad.png

Nothing against the Chinese but ass has been pointed out here several times Chiang Mai has enough Farongs. They may not fall under the Farong title but they will still add population which will just increase the pollution and traffic problems we already face. Also I am hearing talk of water supply problems in some areas.

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