New rules for ED visa

[MacWalen]

my wife is on a one year ED-Visa, so there is a lot trouble now.

Correct, ED visa holders are scrutinised more these days. If immigration thinks they are not genuine students that may not get an extension, or just get a short one.

[MacWalen]

I think many foreigners will do - means leaving the country / even if not because of the ED-Visa - and if this is the Thai government policy, up to them.

It is obvious that Thai authorities don't want foreigners to live in Thailand permanently accept few cases like retirees. They are making staying here difficult precisely for this reason. It will have very little effect on the GDP.

[MacWalen]

There are much nicer and cheaper places in SEA to spend time and money.

I am not sure if that is true, like where? Don't tell me Malaysia truly Asia is much nicer. Cambodia? Vietnam? Myanmar? Laos? Indonesia? Philippines? Any of those countries is much nicer? I think that is the big problem for most, we like Thailand the best and we want to live here. Those other countries don't cut it. At least not for me and I have spent time in all of them. They are ok to visit but not ok enough to want to live there long term or retire. Thailand is the best overall.

[bbi1]

It is obvious that Thai authorities don't want foreigners to live in Thailand permanently accept few cases like retirees. They are making staying here difficult precisely for this reason. It will have very little effect on the GDP.

Makes you wonder why they don't want young people to stay in the country....

Continuing from my post here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/781616-1-year-ed-visa-nope-its-not-true-anymore/

Seems BKK & Phuket don't have 1 year ED Visas anymore. Would be good to hear from Walen the forum sponsor what he has to say. According to his site 1 year ED visas are still on:

Students who enroll at our school in a one year course are eligible to apply for a one year non-immigrant ED visa. With this visa you do not have to leave Thailand every now and then but can stay here continually for one year.

It is possible that students do two courses of 6 months in duration one after another. According to the present law they are not required to leave the country after 6 months if they continue their studies so they can stay here one year straight on an ED visa if they continue learning. After one year they will need to leave Thailand and apply for a new ED visa.

Walen School

This is opposite of what the manager of Language Express had told me. Two different schools with two different answers. No real clarity from immigration about the rules & ED visa students wondering where they stand these days.

[PMak]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

As an alternative, you may want to consider signing up for a course at a university and get an ED visa that way. I'm looking into this. My understanding is that this is more accepted by Immigration than the private language schools. And if I'm not wrong, the new rules about having to extend your stay every 3 months and having to leave the country and re-apply for a new ED visa do not apply to universities.

Let me know what you find out!

double entry tourist visa, 2k baht from laos consulate, each entry worth 60 days stay extendable to 90, google it for more details

From what I have read is that immigration is now cracking down on those too. Even if you get the visa at an embassy you can be denied entry or get an I-O stamp or other remark. Someone in another post mentioned that the rule is you can only have 3 tourist visas in a year.

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My two cents:

- Learning Thai is not easy. The way the schools teach you don't make it exactly easy either. I would say you need at least 3 years to be able to hold an intelligent conversation. I know several "fluent" Farangs and it took them years and they are still learning and making mistakes. And they have a Thai wife that they can practice with daily. Personally I find the tones challenging and after learning for 1 year I am now needing to relearn. Reading and writing script is key to properly learning Thai. I would say private lessons or a tutor is key to really progressing. If you are fluent in Thai after just 1 year, kudos to you. You should sign up for full on citizenship and learn Pali while you're at it.

- Education Visa Abuse. It's a real shame that the ED Visa abuse, if that's the real reason, is causing the crackdown, and putting the rest of us who are here to learn, (not working, not doing anything unlawful), into this mess.

- Ever changing "Rules". Change can be good or bad, and you know I support cracking down on abuse, however when rules change, there should be a buffer time of some sort. Grandfathering of visas, or some way of letting those of us who planned a year or two ahead, cope with the change. I get it, we should all have a Plan B is what some say, true, and with the rate of changes we need Plan C, D, E, and F. And I hope I don't have to us the "F" Plan. Seriously though, coming to Thailand for 1 or 2 years is no easy task and one plans ahead, rents accommodations, buys vehicles, electronics, etc etc, and then whamo.... Visa Problems.... When a 1 year visa turns into 6 months, or your 2nd year suddenly becomes 90 days or is refused, that's a serious problem and stress. Easy to say "oh get a tourist visa" or "should have planned ahead" or "should have gotten a <fill in the blank> visa".

[nasa123]

The immigration order limits extensions to one year not 6 months. If you can get the documents from the MOE you can keep getting the extension for the full year. The only entity mentioned in this topic has been the MOE and they do not do extensions.

[nasa123]

Continuing from my post here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/781616-1-year-ed-visa-nope-its-not-true-anymore/

Seems BKK & Phuket don't have 1 year ED Visas anymore. Would be good to hear from Walen the forum sponsor what he has to say. According to his site 1 year ED visas are still on:

Students who enroll at our school in a one year course are eligible to apply for a one year non-immigrant ED visa. With this visa you do not have to leave Thailand every now and then but can stay here continually for one year.

It is possible that students do two courses of 6 months in duration one after another. According to the present law they are not required to leave the country after 6 months if they continue their studies so they can stay here one year straight on an ED visa if they continue learning. After one year they will need to leave Thailand and apply for a new ED visa.

Walen School

[Robert24]

@PMak: re more information about universities. Many universities offer courses you can sign up for and get an ED visa for it. And no need to renew every 90 days and leave the country every year.

I'm considering Payap University here in Chiang Mai, but many other options in other provinces as well. Here's the link to the courses they offer:

http://ic.payap.ac.th/certificate/

[jonnyramone]

Sadly the ED visa has been widely abused for many years, now it's getting harder and harder for genuine students who want to study in Thailand.

To be honest , 80 % of foreigners getting the ED visa don't really care about learning thai...They don't even attend the courses . They just need a way to stay in the Kingdom one year in a row. We all know that , and authorities know it too...That's the reason for the new restrictions.

In my opinion, tourist visa is much safer than ED, now more than before. At least police won't stop you at the airport checking your language skills.

[ritoyenne]

my wife is on a one year ED-Visa, so there is a lot trouble now.

Correct, ED visa holders are scrutinised more these days. If immigration thinks they are not genuine students that may not get an extension, or just get a short one.

How about skype lessons at wallen school ?

What about the ED visa holders who attend skype lessons, living far away from their school ?

How does wallen school manage to report their attendance ? I know for sure that for the moment there were no change for them.

Can I know more ? I know a certain number of your students are in this case.

Edited December 6, 2014 by ritoyenne

[nasa123]

My school are in Phuket, and today they put a paper from MOE on the wall in Thai and english, you can call to the school and ask them. You think i writhing this for fun..

http://www.phuket-language-school.com

As you are going to classes every day Monday to Friday I would be grateful if you photographed that paper tomorrow and posted it in this topic.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Maestro
fixed quote tags

[bbi1]

my wife is on a one year ED-Visa, so there is a lot trouble now.

Correct, ED visa holders are scrutinised more these days. If immigration thinks they are not genuine students that may not get an extension, or just get a short one.

How about skype lessons at wallen school ?

What about the ED visa holders who attend skype lessons, living far away from their school ?

How does wallen school manage to report their attendance ? I know for sure that for the moment there were no change for them.

Can I know more ? I know a certain number of your students are in this case.

Could you really call that attending a class though? They haven't left their house at all. How is immigration able to do these "spot checks" of attendance that I've read about happening?

[freedomnow]

I had my first extension (3-month mark) on Thursday and he told me to come back for next extension(month 6-9 period of 1 year) in March. I received my visa prior to the changes in Early September, so confused as to what will happen in March.

This entire visa system is a fiasco. i think not one country in the world is amending their visa rules as fast as the current power base here.

Total lack of consistency of regulation enforcement and information at borders/immigration offices/information from schools.

You pay on the basis of 1 year's study and then they just rip everything up. No integrity whatsoever.

Edited December 7, 2014 by freedomnow

[jonnyramone]

I had my first extension (3-month mark) on Thursday and he told me to come back for next extension(month 6-9 period of 1 year) in March. I received my visa prior to the changes in Early September, so confused as to what will happen in March.

This entire visa system is a fiasco. i think not one country in the world is amending their visa rules as fast as the current power base here.

Total lack of consistency of regulation enforcement and information at borders/immigration offices/information from schools.

You pay on the basis of 1 year's study and then they just rip everything up. No integrity whatsoever.

They change laws/rules "in the twinkling of an eye" , this is the most frustrating thing... the fact of knowing that everything here is never 100 % sure . Be prepared about anything in March.

[joepattaya1961]

There is not one single school in Thailand, not even the Police Academy, who will "give" you a visa.

They will assist you in getting an ED-visa and they will assist you in getting the yearly (of half-yearly) extensions.

And as long as you and your school comply with the requirements as stated on the MFA website, you'll be able to stay in Thailand up to 10 years based on "study".

[Maestro]

New Ed.jpeg

The immigration order limits extensions to one year not 6 months. If you can get the documents from the MOE you can keep getting the extension for the full year. The only entity mentioned in this topic has been the MOE and they do not do extensions.

Thank you for posting the photo, nasa123. I was hoping the document would be in both Thai and English, but perhaps somebody here will give a rough translation.

[bbi1]

I had my first extension (3-month mark) on Thursday and he told me to come back for next extension(month 6-9 period of 1 year) in March. I received my visa prior to the changes in Early September, so confused as to what will happen in March.

This entire visa system is a fiasco. i think not one country in the world is amending their visa rules as fast as the current power base here.

Total lack of consistency of regulation enforcement and information at borders/immigration offices/information from schools.

You pay on the basis of 1 year's study and then they just rip everything up. No integrity whatsoever.

Probably best be prepared when you come in March that they could say no you can't extend & need to leave the country after your initial 6 months & re-apply for another ED visa for an additional 6 months again. It's like Russian Roulette these days.

[ritoyenne]

my wife is on a one year ED-Visa, so there is a lot trouble now.

Correct, ED visa holders are scrutinised more these days. If immigration thinks they are not genuine students that may not get an extension, or just get a short one.

How about skype lessons at wallen school ?

What about the ED visa holders who attend skype lessons, living far away from their school ?

How does wallen school manage to report their attendance ? I know for sure that for the moment there were no change for them.

Can I know more ? I know a certain number of your students are in this case.

Could you really call that attending a class though? They haven't left their house at all. How is immigration able to do these "spot checks" of attendance that I've read about happening?

Yes I could call this "attending" a class. An online class. In my former group (at wallen) we were 6 or 7 people, and the teacher was very good, and people always attended classes. I learnt a lot with online skype lessons. It's almost the same, but you have to do the writing execises seriously at home. Homework quoi.

But I don't know also how it's possible to continue these lessons, given that it's said that immigration check attendance now. It's not compatible.

That's why I worry about these people, who learn thai on skype, have same ED-visa as everybody, and pay the same ammount to walen than everybody.

But when I asked the question, mister walen called me an idiot, and the message was deleted.

[MacWalen]

That's why I worry about these people

Thanks mate for worrying so much about other people. So very nice of you.

[Maestro]

I had my first extension (3-month mark) on Thursday and he told me to come back for next extension(month 6-9 period of 1 year) in March. I received my visa prior to the changes in Early September, so confused as to what will happen in March.

It must be difficult for schools and students. When the new Police Order 327/2557, effective 29 August 2014, was issued everything seemed clear about the extension for non-formal study: 90 days for each extension, maximum one year of stay for studying, after which period the student must get a new non-ED visa. The word "maximum" is critical, of course. Limiting the maximum stay to six months does not contravene the rule of "maximum one year". However, it would be the immigration office to impose this limit, not the Ministry of Education (MOE)

This is the point where we get confronted with the unfathomable mystery of bureaucracy. One document to be submitted with the application for the 90-day extension, as per clause 2.9 of Immigration Bureau Order 138/2557, if the "Confirmation letter issued by a government agency at the departmental level or by the Provincial Governor in charge of that particular institution (except in the case of enrollment in an international school or in the case of higher education)". Therefore, if the "government agency at the departmental level", in the case presented in this topic the regional education office in Phuket, refuses to issue the confirmation letter when a student has already been in the country six months since his last entry with a non-ED visa, the student cannot meet the requirements for the extension and the immigration office has no choice but to deny the application.

[freedomnow]

I had my first extension (3-month mark) on Thursday and he told me to come back for next extension(month 6-9 period of 1 year) in March. I received my visa prior to the changes in Early September, so confused as to what will happen in March.

This entire visa system is a fiasco. i think not one country in the world is amending their visa rules as fast as the current power base here.

Total lack of consistency of regulation enforcement and information at borders/immigration offices/information from schools.

You pay on the basis of 1 year's study and then they just rip everything up. No integrity whatsoever.

Probably best be prepared when you come in March that they could say no you can't extend & need to leave the country after your initial 6 months & re-apply for another ED visa for an additional 6 months again. It's like Russian Roulette these days.

No, I'll just get a double tourist visa. Not worth the hassle.

Cheaper all-in as well if this 6 months and out rule is enforced on all students who got their visa before the new rule....

[Markphuket]

I had my first extension (3-month mark) on Thursday and he told me to come back for next extension(month 6-9 period of 1 year) in March. I received my visa prior to the changes in Early September, so confused as to what will happen in March.

This entire visa system is a fiasco. i think not one country in the world is amending their visa rules as fast as the current power base here.

Total lack of consistency of regulation enforcement and information at borders/immigration offices/information from schools.

You pay on the basis of 1 year's study and then they just rip everything up. No integrity whatsoever.

Probably best be prepared when you come in March that they could say no you can't extend & need to leave the country after your initial 6 months & re-apply for another ED visa for an additional 6 months again. It's like Russian Roulette these days.

No, I'll just get a double tourist visa. Not worth the hassle.

Cheaper all-in as well if this 6 months and out rule is enforced on all students who got their visa before the new rule....

I will be doing exactly the same, not worth the hassle.......... plus you can pay all that money for your lessons and what stopping your school going bust in the next year losing your money and your visa. Well documented some school will and we all know, no refunds especially if they your at a school that has to close down.

Im going home for some of low season, then back on tourist visa.......... not because its cheaper, just because i have zero trust now in the ed visa

[nasa123]

New Ed.jpeg

The immigration order limits extensions to one year not 6 months. If you can get the documents from the MOE you can keep getting the extension for the full year. The only entity mentioned in this topic has been the MOE and they do not do extensions.

Thank you for posting the photo, nasa123. I was hoping the document would be in both Thai and English, but perhaps somebody here will give a rough translation.

This they writhing in English the school: Important!!! We have to update you that the new lesson time tequired forthe holder of a Non-Immigrant ED visa has now been changed to 2 hours per day and 4 days per week. So whith the course time of 200 hours, Your visa will now finish within 6 months.This means you will have to do a visa-run to apply for a new visa every 6 months.

[Incobart]

This they writhing in English the school: Important!!! We have to update you that the new lesson time tequired forthe holder of a Non-Immigrant ED visa has now been changed to 2 hours per day and 4 days per week. So whith the course time of 200 hours, Your visa will now finish within 6 months.This means you will have to do a visa-run to apply for a new visa every 6 months.

??

6 months = 26 weeks times 8 hours .. is more then 200 hours in my calculation

[ColdSingha]

This they writhing in English the school: Important!!! We have to update you that the new lesson time tequired forthe holder of a Non-Immigrant ED visa has now been changed to 2 hours per day and 4 days per week. So whith the course time of 200 hours, Your visa will now finish within 6 months.This means you will have to do a visa-run to apply for a new visa every 6 months.

??

6 months = 26 weeks times 8 hours .. is more then 200 hours in my calculation

thats why it says:

Your visa will now finish within 6 months

[paz]

thats why it says:

Your visa will now finish within 6 months

I think you mean "your paid course", not visa. However it has yet be seen how things will go in practice in the different areas.

[bapak]

Agree, Krey.

We have an official letter from Ministry of Education dated yesterday to the contrary.

That's even better than a photo of the letter. Would you be so kind as to scan the letter you have and post it here?

MOE Letter and unverified translation.

The confusion seems to be about.."... and to finish each curriculum not longer than 6 months".

And that is what it means... i.e. Basic Thai 6 months.. the continue Elementary Thai 6 months. That is one year. Then you have to leave Thailand to get new Ed Visa to continue to next curriculum and so on.

MOE 6 months09014.pdf

MOE Letter translation.pdf

[ubonjoe]

There is nothing in the letter from the MOE saying you cannot get another extension after the first 6 months.

Perhaps a misreading of this.

"If any school does not submit an official form to change of study schedule to your

local Education Commission by the 30 December 2014, then we need to cancel application to apply for

Non-Immigration ED VISA to your student."

[Incobart]

This they writhing in English the school: Important!!! We have to update you that the new lesson time tequired forthe holder of a Non-Immigrant ED visa has now been changed to 2 hours per day and 4 days per week. So whith the course time of 200 hours, Your visa will now finish within 6 months.This means you will have to do a visa-run to apply for a new visa every 6 months.

??

6 months = 26 weeks times 8 hours .. is more then 200 hours in my calculation

thats why it says:

Your visa will now finish within 6 months

so sorry, I misread ed .. not within 6 m.. instead of now within 6 m

[Maestro]

This they writhing in English the school: Important!!! We have to update you that the new lesson time tequired forthe holder of a Non-Immigrant ED visa has now been changed to 2 hours per day and 4 days per week. So whith the course time of 200 hours, Your visa will now finish within 6 months.This means you will have to do a visa-run to apply for a new visa every 6 months.

Your school got the English summary of the letter they received almost correct, but arrived at the wrong conclusion.

1. The schools must change the curriculum in such manner that students are required to study not less than fours days per week, not less than two hours per session.

2. Each course of study must be completed within six months.

3. If a school fails to submit the official form confirming the change of the study schedule to the Regional Office of Non-formal Education (for which I suggest the acronym RONE, for brevity) by 30 December 2014, the office will no longer issue the letter required by the students of this school for the application for an extension of stay for the reason of study at the immigration office.

Consequently, if your school revises the curriculum as requested and if you enroll for the next course of study, the RONE will not need to refuse the letter for the immigration office, if all other documents from the school are in order.