Jump to content
BANGKOK

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Tywais

Smoke, Smog, Dust 2015 Chiang Mai

Recommended Posts

Which ever direction the wind blows from will be the cause of CM pollution in your opinion. Sorry, but you need to look a bit closer to home. Good luck in your search for double glazing, but I think you might have a problem getting the rose tinted finish.

I expected better from you MES!

One more time, I do not dispute the existence of local burning, the extent of it nor it's impact.

But the larger picture is somewhat more complicated and involves thermals, imported pollution and the inversion layer in addition to home grown burning, listening to many posters here it seems there is only one answer, home grown pollution, I do not agree even a little bit.

I am sure some blows in from other areas, but from my experience flying around forest fires in the Pacific Northwest, if you eliminate the fires within 100 km of Chiang Mai, the PM10 levels would never get very high here. The government likes to blame it on other countries as that allows them to ignore all the Thai Nationals that are in the forest setting fires (including tonight) for mushroom season or for agricultural clearing. The air was quite clear this afternoon so I fail to see how much of it is coming from far away, but I will keep an open mind CM.

Long may your mind stay that way!

But to be clear: in no way shape or form is my view a copy of any government view, my expectation here is that free thinking individuals, plus a couple of non-thinkers, will combine to conclude, insofar as it is possible to do so, the cause and potential remedies to the pollution issue in CM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, I can't help it: Remove rice from the list of essential global grain crops ?! blink.png

Just trying to lighten things up a little, not to be nasty! Just a little black humor!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MES usually has some commonsensical observations that do indeed make sense. Observations, of course, are at the heart of the scientific analysis.

CM, as you have pointed out, it is true that the problem is a regional problem and that the prevailing wind at this time of the year is basically the SW monsoon. And, as you have pointed out, from there is does indeed get complicated.

We don't have enough good data and knowledge of particle behavior. We don't know how high, how far, and how long PM<10 and, especially PM<2.5 particles fly before settling out. We do know that lighter particles tend to stay aloft longer than heavier particles.

I think you agree that it is reasonable to hypothesize that local conditions have significantly more impact than relatively distant effects. I think that is what MES is generally saying. I agree with him.

An example would be today. For yesterday, FIRMS reported the greatest number of local fires so far this year. (FIRMS, for newcomers, really only reports the more extensive fires, and the satellites don't park above our valley or NW Thailand all day.) This morning it looked like Beijing out there! Really nasty! That, of course, doesn't preclude the impact of Burmese smoke, but think about it! Look at MES' post #157 (and similar ones in the past). I wouldn't be terribly upset about what he reports.

Yes, there is certainly "something" (as you put it) in the SW monsoon, but I agree with MES that one should look closer to home for the major impact.

Now, just to change the topic for a moment, which way are bond yields going to go in 2015?

Cheers!

I want to agree with your statement but I'm unsure as evidenced by, "We don't know how high, how far, and how long PM<10 and, especially PM<2.5 particles fly before settling out. We do know that lighter particles tend to stay aloft longer than heavier particles".

Bond yields, that's easy, down and out is the clear answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MES usually has some commonsensical observations that do indeed make sense. Observations, of course, are at the heart of the scientific analysis.

CM, as you have pointed out, it is true that the problem is a regional problem and that the prevailing wind at this time of the year is basically the SW monsoon. And, as you have pointed out, from there is does indeed get complicated.

We don't have enough good data and knowledge of particle behavior. We don't know how high, how far, and how long PM<10 and, especially PM<2.5 particles fly before settling out. We do know that lighter particles tend to stay aloft longer than heavier particles.

I think you agree that it is reasonable to hypothesize that local conditions have significantly more impact than relatively distant effects. I think that is what MES is generally saying. I agree with him.

An example would be today. For yesterday, FIRMS reported the greatest number of local fires so far this year. (FIRMS, for newcomers, really only reports the more extensive fires, and the satellites don't park above our valley or NW Thailand all day.) This morning it looked like Beijing out there! Really nasty! That, of course, doesn't preclude the impact of Burmese smoke, but think about it! Look at MES' post #157 (and similar ones in the past). I wouldn't be terribly upset about what he reports.

Yes, there is certainly "something" (as you put it) in the SW monsoon, but I agree with MES that one should look closer to home for the major impact.

Now, just to change the topic for a moment, which way are bond yields going to go in 2015?

Cheers!

I want to agree with your statement but I'm unsure as evidenced by, "We don't know how high, how far, and how long PM<10 and, especially PM<2.5 particles fly before settling out. We do know that lighter particles tend to stay aloft longer than heavier particles".

Bond yields, that's easy, down and out is the clear answer.

Responding to Part One: Well, we DON'T know everything about the nature of airborne particles!

Responding to Part Two: <removed>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some recent quotes have been altered in bold/underline. This is not permitted under forum etiquette and have been edited back to the standard format.

2. Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording. Such posts will be deleted and the user warned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not a scientist and i don't think much before i type but i have noticed during the last week that when the wind blows for a few hours the CM pollution and visibility improve significantly enough for me to jump on my bike and get some exercise whilst i can. When the wind isn't blowing

the visibility is worse and the pollution appears to be much worse.

If the pollution is being blown in from elsewhere like Burma wouldn't the pollution be worse on a day with winds and the better air quality would be on calm days? This would be opposite of what i observe though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which ever direction the wind blows from will be the cause of CM pollution in your opinion. Sorry, but you need to look a bit closer to home. Good luck in your search for double glazing, but I think you might have a problem getting the rose tinted finish.

This is necessary to maintain the balance in the universe. Somewhere there is a Burmese equivalent of the thaivisa forum, and on that forum somebody is posting that the problem is caused by the remote burning in Thailand. Perhaps there is even somebody in China also posting that.

It is however possible, I guess. I have often thought it would serve as a great subject for a master's thesis, or perhaps even a decent Ph.d., to attempt to quantify the amount of pm 2.5 / pm 10 mass that is produced here locally, versus blown in from other countries. No idea how that could be done, nor have I given it any thought, but that is what research is for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where in Chiang Mai do I buy 3M filter material? I read someone had fitted these to their air-con models.

I have some air filters where I can no longer buy refills. But they're really simple devices, if I had some 3M filter material I could just cut it to size and put it in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where in Chiang Mai do I buy 3M filter material? I read someone had fitted these to their air-con models.

I have some air filters where I can no longer buy refills. But they're really simple devices, if I had some 3M filter material I could just cut it to size and put it in.

Home Pro had them last I checked, but that was a while ago. Fyi, we did the exact same thing on our air filters and they run fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was up near the summit of Doi Pui this morning. Met a young Thai jogger at the Ban Doi Pui viewpoint & we got chatting about the smoke. After a short while he came out with the "actually, most of the smoke comes from Myanmar" line facepalm.gif

His English was perfect, so I guess he was one of the bright ones.

Tempted to pick him up & throw him over the cliff whistling.gif

Just kidding. He did agree that there's too much burning in Thailand & that the rural poor need educating about the effects of the smoke, but that "blame it on the neighbours" line w00t.gif

Btw, the ridge of Inthanon was clear, just the lower bits to the east obscured by smoke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes cobber, since 2001, i have that heard that myarmar line a thousand times,and throw LAOS in as well

have permamently resided out in beverly hills. mae rim for 10 yrs, i have eyewitnessed all types of burning,some which would, rock anybodys socks off

done the masei border visa runs countless times during this period,and have seen the early morning horizons during my travels up north a canopy of red

this unkindly deed has to be weeded out first in the north,( plus lampang and tak)but alas i have more chance in winning another cup double,then this occurringbiggrin.png

quite a few years back,this kings rain making plane, did the trick, in equal horrid conditions that we are all exoeriencing now, so at reasonable odds i put a nice number on it to bring rain

a nice evening to allsmile.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where in Chiang Mai do I buy 3M filter material? I read someone had fitted these to their air-con models.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/712647-those-high-tech-air-con-filters/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/806480-home-ac-filters/

Thanks!! I didn't realize this has been answered a few times already in this thread, my apologies. Will try Baan & Beyond and then that place on wualai road. I'm only here for 1 more week but next burning season is a certainty, can't hurt to stock up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...