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JLT

Promenada - The Beginning of The End?

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For what it is worth, the expat businesses in Pattaya do not seem to be doing well either - at least according to the TV Pattaya forum. There seems to be a tourist slowdown all over Thailand, rather than just in Chiang Mai.

Need to get out and see ALL of Thailand. Expats numbers are DOWN in Spades. Chiang Mai ain't special in this.

How exactly do you do this in an objective way? An economy is a huge thing. Do you really believe that by going, say, to Bangkok or Hua Hin or Phuket, you can somehow look around and come to an objective answer? Far better to look at various financial reports to see what's going on. Or other statistical sources. It seems likely that places like Pattaya will suffer tremendously because of its dependence on Russian tourism. But you don't need to go there to see for yourself.

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I hope it continues to stay open, always loved going there. If it can hold on a bit longer, it will serve the multitude of new moobaans that will likely surface in that area of town.

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@JLT: I think the owner is a Dutch investor who in principle had a good idea to build a retail mall in the 2nd biggest city in Thailand. So the timing and idea was good. However I guess he didn't have much of an idea about what kind of malls Asians like, he could have gone to Singapore/Hong Kong/Shanghai/Tokyo or even Bangkok to get an idea. Not sure how long until they will sell it or do something different with the place. But I'm sure they are loosing money on this project.

Just for the record since I've seen many people incl. on TV state that CM is Thailand second largest city in Thailand, perhaps since the Rose of the North is considered the second capital by some.

Here is some of the numbers I've found

(assuming one is talking population which revelent to retail and not area etc.)

#4 http://www.livingthai.org/census-populations-for-cities-in-thailand.html

#6 by popuation according to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Thailand

#7 http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/thailand-population/major-cities-in-thailand/

#8 http://www.citypopulation.de/Thailand-Cities.html

There's lots of other stats, both newer and older, but I've never seen it listed as #2

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I hope it continues to stay open, always loved going there. If it can hold on a bit longer, it will serve the multitude of new moobaans that will likely surface in that area of town.

Bought up by the Chinese and Bangkokese and vacant 11 out of 12 months.whistling.gif

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@JLT: I think the owner is a Dutch investor who in principle had a good idea to build a retail mall in the 2nd biggest city in Thailand. So the timing and idea was good. However I guess he didn't have much of an idea about what kind of malls Asians like, he could have gone to Singapore/Hong Kong/Shanghai/Tokyo or even Bangkok to get an idea. Not sure how long until they will sell it or do something different with the place. But I'm sure they are loosing money on this project.

Just for the record since I've seen many people incl. on TV state that CM is Thailand second largest city in Thailand, perhaps since the Rose of the North is considered the second capital by some.

Here is some of the numbers I've found

(assuming one is talking population which revelent to retail and not area etc.)

#4 http://www.livingthai.org/census-populations-for-cities-in-thailand.html

#6 by popuation according to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Thailand

#7 http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/thailand-population/major-cities-in-thailand/

#8 http://www.citypopulation.de/Thailand-Cities.html

There's lots of other stats, both newer and older, but I've never seen it listed as #2

thanks for the clarification. I didn't know that it was only somewhere no 6 in Thailand but good you highlight it.

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For what it is worth, the expat businesses in Pattaya do not seem to be doing well either - at least according to the TV Pattaya forum. There seems to be a tourist slowdown all over Thailand, rather than just in Chiang Mai.

Need to get out and see ALL of Thailand. Expats numbers are DOWN in Spades. Chiang Mai ain't special in this.

Not sure if this is correct. I assume you are referring to Expats as foreigners living in Thailand (excl tourists). I have no stats but my impression is that the number of foreigners living in Thailand is up, is certainly up for the province Chiang Mai.

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I have not been to CM for at least 3 years and therefore never been to Promenada, but I got curious after browsing this topic and checked googlemaps.

I worked as an area manager for Europe's largest retail comglomerate, so I dare to say I have a certain knowledge about retail operations, and why why why this place here may not be successful ? well, just one headline:

" Location Location Location".

if you open a new Store / Mall / Hotel there are three things you need to pay attention to:

the 1st is LOCATION, then as number 2 comes LOCATION, and then last but not least number 3 is LOCATION.

Seriously, your shop / Mall / Hotel / Resto can be absolutely crap, as long as location is right, it will still be a winner. Why the ramshackle KAD SUAN KAEW does still attract some customers (including myself when I am in CM) ? because its location is great, easy to get to, located on a main artery, near university, many hotels and such.... nobody would go there anymore if it would be located inconveniently.

as for the PROMENADA: I only saw the images attached to the googlemaps, and it actually looks pleasant, concept-wise a bit like MEGA BANGNA or MALL of ASIA / Manila.

But at a location that is so poor, I doubt it will attract enough customers to survive, for the time being. change of concept or not - the location is the major nail to the coffin.

who is the operator of the Mall ? I would be surprised to learn it is Central or THE MALL group - they (usually!) are professional in the way they conduct their business. maybe a smaller, inexperienced devceloper ?

business plan ? I doubt a lot of REALISTIC business plans do exist in Thailand, to be honest.

We have examples of such "destined to fail" - places here in Bangkok too, like the huge mall at Srinagarindra Road a few KM up from Seacon towards Ramkhamhaeng - it probably sees less customers a day than the local 7eleven a few doors down. no idea if it is still operating at this moment.

Edited by siam2007
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For what it is worth, the expat businesses in Pattaya do not seem to be doing well either - at least according to the TV Pattaya forum. There seems to be a tourist slowdown all over Thailand, rather than just in Chiang Mai.

Need to get out and see ALL of Thailand. Expats numbers are DOWN in Spades. Chiang Mai ain't special in this.

Not sure if this is correct. I assume you are referring to Expats as foreigners living in Thailand (excl tourists). I have no stats but my impression is that the number of foreigners living in Thailand is up, is certainly up for the province Chiang Mai.

Chiang Mai is not all of Thailand only a small part. Western expats in the other major parts of Thailand is down. Tourist numbers are also down. Even the so-called QUALITY TOURIST. Will they return ? Time will tell.

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Siam2007,

Did you also look how many new condos, condotels, and new housing developments are in the area of Promenada and along the roads running east from the area?

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For what it is worth, the expat businesses in Pattaya do not seem to be doing well either - at least according to the TV Pattaya forum. There seems to be a tourist slowdown all over Thailand, rather than just in Chiang Mai.

Need to get out and see ALL of Thailand. Expats numbers are DOWN in Spades. Chiang Mai ain't special in this.

Not sure if this is correct. I assume you are referring to Expats as foreigners living in Thailand (excl tourists). I have no stats but my impression is that the number of foreigners living in Thailand is up, is certainly up for the province Chiang Mai.

Chiang Mai is not all of Thailand only a small part. Western expats in the other major parts of Thailand is down. Tourist numbers are also down. Even the so-called QUALITY TOURIST. Will they return ? Time will tell.

May I ask what your statement is based upon that Western foreigners living in Thailand are down outside of the province of Chiang Mai?

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I hope it continues to stay open, always loved going there. If it can hold on a bit longer, it will serve the multitude of new moobaans that will likely surface in that area of town.

There is no way it will go under. There is too much invested in it. Everything is high-quality and solid, very nice and clean, gardens are well manicured, etc. It's a beautiful place. Yes it can be considered a failure as it stands but some investors will come along and reinvent it. There is no way it will become another vacant, failed business.

So many things were wrong from the start; besides the business plan, even small details. For example I always hear Thais complain that there are no water sprayers in the toilets and they don't like using the toilets there even though they are very clean. How did they miss that?

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For what it is worth, the expat businesses in Pattaya do not seem to be doing well either - at least according to the TV Pattaya forum. There seems to be a tourist slowdown all over Thailand, rather than just in Chiang Mai.

Need to get out and see ALL of Thailand. Expats numbers are DOWN in Spades. Chiang Mai ain't special in this.

Not sure if this is correct. I assume you are referring to Expats as foreigners living in Thailand (excl tourists). I have no stats but my impression is that the number of foreigners living in Thailand is up, is certainly up for the province Chiang Mai.

Chiang Mai is not all of Thailand only a small part. Western expats in the other major parts of Thailand is down. Tourist numbers are also down. Even the so-called QUALITY TOURIST. Will they return ? Time will tell.

Do you have a source for your assertion that western exppat numbers are down?

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Siam2007,

Did you also look how many new condos, condotels, and new housing developments are in the area of Promenada and along the roads running east from the area?

hml367,

no, because, as I mentioned, I have not been to CM for some years. I am not aware that there are plenty of new Condo buildings. But there must be a reason why the PROMENADA MALL sees few customers.

From the concept, it seems to be right and pleasant.

But even if there are many new Condos nearby, CM retail relies heavily on the Tourist Dollars ( I guess 40-50% spent at Central Airport Plaza is from tourists, even though their actual NUMBERS are less than 40-50% , but THEY are the ones to spend, whereas many Thais or Expats rather go there just to dine and spend time window-shopping or buy groceries - I speak from my own habit here in BKK).

If you live in this area as an Expat, you probably are tired of going to the Mall every now and then, and will probably only patronize the RIMPING branch there on a frequent basis.

But no matter how, for sure I will have a look at the place once I visit CM again...... hope it is still open then.

Not sure if the planned "kiddy" concept" works. this more sounds like a desperate try to survive.

there is a "kiddy concept" Mall with entertainment in Jakarta too, which is called "MoA" (Mall of Indonesia) in the affluent Kelapa Gading area, and while it is very busy on Sundays, it is near to deserted on weekdays, as regular customers give it a miss - plenty of other options, same as in CM.

Edited by siam2007

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Siam2007,

Did you also look how many new condos, condotels, and new housing developments are in the area of Promenada and along the roads running east from the area?

hml367,

no, because, as I mentioned, I have not been to CM for some years. I am not aware that there are plenty of new Condo buildings. But there must be a reason why the PROMENADA MALL sees few customers.

From the concept, it seems to be right and pleasant.

But even if there are many new Condos nearby, CM retail relies heavily on the Tourist Dollars ( I guess 40-50% spent at Central Airport Plaza is from tourists, even though their actual NUMBERS are less than 40-50% , but THEY are the ones to spend, whereas many Thais or Expats rather go there just to dine and spend time window-shopping or buy groceries - I speak from my own habit here in BKK).

If you live in this area as an Expat, you probably are tired of going to the Mall every now and then, and will probably only patronize the RIMPING branch there on a frequent basis.

But no matter how, for sure I will have a look at the place once I visit CM again...... hope it is still open then.

Not sure if the planned "kiddy" concept" works. this more sounds like a desperate try to survive.

there is a "kiddy concept" Mall with entertainment in Jakarta too, which is called "MoA" (Mall of Indonesia) in the affluent Kelapa Gading area, and while it is very busy on Sundays, it is near to deserted on weekdays, as regular customers give it a miss - plenty of other options, same as in CM.

Which is why the Chinese interested to buy the building are keen to see it turn into a Kiddo / enrichment mall centre of CM

When there are enough ballet, maths tuition, children gym , swimming classes , language enrichment , the mall will be perpetually packed with kids and parents to and fro ...I think they are looking at the tenant mix and deciding who to kick out and bring in

Most of the shop spaces are ideal for internal modifications of classrooms

Hahahhah :) have you how many classes a kid can get enrolled with ...just see the mummy's group of thai women :)

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