Fearing military, Pattaya rushes to eradicate sin

[KhunBoy]

Many times has this been said but with futile results. Its no different now.

[slygeeza]

I guess some people will like this fantasy, but the reality is that the tourists dont mind the street workers (apart from the ones that are thieves) and walking street is now quite an attraction because of its sordid reputation. what the tourists dont like and the reason many dont return is the polluted beaches and sea. but this isnt an attempt to try an attract tourists, this is just about face

I can see a lot of people like your post so clearly you are not alone in your opinion but I still strongly disagree with you that tourists don't mind street walkers,, of course they do. Ok, a group of blokes out on the beer would not care but most others do, especially those with kids.

I would never dream of taking anyone down there with their kids in tow, or any older person, or my mother, or ay one else to be blunt. To me the place is a seedy hell hole only fit for dirty perverts or those seeking to pay for the services of some young lady (or guy).

Get rid of it all I say,

my personal view is that the ladies are what keeps it safe, I have been in Bangkok and Pattaya when the streets have been cleared for royal visits and it doesnt feel save at all when the ladies are gone, nobody wants to be out there, least of all kids

[toooa]

Prostitution, it is the oldest profession in the world.

If they want to reduce it (they will never eradicate it), they need to look at the root causes and eradicate poverty, and the root cause of that in Thailand is corruption.

and the root cause of corruption is........? cuz we've got to get to the root causes here....any takers? for one jelly bean? anyone?....Yes, you, in the back row?

"the State sir". Yes. Indeed my friend. The imbalance of power between the enforcers and the enforced on, will always corrupt.

[JSixpack]

The Go Go bars and bars have woman who are happy to sin for reward.

They ain't sinnin' there.

Are these places not considered sinful ?

No.

Edited September 1, 2014 by JSixpack

[slipperylobster]

The Go Go bars and bars have woman who are happy to sin for reward.

They ain't sinnin' there.

Are these places not considered sinful ?

No.

how convenient this must be for you.

[JSixpack]

The Go Go bars and bars have woman who are happy to sin for reward.

They ain't sinnin' there.

Are these places not considered sinful ?

No.

how convenient this must be for you.

Pattaya provides.

[ginglee]

I just told my wife and she laughed. What about the Issan girls? They not make money selling beer?

My wife’s other comment, was that all the stupid farang go there.

At some point this middle class dominate value will find resistance.

Some of the legal activities need to be cleaned up, but to eradicate what has provided many a income for many years will not make everyone happy.

Disrespects her own people and farangs...nice wife you have there Chris, good on you .........by the way I go to Pattaya, so I guess I'm stupid right?

[ginglee]

Pattaya is 'win' city not sin city........The girls & guys have smiles on their faces...it's win win !

[harrry]

If Junta going to eradicate sin in Pattaya they might need UN military to help out personally I think Pattaya is beyond the stage of help, the biggest brothel in the world catering for all types.

I think that would only increase it....it was built by the US military in the 60s....

[wandasloan]

I think that would only increase it....it was built by the US military in the 60s....

Another urban legend. There was no "Pattaya" in the 1960s - not at all. Not a hotel, not a bar, not a restaurant. Nothing.

In 1971, when the US combat withdrawal from Vietnam was finished and there was no more R&R, here were three hotels in Pattaya, and a few restaurants. There will still no bars.

As for the troops stationed in Thailand, the Utapao troops had fun at "Kilo 10", a crossroads place with bars and girls that was quite a lot way from Pattaya, not on the beach and, as the name implies, 10 kilometres north of Utapao-Sattahip. When Pattaya began to be Pattaya, there were almost no American military in Thailand.

The first large group of foreigners that "built" Pattaya were Germans, labourers who came to Thailand for two-week holidays. To this day, the Swiss/Austrian/Germany community is still quite over-represented, numbers-wise.

The truth is that nothing the US military "built" in the 60s and up to 1973 is left to see. The bases and bar areas are all gone. Pattaya, which was NOT built by the US military, has flourished. So has Patpong, also not built by the US military. You could argue that the old $5 R&R hotels are still in Bangkok and some of them are - but they are spotted all over the place and unidentifiable. The real area that the US military DID build in Bangkok, Petchaburi Tat Mai, is an arguably raunchy bar and club area today, but it's 100% Thai.

On the other hand, Thailand and its neighbours are not controlled by a government in Hanoi or Beijing - so that was something pretty good that was left behind by the US military and others.

.

[tommytitfull]

100,000 plus live on so called sin city maybe support 1 million all over Thailand.Thais do it at karoke places.Clean up the theives great just leave the rest alone or change the rates of pay so people dont need to sell their body.Remember it is the oldest job in the world.

[Plutojames88]

Times are changing , clearly many people feel sex work isn't a wrong doing , or buying sex is bad.

However societies still determine laws and/ or norms and religious doctrine often govern the over all perception .

Pattaya has many thousands of people engaged in this activity daily.

We're that activity restricted or outlawed , the social desires to improve perceived moral righteousness might be achieved.

But what of the economic need of the girl?

Would theft increase ?

Suicide ?

Drug use ? ( related to depression)

Economic freedom to a minimum level might be preferred to no self determination.?

Many hookers lack skills and education .

Again whilst western men of low morals find themselves happy to pay for sex , who are we to judge them if the worker willingly wishes to advance her lot in life.

There are favourable outcomes in this trade.

Many woman end up with a bank roll enough to start a small business or partner who buys a home for example.

Some woman and men experience less happy outcomes.

But it's an adult trade.

And I suppose the bottom line is the Thais need to weigh up their social values in a way of their choosing.

Just as not all men who visit Thailand seek out sex , not all Thai girls want to open their life up to overseas visitors in that respect.

I think the sex tourists themselves might do some good.

But it's a fine line here.

And ultimately the final say might need to come from the people.

And their representatives .

[GinBoy2]

Pattaya is a spectacle first & foremost. I can't believe many people actually go there primarily for the beach, there are a lot more world class beaches in Thailand. I 'suspect' it's major attraction is it's seediness

[JSixpack]

If Junta going to eradicate sin in Pattaya they might need UN military to help out personally I think Pattaya is beyond the stage of help, the biggest brothel in the world catering for all types.

I think that would only increase it....it was built by the US military in the 60s....

How to Avoid Spreading Myths and Misinformation Online

[JSixpack]

Pattaya is a spectacle first & foremost. I can't believe many people actually go there primarily for the beach, there are a lot more world class beaches in Thailand. I 'suspect' it's major attraction is it's seediness

Reminds me of an annoyance. It's amazing what they can do w/ Photoshop these days. Like this last Labor Day in the Pattaya Mail:

Can you believe that nonsense? It's like all those CGI warriors swelling the fantasy armies of The Lord Of The Rings. All our wiser-than-thou members KNOW that there's no beach. Nobody can swim. And they've cut-and-pasted in that blue sky and the buildings (all deserted), as in truth the horrible smog prevents them from ever being seen.

In fact, that Labor Day weekend, there were only a few radioactive Russian zombies wandering around. Damn pundits trying to claim there's a beach and swimming in Pattaya. Must be real estate agents is all I can figure.

Edited September 1, 2014 by JSixpack

[harrry]

If Junta going to eradicate sin in Pattaya they might need UN military to help out personally I think Pattaya is beyond the stage of help, the biggest brothel in the world catering for all types.

I think that would only increase it....it was built by the US military in the 60s....

How to Avoid Spreading Myths and Misinformation Online

Yes you may like to get the facts.

Try reading this book which you can find on Google Books...try page 79 if you are too lazy to read it all

Tourism and War edited by Richard Butler, Wantanee Suntikul

[JSixpack]

If Junta going to eradicate sin in Pattaya they might need UN military to help out personally I think Pattaya is beyond the stage of help, the biggest brothel in the world catering for all types.

I think that would only increase it....it was built by the US military in the 60s....

How to Avoid Spreading Myths and Misinformation Online

Yes you may like to get the facts.

Try reading this book which you can find on Google Books...try page 79 if you are too lazy to read it all

Tourism and War edited by Richard Butler, Wantanee Suntikul

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/756258-fearing-military-pattaya-rushes-to-eradicate-sin/page-9#entry8327870

Been thoroughly discussed on the forum several times. Pattaya was NOT "built by the US military in the 60s."

[KhunBoy]

A lot of Thai families from Bkk actually bring their children down to Pattaya for a weekend or holiday because thats the closest beach to town for them. But I would say nearly 90% of foreigners are there for the sleaze. No parents in their right minds would bring their kids walking down Soho in England or Kings Cross in Sydney. They will have to be crazy to do that.

[harrry]

How to Avoid Spreading Myths and Misinformation Online

Yes you may like to get the facts.

Try reading this book which you can find on Google Books...try page 79 if you are too lazy to read it all

Tourism and War edited by Richard Butler, Wantanee Suntikul

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/756258-fearing-military-pattaya-rushes-to-eradicate-sin/page-9#entry8327870

Been thoroughly discussed on the forum several times. Pattaya was NOT "built by the US military in the 60s."

The germans did not come until the 70s. They came as a result of cheap charters designed to take up the unused capacity after the US pulled out,. I first went there in 1969 and I can assure you there were mainly americans there then. This forum is not a reliable source of facts.

[slipperylobster]

Pattaya is 'win' city not sin city........The girls & guys have smiles on their faces...it's win win !

STD Clinics sure are smiling about all the money coming in.

[Robert2006]

It the same old same old from all governments, it seems like they all use the same handbook. Go after the little people, “it’s for the safety of the public”, and the tired old standby “it’s for the children” are the standard government lines to support the removal of personal freedoms.

Beach chair operators and Ladyboys, those are really the most important issues facing Pattaya! How about just cleaning the filth off the beaches and throughout a city that can be accurately described as an open garbage can. Repairing the roads so a decent car can be used on them or maybe upgrading the sewage system so people can walk the city without having to smell everyone’s sh%$t.

[MILT]

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Prostitution, it is the oldest profession in the world.

If they want to reduce it (they will never eradicate it), they need to look at the root causes and eradicate poverty, and the root cause of that in Thailand is corruption.

Couldn't agree more! Also to allow and encourage critical thinking and healthy arguments in the class room. Encourage self worth rather than propagate the blasé.

[moonseeker]

When does the crack-down start? Just back from long walk. Same...same....The same Trio opp. Tahitian Queen pick-pocketing old men and Indians @ 22.30....Walking Street lined with LB's @ 23.30.....Seen a couple new Gogos ready to open, some more For Sale. Soi 7 & 8 dead and sad to see, remembering the fun years, a long time ago....:-) The ladies seem to have aged and gained weight with us Farangs....This is and will be Pattaya. Rather entertaining, once in a while. MS>

Edited September 1, 2014 by moonseeker

[boike]

Just like in the Netherlands where lawmakers try to get rid of the biggest tourist attractions: red light district and coffee shops. Baffling

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

[moonseeker]

Just like in the Netherlands where lawmakers try to get rid of the biggest tourist attractions: red light district and coffee shops. Baffling

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

The world is getting sanitized and boring. :-) Good night. MS>

[Jonmarleesco]

It comes to something when such clean ups rely on the threat of the military. Shows just how insipid the typical Thai minister has proven to be.

[manarak]

I think that would only increase it....it was built by the US military in the 60s....

How to Avoid Spreading Myths and Misinformation Online

Yes you may like to get the facts.

Try reading this book which you can find on Google Books...try page 79 if you are too lazy to read it all

Tourism and War edited by Richard Butler, Wantanee Suntikul

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/756258-fearing-military-pattaya-rushes-to-eradicate-sin/page-9#entry8327870

Been thoroughly discussed on the forum several times. Pattaya was NOT "built by the US military in the 60s."

don't ruin a good story with facts !!!

[JSixpack]

I first went there in 1969 and I can assure you there were mainly americans there then. This forum is not a reliable source of facts.

Your "facts." A few Americans staying at the beach don't constitute a "build up" of any scene, definitely not the distinctive Pattaya bar/go-go/ho scene. The significant R&R scene--as far as Thailand goes--was in Bangkok.

Go read the discussion here where every poster who was here during the period denies any build up of Pattaya by the Americans--at any time, not just in the 60s as you erroneously claim. Note that Brits and Ozzies had a camp in 1963.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/358302-did-america-create-pattaya/

Just a few quotations from the thread:

@longball53098, 2010-04-23 11:29:10:

The Pattaya I remember in 1966 is not what anyone here is trying to make it. IMHO Pattaya today was not "created" by America and the American GI. For those of us who lived and worked at Utapao in 66' it was a weekend getaway and a beautiful change of scenery from the Buffs and KCs.

Someone said we did not build or support anything at Pattaya. I guess I disagree with that as there was a small Post Exchange store and a small resort of sorts that we could stay in across the road from the beach. A civilian we worked with was making the"big" bucks in those days so he rented a beach bungalow where we had big parties on the weekends. My old memory does not remember any bars other than Barbos on the beach at what I think is Walking Street now. I did my first ever water skiing there. Some people say that there was a hotel where the Nova Lodge is now but I have no memory of this at all

There was not hoards of any GIs running around and there were not more than 3 or 4 really shoddy bars. We did rent motor bikes even then and drink and do crazy stuff. All the real woman action was in Bangkok on Petchburi Road where all the Go-Gos and massage shops were and Patpong was an upscale area for the richer airline types and officers.

As said in another post I don't think many GIs talked about Pattaya when they got back to the world and most forgot about the whole area. It was not a hub of R&R activity except maybe a place for the local "in country GI" to come and get some beach time.

@p_brownstone,2010-04-23 11:12:06:

I came here in 1971 and in those days Pattaya was mostly popiular with resident Expats - many individuals - and even some of the Companies here - had their own Bungalows on beaches like Wong Amart.

There were 2 hotels - Nipa Hut and another ................ I think the name was Pattaya Palace.

There was very little Nightlife as I recall, mainly restaurants like Dolf Riks and Barbos etc., and very few GI type visitors

I am not sure when the place really "took off" but I think it was the advent of "Tour Group" type tourism in the late '70's / early '80's .

@mark45y, 2010-04-22 20:36:14:

But I must point out Pattaya was not an R&R center. I’ll repeat that for those of you who didn’t see it the first time. Pattaya was not an R&R center.

America did not finance or construct anything in Pattaya. America did not finance anything in Pattaya. It had R&R centers and hotels and clubs in Bangkok but not in Pattaya. America was completely out of Thailand and Vietnam by 1975 and there wasn’t anything built in Pattaya in 1975 except a couple of hotels. Google some photos of Pattaya in 1975. Nothing but a dirt road and a few motorbikes.

@ignoy, 2010-04-22 15:14:24:

british and australian troops had an R&R camp on pattaya beach in 1963!!

@padfoot, 2010-04-22 11:35:00

My R&R was spent in Bangkok. That was 1968. I didn't even know Pattaya existed. I always get a kick out of people who set themselves up as experts who where never there.

@mark45, 2010-04-22 10:54:15

The first time I came to Thailand was in 1969. I had military business in Bangkok and U-Tapao. I drove through Pattaya and was not impressed enough to stop. There were only a couple of hotels and not much going on.

I posted this in the general forum because Pattaya was a non entity during the late 60’s and early 70’s.

So again:

How to Avoid Spreading Myths and Misinformation Online

Edited September 1, 2014 by JSixpack

[RTH10260]

I guess some people will like this fantasy, but the reality is that the tourists dont mind the street workers (apart from the ones that are thieves) and walking street is now quite an attraction because of its sordid reputation. what the tourists dont like and the reason many dont return is the polluted beaches and sea. but this isnt an attempt to try an attract tourists, this is just about face

And considering this is now low and rainy season, things seem to be controllable. Now let high season come with a full onset of tourists and the service ladies (and ladyboys) out in their full numbers and enforcement will collapse.

PS. when I was in Pattaya a few weeks back I had the impression that tourist police outnumbered visitors.

[Tywais]

Another urban legend. There was no "Pattaya" in the 1960s - not at all. Not a hotel, not a bar, not a restaurant. Nothing.

Not entirely accurate. I was stationed at Utapao in 1968-1969 and rented a house on what I believe is now referred to as Beach Road. The bars and restaurants were not what you see now of course, most being wood structures with thatch roofs, some mixed wood concrete structures. I've been to most of the bars on that stretch during that period including the alleged first beer bar Barbos. There were no Gogo at the time and the girls in the bars were much more subdued and not in your face with more modest clothing and usually dancing with each other or sitting at a table. There was one 'restaurant' that I went to regularly and set outside on the veranda next to the ocean having pancakes and coke in the mornings. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of photos of the structures along the main road but some of the beach.

Kilosip on the other hand was, let's say, much more basic. Bars in the area mostly made up from discarded plywood and galvanized sheets from the construction of the base. Very basic facilities.

There was one hotel at the far end of beach road and that was the Pattaya Beach Hotel, about 3 stories I believe. As for no "Pattaya", that is correct in the sense it had not yet been formally made a city until I believe 1978.