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JLT

Promenada - The Beginning of The End?

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Siam2007,

Did you also look how many new condos, condotels, and new housing developments are in the area of Promenada and along the roads running east from the area?

hml367,

no, because, as I mentioned, I have not been to CM for some years. I am not aware that there are plenty of new Condo buildings. But there must be a reason why the PROMENADA MALL sees few customers.

From the concept, it seems to be right and pleasant.

But even if there are many new Condos nearby, CM retail relies heavily on the Tourist Dollars ( I guess 40-50% spent at Central Airport Plaza is from tourists, even though their actual NUMBERS are less than 40-50% , but THEY are the ones to spend, whereas many Thais or Expats rather go there just to dine and spend time window-shopping or buy groceries - I speak from my own habit here in BKK).

If you live in this area as an Expat, you probably are tired of going to the Mall every now and then, and will probably only patronize the RIMPING branch there on a frequent basis.

But no matter how, for sure I will have a look at the place once I visit CM again...... hope it is still open then.

Not sure if the planned "kiddy" concept" works. this more sounds like a desperate try to survive.

there is a "kiddy concept" Mall with entertainment in Jakarta too, which is called "MoA" (Mall of Indonesia) in the affluent Kelapa Gading area, and while it is very busy on Sundays, it is near to deserted on weekdays, as regular customers give it a miss - plenty of other options, same as in CM.

Which is why the Chinese interested to buy the building are keen to see it turn into a Kiddo / enrichment mall centre of CM

When there are enough ballet, maths tuition, children gym , swimming classes , language enrichment , the mall will be perpetually packed with kids and parents to and fro ...I think they are looking at the tenant mix and deciding who to kick out and bring in

Most of the shop spaces are ideal for internal modifications of classrooms

Hahahhah :) have you how many classes a kid can get enrolled with ...just see the mummy's group of thai women :)

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siam2007,

I am not trying to argue, yet I have a hard time believing 40 to 50 percent of sales at Centrail Airport Plaza is from tourists.

Just to qualify for VIP parking at Centrail Airport Plaza is 300,000 spent in Robinson's per year.

At any rate, I would think with the development around the area of Promenada and the great amount of development to the East, including the rumored new airport, which is probably a fantasy anyway, there was at least some planning before construction.

I don't think any posts I have seen on ThaiVisa, obviously there could be many I didn't see, were as a result of reliable "inside" information. It just doesn't seem that inside information in Thailand is available to someone that posts on ThaiVisa.

Edited by hml367

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siam2007,

I am not trying to argue, yet I have a hard time believing 40 to 50 percent of sales at Centrail Airport Plaza is from tourists.

Just to qualify for VIP parking at Centrail Airport Plaza is 300,000 spent in Robinson's per year.

siam2007 is WAY off base on his numbers! 40-50% of sales are from tourists??? Come on.... I would say more like 80% of sales are from Thais.

And hml367 - another option for VIP parking at Airport Central Plaza is 5 million THB on long-term deposit at Kasikorn Bank.

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The ideas of those who make the decisions was to transform Chiang Mai into some sort of cultural capital of Thailand, a sort of yuppies paradise, with nature trekking, expensive tours, golf and tennis courts for the well to do, the abundance of expensive high rise hotels, it`s temples being major tourist attractions, posh shopping facilities and expectations of enticing rich Thais and foreigners to invest in the high end property markets, transforming traditional massage parlours into spas and rip off VIP body to body massage clubs.

Really? I always thought the plan of he who made the decisions was to make Chiang Mai a gambling Mecca: Thaksin Revives Gamble On Casinos rolleyes.gif

I am not seeing "the abundance of expensive high rise hotels", the only two that fit that description are the Las Vegas style concrete monoliths of the Shangri La and Le Meridien. There was much un-confirmed suspicion at the time that these were built with an "informed expectation" that the Casino would be coming soon. The other down-town high rise hotels are not in the same league, being much older and pre-dating any such comprehensive plans for Chiang Mai. Many are three star at best and catering to budget tourists.

In stark contrast, most other five star properties that really do cater for affluent visitors wanting the Chiang Mai experience are all low rise resort or boutique style hotels, much more in keeping with the original ambiance of Chiang Mai. e.g. Four Seasons, Dara Dhevi, 137 Pillars, Rachamankha, Anantara(ex-chedi) plus may, many more.

After Thaksin's departure and the subsequent political crisis I'm not sure there are any decision makers with a clear vision of how Chiang Mai should develop. Quite the contrary, the last few years developments has been everyone doing what they want without any control or planning. Just take the disaster that is Rinkham intersection as an example; the problem is not the developments themselves, but the fact they were allowed to proceed without first having a city plan and putting adequate infrastructure in place.

At least Promenada does not suffer from those problems, the infrastructure and access are good, the only question is the location being out of town. It is also much more in keeping with the boutique resort style concept than Central Festival or Airport.

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Thinking aloud ....most foreigners may have a misconception about monied Asians unless you are used to dealing with them

If Beetlejuice thinks most Thais are poor , while he may not be totally wrong ...it's also important to understand there are a significant base of rich Thais who have a lot of spending power. Most restaurants in Promenada all honesty in Mix , Dukes and Rimping are mostly Thais customers whenever I am there

One just need to be in the wisdom lounge of Kasikorn Bank in most branches on weekends to realize most sitting there sipping the free lattes are not farangs but also Thais.

To qualify for that, you need to have at least a few million baht investments annually or savings balance to keep that membership

It's rather rude to think Thais don't have that spending power. In my time in Chiangmai, I have met some monied people and they are very discreet about their wealth like the Chinese ...poor they certainly are not and they can well afford every thing in the malls

Just curious if anyone knows what's the percentage ratios of those VIP lots :) I think it's also more Thais than foreigners

I am not spending 300k to get a pass :) especially since I drive a Vespa or Honda bike mostly

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@JLT: I think the owner is a Dutch investor who in principle had a good idea to build a retail mall in the 2nd biggest city in Thailand. So the timing and idea was good. However I guess he didn't have much of an idea about what kind of malls Asians like, he could have gone to Singapore/Hong Kong/Shanghai/Tokyo or even Bangkok to get an idea. Not sure how long until they will sell it or do something different with the place. But I'm sure they are loosing money on this project.

Just for the record since I've seen many people incl. on TV state that CM is Thailand second largest city in Thailand, perhaps since the Rose of the North is considered the second capital by some.

Here is some of the numbers I've found

(assuming one is talking population which revelent to retail and not area etc.)

#4 http://www.livingthai.org/census-populations-for-cities-in-thailand.html

#6 by popuation according to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Thailand

#7 http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/thailand-population/major-cities-in-thailand/

#8 http://www.citypopulation.de/Thailand-Cities.html

There's lots of other stats, both newer and older, but I've never seen it listed as #2

thanks for the clarification. I didn't know that it was only somewhere no 6 in Thailand but good you highlight it.

Its made more murky by Thailands description of city. Those top 5 other than chonburi contain areas that are cycling distance from downtown Bangkok.

Note they show Bangkok as only 5 mn. Chiangmai is accpted as the 2nd largest conurbation.

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For what it is worth, the expat businesses in Pattaya do not seem to be doing well either - at least according to the TV Pattaya forum. There seems to be a tourist slowdown all over Thailand, rather than just in Chiang Mai.

The interesting thing about Thai Visa you can hear so many different things that contradict each other. Hear we are hearing about tourists being down. On another thread we are hearing about more flights coming and going into and out of "Chiang Mai."

Just seems like the two don't compliment each other. Can't say about any other place and it doesn't matter as the Promenada is here in Chiang Mai.wai.gif

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For what it is worth, the expat businesses in Pattaya do not seem to be doing well either - at least according to the TV Pattaya forum. There seems to be a tourist slowdown all over Thailand, rather than just in Chiang Mai.

The interesting thing about Thai Visa you can hear so many different things that contradict each other. Hear we are hearing about tourists being down. On another thread we are hearing about more flights coming and going into and out of "Chiang Mai."

Just seems like the two don't compliment each other. Can't say about any other place and it doesn't matter as the Promenada is here in Chiang Mai.wai.gif

It's because people have vested interests. Just like some buy calls and others buy puts on the same security.wink.png

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Coming from a real estate, builder, developer, marketing background, I can't help but wonder to my self,,,,,,,,, Why would any seriously monied investor NOT immediately try and hire the TV Forum Brain Trust to TELL them what , where, when to invest their money. There is so much expressed knowledge herein and all sure and positive info,,,,,, no doubt at all..... It could be mistaken that all of the worlds most intelligent business people are instuctors on Thai Visa. Boy am I lucky to be living in such a neighborhood.

Make that self expressed if you please

Edited by Gonzo the Face
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For what it is worth, the expat businesses in Pattaya do not seem to be doing well either - at least according to the TV Pattaya forum. There seems to be a tourist slowdown all over Thailand, rather than just in Chiang Mai.

The interesting thing about Thai Visa you can hear so many different things that contradict each other. Hear we are hearing about tourists being down. On another thread we are hearing about more flights coming and going into and out of "Chiang Mai."

Just seems like the two don't compliment each other. Can't say about any other place and it doesn't matter as the Promenada is here in Chiang Mai.wai.gif

It's because people have vested interests. Just like some buy calls and others buy puts on the same security.wink.png

They can buy them at home on their computer plus they can buy stocks. When did Chiang Mai become such a business center that they had to open the airport 24 hours a day and bring in more flights?cheesy.gifcheesy.gif

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I know it was "Wan Dek aka Children's day" today but the Prom was packed to the rafters and not a car park to be found (I made one though).

Very lively atmosphere today.

Don't go righting her off just yet. Think you may be surprised that these "investors" actually knew what they were doing. Long term.

I for one welcome it in amongst the other soulless malls in town.

You couldn't get near the place last night, 10/1... They were parking out on 1141 because the lots were full... Live music on the stage and celebration going on until after 11:00pm...

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The ideas of those who make the decisions was to transform Chiang Mai into some sort of cultural capital of Thailand, a sort of yuppies paradise, with nature trekking, expensive tours, golf and tennis courts for the well to do, the abundance of expensive high rise hotels, it`s temples being major tourist attractions, posh shopping facilities and expectations of enticing rich Thais and foreigners to invest in the high end property markets, transforming traditional massage parlours into spas and rip off VIP body to body massage clubs.

Really? I always thought the plan of he who made the decisions was to make Chiang Mai a gambling Mecca: Thaksin Revives Gamble On Casinos rolleyes.gif

I am not seeing "the abundance of expensive high rise hotels", the only two that fit that description are the Las Vegas style concrete monoliths of the Shangri La and Le Meridien. There was much un-confirmed suspicion at the time that these were built with an "informed expectation" that the Casino would be coming soon. The other down-town high rise hotels are not in the same league, being much older and pre-dating any such comprehensive plans for Chiang Mai. Many are three star at best and catering to budget tourists.

In stark contrast, most other five star properties that really do cater for affluent visitors wanting the Chiang Mai experience are all low rise resort or boutique style hotels, much more in keeping with the original ambiance of Chiang Mai. e.g. Four Seasons, Dara Dhevi, 137 Pillars, Rachamankha, Anantara(ex-chedi) plus may, many more.

After Thaksin's departure and the subsequent political crisis I'm not sure there are any decision makers with a clear vision of how Chiang Mai should develop. Quite the contrary, the last few years developments has been everyone doing what they want without any control or planning. Just take the disaster that is Rinkham intersection as an example; the problem is not the developments themselves, but the fact they were allowed to proceed without first having a city plan and putting adequate infrastructure in place.

At least Promenada does not suffer from those problems, the infrastructure and access are good, the only question is the location being out of town. It is also much more in keeping with the boutique resort style concept than Central Festival or Airport.

Just like all the other amazing projects that were planned for Chiang Mai, such as the rumoured Disneyland style theme park, the northern Thailand to China extended route 3 freeway via Laos to China that was going to bring tourism, business and prosperity to the region and the ski slopes theme park that never transpired.

Chiang Mai is the 2nd largest city in Thailand, yet it has no proper organised public transport system of any kind. There are only taxis, limited city buses and no trains. A few years ago a decision was made to purchase a fleet of up to date state of the art air-conditioned buses and run them on several routes. The fares were going to cost 10 baht and run to a frequency of 15 minutes. but for some reasons those too did not transpire. Instead the authorities seem to push ahead and throw billions of bahts into schemes that are not wanted or needed and play no major roles in the infrastructural system of the city.

As regards the Shinawatra dynasty, my wife`s family believe that the non progress of Chiang Mai is political, because this region is the Shinawatra constituency and those that make most of the decisions in Bangkok are bias and therefore the stagnant nature of Chiang Mai is deliberate policy.

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One just need to be in the wisdom lounge of Kasikorn Bank in most branches on weekends to realize most sitting there sipping the free lattes are not farangs but also Thais.

To qualify for that, you need to have at least a few million baht investments annually or savings balance to keep that membership

1Mbht is only $30k

I doubt any American in CM couldn't find 2-3M bht.

Not that you would want to bring that into Thailand at the moment.

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It's likely a laundering operation, and they couldn't care less if they have actual customers. In fact, the fewer, the better for them.

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One just need to be in the wisdom lounge of Kasikorn Bank in most branches on weekends to realize most sitting there sipping the free lattes are not farangs but also Thais.

To qualify for that, you need to have at least a few million baht investments annually or savings balance to keep that membership

1Mbht is only $30k

I doubt any American in CM couldn't find 2-3M bht.

Not that you would want to bring that into Thailand at the moment.

If you see how active the 30 baht dish thread was ...you may form a second opinion

I am sure there are lots of monied Americans living in CM no doubt ...whether they want to park 60-90k USD of their money in Kasikorn to get the parking perk may be another thread altogether :)

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