Promenada - The Beginning of The End?

[narkeddiver]

If it were not for The Dukes and Ragu, Promenda might have no customers at all. I only go there for Ragu.

Also Fuji and Tsukemen 55 is an interesting ramen shop. (Involves a little pot that you heat at your table). The Southern Thai food in front of Rim Ping is also good.

Another vote for Tsukemen 55 here

[seesip]

If it were not for The Dukes and Ragu, Promenda might have no customers at all. I only go there for Ragu.

Also Fuji and Tsukemen 55 is an interesting ramen shop. (Involves a little pot that you heat at your table). The Southern Thai food in front of Rim Ping is also good.

Tsukemen 55 is great, the best I've had in CM at least.

[beau thai]

Prom gets my vote.

Lunch yday in Wine Connection (empty), movie tickets 210bht for 2, maybe 10 other people in the theatre. Cappucino very nicely served in the comfy movie lounge first- 2 for 1 for 55 baht. Seems rude not to go and enjoy.

Noticed Duke's doing good biz for dinner- mix of thai/farang. (cant say if any were farm workers though, but I am sure Dave doesnt care so long as they pay and enjoy)

A little wine shopping after in Rimping.

Works for me.

Oh and the job fair is over so the roller skating is open again.

[scorecard]

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Should probably add that many businesses have signed contracts and then nothing has happened (Mango, some club in the garden zone, fashion tv cafe, that mexican place owned by dukes...probably more that I forget).

So odds on the gym actually happening probably 50:50

It seems to me that Promenada made a major mistake in there overall planning.

Take a look at Central Festival and other similar centres, they always have plenty of customers. Why? Because the developers, either through their own expertise or by hiring professional shopping centre planners to make detailed plans to allocate space to various types of stores etc., etc., spread across the whole complex, aiming to have a variety of store types / merchandise types on each level and spread across the levels but with a specific distance between shops of same type or same merchandise.

Then they make lists of potential business owners who might be interested then appraoch these folks to get it all up and running and coordinated to an opening date etc.

Some of these professional outlets also employ agents who get a good commission from how many stores they sign up, either aligned to the master plan or the other shop spaces that are unaligned on the master plan.

Think back to the opening of Central Festival, pretty much on day one most of the shops opened and the whole complex looked busy, one of the factors that would entice customers to go and took a look. Did all of this happen by accident? No, of course not, it was professionally planned.

From what we all see at Promenada I somehow doubt anything like this was done.

[pgrahmm]

For the price comments about the Dukes.....you could go to McD's with a family of 4 - purchase the sets and be close to the 1000 baht or so it would cost you for good food at the Dukes...the last time we went I purposely over ordered to take food home - we left full with 2 bags of take away and it was 1600 baht....it's all relative of course.....

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Also maybe worth noting that Rim Ping opens at 8am and also has some breakfast options. Either their own restaurant, or you can just grab a coffee at the excellent little place next to their bakery, and have it with some Danish or whatever.

And grocery shopping before 9am is absolutely blissful.

One of those moments where I realize -again- how far Chiang Mai has come in not too many years.

[maanoi]

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Should probably add that many businesses have signed contracts and then nothing has happened (Mango, some club in the garden zone, fashion tv cafe, that mexican place owned by dukes...probably more that I forget).

So odds on the gym actually happening probably 50:50

It seems to me that Promenada made a major mistake in there overall planning.

Take a look at Central Festival and other similar centres, they always have plenty of customers. Why? Because the developers, either through their own expertise or by hiring professional shopping centre planners to make detailed plans to allocate space to various types of stores etc., etc., spread across the whole complex, aiming to have a variety of store types / merchandise types on each level and spread across the levels but with a specific distance between shops of same type or same merchandise.

Then they make lists of potential business owners who might be interested then appraoch these folks to get it all up and running and coordinated to an opening date etc.

Some of these professional outlets also employ agents who get a good commission from how many stores they sign up, either aligned to the master plan or the other shop spaces that are unaligned on the master plan.

Think back to the opening of Central Festival, pretty much on day one most of the shops opened and the whole complex looked busy, one of the factors that would entice customers to go and took a look. Did all of this happen by accident? No, of course not, it was professionally planned.

From what we all see at Promenada I somehow doubt anything like this was done.

I agree. Prom did a terrible job at getting "the right" shops to come. Also they allowed anyone who was willing to sign a lease to come. This resulted in waaay to many coffee / drink shops, many which have already left and most of the remaining ones are struggling.

[midas]

Prom gets my vote.

Lunch yday in Wine Connection (empty), movie tickets 210bht for 2, maybe 10 other people in the theatre. Cappucino very nicely served in the comfy movie lounge first- 2 for 1 for 55 baht. Seems rude not to go and enjoy.

Noticed Duke's doing good biz for dinner- mix of thai/farang. (cant say if any were farm workers though, but I am sure Dave doesnt care so long as they pay and enjoy)

A little wine shopping after in Rimping.

Works for me.

Oh and the job fair is over so the roller skating is open again.

Enjoy it while you can

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Should probably add that many businesses have signed contracts and then nothing has happened (Mango, some club in the garden zone, fashion tv cafe, that mexican place owned by dukes...probably more that I forget).

So odds on the gym actually happening probably 50:50

It seems to me that Promenada made a major mistake in there overall planning.

Take a look at Central Festival and other similar centres, they always have plenty of customers. Why? Because the developers, either through their own expertise or by hiring professional shopping centre planners to make detailed plans to allocate space to various types of stores etc., etc., spread across the whole complex, aiming to have a variety of store types / merchandise types on each level and spread across the levels but with a specific distance between shops of same type or same merchandise.

Then they make lists of potential business owners who might be interested then appraoch these folks to get it all up and running and coordinated to an opening date etc.

Some of these professional outlets also employ agents who get a good commission from how many stores they sign up, either aligned to the master plan or the other shop spaces that are unaligned on the master plan.

Think back to the opening of Central Festival, pretty much on day one most of the shops opened and the whole complex looked busy, one of the factors that would entice customers to go and took a look. Did all of this happen by accident? No, of course not, it was professionally planned.

From what we all see at Promenada I somehow doubt anything like this was done.

I agree. Prom did a terrible job at getting "the right" shops to come. Also they allowed anyone who was willing to sign a lease to come. This resulted in waaay to many coffee / drink shops, many which have already left and most of the remaining ones are struggling.

Maybe there's another point. Central festival is based 90 - 95% on lock up shops (percentages just a guess) and there are hundreds of them.

Promenada doesn't have all that many lock up shops, perhaps that means the complex doesn't have the variety to attract large numbers of shoppers. In fact the number of lock up shops compared to the quite big overall floor space across it's two buildings is quite low.

Promenada does have quite a few traders who can't lock up, they just cover their racks at night time. I wonder in terms of shopping psychology if this looks like 'lower class'. That brings the question of what 'image' the Promenada developers are aiming for.

[Mapguy]

It is going to apparently take a Nepalese-strength earthquake to bring down Promenada, and the apocalypse to end this thread!

[northernjohn]

Hard to say what is going to close it down. It has been sold twice I was told. took the family there the other day. Been a while. Seemed to me there was more shops open and more people there. Still not a lot of people shopping there. Went to the Rimping. Still didn't like it to dark and you have to walk up and down the aisles to find what you want. No signs on the end of the aisle telling what is in it. I suppose for the people who go regularly there it is easy enough they know where the items they want are.

On a side note Dave is still planning on the Mexican restaurant. Right now he is to busy making Nancy happy at the Maya.

Kind of funny the year before I moved here or the year I did they announced they were going to build it. Thai Visa had posters predicting the airport mall was going to lose a lot of business the traffic intersection was going to be not as busy. There was many claiming all the westerners who lived in the area would be going there. It was going to be like the invention of sliced bread. On the other hand the Mall claimed they were going to open up with big brand name stores and attract customers from out of town.

I hope it makes it. Out of my way but I still find it to be the nicest mall. Not just a big barn like the Central. Which I noticed has stores closing up.

[maanoi]

Hard to say what is going to close it down. It has been sold twice I was told. took the family there the other day.

Nah the original Dutch owners still own it. There's been a bunch of rumors of it being sold , names like Chang Beer have done the rounds. But as of now its hasn't been sold.

[uhhh ohhh]

I haven't gone through all of the posts so I don't know if it's been mentioned but the lack of an "ANCHOR" store probably doesn't help. Festival seems to be doing okay as well as Airport. Forget KSK....that needs to be torn down or completely redone. I agree with the posters who say Prom did not get the right shops. I go there for a couple of good restaurants. Because I'm there for lunch/dinner I'll do some shopping at Rimping and I'll rarely take in a movie. Three new malls/shopping centers open within a year of each other??? Maybe a little over-saturation!!!

[elektrified]

I haven't gone through all of the posts so I don't know if it's been mentioned but the lack of an "ANCHOR" store probably doesn't help. Festival seems to be doing okay as well as Airport. Forget KSK....that needs to be torn down or completely redone. I agree with the posters who say Prom did not get the right shops. I go there for a couple of good restaurants. Because I'm there for lunch/dinner I'll do some shopping at Rimping and I'll rarely take in a movie. Three new malls/shopping centers open within a year of each other??? Maybe a little over-saturation!!!

I disagree with your assessment of KSK. It's a great place to shop. Festival is fine if you want to stand around looking cool and take selfies. I haven't found a single restaurant in there that is any good. Even Sizzler is not as good there as the others. KSK is great to get in and out quickly, do some shopping, and even the food court food is quite good. We saw a coffee maker at Central Festival we liked but thought the price was too high. They wouldn't budge on the price. WEnt to KSK Central and got the exact same coffee make for more than 25% less! Men's shoes always priced right at Central KSK, sheets , towels, etc. We bought a Samsung Galaxy 10.1 tablet up at one of the kiosks on the 3rd floor only 5 months old with 7 month warranty remaining, barely used, in original box for 50% off new price....etc. Not the most beautiful but great to actually shop at. Take a look at how many people are carrying shopping bags at KSK compared to Festival or MAYA and I think more business is conducted there. MAYA has a great cinema however....as does the Prom.

Indeed over-saturation. Too many malls at one time....what were they thinking?

[mania]

Indeed over-saturation. Too many malls at one time....what were they thinking?

It was classic actually

Seen it before in the West too....right before tshtf

Also here It was not just malls it was homes,condos,car sales etc

Three years ago so many easy credit commercials...remember? All the commercials with like

a father sitting pondering all the bills...education,repairs,car,home..son saying he wanted to be

an astronaut after schooling etc? Or the home improvement commercials with an owner wondering how to afford it?

They were all easy credit commercials. Then all the new building projects started with low down payment offers

Remember the wait times to get a new truck? Was like a 6 month line etc.

All of the above classic irrational exuberance with nothing to support its future plan wise.

Classic............

If you also read the Thai forums like Pantip... today you know what the Thai's are saying now & how bad

they are hurting financially & business wise.

[thaibeachlovers]

Indeed over-saturation. Too many malls at one time....what were they thinking?

It was classic actually

Seen it before in the West too....right before tshtf

Also here It was not just malls it was homes,condos,car sales etc

Three years ago so many easy credit commercials...remember? All the commercials with like

a father sitting pondering all the bills...education,repairs,car,home..son saying he wanted to be

an astronaut after schooling etc? Or the home improvement commercials with an owner wondering how to afford it?

They were all easy credit commercials. Then all the new building projects started with low down payment offers

Remember the wait times to get a new truck? Was like a 6 month line etc.

All of the above classic irrational exuberance with nothing to support its future plan wise.

Classic............

If you also read the Thai forums like Pantip... today you know what the Thai's are saying now & how bad

they are hurting financially & business wise.

how bad they are hurting financially & business wise.

They've been saying that since the last century crash, but it's not reflected on the street. Loads of new cars, m'bikes etc, the IT cafe is always full of kids and as I have had it pointed out on this very thread, plenty of rice farmers rich enough to eat at expensive places.

Does not indicate that many are hurting at all.

[NancyL]

I haven't gone through all of the posts so I don't know if it's been mentioned but the lack of an "ANCHOR" store probably doesn't help. Festival seems to be doing okay as well as Airport. Forget KSK....that needs to be torn down or completely redone. I agree with the posters who say Prom did not get the right shops. I go there for a couple of good restaurants. Because I'm there for lunch/dinner I'll do some shopping at Rimping and I'll rarely take in a movie. Three new malls/shopping centers open within a year of each other??? Maybe a little over-saturation!!!

I disagree with your assessment of KSK. It's a great place to shop. Festival is fine if you want to stand around looking cool and take selfies. I haven't found a single restaurant in there that is any good. Even Sizzler is not as good there as the others. KSK is great to get in and out quickly, do some shopping, and even the food court food is quite good. We saw a coffee maker at Central Festival we liked but thought the price was too high. They wouldn't budge on the price. WEnt to KSK Central and got the exact same coffee make for more than 25% less! Men's shoes always priced right at Central KSK, sheets , towels, etc. We bought a Samsung Galaxy 10.1 tablet up at one of the kiosks on the 3rd floor only 5 months old with 7 month warranty remaining, barely used, in original box for 50% off new price....etc. Not the most beautiful but great to actually shop at. Take a look at how many people are carrying shopping bags at KSK compared to Festival or MAYA and I think more business is conducted there. MAYA has a great cinema however....as does the Prom.

Indeed over-saturation. Too many malls at one time....what were they thinking?

Don't take away my KSK.

I may be a fan of Maya because I feel sorta chic going to a bright shiny new mall, having the doorman salute me and seeing a Hollywood movie in a beautiful theater a week or two before it opens in the U.S. for about $3 just so I can brag about it in an email to my brother (and spoil the plot) AND I'll love Maya even more if Dave ever gets that Duke's open. But.......

I've kept count. I was in KSK over 40 times during the month of April and every time I spent money. And this was during Songkran when I holed up in my condo for a few days and didn't go out. Yeah, I know, I should be more efficient in my shopping and errands, but many days I'm in that mall twice or even three times)

[Mapguy]

Kad Suan Kaew is not dead, but it sure needs a face job.

Otherwise, Mania seems to have his head on straight.

[uhhh ohhh]

I don't want to see KSK taken away but it certainly needs a facelift. I'm happy numerous posters have found great bargains there. That side of town certainly needs a good shopping area and I would rather have seen the best of Maya and KSK combined into one with an anchor store, good restaurants, small shops and obviously a theatre.

[chingmai331]

Heaven forbid a fire at KSK. How times have i looked for an exit on the 2nd or 3rd floor and found only another empty corridor? Many. It would be a huge, time consuming task to remodel KSK but some interior work could be done to 'safen' it up.

[mania]

They've been saying that since the last century crash, but it's not reflected on the street. Loads of new cars, m'bikes etc, the IT cafe is always full of kids and as I have had it pointed out on this very thread, plenty of rice farmers rich enough to eat at expensive places.

Does not indicate that many are hurting at all.

If you read Thai you will see even the talad sellers are now getting very worried

Also what comes next if this is following most similar events that occurred in roughly 2008 in western countries

Is Thai banks will next feel the pinch as those they gave easy money to cannot repay low

down loans for inflated priced new homes etc & the bank ends up getting a lot of what they call "jingle mail"

That is when a home owner sends the keys to the bank with an apology that they can no longer service the debt so as per the agreement here

is your asset back.

We will see & I hope it changes for all concerned.

It is not a problem for folks like us who are living on savings & have the option

to move back to another country. But it will not be easy for those without options if it continues.

[Konini]

I still think that the idea I had at the beginning of this thread hold up - an anchor tenant who is DIFFERENT. In Melbourne the Japanese department store Daimaru gave the 2 higher end department stores a real wake up call and changed the way staff treated customers. We had just finished building our house when it opened and instead of all of the tired old things in Myer and David Jones, Daimaru had things that were different. It didn't save them in the end, Melbourne isn't big enough for 3 high end stores and it closed down, but the 2 remaining stores still train their staff so much better than before and there is still a wider range of clothes and home wares available; they seem to have realised that they can make more money if they sell different items, OK, they lose out on the things that they haven't copied, but a lot of their stock isn't available at the other so it's a win-win for both business and customer.

Daimaru isn't the only better class department store in Japan, and as long as they stock different items, different clothing, and different home wares, different kitchenware, different hardware etc (Central, Robinson, Homepro, Index etc are all the same when it comes to stock) they should do well here, I have no real idea but China probably has their version of a high end department store chain now - maybe someone bought all of those horribly unfriendly Friendship Stores and turned them into something nice.

I feel for the owners, because surely they never imagined that the centre would be so devoid of both customers and retailers. They really need offer a good package - even a loss-leader that is something different to what is already in Thailand and that people will want to go to and shop or browse. Get the foot traffic and it's a domino effect.

We went to Promenada just out of curiosity. There was nothing there for me apart from Rimping, Uniqlo maybe if I was doing clothes shopping and if I recall correctly the lighting in there was not very kind to my eyes. I have no reason to go back. Unless Daimaru opens (even just a small to test the market) department store. It's not about quality, it's about choice, and you have pretty much the same choice at the existing stores here in Thailand.

[northernjohn]

I still think that the idea I had at the beginning of this thread hold up - an anchor tenant who is DIFFERENT. In Melbourne the Japanese department store Daimaru gave the 2 higher end department stores a real wake up call and changed the way staff treated customers. We had just finished building our house when it opened and instead of all of the tired old things in Myer and David Jones, Daimaru had things that were different. It didn't save them in the end, Melbourne isn't big enough for 3 high end stores and it closed down, but the 2 remaining stores still train their staff so much better than before and there is still a wider range of clothes and home wares available; they seem to have realised that they can make more money if they sell different items, OK, they lose out on the things that they haven't copied, but a lot of their stock isn't available at the other so it's a win-win for both business and customer.

Daimaru isn't the only better class department store in Japan, and as long as they stock different items, different clothing, and different home wares, different kitchenware, different hardware etc (Central, Robinson, Homepro, Index etc are all the same when it comes to stock) they should do well here, I have no real idea but China probably has their version of a high end department store chain now - maybe someone bought all of those horribly unfriendly Friendship Stores and turned them into something nice.

I feel for the owners, because surely they never imagined that the centre would be so devoid of both customers and retailers. They really need offer a good package - even a loss-leader that is something different to what is already in Thailand and that people will want to go to and shop or browse. Get the foot traffic and it's a domino effect.

We went to Promenada just out of curiosity. There was nothing there for me apart from Rimping, Uniqlo maybe if I was doing clothes shopping and if I recall correctly the lighting in there was not very kind to my eyes. I have no reason to go back. Unless Daimaru opens (even just a small to test the market) department store. It's not about quality, it's about choice, and you have pretty much the same choice at the existing stores here in Thailand.

Uniglo did a night pull out about a month ago. It was either shut down there or at Central Festival. I agree about the lighting as far as Rimping goes. the original plan was to have all high in stores. People were going to fly in to shop at them.

[midas]

Indeed over-saturation. Too many malls at one time....what were they thinking?

It was classic actually

Seen it before in the West too....right before tshtf

Also here It was not just malls it was homes,condos,car sales etc

Three years ago so many easy credit commercials...remember? All the commercials with like

a father sitting pondering all the bills...education,repairs,car,home..son saying he wanted to be

an astronaut after schooling etc? Or the home improvement commercials with an owner wondering how to afford it?

They were all easy credit commercials. Then all the new building projects started with low down payment offers

Remember the wait times to get a new truck? Was like a 6 month line etc.

All of the above classic irrational exuberance with nothing to support its future plan wise.

Classic............

If you also read the Thai forums like Pantip... today you know what the Thai's are saying now & how bad

they are hurting financially & business wise.

how bad they are hurting financially & business wise.

They've been saying that since the last century crash, but it's not reflected on the street. Loads of new cars, m'bikes etc, the IT cafe is always full of kids and as I have had it pointed out on this very thread, plenty of rice farmers rich enough to eat at expensive places.

Does not indicate that many are hurting at all.

Give it time and it will be reflected on the streets

Rising household debt casts doubt over Thailand’s economic revival

April 16, 2015

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/bb229c5c-e3e6-11e4-9a82-00144feab7de.html#axzz3YtlxuhEO

[Konini]

Uniglo did a night pull out about a month ago. It was either shut down there or at Central Festival. I agree about the lighting as far as Rimping goes. the original plan was to have all high in stores. People were going to fly in to shop at them.

I bet choosing which one to close was a hard decision.

Ah, they didn't figure a very much slowed down economy in China, where I assume the fly-ins would be coming from? Are there enough people in China rich enough to fly in just to shop at Promenada? They should have done some marketing in China before the tourists arrive, possibly at the airports when planes were departing for CNX so it would be fresh in their minds, or in the in-flight magazine, then it would just be a reminder the next day (something left in the hotel room?) and either a free shuttle or pleasant taxi and songteow drivers who wouldn't overcharge for taking tourists out there.

I don't work in marketing and know nothing at all about it, all of the above is just common sense. Maybe they did all of these things and we just don't know about it and the couldn't get the fly-ins in the numbers that they would require. It's a shame,

I wonder if the people making the decisions are the owners or if it is a separate company managing it and making the big decisions and making recommendation for the biggest ones.

As long as the building is well maintained, in 5 years or 10 years or 15 years it may be prime real estate with people falling over themselves to be there, and if the building continues to be maintained to a high standard they will be laughing all the way to the bank and asking themselves why they were ever worried about it. I hope so, I don't like to see anyone - even the super-rich - lose money unless they are greedy or doing something illegal or taking advantage of people, then I wouldn't say they deserve it and start getting all Schadenfreude -like, but I wouldn't be sympathetic.

EDIT: I can't spell.

[Mapguy]

If we are worried about poor lighting in stores, what, possibly, could we be more worried about?

[Konini]

If we are worried about poor lighting in stores, what, possibly, could we be more worried about?

Falling over because of the poor lighting? In that particular shop anyway - it was a long, long time ago but I remember that they made the store very dark. I think they might have been blue.

But if taking a bit of a tumble is all we could be worried about, we all would have to admit that life is pretty good.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I like the lighting at Rimping just fine. Much better than the super bright lighting at Big C or Tesco.

You'd have to be considerably visually impaired before that becomes a problem.

[Konini]

I like the lighting at Rimping just fine. Much better than the super bright lighting at Big C or Tesco.

You'd have to be considerably visually impaired before that becomes a problem.

Quite likely, it's just very different from what we know i.e. super bright. And it's the one thing that sticks in my mind.

[northernjohn]

Uniglo did a night pull out about a month ago. It was either shut down there or at Central Festival. I agree about the lighting as far as Rimping goes. the original plan was to have all high in stores. People were going to fly in to shop at them.

I bet choosing which one to close was a hard decision.

Ah, they didn't figure a very much slowed down economy in China, where I assume the fly-ins would be coming from? Are there enough people in China rich enough to fly in just to shop at Promenada? They should have done some marketing in China before the tourists arrive, possibly at the airports when planes were departing for CNX so it would be fresh in their minds, or in the in-flight magazine, then it would just be a reminder the next day (something left in the hotel room?) and either a free shuttle or pleasant taxi and songteow drivers who wouldn't overcharge for taking tourists out there.

I don't work in marketing and know nothing at all about it, all of the above is just common sense. Maybe they did all of these things and we just don't know about it and the couldn't get the fly-ins in the numbers that they would require. It's a shame,

I wonder if the people making the decisions are the owners or if it is a separate company managing it and making the big decisions and making recommendation for the biggest ones.

As long as the building is well maintained, in 5 years or 10 years or 15 years it may be prime real estate with people falling over themselves to be there, and if the building continues to be maintained to a high standard they will be laughing all the way to the bank and asking themselves why they were ever worried about it. I hope so, I don't like to see anyone - even the super-rich - lose money unless they are greedy or doing something illegal or taking advantage of people, then I wouldn't say they deserve it and start getting all Schadenfreude -like, but I wouldn't be sympathetic.

EDIT: I can't spell.

Actually they figured on people flying in from Northern Thailand. This was before the Chinese started flooding Chiang Mai. They were going to have high end stores and the way they put it out it sounded like there would be a hotel there. A place for people to stay when they flew in. Nothing said about a shuttle from the air port.

I hope they do make it as I prefer the mall to the other ones. Funny part about the whole situation is the lack of customers at the banks there fore making your banking easier.