'Deadly blasts' in China's Xinjiang

[P45Mustang]

From the OP.

'Xinjiang has suffered unrest in recent months amid tensions between the local Uighurs, a Muslim Turkic people, and Han Chinese settlers.'

​So who was there in the first place? If Beijing thinks they own the place then it's not surprising there is trouble.

Edification appreciated please.

[arjunadawn]

There are very few two party democracies. Most parliamentary governments are coalition governments that must necessarily be inclusive. Even in the exceptional system such as the USA where two major parties dominate, the rights of the minority party and its voters are protected and respected.

In the PRC no one votes for the CCP so to say democracies have only one more choice that the PRChina people have is completely wrong. The PRChinese have no vote and thus no choice whatsoever. Anyone who says the PRChinese have one fewer "choice" than voters in a given Western multi-party democracy must have just crash landed here from a life and civilization on another planet.

The West is defending itself against ruthless and primitive aggressive religious fanatics. Beijing is further imposing itself across the lands of the former East Turkistan Islamic Republic, which it calls Xin Jiang (New Frontier) and whose people it must fight and kill to subjugate.

Great post but I am curious: is China actually expanding into new lands? I basically cant see how this is China but hasn't china long claimed the areas under discussion?

[LawrenceChee]

From the OP.

'Xinjiang has suffered unrest in recent months amid tensions between the local Uighurs, a Muslim Turkic people, and Han Chinese settlers.'

​So who was there in the first place? If Beijing thinks they own the place then it's not surprising there is trouble.

Edification appreciated please.

So when the great Brits or USA or any western power went into the colonies in your history books ...didn't these respective countries took time to integrate the locals, quell tensions , built a normality ?

China is sorting it's own internal issues and Xinjiang belongs to china...takes time and it takes patience ...

[NeverSure]

There are very few two party democracies. Most parliamentary governments are coalition governments that must necessarily be inclusive. Even in the exceptional system such as the USA where two major parties dominate, the rights of the minority party and its voters are protected and respected.

In the PRC no one votes for the CCP so to say democracies have only one more choice that the PRChina people have is completely wrong. The PRChinese have no vote and thus no choice whatsoever. Anyone who says the PRChinese have one fewer "choice" than voters in a given Western multi-party democracy must have just crash landed here from a life and civilization on another planet.

The West is defending itself against ruthless and primitive aggressive religious fanatics. Beijing is further imposing itself across the lands of the former East Turkistan Islamic Republic, which it calls Xin Jiang (New Frontier) and whose people it must fight and kill to subjugate.

55555555555555555555555555555....in the USA minority rights are protected and respected.

It's delusional thoughts that allow some to think they have the right to lord over others and impose their values thinking it's a one size fit all solution for the world

Are you implying the in the US minority rights aren't protected?

If you are, have you heard about anti-discrimination laws, affirmative action, quotas in hiring and school admissions, the wiping out of segregated schools and neighborhoods...?

Have you heard of Autherine Juanita Lucy, who was the first black student to attend the University of Alabama, in 1956? She was admitted but only after backing from national figures and a court order. Now it is not only commonplace for blacks to be admitted across the US, but there has been "affirmative action" where schools had to meet a quota by percentage of blacks.

Discrimination due to race is a Federal offense everywhere.

The US has a black President. Times have changed.

[P45Mustang]

From the OP.

'Xinjiang has suffered unrest in recent months amid tensions between the local Uighurs, a Muslim Turkic people, and Han Chinese settlers.'

​So who was there in the first place? If Beijing thinks they own the place then it's not surprising there is trouble.

Edification appreciated please.

So when the great Brits or USA or any western power went into the colonies in your history books ...didn't these respective countries took time to integrate the locals, quell tensions , built a normality ?

China is sorting it's own internal issues and Xinjiang belongs to china...takes time and it takes patience ...

Right. That sorts that out then.

Xinjiang belongs to China and anybody who wears Muslim headgear and cooks food that is nothing like Chinese food needs to just shut up and toe the party line.

Just the same as in a Uyghur restaurant on the Jiangtai Road in Beijing.

But don't tell the Uyghur waitress, because she is quite likely to give you a very stern look.

I know a very nice Mongolian restaurant in the vicinity also. Fantastic spit roast lamb.

Better do some repair work on the Great Wall I think Mr Chee. Wouldn't want any ethnics getting in or getting out of the Middle Kingdom would we.

[P45Mustang]

From the OP.

'Xinjiang has suffered unrest in recent months amid tensions between the local Uighurs, a Muslim Turkic people, and Han Chinese settlers.'

​So who was there in the first place? If Beijing thinks they own the place then it's not surprising there is trouble.

Edification appreciated please.

So when the great Brits or USA or any western power went into the colonies in your history books ...didn't these respective countries took time to integrate the locals, quell tensions , built a normality ?

China is sorting it's own internal issues and Xinjiang belongs to china...takes time and it takes patience ...

And Uighurs have no representation in government.

Net result: tension, resentment and conflict. As the OP is reporting.

Uighurs have no voice. PRC are not interested in diversity. They want uniformity. Their brand of uniformity too, unfortunately.

[LawrenceChee]

From the OP.

'Xinjiang has suffered unrest in recent months amid tensions between the local Uighurs, a Muslim Turkic people, and Han Chinese settlers.'

​So who was there in the first place? If Beijing thinks they own the place then it's not surprising there is trouble.

Edification appreciated please.

So when the great Brits or USA or any western power went into the colonies in your history books ...didn't these respective countries took time to integrate the locals, quell tensions , built a normality ?

China is sorting it's own internal issues and Xinjiang belongs to china...takes time and it takes patience ...

And Uighurs have no representation in government.

Net result: tension, resentment and conflict. As the OP is reporting.

Uighurs have no voice. PRC are not interested in diversity. They want uniformity. Their brand of uniformity too, unfortunately.

Ablimit Ahmettohti Damolla Hajim, is the delegate to the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC)

Unfortunately again the west sees what they want to see. There is a delegate and the west rejects him because he was not voted in to another term like in western style pork barrel politics.

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted. This topic is about China. Not everything that is wrong in the West.

[P45Mustang]

^

"Ablimit Ahmettohti Damolla Hajim, delegate to the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC), said majority Han Chinese emigration to Xinjiang and strict curbs on everyday practice of Islam are sidelining Uyghurs in their own homeland.

During last week’s CPPCC meeting in Beijing, Hajim called on leaders in China’s central government to address the issues and create clearer “instructions” that would protect ethnic minority and religious rights guaranteed in existing national laws, according to his interview with state-run media.

The CPPCC is part of the ruling Chinese Communist Party-controlled governmental structure and meets once a year along with the National People’s Congress, the country’s rubber stamp parliament."

The National People's Congress continue to be the rubber stampers so poor old Ablimit is a little bit limited in what he can achieve though.

Muslim faith and Buddhism in China are irritations and distractions to the CCP-PRC. Ask a Tibetan or a Urighur.

[P45Mustang]

Cultural diversity, heritage and history in China died under Chairman Mao during the cultural revolution.

Untold damage that will never be repaired.

It is beyond the capability of Xi Jinping and the CCP leaders to do it, even if they were highly motivated to.

And they clearly aren't.

[LawrenceChee]

Ask a real Chinese and they will proudly share with you their heritage and culture

My ancestors were from Guangzhou ...we are proudly Cantonese and speak that first before mandarin in any setting. We have our own food , dim sum , steam fish and home made soup cuisine that is uniquely ours.

Speak with a shanghai person and I cannot understand his dialect or his love for chill soup fish ...speak with a Sichuan Chinese for his passion in chili peppers pork and the innate firecracker of the women there who dominate their manfolk

Teaching my nephew in using the abacus first before an iPad and calculator is a heritage lesson in the quick thinking math that has dominated the history of the people from the south and made us the most prolific businessmen of china ...and on spreading ourselves in the world.

We have our customs for Chinese New Year not sweeping the floor for the 1st 7 days to ensure wealth stays inside the family , paying respects for marriage and death rituals. Acupuncturist, Taichi, Chinese calligraphy

No history or heritage is lost because in Asian heritage the family unit is the core of everything not the government. What your parents and relatives teach you ensure you stay true to being Chinese.

[P45Mustang]

^

So why doesn't China let the Uighur's and Tibetans enjoy their customs?

[Publicus]

From the OP.

'Xinjiang has suffered unrest in recent months amid tensions between the local Uighurs, a Muslim Turkic people, and Han Chinese settlers.'

​So who was there in the first place? If Beijing thinks they own the place then it's not surprising there is trouble.

Edification appreciated please.

"In the first place" could mean 2800 years ago when the Aryans who became known as the Tajiks established themselves in the fertile Tarim Basin of what is now southwest Xin Jiang and pretty close to India, or it could refer to the direct impact of a big shot from among the inner circle of Mohammed who the emperor welcomed to introduce Islam to China, or it could mean the gradually dominant Turkic group of the region consisting of trace Indo Europeans called the Uyghurs.

I met some Tajik Uyghurs while I lived and worked in southern China and they remarkably had the complexion of Swedes who might only have acquired the black hair of East Asian peoples despite their couple of thousand years in the region. The Russians called the Uighurs the Sarit, meaning the sedentary agricultural and Silk Road trading post people in contrast to Central Asian nomads.

Beijing is certain they own the place and the people but the CCP Boyz continue to compete against centuries of Russian influence on Uyghur Sarit landowners there, not to mention Islam, and the impact of the 19th century Brits who funded the Qing Empress Dowager (CiXi) to raise an army which channeled the Uyghur "Muslims of the Oases" back toward China and away from the increasingly powerful Tsars.

Chinese Muslims fared well across the board under the Han golden age Tang Dynasty but were poorly treated by the Manchu Qing Dynasty that collapsed in 1911. Mao didn't like any religion or religious groups so the Uyghurs fought in the losing cause of Chiang Kai Shek, which subjected the Uighurs to Cultural Revolution targeting that left 360,000 executed.

The post Cultural Revolution policy of the CCP towards the Uighurs has been to isolate them from their historical Western-Middle East-Russian orientation toward the Middle Kingdom. Toward this end, the CCP has morphed Xinjiang’s population from 83% Uighur to about 60% Uighur and 40% Han Chinese, the Han taking over everything from government and the economy to the appointment of imams while leaving the mass of Uighurs excluded and poor. Almost all the Han live in paramilitary and fortified Bing Tuan corporate communities that are self-sustaining.

Western intelligence agencies foresee bigger trouble in the immediate future as they assess the Uighurs as becoming increasingly prone to violence while the CCP Boyz in Beijing have always made clear they brook absolutely no dissent, no separatism, and even less any terrorism.

As Uighurs become more fierce in their attachment to the fellow Muslim "Stan" countries bordering Xin Jiang, to include Afghanistan and Pakistan, the CIA in particular sees the confluence of increasing Uighur resistance, the extensive energy and pipeline infrastructure criss crossing Xin Jiang, and the forceful CCP clampdown on Uighurs as an ethnic group as indicating the differences between the two sides will not end well, if it ends at all.

Not even China has enough People's Armed Police and PLA soldiers to protect the energy pipeline infrastructure of Xin Jiang.

The map of Bing Tuan residence compounds and energy production infrastructure throughout Xin Jiang, to include pipelines that flow into the PRC comes from the Economist.

The Economist

Btw I've said for a long time China on a map looks like a Klingon warship descending on the Enterprise.

[P45Mustang]

^

Thanks.

I will digest and cogitate on this tomorrow.

If I could go back to University now I would study Social Anthropology.

I found the Uighurs in Beijing very interesting people.

[Publicus]

Ask a real Chinese and they will proudly share with you their heritage and culture

My ancestors were from Guangzhou ...we are proudly Cantonese and speak that first before mandarin in any setting. We have our own food , dim sum , steam fish and home made soup cuisine that is uniquely ours.

Speak with a shanghai person and I cannot understand his dialect or his love for chill soup fish ...speak with a Sichuan Chinese for his passion in chili peppers pork and the innate firecracker of the women there who dominate their manfolk

Teaching my nephew in using the abacus first before an iPad and calculator is a heritage lesson in the quick thinking math that has dominated the history of the people from the south and made us the most prolific businessmen of china ...and on spreading ourselves in the world.

We have our customs for Chinese New Year not sweeping the floor for the 1st 7 days to ensure wealth stays inside the family , paying respects for marriage and death rituals. Acupuncturist, Taichi, Chinese calligraphy

No history or heritage is lost because in Asian heritage the family unit is the core of everything not the government. What your parents and relatives teach you ensure you stay true to being Chinese.

Ask a real Chinese as contrasted to an unreal Chinese? Or an un-Chinese Chinese?

You recognize of course that you get to pass your cultural heritage on to only one child per family, and that this fact puts you and your child at a distinct disadvantage up against the CCP government which has your kid in school all day, 220 days a year until your one child is 14 years old, often until 18 as a matter of reality. When your one and only child isn't in school s/he can watch the CCP's 44 channel Central China Television, CCTV, where the CCP manages to say the same thing about how great it is in 44 different ways.

I'm regardless of the school that considers the Cantonese language to be the original Chinese language. Given that there are more than 200 Chinese languages, that should be saying something. As you indicate, there are so many Chinese languages that are separate and distinct languages, the Chinese cannot communicate among themselves. As you also well know, this is historically true and thus has been a serious impediment to Chinese unity, cultural commonality and unity especially and in particular.

You would also well know the written Chinese sign language is more readily a tool of effective communication that are the diversity of spoken languages, each with its own vocabulary, idoms, and too often its own phonics.

Which brings us to Mandarin, aka Pu Tong Hua. It is the chosen language of the CCP elites to be the national language, the single common and unifying tongue of all Chinese. Trouble is, Mandarin originates from Mongolia, which makes it a foreign tongue. Mandarin is also known as Beijinghua, meaning it is the language of the Beijing elites, not of the ordinary Chinese people.

Your ancestry being in Guangzhou, which as you know is Ye Olde Canton, you'd well know all this exciting stuff. So I'd be interested in what you might think of the fierce objections and public demonstrations in Guangzhou, Hong Kong and other places south of the Yangtze, against Mandarin. I'm advised Singapore to a great extent speaks Cantonese as many from Canton and the significant Chao Shan areas next to it share many commonalities of the language.

Canton traditional evening snack foods are positively scrumptious and divine, among the very very best cuisine I've ever had. The regular every day Cantonese food is however full of bones which most people spit out onto the table a mouthful at a time during each meal. The Cantonese people are rather taken when I point out to them their common cultural habit is absolutely not a part of the food etiquette where I come from. So I hope you guys aren't promoting the habit and table etiquette in and around Xin Jiang. If you guys are promoting it, it just might be a large part of your problems there.

[LawrenceChee]

I think it's rude to make fun of table etiquette and spend time highlighting only the negative perceptions ....it's a low form of forum contributions.

No Chinese wants to export that and yes in the rural and smaller tier cities people are still comfortable being themselves and not stuffy.

Most who have dined with Chinese families often think they have imposed themselves on their host as they really try to make their guest comfortable and go out of their way to be friendly

In every culture every one has some situations or food items where being comfy makes the food more enjoyable ....messy BBQ ribs / wings ..when I am eating KFC in Chiang Mai I use my hands and yes there is a mess of bones at the side when I am done but no I don't spit because I don't have to

When I am dining at Ritz entertaining the governors, everything is pre-plated and rarely are there bones in the fish selected...you don't see Obama eating crabs on his table setting when he is hosting something formal right ? There is a lot of common sense in those selections.

It's the same in a table invitation in Guangzhou...it's formal and dignified eating ...but maybe not all have experienced it yet since sharks fin soup and steamed Buddha jump over the wall may not be everyone's cup of tea.

[P45Mustang]

Pork Belly from Hunan is quite nice. Not sure it does much for your cholesterol levels though.

Mao Zedong used to like it apparently.

But never mind, let some people die so the rest can eat a hearty meal.

I find China disappointing in many respects in today's world.

Trouble in Xinjiang is a symptom of a serious underlying malaise.

But I'm from the West so my opinion is therefore naturally biased. Incorrect unfortunately.

[Steely Dan]

"Ever had any dealings with the Uighurs? I have and they frightened the crap out of me."

Some are bad but most are good IME. You must be a Chinese as the only people I have heard say they are outright scared of them are Chinese. Certainly most westerners aren't. They also quite openly deal drugs in Beijing, and I wonder if this is used to fund the cause.

" If you wake the sleeping dragon you can expect to get burnt."

Well likewise, if you colonize Muslim lands you can expect bombs and terrorism as well. Then again, if you don't colonize them they'll want to colonize you. Seems like two great evils - PRC and radical/militant/savage Islam - having a rather explosive meeting.

Unwittingly or not you spelled it out, whatever you do Muslim populations become problematic in sufficient numbers. No approach seems to work regardless of whether it is brutal or conciliatory save for total suppression as an Assad or Saddam Hussein practiced.

[P45Mustang]

^

Need to be very careful about confusing the issue of the PRC's attitude and behaviour to ethnic minorities with any preconceptions. or indeed facts, that the West may have about radical Islam.

Issues in Xinjiang are not a million miles away from the problems that Tibetan Buddhists experience at the hands of the PRC.

[Scott]

Thank you for sharing a little about your background. I lived in Hong Kong for a number of years and my work took me all over China. I very much enjoyed the Cantonese people -- at least most of the time. I still have a lot of friends in HK and Southern China and they frequently come to Thailand, so I keep abreast of things in that part of China.

We do need to stay on the topic, in as much as possible.

[P45Mustang]

Yes. Live and let live.

I visited Hong Kong recently. Booked a late room on Agoda. Complete nightmare. Hotel proprietor was muttering something about getting the Japanese room ready for me.

Hong Kong is definitely an interesting kettle of fish. Predominantly Cantonese speaking I believe, and 2000km from Beijing as the crow flies.

[LawrenceChee]

Yes. Live and let live.

I visited Hong Kong recently. Booked a late room on Agoda. Complete nightmare. Hotel proprietor was muttering something about getting the Japanese room ready for me.

Hong Kong is definitely an interesting kettle of fish. Predominantly Cantonese speaking I believe, and 2000km from Beijing as the crow flies.

Bingo ....Chinese are distinctly different ...the west needs to understand that as they have asked for china to engage the west and also understand how that works.

We are in essence first a family unit and everything in the family and then the family name clan comes first.

This explains the Chinese networking of association clan houses you see around the world. We help ourselves first and this may not go well with everyone but it's the way we have done business ..."probably all the reason behind all the Chinese jokes ...oh you need something done I have a 4th uncle that has a factory"

We are politically astute and voice our opinions internally and it's vocal and critical when the government gets it wrong.

As such we are not repressed ..,we are just very selective of the people we share our deepest thinking of things with...

However it's not in our nature to be overtly critical in a public setting on TV and as such we look "oppressed" to the west with your TV shows where you can lambast any opinion or have a special day to make fun of your president.

I personally think it's undignified but I can see the humor and pun intended and why it may work in the western world ....the recent discussion on whether Obama can play golf or host a fundraiser where there was a city riot showcases how wide this gulf of cultural difference is as you can see in the east there is in general no reporting of what leaders do.

Most Asians believe it's their own business and we should not be nosy parkers and they should have their own space and privacy even if they are politicians.

As such I take it on myself to explain some of the thinking behind a Chinese mind and hope the majority of the forum enjoys that.

China is far from being perfect although the family unit will ensure that for years to come , the families that take an active interest in moulding their young will develop leaders of the future for the world just as it always has been for all cultures.

[LawrenceChee]

As for Xinjiang and Tibet ...strategically they are of importance to the Chinese from a border defense perspective as much as Inner Mongolia and the far north is.

[P45Mustang]

Bingo. The family unit is more important than the Chinese government, who the Chinese family don't listen to any way.

Bingo. Every Chinese child and parent knows that they exist only because the CCP allowed them to exist.

Bingo. Xinjiang, Tibet, and Mongolia are strategically important to the PRC.

Bingo. How does Uighur or Tibetan keep money inside the family. Not sweep floor for seven days.

Bingo. Chinese family values will preserve the world to come.

Only problem is Chinese family belongs to the state.

[Publicus]

The intensity and the strict exclusivity of the Chinese nuclear family unit too often produces a child or children that are incompetent in the larger society where they have to deal with people outside the intimate confines of the family, people they don't know and therefore don't trust. This is true in school during the child's early years and later at university and/or in the workplace.

The powerful Chinese family unit militates against the cohesion of the larger society. The rule of law might improve social cohesion and trust, but not by much and not by itself only.

Also, as to the latter point regarding Tibet and Xin Jiang, whose army is going to invade China? No army is going to invade China. It's long past time for the Chinese to tear down their walls.

[LawrenceChee]

I think for that argument to hold true ...you can ask the entire western power to step down and dismantle their army but it will not happen.

I disagree that Chinese families cannot produce socially apt well travelled Chinese. I see in my social circle a good group of educated well traveled Chinese but I am sure se will digress that into an elitist argument

Not everyone is going to turn into a genius ...I see a lot of hardworking blue collar workers in the west ...nothing wrong with emptying bins or sweeping a foodcourt as long as it is honest wages and you are making a living for your family.

[Scott]

Please stay on topic. We have had one poster provide a little insight into how the Chinese psyche works and the social situation in which it functions. That is not the topic and does not need to be debated, although it is useful information. It does, however, help to explain how the people react to events.

.....Now back to the topic.

[dexterm]

Han Chinese have swamped the existing Uighar population and shown no respect for their culture or religion. They used Xinjiang as a testing site for their nuclear weapons possibly killing 200,000 locals with radiation poisoning, and rape the region of its oil and gas resources, offering the locals nothing in return apart from religious and cultural repression.

Why does the Beijing government deliberately antagonize the Uighars, demolishing whole areas of old Kashgar displacing Uighars and turning it into a theme park. In Kashgar they have turned the mosques into tourist attractions with hordes of scantily clad visitors all against the wishes of the locals.

*Quote and link deleted*

During Ramadan students were forbidden to fast and were force fed. Every ten families were collectively punished if it was reported that one had fasted.

“Throughout Ramadan,police intensified a campaign of house-to-house searches, looking for books or clothing that betray “conservative” religious belief among the region’s ethnic Uighurs: women wearing veils were widely detained, and many young men arrested on the slightest pretext, residents say. Students and civil servants were forced to eat instead of fasting, and work or attend classes instead of attending Friday prayers.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/chinas-war-on-terror-becomes-all-out-attack-on-islam-in-xinjiang/2014/09/19/5c5840a4-1aa7-4bb6-bc63-69f6bfba07e9_story.html

Uighars protested this repression in Alaqagha July 18 and Elishku July 28. The police opened fire and killed dozens.

So its no wonder the people are now fighting back with bombs. It all becomes a vicious cycle again.

This all seems so short sighted by the Chinese authorities when they could have the Uighars eating out of their hands if they used just a small portion of the oil royalties to win a few hearts and minds. There are only 9 million Uighars in a China of 1.3 billion. Why not respect their religion and culture.

Restrict Han Chinese migration to educators and medical staff.

Offer cradle to grave free health and education for Uighars

Offer financial incentives for Uighars to establish businesses and gain employment.

Respect their religion and culture.

With just a few simple steps China could have the Uighars looking over the fence at the dictatorships in neighboring stans and making them glad they live in China.

But as always, it will be repression, bullets, retaliation, brutality...madness.

[P45Mustang]

^

Good post.

"During Ramadan students were forbidden to fast and were force fed. Every ten families were collectively punished if it was reported that one had fasted."

Well if that is not somewhat ironic in China I don't know what is.

[P45Mustang]

I've told my Thai wife she must NOT sweep the floor for 7 days.

If it works in China, surely must work in Thailand.