7by7 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Show me where I have excused this act of vandalism. What evidence do you have, other than the headlines which are later contradicted in the actual articles, that this act was committed by Muslims? Edited January 19, 2015 by 7by7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Steely Dan Posted January 19, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 19, 2015 Morch, you asked a specific question about a specific issue. You did not ask who was responsible for these murders. That you don't like the truth is your problem, not mine; but I thought better of you. Please don't descend to the pathetic levels of certain posters. If Muslims who support, publicly or privately, these murders and similar atrocities are the majority, or even a significant minority, why is it that the only evidence of this support comes from fringe elements like the Pakistani cleric or terrorist organisations? Why is it that the majority of comments on this atrocity from Muslims the world over is condemnation? Why is it that the majority of Muslims worldwide condemn the terrorist organisations? Don't believe me? Do a bit of research. Something the disciples of the failed comedian Condell wont do as they know in their hearts it will prove Condell to be the same as that Pakistani cleric; a man who spreads hate and division for his own ends. In Condell's case a pathetic desire for publicity since his career in comedy, such as it was, went down the toilet. I suspect that the Pakistani cleric has similar failure issues leading to a similar need for publicity. Four people were burnt to death in Niger, a former French colony. Palestinians burned the French flag, even though the French recognized the Palestinian terror statelet. The 'fringe elements' in Pakistan protesting against the cartoons numbered 10,000.You are assailed from all directions by facts so clear and so indisputable that only the most monumentally thick skinned or pig headed would continue to bluster and belch forth diversionary clouds of smoke in the hope nobody noticed. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KunMatt Posted January 19, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 19, 2015 Actions? Like the Arab governments fighting ISIS you mean? Like Algeria providing intelligence to Europe on suspected terrorists? Like individual Muslims informing on family members who may be travelling to Syria to fight (yes, it happens)? Your implication was clear; no matter how much you now try to back peddle. 40 people - out of how many millions of Muslims in Pakistan? And don't forget - Peshawar is Pashtoonistan, the heartland of an organization once sponsored by the CIA: Taliban. Think you missed ( ignored ) the important part. "They are heroes of Islam. The important part is not what the cleric said; the important part is how few people he represents! As micmichd says, he represents an extremely tiny minority in Pakistan. Yet you post as if he represents the entire Muslim world! That is the point you (deliberately?) missed. BTW, I'm not at the mosque because I am not a Muslim. I wont be at the synagogue tomorrow because I am not Jewish. I wont be at the church on Sunday because I am not Christian. I may be at the Thai Buddhist temple in the near future; but only because my wife is Buddhist; I'm not but she likes me to go with her. I would like you to answer a question which puzzles me and probably others. We live in an age of daily terrorist attacks which are now common place in our news, every single event of which are all of a similar standard, execution and supposed motive; they are carried out by people of all backgrounds and educations and ethnicities in every country around the planet and yet the only thing in common the people carrying out these attacks have with each other is that they are Muslim. Not just Muslim but they claim to be devout Muslims. So my question is this: If Islam is not the root cause of these frequent attacks and this brand of terrorism in our modern day, then what is the cause? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Morch, you asked a specific question about a specific issue. You did not ask who was responsible for these murders. That you don't like the truth is your problem, not mine; but I thought better of you. Please don't descend to the pathetic levels of certain posters. If Muslims who support, publicly or privately, these murders and similar atrocities are the majority, or even a significant minority, why is it that the only evidence of this support comes from fringe elements like the Pakistani cleric or terrorist organisations? Why is it that the majority of comments on this atrocity from Muslims the world over is condemnation? Why is it that the majority of Muslims worldwide condemn the terrorist organisations? Don't believe me? Do a bit of research. Something the disciples of the failed comedian Condell wont do as they know in their hearts it will prove Condell to be the same as that Pakistani cleric; a man who spreads hate and division for his own ends. In Condell's case a pathetic desire for publicity since his career in comedy, such as it was, went down the toilet. I suspect that the Pakistani cleric has similar failure issues leading to a similar need for publicity. I have raised several questions, so not quite sure which one you are replying to (this apparently being a failed experiment in mega-topics, kinda makes it hard to follow without proper quoting). If this was a reference to the Jewish community thing, then it is agreed that many minority groups try to get concessions and privileges to suit their needs and wishes. The difference lies with the "same scope" and "similarly aggressive" qualifying bits included in the original post. As for statements being representative of views and their relative share in the population - the point being made is that what you term as "fringe" is first of all quite a lot of "fringes" when one stops on insisting to see them as isolated cases. Secondly, "fringe" is in the eye of the beholder - in many parts of the Muslim World, the views expressed by such bodies as the Muslim Council of Britain would be considered "fringe". I daresay that demographic wise, the Muslim Council of Britain represents a few millions at best (with the assumption that all Muslims in the UK are of one mind on this). Not, on the whole, a very impressive number vs. the total number of Muslims, or even the number of Muslims in some of them so-called "fringe" areas. No idea how one counts comments and how one asserts their demographic equivalence. My guess would be that this often relies on English language statements made in main stream and social media. This almost certainly leaves off a sizable portion of alternative responses. In that manner, each protest is counted as a single headline rather than a mass of statement, each incident accorded the same status (saying the attacks were wrong vs. burning of churches and further killing in Niger). You keep asking why the majority of Muslims do this, or that....without actually demonstrating that there is a majority behind these claims. It is not a matter of "believing you", but more to do with a case not being demonstrated properly. Calling others to do "more research" in order to unseat unfounded claims should not be considered seriously. My own view being that most of the attempts to assert what the majority of Muslims feel and think is an exercise in futility, and that this cuts both ways. There is no good methodology of putting this to any kind of reliable test. As mentioned in the past, not a Condell fanboy. That said, equating him with the Pakistani cleric or with Choudary is a bit of a stretch, and that's putting it very mildly. Some proportions will benefit this topic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartempion Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) I just downloaded French evening news from 19 jan 20h and saw some anti Charlie Hebdo manifestation in Afghanistan where they were burning Sarkozy's photograph and an ITALIAN flag But they know about a 60.000 a week canard issue (canard or duck is what we call a satirical paper in France) showing an idiot disguised into a prophet, Jeez, what's the colors of France and the name of the idiot president they have again? Edited January 19, 2015 by tartempion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) <snip> So my question is this: If Islam is not the root cause of these frequent attacks and this brand of terrorism in our modern day, then what is the cause? Is Islam the cause of Islamic terrorism? The simple answer is, of course, yes; just as the simple answer to the cause of terrorism by, for example, the Lord's Resistance Army is Christianity. But it is more complicated than that. No one blames Christianity for the LRA,. Their brand of Christianity is not that practised by the vast majority of Christians. Equally the cause of Islamic terrorism is not Islam as practised by the vast majority of Muslims. As has been shown many, many times by the quotes from Muslim governments, Muslim scholars, Muslim clerics, Muslim organisations and ordinary law abiding individual Muslims all condemning the terrorists as un Islamic. That some terrorists are Muslim does not mean that all Muslims are terrorists; even though some members here, and the hate sites they regularly quote from, would have us believe otherwise. Morch, you, as ever, raise some interesting points which I, unfortunately, do not have time right now to address. Allow me to get back to you. Edited January 20, 2015 by 7by7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dragonfly94 Posted January 20, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 20, 2015 <snip> So my question is this: If Islam is not the root cause of these frequent attacks and this brand of terrorism in our modern day, then what is the cause? Is Islam the cause of Islamic terrorism? The simple answer is, of course, yes; just as the simple answer to the cause of terrorism by, for example, the Lord's Resistance Army is Christianity. But it is more complicated than that. No it's not unless you want to deflect attention away from worldwide jihad (and you do) by coming up with one rag tag bunch in Africa who are not Muslims, you must be so relieved to have discovered them at last. Not all Muslims are terrorists and nobody ever claimed they are, but all Islamic terrorists are Muslim and there are an enormous number of them and their supporters, you only have to look at the demos supporting the Paris killers around the world to see that. The motivation for this jihad is the koran and the life of the prophet, no getting away from that however much you would like to. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post H1w4yR1da Posted January 20, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 20, 2015 The people who committed this desecration may have been Muslim; but if so they committed this act of vandalism despite their faith, not because of it.WHAT APOLOGIST CRAP! Enough already! Every time there's an outrage commited by Muslims, it's always nothing to do with Islam. No one, outside of far left PC libtards believe that rubbish anymore. Unbelievable! From mass murder to desecration of war memorials, poppy burning and mass child rape. It's always "Nothing to do with Islam" from the apologists. The secret is out. It's everything to do with Islam! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KunMatt Posted January 20, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 20, 2015 The people who committed this desecration may have been Muslim; but if so they committed this act of vandalism despite their faith, not because of it.WHAT APOLOGIST CRAP!Enough already! Every time there's an outrage commited by Muslims, it's always nothing to do with Islam. No one, outside of far left PC libtards believe that rubbish anymore. Unbelievable! From mass murder to desecration of war memorials, poppy burning and mass child rape. It's always "Nothing to do with Islam" from the apologists. The secret is out. It's everything to do with Islam! He has just admitted that Islam is the cause of modern day terrorism although he did it in a typical apologist way, i.e. either shift the blame onto Christian history or blame the media for making Islam looking bad. Every time there is a thread on the atrocities caused by Muslims he is always there to say that they are not true Muslims and that he believes that there is a massive outcry from "real and moderate" Muslims from all over the world, however for some reason their voice and their message from this "huge majority" never seems to be heard On the other hand, whenever there is any minor slight against Islam then you can be sure that millions of Muslims will be out in force tearing sh!t up and calling for the mass slaughter of anyone even close by the slighters. Now, apologists can say that it is the media who is to blame for portraying Muslims in a bad light but the reality is that Muslims are having the light shone onto them and the world is seeing what they are really like and how completely intolerant and hateful they are the world over, as they have been throughout history since the very beginning of Islam. And it isn't just the mainstream media, if you follow any social media such as Liveleak or even YouTube, then there are an overwhelming number of Islamic barbaric and hateful videos and none, absolutely none, showing this supposedly peaceful and merciful religion being peaceful and merciful, in fact you will be hard pressed not to come across videos of Muslims leaders and supposedly moderate Muslims supporting and justifying any barbaric crime Islamists have committed against innocent civilians. Logically if Islam was a religion of peace and mercy then any Muslim extremist would be extremely peaceful and merciful, however what we see on a daily basis are Muslims extremist the world over who are nothing but extremely barbaric and hateful which means that, of course, Islam must be a barbaric hateful religion. You cannot say that it is just some random nutter outliers who are not real Muslims when this is happening in every country where there are at least a small amount of Muslims, it is clearly a common trend throughout the Muslim world which means that terrorism is not just caused by Islam but it is a part of it. And btw anybody who covers a woman from head to toe in a black sheet so other men won't look at her is clearly taking things to the extreme so there are a lot more extremists out there that you like to admit. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I see that as ever the haters and Islamaphobes are taking one small part of what I have said out of context and instead of trying to disprove what I have said merely throwing out the usual insults. Let them; I know now that rational argument will not overcome their ignorance. I know now that they are not even interested in rational argument. I know now that they really believe that because some Muslims are terrorist then all Muslims must be, or at least support them. One last point, though. Eyewitnesses to the desecration of the statue of the Virgin Mary described those responsible as 'foreigners.' Not Muslim, not Asian, not African, not black, brown, yellow, pink, any colour; merely foreigners. I asked before if there was any evidence at all to indicate that they were Muslim. None has been provided. Despite this, the haters automatically assume that they were Muslim. Says all one needs to know about those haters. Sorry, Morch, I wont be engaging in the rational discussion I promised you; as usual the haters have taken over this topic to preach their hate; I'm sick of it. But I don't hate the haters; I simply pity them for their hate and ignorance. As a man revered as the Son of God by Christians and as a holy prophet by Muslims once said "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KunMatt Posted January 21, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I see that as ever the haters and Islamaphobes are taking one small part of what I have said out of context and instead of trying to disprove what I have said merely throwing out the usual insults. Let them; I know now that rational argument will not overcome their ignorance. I know now that they are not even interested in rational argument. I know now that they really believe that because some Muslims are terrorist then all Muslims must be, or at least support them. One last point, though. Eyewitnesses to the desecration of the statue of the Virgin Mary described those responsible as 'foreigners.' Not Muslim, not Asian, not African, not black, brown, yellow, pink, any colour; merely foreigners. I asked before if there was any evidence at all to indicate that they were Muslim. None has been provided. Despite this, the haters automatically assume that they were Muslim. Says all one needs to know about those haters. Sorry, Morch, I wont be engaging in the rational discussion I promised you; as usual the haters have taken over this topic to preach their hate; I'm sick of it. But I don't hate the haters; I simply pity them for their hate and ignorance. As a man revered as the Son of God by Christians and as a holy prophet by Muslims once said "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." Yes, I'm an Islamophobe, you didn't know? I didn't think it was a mystery. I don't think that being an Islamophobe is any different to being an anti-Nazi or are you trying use that and exuse to say that everything I said is wrong instead of arguing any points I made? I knew you would back down and leave this thread because you cannot argue against the truth and you've run out of lies to twist the truth to your bias. You were the guy who was the contrarian and backing Islam in the thread about IS stating how the Koran justifies why they are allowed to enslave, rape and abuse women and children; my favourite part was when you linked a video to show "moderate UK Muslim's condemn the IS" and after a quick research I found that all 3 out of 3 of the Muslims on the video were radical Muslims, one of them was even the Imam at the mosque where both of Lee Rigby's killers were radicalised. My Islamophobia comes from living in Islamic republics for the last 12 years in the Middle East, Africa and Asia so I think it's well founded. I do feel like I'm in some alternate present when I see how Islam has completely changed countries that it conquered and left wondering how people would be if they didn't live under the strict rule of a hateful religion that wants to conquer the world. It's a preview of how the whole world would be if people like you had your way. If you talk to any non-Muslim who grew up in an Islamic country then I'm sure they will tell you, like they have told me, that Islam is not the beautiful peaceful religion that Muslims from that country pretend it it is. The only people who tell me how beautiful and merciful Islam is are Muslims and usually it turns out that they are not following or understanding the religion as it is really stated. I believe that the only Muslims who are following true Islam are the fundamentalists and all of the moderate Muslims are just bad Muslims because they don't properly adhere to the hateful barbaric ways of Islam. I have never said that all Muslims are terrorists and obviously from living in Islamic countries for so long I have a lot of Muslim friends, in fact I've been engaged to a couple of Muslim girls before, but what I find is that they are good people not because of their faith but in spite of it. However I do believe that all terrorists are Muslims and it one of the biggest problems that our generation, our grandchildren's generation and probably our great grandchildren's generation are going to suffer through for our entire lives. Edited January 21, 2015 by KunMatt 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfly94 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I see that as ever the haters and Islamaphobes are taking one small part of what I have said out of context and instead of trying to disprove what I have said merely throwing out the usual insults. Let them; I know now that rational argument will not overcome their ignorance. I know now that they are not even interested in rational argument. Is that what you call deflecting attention from Jihad, never mentioning the koran and the prophets influence, pointing the finger at others and several stock excuses such as lone nutters, not real Muslims and the good old majority of moderates who don't agree with jihad, sharia or even Islam it seems, and who you claim are forever condemning violence. Also, of course you completely making up Biblical 'laws' on wife beating. Personally I don't find you arguments rational at all. I find them apologistic head in the sand drivel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Don't forget the routine of making excuses and justifications for violent Islamic groups. All this "taken out of context" stuff is just more taqiyya spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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