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12 dead in attack on Paris newspaper; France goes on alert


webfact

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Show me where I have excused this act of vandalism.

What evidence do you have, other than the headlines which are later contradicted in the actual articles, that this act was committed by Muslims?

Edited by 7by7
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Morch, you asked a specific question about a specific issue. You did not ask who was responsible for these murders.

That you don't like the truth is your problem, not mine; but I thought better of you.

Please don't descend to the pathetic levels of certain posters.

If Muslims who support, publicly or privately, these murders and similar atrocities are the majority, or even a significant minority, why is it that the only evidence of this support comes from fringe elements like the Pakistani cleric or terrorist organisations?

Why is it that the majority of comments on this atrocity from Muslims the world over is condemnation?

Why is it that the majority of Muslims worldwide condemn the terrorist organisations?

Don't believe me? Do a bit of research.

Something the disciples of the failed comedian Condell wont do as they know in their hearts it will prove Condell to be the same as that Pakistani cleric; a man who spreads hate and division for his own ends. In Condell's case a pathetic desire for publicity since his career in comedy, such as it was, went down the toilet.

I suspect that the Pakistani cleric has similar failure issues leading to a similar need for publicity.

I have raised several questions, so not quite sure which one you are replying to (this apparently being a failed experiment in mega-topics, kinda makes it hard to follow without proper quoting). If this was a reference to the Jewish community thing, then it is agreed that many minority groups try to get concessions and privileges to suit their needs and wishes. The difference lies with the "same scope" and "similarly aggressive" qualifying bits included in the original post.

As for statements being representative of views and their relative share in the population - the point being made is that what you term as "fringe" is first of all quite a lot of "fringes" when one stops on insisting to see them as isolated cases. Secondly, "fringe" is in the eye of the beholder - in many parts of the Muslim World, the views expressed by such bodies as the Muslim Council of Britain would be considered "fringe". I daresay that demographic wise, the Muslim Council of Britain represents a few millions at best (with the assumption that all Muslims in the UK are of one mind on this). Not, on the whole, a very impressive number vs. the total number of Muslims, or even the number of Muslims in some of them so-called "fringe" areas.

No idea how one counts comments and how one asserts their demographic equivalence. My guess would be that this often relies on English language statements made in main stream and social media. This almost certainly leaves off a sizable portion of alternative responses. In that manner, each protest is counted as a single headline rather than a mass of statement, each incident accorded the same status (saying the attacks were wrong vs. burning of churches and further killing in Niger).

You keep asking why the majority of Muslims do this, or that....without actually demonstrating that there is a majority behind these claims. It is not a matter of "believing you", but more to do with a case not being demonstrated properly. Calling others to do "more research" in order to unseat unfounded claims should not be considered seriously. My own view being that most of the attempts to assert what the majority of Muslims feel and think is an exercise in futility, and that this cuts both ways. There is no good methodology of putting this to any kind of reliable test.

As mentioned in the past, not a Condell fanboy. That said, equating him with the Pakistani cleric or with Choudary is a bit of a stretch, and that's putting it very mildly. Some proportions will benefit this topic.

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I just downloaded French evening news from 19 jan 20h and saw some anti Charlie Hebdo manifestation in Afghanistan where they were burning Sarkozy's photograph and an ITALIAN flag whistling.gif

But they know about a 60.000 a week canard issue (canard or duck is what we call a satirical paper in France) showing an idiot disguised into a prophet, Jeez, what's the colors of France and the name of the idiot president they have again?

Edited by tartempion
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<snip>

So my question is this: If Islam is not the root cause of these frequent attacks and this brand of terrorism in our modern day, then what is the cause?

Is Islam the cause of Islamic terrorism?

The simple answer is, of course, yes; just as the simple answer to the cause of terrorism by, for example, the Lord's Resistance Army is Christianity.

But it is more complicated than that.

No one blames Christianity for the LRA,. Their brand of Christianity is not that practised by the vast majority of Christians.

Equally the cause of Islamic terrorism is not Islam as practised by the vast majority of Muslims.

As has been shown many, many times by the quotes from Muslim governments, Muslim scholars, Muslim clerics, Muslim organisations and ordinary law abiding individual Muslims all condemning the terrorists as un Islamic.

That some terrorists are Muslim does not mean that all Muslims are terrorists; even though some members here, and the hate sites they regularly quote from, would have us believe otherwise.

Morch, you, as ever, raise some interesting points which I, unfortunately, do not have time right now to address. Allow me to get back to you.

Edited by 7by7
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I see that as ever the haters and Islamaphobes are taking one small part of what I have said out of context and instead of trying to disprove what I have said merely throwing out the usual insults.

Let them; I know now that rational argument will not overcome their ignorance.

I know now that they are not even interested in rational argument.

I know now that they really believe that because some Muslims are terrorist then all Muslims must be, or at least support them.

One last point, though.

Eyewitnesses to the desecration of the statue of the Virgin Mary described those responsible as 'foreigners.'

Not Muslim, not Asian, not African, not black, brown, yellow, pink, any colour; merely foreigners.

I asked before if there was any evidence at all to indicate that they were Muslim.

None has been provided.

Despite this, the haters automatically assume that they were Muslim.

Says all one needs to know about those haters.

Sorry, Morch, I wont be engaging in the rational discussion I promised you; as usual the haters have taken over this topic to preach their hate; I'm sick of it.

But I don't hate the haters; I simply pity them for their hate and ignorance.

As a man revered as the Son of God by Christians and as a holy prophet by Muslims once said "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

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I see that as ever the haters and Islamaphobes are taking one small part of what I have said out of context and instead of trying to disprove what I have said merely throwing out the usual insults.

Let them; I know now that rational argument will not overcome their ignorance.

I know now that they are not even interested in rational argument.

Is that what you call deflecting attention from Jihad, never mentioning the koran and the prophets influence, pointing the finger at others and several stock excuses such as lone nutters, not real Muslims and the good old majority of moderates who don't agree with jihad, sharia or even Islam it seems, and who you claim are forever condemning violence. Also, of course you completely making up Biblical 'laws' on wife beating. Personally I don't find you arguments rational at all. I find them apologistic head in the sand drivel

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