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Immigration raid targets Digital Nomads in Chiang Mai


Jonathan Fairfield

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News just in.

Immigration officials explain why digital nomads released after raid:

"None of them were actually doing anything that could reasonably be described as 'work'. There's no law in Thailand that forbids posing with a Macbook all day, or banging on endlessly about the 'startup' you'll be getting off the ground any day now".

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At the end of the day, excuses and "I think I'm outside the law because..." explanations aside, it's still illegal and there is no visa that suits the digital nomad - as fully outlined here http://www.thethailandlife.com/working-online-thailand

At the end of the day, literally, they were questioned by police then released without charge.

In practice, it seems like the opinion of those that actually have the authority to enforce law in Thailand, differ those of 'The Thailand Life' and those that they consulted (none of whom were Thai lawmakers or enforcers).

Seems to me that it is not considered illegal. It's not like the police tend to try to avoid charging people with illegally working after investing planning and resource in a raid with the purpose of catching illegal workers is it?

Edited by rwdrwdrwd
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At the end of the day they were detained against their will for infractions (not having a passport/ being a digital nomad) that have already been discussed and stated by immigration to not be infractions

But on the plus side, they have the material for a killer new blog post.

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Did you read through this thread before commenting?

Who is complaining about the police or immigration?

Who is operating outside of the bounds of Thai law?

To break it down:

1 - The immigration police raided a co-working space under the suspicion that the people there were working FOR the co-working space.

2 - The people in the co-working space were taken for questioning.

3 - Once it was determined that they were not employed by the co-working space, the people who were questioned were released without charge.

Points to take from this:

  • Nobody is complaining about police or immigration conduct. Beyond a couple of people claiming it is a waste of resource - which, to be fair, it turned out to be.
  • The people in the co-working space were not considered to be operating outside the bounds of Thai law.

Why are you rolling out the 'if you don't like it go elsewhere' comment and defending the police from non existent criticism? They were released without any charges - generally that means the person questioned did nothing wrong.

I think this somes it up nicely.

And does this also pertain to your views regarding the laws of Thailand? That also happen to be officially written.

No comment.

Exactly. I guessed you would either ignore my question or not give a direct answer.

This has been my point all along, because there are probably hundreds, perhaps thousands who share the same attitudes as you do and this is one main reason why the authorities have increased their observations on the activities of farangs in the country. Most of the blame that the Digital Nomads (whatever they’re about or do) hassle of today’s unwanted attention can be attributed to the likes of you and those like you, plus of course that has the knock on affect of eventually creating more hurdles for the rest of us who respect the laws and abide by the imposed Immigration department rules and regulations for foreigners staying in Thailand.

Regarding your belief that paying taxes should not apply to you, have you heard the old saying; the two certainties in life? We pay tax and we die, and sorry to have to make you aware of this; but no one ever escapes either of them.

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At the end of the day they were detained against their will for infractions (not having a passport/ being a digital nomad) that have already been discussed and stated by immigration to not be infractions

But on the plus side, they have the material for a killer new blog post.

And the police have material to try and avoid finding real killers

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Exactly. I guessed you would either ignore my question or not give a direct answer.

This has been my point all along, because there are probably hundreds, perhaps thousands who share the same attitudes as you do and this is one main reason why the authorities have increased their observations on the activities of farangs in the country. Most of the blame that the Digital Nomads (whatever they’re about or do) hassle of today’s unwanted attention can be attributed to the likes of you and those like you, plus of course that has the knock on affect of eventually creating more hurdles for the rest of us who respect the laws and abide by the imposed Immigration department rules and regulations for foreigners staying in Thailand.

Regarding your belief that paying taxes should not apply to you, have you heard the old saying; the two certainties in life? We pay tax and we die, and sorry to have to make you aware of this; but no one ever escapes either of them.

Does the fact that they were released without charge not indicate that the Immigration department consider those they questioned today to be 'respect(ing) the laws and abide by the imposed Immigration department rules and regulations for foreigners staying in Thailand'? Bit of an oversight if not...

In terms of taxes, Thai residents are only liable for tax on foreign income remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned, as with many other countries. Therefore it is quite feasible for taxes not to be a certainty - the saying is a fallacy - well, technicallly they are taxable, but on 30% of zero.

Edited by rwdrwdrwd
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It seems like the police (regular and immigration) were just doing their jobs, what's wrong with that...? It always amazes me the people (I thought to use another word but am opting to stay civil) who always come out here with nothing good to say about Thailand or Thai authorities. If they find it so distasteful to stay within the bounds of Thai law, and they are really here, why don't they leave - go to Cambodia, go home, or anyplace other than here? What about Thai in their own countries? How easy for Thai to go to them, stay, and work? I love Thailand and the Thai people, that's why I'm here.... If I didn't love Thailand and respect its culture I would go elsewhere.

Who cares if it was 'their job,' to harrass foreigners and enforce bad laws? That could be used as an excuse for anything. You get a morality pass because someone else told you to do something crazy or unethical.

And this is about Thailand not somewhere else, sorry your new perfect home is actually pretty <deleted> up.

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Exactly. I guessed you would either ignore my question or not give a direct answer.

This has been my point all along, because there are probably hundreds, perhaps thousands who share the same attitudes as you do and this is one main reason why the authorities have increased their observations on the activities of farangs in the country. Most of the blame that the Digital Nomads (whatever they’re about or do) hassle of today’s unwanted attention can be attributed to the likes of you and those like you, plus of course that has the knock on affect of eventually creating more hurdles for the rest of us who respect the laws and abide by the imposed Immigration department rules and regulations for foreigners staying in Thailand.

Regarding your belief that paying taxes should not apply to you, have you heard the old saying; the two certainties in life? We pay tax and we die, and sorry to have to make you aware of this; but no one ever escapes either of them.

Does the fact that they were released without charge not indicate that the Immigration department consider those they questioned today to be 'respect(ing) the laws and abide by the imposed Immigration department rules and regulations for foreigners staying in Thailand'? Bit of an oversight if not...

In terms of taxes, Thai residents are only liable for tax on foreign income remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned, as with many other countries. Therefore it is quite feasible for taxes not to be a certainty - the saying is a fallacy - well, technicallly they are taxable, but on 30% of zero.

I based my previous post on the comments of one particular poster and saying that it is those with these types of attitudes that are the cause of there being critical observations upon us by the authorities and that in fact these people are not doing themselves or anyone else any favours.

Sure, the said group came out of this lightly, but it now means that these types of outfits that includes all themes of groups will have to be squeaky clean in the future and they will also have to keep a keen eye on the activities on those involved with their groups, because it`s rather like a stack of cards, one goes and the whole lot come tumbling down.

I don`t make the laws in Thailand, neither do I have any influence towards the authorities here, I just abide by them without questioning the rights and the wrongs. What I am doing is given out some good advice, a tip off in fact and for those who don`t heed may find their lifestyles here in Thailand totally disrupted and problematic in the future. Again as I said; those who consider this as BS; it`s up to you.

Edited by Beetlejuice
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I am a "digital nomad" and for the people who are not or who keep saying "set up a company" etc it's all stupid and you know very little.

I pay 0 taxes, and nore do I intend too. I am from a country where if you live outside longer than 6 months you are no longer required to pay tax to them. I don't have to pay anything in Thailand either, great ( I would if I had too, see comment later). The whole idea of setting up a business and doing it "the right way" as many who know nothing about working online is a total joke, it defeats the concept of being a digital nomad.

I work as much or as little as I want, sometime I will do nothing, other days I will put in hours at home. I don't need anybody other than myself, nore do I need to setup a business because money goes straight into my home country bank account, and they don't require me to declare anything. Starting a company and running it through there is so 20th century, get with the times.

Which country are you from?

This no-tax/nomad set up is all fun and games until the day you for example have particularly bad traffic accident that requires significant hospital time (quite likely in Thailand), get serious illness or suddenly lose your money/jobs for whatever reason that has nothing to do with you - what do you do then?

Since you think paying taxes is stupid I guess you are on your own then…

I am willing to put my money on that you would be running back home and claim all benefits/help you can think of. If you are not legally living anywhere or dont have company anywhere, you cannot get insurance for you as far as I know – or can you?

I’m not that stupid to think that nothing bad ever happens to me or my business… life’s a bitch sometimes you know.

Many learn this lesson too late when the s**t already hit the fan... I have seen it too many times in Thailand.

Good luck to you!

Edited by annako
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Another pathetic and pointless immigration raid.

But isn't this what they are supposed to be doing?

Preventing foreigners from working in the country without proper credentials?

BTW, some great posts above.

Edited by ClutchClark
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Which country are you from?

This no-tax/nomad set up is all fun and games until the day you for example have particularly bad traffic accident that requires significant hospital time (quite likely in Thailand), get serious illness or suddenly lose your money/jobs for whatever reason that has nothing to do with you - what do you do then?

Since you think paying taxes is stupid I guess you are on your own then…

I am willing to put my money on that you would be running back home and claim all benefits/help you can think of. If you are not legally living anywhere or dont have company anywhere, you cannot get insurance for you as far as I know – or can you?

I’m not that stupid to think that nothing bad ever happens to me or my business… life’s a bitch sometimes you know.

Many learn this lesson too late when the s**t already hit the fan... I have seen it too many times in Thailand.

Good luck to you!

I have my own travel insruance that covers me for everything. And I don't see what is wrong with claiming benfits back home. When I worked back home, they took income tax from my salary and I didnt have a choice in the matter. I wasent even consulted. If I am allowed to claim benfits ( I don't think I am), I will happily do so. Who would'nt? It's free money.

Life is a game my friend, it's all about how you play it. You are a nice person I assume but the system is a harsh beast that takes no prisonsers. We must do what we can in this life. God speed!

Edited by Harry198
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Which country are you from?

This no-tax/nomad set up is all fun and games until the day you for example have particularly bad traffic accident that requires significant hospital time (quite likely in Thailand), get serious illness or suddenly lose your money/jobs for whatever reason that has nothing to do with you - what do you do then?

Since you think paying taxes is stupid I guess you are on your own then…

I am willing to put my money on that you would be running back home and claim all benefits/help you can think of. If you are not legally living anywhere or dont have company anywhere, you cannot get insurance for you as far as I know – or can you?

I’m not that stupid to think that nothing bad ever happens to me or my business… life’s a bitch sometimes you know.

Many learn this lesson too late when the s**t already hit the fan... I have seen it too many times in Thailand.

Good luck to you!

I have my own travel insruance that covers me for everything. And I don't see what is wrong with claiming benfits back home. When I worked back home, they took income tax from my salary and I didnt have a choice in the matter. I wasent even consulted. If I am allowed to claim benfits ( I don't think I am), I will happily do so. Who would'nt? It's free money.

Life is a game my friend, it's all about how you play it. You are a nice person I assume but the system is a harsh beast that takes no prisonsers. We must do what we can in this life. God speed!

So its ok that you claim benefits when you disagree paying tax that funds exact benefit you want? That to me is called greed. Just for the sake of argument, what if everyone does this? I know life aint always fair and tax is pain in the *** but at least I know if things go really bad - I do not need to worry at all as I am fully covered. Seen too many "know it all" guys in deep s**t because not being legal anywhere.

System may not always seem fair, but you can change it if you think its wrong. Just go play the game, it works way better than moaning about it... or avoiding it.

What's your insurance company? I'd like to know as during my research I did not find any company that offers insurance to person who does not have permanent address in some country (thai tourist visa is not sufficient either). They need to know where to ship you in case s**t hits the fan. This info is in the fine print... and they keep quiet about it.

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So its ok that you claim benefits when you disagree paying tax that funds exact benefit you want?

Eactly, now you see how wrong the whole system is.

There are a few coampies that insure you if you do not have a perm residence. World Nomads being one of the few. Something people living in Thailand on a TV should consider imo

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So its ok that you claim benefits when you disagree paying tax that funds exact benefit you want?

Eactly, now you see how wrong the whole system is.

There are a few coampies that insure you if you do not have a perm residence. World Nomads being one of the few. Something people living in Thailand on a TV should consider imo

Ah ok, so its ok for you to do it but not anyone else. :)

First question World Nomads ask what is your country of permanent residence.

DIRECT FROM WN POLICY: Your country of permanent residence can be defined as the country you would wish to be repatriated to in the event of a medical emergency and where you would be able to then receive long term medical care, if required. You must also be legally defined as a permanent resident (not temporary) of that country and have a residential address that you can refer to within that country.

This same clause is all insurance policies that I have found... but they do keep quiet about it.

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Which country are you from?

This no-tax/nomad set up is all fun and games until the day you for example have particularly bad traffic accident that requires significant hospital time (quite likely in Thailand), get serious illness or suddenly lose your money/jobs for whatever reason that has nothing to do with you - what do you do then?

Since you think paying taxes is stupid I guess you are on your own then…

I am willing to put my money on that you would be running back home and claim all benefits/help you can think of. If you are not legally living anywhere or dont have company anywhere, you cannot get insurance for you as far as I know – or can you?

I’m not that stupid to think that nothing bad ever happens to me or my business… life’s a bitch sometimes you know.

Many learn this lesson too late when the s**t already hit the fan... I have seen it too many times in Thailand.

Good luck to you!

I have my own travel insruance that covers me for everything. And I don't see what is wrong with claiming benfits back home. When I worked back home, they took income tax from my salary and I didnt have a choice in the matter. I wasent even consulted. If I am allowed to claim benfits ( I don't think I am), I will happily do so. Who would'nt? It's free money.

Life is a game my friend, it's all about how you play it. You are a nice person I assume but the system is a harsh beast that takes no prisonsers. We must do what we can in this life. God speed!

You only get from life what you put into it, there are no free rides in this world and there is no bucking the systems. Those who think they can always end up as losers.

My motto is and has always been; when it comes down to the authorities, is to make strides to always let them see what they want to see and to let them hear what they want to hear, that way the system will always work for you and not against you. I have never been in a situation where I have to constantly look over my shoulder or worried about who`s knocking on my door. Everywhere I have ever been I have always left the doors open for me.

There is nothing wrong with claiming benefits for those who are legally entitled to them and yes life is a game, but that game has to be played fairly on all sides and in ways that does not infringe on others and not the I`m all right Jack approach and sod everyone else.

And that`s the way life has to be played if you expect to have credibility and gain respect from people, or in other words, how to make friends and influence people.

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So its ok that you claim benefits when you disagree paying tax that funds exact benefit you want?

Eactly, now you see how wrong the whole system is.

There are a few coampies that insure you if you do not have a perm residence. World Nomads being one of the few. Something people living in Thailand on a TV should consider imo

Ah ok, so its ok for you to do it but not anyone else. smile.png

First question World Nomads ask what is your country of permanent residence.

DIRECT FROM WN POLICY: Your country of permanent residence can be defined as the country you would wish to be repatriated to in the event of a medical emergency and where you would be able to then receive long term medical care, if required. You must also be legally defined as a permanent resident (not temporary) of that country and have a residential address that you can refer to within that country.

This same clause is all insurance policies that I have found... but they do keep quiet about it.

Nice to know, they were too pricy for me anyway. Will need to renew in December, guess I'll stick who I am using now. Thanks for the heads up tho!

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So its ok that you claim benefits when you disagree paying tax that funds exact benefit you want?

Eactly, now you see how wrong the whole system is.

There are a few coampies that insure you if you do not have a perm residence. World Nomads being one of the few. Something people living in Thailand on a TV should consider imo

Ah ok, so its ok for you to do it but not anyone else. smile.png

First question World Nomads ask what is your country of permanent residence.

DIRECT FROM WN POLICY: Your country of permanent residence can be defined as the country you would wish to be repatriated to in the event of a medical emergency and where you would be able to then receive long term medical care, if required. You must also be legally defined as a permanent resident (not temporary) of that country and have a residential address that you can refer to within that country.

This same clause is all insurance policies that I have found... but they do keep quiet about it.

Nice to know, they were too pricy for me anyway. Will need to renew in December, guess I'll stick who I am using now. Thanks for the heads up tho!

I bet this came to you as a surprise - who reads fine print anyways... In insurance company's view you have to be permanent resident of a country, or you are not in fact insured under their travel insurance...

You will find this clause or something similar in every insurance company policy..

There is nothing greedier on this planet than insurance company (they are worse than any government!) and they sure know how to cover their a** and to get you to pay the bill, plus they have an army of lawyers! This clause is just one of them, never take insurance without reading and re-reading the fine print.

Anyways all the best with your chosen lifestyle, I hope life treats you well and fairly.

Edited by annako
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I bet this came to you as a surprise - who reads fine print anyways... In insurance company's view you have to be permanent resident of a country, or you are in fact not insured under their travel insurance...

You will find this clause or something similar in every insurance company policy..

There is nothing greedier on this planet than insurance company (they are worse than any government!) and they sure know how to cover their a** and to get you to pay the bill, plus they have an army of lawyers! This clause is just one of them, never take policy without reading and re-reading the fine print.

Not so much, I have a degree in Economics so know how the world works, but still a good find for other digital nomads looking to get insured.

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If you're breaking the law and stupid enough to do it out in the open you probably deserve the punishment. Digital nomads - whatever the hell that is - often say how they can do their job anywhere. Well why would anyone provoke the authorities by all getting together in the same place to make a mockery of the laws?

They weren't breaking the law hence why they were released without charge and left to go on their way.

A co-working space is just a glorified coffee shop or internet cafe with a fancy name. They are designed for people to check emails or do a little work whilst abroad.

Many people in them would literally be tourists just passing through.

Completely, absolutely and totally agree.

If these fools believe that they are restricted and penalised by the laws, than they should go and start a revolution, otherwise for the present they will be imposed to respect the legal processes.

As I have said many times on TV in the past, the irresponsible actions of these people have the affect of tightening the rules for all of us. Why some people openly flaunt the laws of Thailand on the social media and at public meetings beats me?

So you'll never of indulged in prostitution in Thailand which is not only illegal but also wrong on so many other levels?

Strange that there's so many older guys on the TVF so outraged at some guy sitting on his laptop in a coffee shop, minding his own business, doing his thing online and not affecting anyone, doing anything wrong, not taking jobs away from locals, not getting any benefits from Thailand and putting money into the country.

Yet if I had to guess many of these older guys themselves regularly break an actual REAL life law by using the services of prostitutes. Not saying you do but lets be honest a vast majority of the older guys that come to Thailand do so for cheap sex.

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Not satisfied with tanking tourist numbers, authorities now take at aim at geeks.

I can hardly think of a group of people that are less trouble to a society and less intrusive.

But to offend and harass them is a huge mistake. These people are connected, often to dozens of forums, social media platforms and know very well how to get a message out, to quite literally millions of people. And what will that message be?

Thailand used to be cool. But its not anymore. Too many goons.

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How stupid these people must be to go to a place that tells immigration "come here and find dozen or illegal workers"...

Work from home or your hotel, retarded !

Charming advice...

Better still, go to luxuriant Ubud in Bali, or Cambodia. The Philippines has some totally exotic locations - cheap too. Sri Lanka is studded with some spectacular locations. And you won't have to look over your shoulder or lock yourself up in your hotel room to write emails.

You'd think that authorities would be delighted that people have actually found a reason to stay in Chaing Mai. Let's be realistic, it has its charms, but its not exactly exotic or interesting.

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I'm just curious... where do so-called digital nomads pay taxes? In the clients' country, their home country, or their server's country?

Depends on where they have their company.. Most would have to start the company in their home country and pay the taxes there.. Anything else would be illegal in most cases (paying no tax at all . or having an "offshore company"). In some cases I guess an offshore company would be legal.. And then tax would be paid in that country.

What a load of nonsense.

1. You don't need to set up a company. You can work as an individual, as most digital nomads do.

2. It is not illegal to get income and not pay tax anywhere. Many people do it and it's completely legal. e.g. For a UK citizen you can leave the UK and become non-resident for tax purposes, so you don't need to pay any tax on your income. Spend 4 months each in 3 different countries and you won't be liable for taxes in any of them. That is the reality. There is nothing at all illegal about it. Depends on the countries and the tax rules, but most countries won't tax you if you're there for less than 6 months. Many won't tax you if income is derived from outside the country.

1. In my home country Sweden people need to register as a company.. I assume it's the same in most countries.. Even if the company is only a 1 person company.

2. Didn't know that... Seems like Sweden is insane as usual... can i become a UK resident? smile.png

in most western countries the individual has been incorporated since the day their birth certificate was issued.

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Not saying you do but lets be honest a vast majority of the older guys that come to Thailand do so for cheap sex.

It might seem that way if you hang out in the wrong bars, but I don't think that's really true. I know plenty that didn't.

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