Promenada - The Beginning of The End?

[Trujillo]

So a "chang" doing construction work there says it's for immigration for non-Burmese?

Did you get any stock tips too? Didn't try to sell you a bridge, did he?

[maanoi]

Confirmed with ECC ( the company that owns and runs prom) today that immigration are coming.

" Confirm! The Immigration will open within June 2015 and we will announce on Promenada Page soon."

So a "chang" doing construction work there says it's for immigration for non-Burmese?

Did you get any stock tips too? Didn't try to sell you a bridge, did he?

I can get the mrs to go back and get those stock tips if you want

[MESmith]

Wonder if immigration get rent free office in an effort to get more customers to Prom? Doesn't make sense renting there when they have offices across the road.

[Puwa]

While I don't expect a sudden shift to perfection, this has to be good news, at least in terms of parking, air conditioning, food and drinks, etc. A change of scenery will probably do the Immigration staff some good as well. And if it helps boosts trade at Promenada, it seems like a win-win. Whoever came up with the idea deserves a pat on the back.

[MESmith]

While I don't expect a sudden shift to perfection, this has to be good news, at least in terms of parking, air conditioning, food and drinks, etc. A change of scenery will probably do the Immigration staff some good as well. And if it helps boosts trade at Promenada, it seems like a win-win. Whoever came up with the idea deserves a pat on the back.

Indeed, very good news, assuming we can do same immigration business as we can at existing office. Hope they keep original office, or we're gonna get the "no public transport to Prom" bitching moaning

[maanoi]

Indeed, very good news, assuming we can do same immigration business as we can at existing office.

Yeah that is the big question. Are they keeping the original branch, and if so, what will their powers be at prom?

The unit at prom they have is not that big, so I'm thinking they will keep the original branch open.

Hopefully they get more staff and actually make this work.

[naboo]

Guessing the original office will keep extensions, hopefully with more staff.

[Trujillo]

I guess then immigration will rent one of those 4 square meter kiosks?

[maanoi]

I guess then immigration will rent one of those 4 square meter kiosks?

I would guess the unit is 100' ish square meters.

[NancyL]

As someone who normally moans about the lack of public transportation to Promenada, I'd welcome them packing up the whole kit-and-kaboodle that's out near the airport and moving to Promenada if it means there will be good parking, aircon, adequate office space, waiting area and the ability to kill time eating at Dukes, Ragu, seeing a movie and celebrate getting your annual extension with a purchase of bubbly from Rim Ping or Wine Connection. Especially if they get this on-line 90-day reporting thingy figured out.

[Oscar2]

i was there this evening and it's hard to tell of course, but it does look like they are building some kind of office and not a shop, bar, restaurant, etc.

[Konini]

Wonder if immigration get rent free office in an effort to get more customers to Prom? Doesn't make sense renting there when they have offices across the road.

You know I'd thought about this months ago. Not necessarily immigration, but an anchor tenant of any description which would bring the punters into the shopping centre. It makes sense on so many levels to have a loss leader of this kind, although it would be setting a bad precedent for future retail developments (when has foresight bothered Thai people?). Although it goes across the grain of the way things work here when business is bad, anything which increased the foot traffic out there would be worth not only giving away for free, but perhaps even giving other concessions to boot.

And while I said not necessarily immigration, what a good idea it would be if it could happen. They could even sponser a the salary of 2 or 3 low level staff to keep things moving along nice and quickly. The easier it is in immigration, the fewer people that would use agents after the initial application and the more people there would be taking their wallet out for a walk once their business was complete.

We should just call ourselves consultants and charge a huge fee.

[narkeddiver]

Wonder if immigration get rent free office in an effort to get more customers to Prom? Doesn't make sense renting there when they have offices across the road.

You know I'd thought about this months ago. Not necessarily immigration, but an anchor tenant of any description which would bring the punters into the shopping centre. It makes sense on so many levels to have a loss leader of this kind, although it would be setting a bad precedent for future retail developments (when has foresight bothered Thai people?). Although it goes across the grain of the way things work here when business is bad, anything which increased the foot traffic out there would be worth not only giving away for free, but perhaps even giving other concessions to boot.

And while I said not necessarily immigration, what a good idea it would be if it could happen. They could even sponser a the salary of 2 or 3 low level staff to keep things moving along nice and quickly. The easier it is in immigration, the fewer people that would use agents after the initial application and the more people there would be taking their wallet out for a walk once their business was complete.

We should just call ourselves consultants and charge a huge fee.

You'll need a work permit for that Sorry couldn't resist

[WorkingTourist]

You know I'd thought about this months ago. Not necessarily immigration, but an anchor tenant of any description which would bring the punters into the shopping centre. It makes sense on so many levels to have a loss leader of this kind, although it would be setting a bad precedent for future retail developments (when has foresight bothered Thai people?).

It is not uncommon for big brands to get a better rate because of the spillover effect so I dont see why the immigration office wouldnt also be able to get the better rate.

[northernjohn]

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Wonder if immigration get rent free office in an effort to get more customers to Prom? Doesn't make sense renting there when they have offices across the road.

You know I'd thought about this months ago. Not necessarily immigration, but an anchor tenant of any description which would bring the punters into the shopping centre. It makes sense on so many levels to have a loss leader of this kind, although it would be setting a bad precedent for future retail developments (when has foresight bothered Thai people?). Although it goes across the grain of the way things work here when business is bad, anything which increased the foot traffic out there would be worth not only giving away for free, but perhaps even giving other concessions to boot.

And while I said not necessarily immigration, what a good idea it would be if it could happen. They could even sponser a the salary of 2 or 3 low level staff to keep things moving along nice and quickly. The easier it is in immigration, the fewer people that would use agents after the initial application and the more people there would be taking their wallet out for a walk once their business was complete.

We should just call ourselves consultants and charge a huge fee.

Sorry Konini, But the mall is not owned by a Thai company. It has foreign owners. Good idea but not going to happen.

As for giving immigration a break on the rent well I some how feel it is such a minute item on their budget that it would not even draw their attention. They are more concerned with room for serving the public enough room for an adequate staff and to a lesser degree parking space. Maybe an aggressive presentation to them would be the way to go if indeed they are not already preparing for the move.

[arunsakda]

Beginning of the end indeed . There are people who have actual 100s of millions USD made from prostitution, human traffic and slavery, drugs, purchasing submarines, arms sales, poaching of marine assets, trade in illegal animal parts, stock fraud, extortion, illegal land deals etc.

Property development is the perfect means to rationalize these "investments" in a way that can be traded as legitimate assets.

[northernjohn]

Beginning of the end indeed . There are people who have actual 100s of millions USD made from prostitution, human traffic and slavery, drugs, purchasing submarines, arms sales, poaching of marine assets, trade in illegal animal parts, stock fraud, extortion, illegal land deals etc.

Property development is the perfect means to rationalize these "investments" in a way that can be traded as legitimate assets.

It is true that Thailand is notorious for money laundering. How ever I don't think that is the case here. It got off to a poor start. They did not bring in the name brands they had claimed they would and opened well before they were really ready to. In the mean time Central Festival opened with a much larger local population and easier access..

Hopefully it will catch on as it is the nicest mall in Chiang Mai. Just lacking in customers and shops. Immigration would go a long way towards solving that.

[Ulysses G.]

Hopefully it will catch on as it is the nicest mall in Chiang Mai. Just lacking in customers and shops.

Those things seem rather important to a shopping mall.

[midas]

Beginning of the end indeed . There are people who have actual 100s of millions USD made from prostitution, human traffic and slavery, drugs, purchasing submarines, arms sales, poaching of marine assets, trade in illegal animal parts, stock fraud, extortion, illegal land deals etc.

Property development is the perfect means to rationalize these "investments" in a way that can be traded as legitimate assets.

Yeah but building this place was silly and suggests there was inadequate research. If someone might want to clean some “ dirty money it doesn’t mean you can’t put such dirty money to much more efficient use in the meantime - e.g. some people are currently raking in 65,724% profit on water in California. No building no management hassles-nothing

http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2015/05/11/wal-mart-exposed-bottling-water-from-sacramento-municipal-supply-in-the-middle-of-a-drought/

[WorkingTourist]

The money laundering angle has already been discussed in this thread and it makes absolutely no sense.

Let’s say you sell drugs in Thailand (i.e. illegal), this gives you a lot of baht notes that might raise questions you can’t answer if deposited into your personal bank account.

So what you do is you buy a bar for some of this cash, as the seller is probably happy to be paid in cash and forgo any KYC procedures, like asking for proof of origin of funds, etc.

Now you have a legit business and you’ll simply tell the bank that your money comes from the bar, presumably cook the books so that they match the amount you deposit. If you’re smart, you’ll have a lot of immaterial items, for example 30 “before 8 o’clock” barfines at 5.000 baht (after 8 o’clock the barfine will go down to regular price). That’s 150.000 baht in profit that is hard to check.

If you’re making too much (dirty) money for one bar, then buy another, and soon you’ll own half of Nana Plaza…

What you don’t want to do is build a multi-billion baht mall that has no customers.

[northernjohn]

The money laundering angle has already been discussed in this thread and it makes absolutely no sense.

Let’s say you sell drugs in Thailand (i.e. illegal), this gives you a lot of baht notes that might raise questions you can’t answer if deposited into your personal bank account.

So what you do is you buy a bar for some of this cash, as the seller is probably happy to be paid in cash and forgo any KYC procedures, like asking for proof of origin of funds, etc.

Now you have a legit business and you’ll simply tell the bank that your money comes from the bar, presumably cook the books so that they match the amount you deposit. If you’re smart, you’ll have a lot of immaterial items, for example 30 “before 8 o’clock” barfines at 5.000 baht (after 8 o’clock the barfine will go down to regular price). That’s 150.000 baht in profit that is hard to check.

If you’re making too much (dirty) money for one bar, then buy another, and soon you’ll own half of Nana Plaza…

What you don’t want to do is build a multi-billion baht mall that has no customers.

You are assuming that only small time crooks launder money.

[WorkingTourist]

You are assuming that only small time crooks launder money.

No, I just dont see building a multi billion baht mall as a good vehicle for money laundering. See my previous posts starting at #142.

If anyone has an idea on how it would work, please do enlighten us.

[Dante99]

You are assuming that only small time crooks launder money.

No, I just dont see building a multi billion baht mall as a good vehicle for money laundering. See my previous posts starting at #142.

If anyone has an idea on how it would work, please do enlighten us.

Where is the mystery? Dirty money is used to buy a clean enterprise/building/asset then the money produced by or earned by that clean entity/asset is clean.

Real estate development has been used to launder billions, just look to Florida.

[WorkingTourist]

Where is the mystery? Dirty money is used to buy a clean enterprise/building/asset then the money produced by or earned by that clean entity/asset is clean.

So in this case, who bought what? Who accepted the dirty money?

And who wants to use their dirty money to buy a mall that is losing money? Though this one is sort of rhetorical, as Promenada has not been sold to anyone.

Real estate development has been used to launder billions, just look to Florida.

I am not familiar with Florida, but it is not uncommon that dirty money (incl. money for which little or no tax has been paid) end up in offshore companies placed in tax havens with lax regulation so that the true owners can stay anonymous.

One way to use these money is to buy luxurious apartments, keep the apartments in the name of the anonymous company, but let the true owner of the company, or their associates, use the apartments.

Such setup is probably in widespread use, but its rather different than a publicly traded Polish company building and running a mall in Chiang Mai. I havent heard of anything that is just remotely shady about how Promenada was financed or is being run.

[Dante99]

Where is the mystery? Dirty money is used to buy a clean enterprise/building/asset then the money produced by or earned by that clean entity/asset is clean.

So in this case, who bought what? Who accepted the dirty money?

If you can not figure it out, don't worry about it. I gave up trying to explain the obvious.

[kaptainrob]

I had confirmation today that CNX Immi is moving the Visa Extensions/Reporting office to Promenada "next month".

My assumption is that this a temporary measure which may permit the construction of long overdue, and previously discussed, new premises at the airport site. But I could be wrong on that score so don't quote me please.

One would hope that BM's like WT above, are encouraged to participate in making improvements in the system as the generally super-friendly Immi staff can certainly benefit from our assistance as much as we might.

[kaptainrob]

Oh, woohoo .... air conditioning and Dukes burgers or pizza for lunch !!! Will make a trip to Immi all the more worthwhile.

[MaeJoMTB]

The money laundering angle has already been discussed in this thread and it makes absolutely no sense.

Let’s say you sell drugs in Thailand (i.e. illegal), this gives you a lot of baht notes that might raise questions you can’t answer if deposited into your personal bank account.

So what you do is you buy a bar for some of this cash, as the seller is probably happy to be paid in cash and forgo any KYC procedures, like asking for proof of origin of funds, etc.

Now you have a legit business and you’ll simply tell the bank that your money comes from the bar, presumably cook the books so that they match the amount you deposit. If you’re smart, you’ll have a lot of immaterial items, for example 30 “before 8 o’clock” barfines at 5.000 baht (after 8 o’clock the barfine will go down to regular price). That’s 150.000 baht in profit that is hard to check.

If you’re making too much (dirty) money for one bar, then buy another, and soon you’ll own half of Nana Plaza…

What you don’t want to do is build a multi-billion baht mall that has no customers.

Yeah you do,

At the end of the day you have a clean bit of land to sell.

And you cleaned a lot of money by owning the building firms that overcharged wildly for the building work.

Two hits of laundering money in one go.

[WorkingTourist]

If you can not figure it out, don't worry about it. I gave up trying to explain the obvious.

What a cheap cop-out!

[WorkingTourist]

What you don’t want to do is build a multi-billion baht mall that has no customers.

Yeah you do,

At the end of the day you have a clean bit of land to sell.

And you cleaned a lot of money by owning the building firms that overcharged wildly for the building work.

Two hits of laundering money in one go.

If you were able to buy a piece of land with cash (and no-one cared where these cash came from) or maybe via an offshore company to which you had managed to channel dirty money (but then, the hard part of the laundering has already been done), then yes, selling that piece of land would somewhat launder your money, except of course if the authorities look into it, they’ll not stop at the sale of the land, they’ll also want to know how the land was obtained.

Regardless, Promenada was not built by some anonymous offshore company or an unknown developer who paid everything in cash, and then sold the entire thing. It was built by a publicly traded Polish company, so quite sure the books are quite open about the land deal and related development activities, and the mall hasn’t been sold, so even if it was all funded with dirty money, nothing has yet been laundered (since no profit has been generated), just a major loss.

Yes, there is a theoretical possibility that the developer owns the building companies and they then use the opportunity to take in dirty money (from what exactly?) and then cook their books to launder them, but that’s where I say that this is an extremely costly way to launder money.

So can we please put the money laundering theory to rest?