Offering assistance to a Person severly hurt

[richard_smith237]

This topic has been raised many times... Fear forces some of us to become people we don't like to be...

When this happened in front of me, I was fortunate to be with Thai friends who were policemen and the paranoia of potentially being blamed in such a station was absent.... thus rendering assistance as first on the scene was an easy decision to make.....

A motorcycle rider had hit a sign in the central reservation (he was clearly drunk).

We stopped the car, I ensured the motorcycle rider was not moved (he was in the middle of the road), my friends called an ambulance, I got other onlookers to use their phones as flashlights and divert traffic (I remember being fairly surprised people responded to my instructions / requests).... I ensured he was breathing and had a pulse... his face was quite bloody, the back of his scalp was missing, he was drifting in and out of consciousness, I tried to reassure him, I was quite relieved not to have to resuscitate....

The ambulance arrived, we drove off with no questions asked...

We actually did a u-turn to go back and help and felt better for doing so, I'd have felt terrible if we had driven on.

I'd like to think I would always help - that said, each situation must be judged and evaluated individually... I won't risk danger to myself or my family when considering assistance.

(I have a dash cam on my car which would show I was not involved in the accident in the first place).

Edited January 11, 2015 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

I won't get involved here for a few different reasons. At most I'll call the police and the ambulance I have saved in my phone. Then I'm stepping away.

Also, with the incredibly high HIV rate up north, I'm not trying to get myself covered in stranger blood.

I'm with you on that.

When I had a m'bike accident and was lying on the ground bleeding, no one tried to administer first aid to me, but someone called an ambulance and I was taken to hospital.

Even the cop that came only asked me for my driver's licence.

It's a foreign country, and such matters are best left to them. If they won't help, why should I/ we? However, if the victim was obviously bleeding to death, and no one was helping, I'd do something to stop the bleeding, but that's all. The rest would be up to the ambulance crew.

It'd be different if it were a farang lying on the ground- for starters, they are unlikely to be able to sue me for alleged negligence.

BTW, when I had my orientation course in Saudi, the first thing they told us was if we witnessed an accident we should run away as fast as possible, and if we were in a taxi that was in a collision, throw the fare at the driver and run away as fast as possible. To get involved would be an admission of guilt.

you'd help a foreigner but not a Thai?.... there is something off with this post... a dash racist ? .. but mostly its similar to a number of other posts (in this thread and in others on a similar topic) where people have forgotten their humanity...

That said - Fear rules the mind - out of fear of taking the blame I too would be scared to offer help in somewhere such as Saudi but feel that similar fears are somewhat irrational in Thailand.

Perhaps if someone could offer first hand information of when they helped as an innocent bystander and fell foul to unsubstantiated blame it would be easier to realistically evaluate the risks... barstool stories, I heard this, someone told me that happened etc are always fundamentally flawed approaches in their provision of reliable information...

[thaibeachlovers]

BTW, when I had my orientation course in Saudi, the first thing they told us was if we witnessed an accident we should run away as fast as possible, and if we were in a taxi that was in a collision, throw the fare at the driver and run away as fast as possible. To get involved would be an admission of guilt.

Very funny.

Wouldn't it be more humane to make sure the poor blighter was alive and then run.

No. What difference would it make if you were not going to do anything anyway? You have obviously never been to Saudi to even ask.

Their culture is that everything is written, so when a Saudi makes a mistake it's OK, but when an infidel is involved in any way, it's their fault. Hypocrisy in the extreme.

[thaibeachlovers]

I won't get involved here for a few different reasons. At most I'll call the police and the ambulance I have saved in my phone. Then I'm stepping away.

Also, with the incredibly high HIV rate up north, I'm not trying to get myself covered in stranger blood.

I'm with you on that.

When I had a m'bike accident and was lying on the ground bleeding, no one tried to administer first aid to me, but someone called an ambulance and I was taken to hospital.

Even the cop that came only asked me for my driver's licence.

It's a foreign country, and such matters are best left to them. If they won't help, why should I/ we? However, if the victim was obviously bleeding to death, and no one was helping, I'd do something to stop the bleeding, but that's all. The rest would be up to the ambulance crew.

It'd be different if it were a farang lying on the ground- for starters, they are unlikely to be able to sue me for alleged negligence.

BTW, when I had my orientation course in Saudi, the first thing they told us was if we witnessed an accident we should run away as fast as possible, and if we were in a taxi that was in a collision, throw the fare at the driver and run away as fast as possible. To get involved would be an admission of guilt.

you'd help a foreigner but not a Thai?.... there is something off with this post... a dash racist ? .. but mostly its similar to a number of other posts (in this thread and in others on a similar topic) where people have forgotten their humanity...

That said - Fear rules the mind - out of fear of taking the blame I too would be scared to offer help in somewhere such as Saudi but feel that similar fears are somewhat irrational in Thailand.

Perhaps if someone could offer first hand information of when they helped as an innocent bystander and fell foul to unsubstantiated blame it would be easier to realistically evaluate the risks... barstool stories, I heard this, someone told me that happened etc are always fundamentally flawed approaches in their provision of reliable information...

Why is it racist to do the same as Thais would? They won't help another Thai, so why should I? I assume the reason they won't help is because they would then be responsible for what happened.

I'd help a foreigner, as they wouldn't be able to sue me, if they were that sort of person, and I expect they would be more likely to appreciate the help than want to profit by it.

if someone could offer first hand information of when they helped as an innocent bystander and fell foul to unsubstantiated blame

Unlikely to hear such stories, as most wouldn't help.

BTW, is there a good Samaritan law in Thailand- that might make a difference?

[ATF]

Regardless of the law or being sued most of the accidents you will come across involve severe head injury from not wearing a helmet.

There is basically nothing you can do in this situation except wrap a bandage around the head and most people don't walk around with bandages.

I've pulled a few people out of crashed cars but their injuries were not immediately life threatening but they could have been bleeding internally.

The reason I believe Thais don't want you to get involved is that they feel they are controlling the situation and they don't want anyone to interfere.

If I see an accident I always stop and see if the person is breathing and if they are I leave the Thais to it.

[richard_smith237]

Why is it racist to do the same as Thais would? They won't help another Thai, so why should I? I assume the reason they won't help is because they would then be responsible for what happened.

I'd help a foreigner, as they wouldn't be able to sue me, if they were that sort of person, and I expect they would be more likely to appreciate the help than want to profit by it.

if someone could offer first hand information of when they helped as an innocent bystander and fell foul to unsubstantiated blame

Unlikely to hear such stories, as most wouldn't help.

BTW, is there a good Samaritan law in Thailand- that might make a difference?

Why is it racist to do the same as Thais would?

Regardless of the underlying reasons, deciding whether or not to help someone based on the colour of their skin seems racist to me. Even if the Thai's do this, its still racist...

Its a shame - the people who refuse to help don't help for a few underlying reasons, they have no idea what to do or they are simply selfish.

I have read a number of posts (on previous topics) where people have rendered assistance without negative outcome to them.

[edd]

Regardless of the law or being sued most of the accidents you will come across involve severe head injury from not wearing a helmet.

There is basically nothing you can do in this situation except wrap a bandage around the head and most people don't walk around with bandages.

I've pulled a few people out of crashed cars but their injuries were not immediately life threatening but they could have been bleeding internally.

The reason I believe Thais don't want you to get involved is that they feel they are controlling the situation and they don't want anyone to interfere.

If I see an accident I always stop and see if the person is breathing and if they are I leave the Thais to it

.

First. you can help with head injury, do not remove the crash helmet this might be holding what's left of his skull together, this is a doctor's job in a surgery, and stabilise the neck, etc.

But your statement "dragged people out of cars"

And then you caused more damage than the crash did.

If it's inconvenient for other cars, tuff let them wait.

People first.

Advice, take a first aid course.

In the UK you can not be prosecuted for tiring to help if you are NOT trained.

You CAN be prosecuted if you are trained and make a mistake causing more injury.

Edited January 12, 2015 by edd

[ATF]

edd, on 12 Jan 2015 - 14:17, said:First. you can help with head injury, do not remove the crash helmet this might be holding what's left of his skull together, this is a doctor's job in a surgery, and stabilise the neck, etc.

But your statement "dragged people out of cars"

And then you caused more damage than the crash did.

If it's inconvenient for other cars, tuff let them wait.

People first.

Advice, take a first aid course.

In the UK you can not be prosecuted for tiring to help if you are NOT trained.

You CAN be prosecuted if you are trained and make a mistake causing more injury.

I have been trained in first aid and I stated previously not to remove a crash helmet. I dragged people out of cars because the car was so smashed you couldn't open the door. In one case I had to unbolt the driver's seat because the guy was wedged between the steering wheel and the seat. But in each case I made sure that I wasn't moving someone who had fractured their back or pelvis. When there's a tankful of gas leaking all over the road decisions need to be made and everyone I dragged out of a car could walk after I got them out.

The first time I dragged people out of a car was when I was nine years old because no one could get inside to free the people's legs. My father was a paramedic he was off duty at the time.

[edd]

edd, on 12 Jan 2015 - 14:17, said:First. you can help with head injury, do not remove the crash helmet this might be holding what's left of his skull together, this is a doctor's job in a surgery, and stabilise the neck, etc.

But your statement "dragged people out of cars"

And then you caused more damage than the crash did.

If it's inconvenient for other cars, tuff let them wait.

People first.

Advice, take a first aid course.

In the UK you can not be prosecuted for tiring to help if you are NOT trained.

You CAN be prosecuted if you are trained and make a mistake causing more injury.

I have been trained in first aid and I stated previously not to remove a crash helmet. I dragged people out of cars because the car was so smashed you couldn't open the door. In one case I had to unbolt the driver's seat because the guy was wedged between the steering wheel and the seat. But in each case I made sure that I wasn't moving someone who had fractured their back or pelvis. When there's a tankful of gas leaking all over the road decisions need to be made and everyone I dragged out of a car could walk after I got them out.

The first time I dragged people out of a car was when I was nine years old because no one could get inside to free the people's legs. My father was a paramedic he was off duty at the time.

Every situation is different and actions have to be assessed and modified to suite.

These comments were of a general nature directed to any one that felt that they wanted to help.

Not as a critecism directed directly at you.

More severe injuries have been caused by well meaning helpers than you would believe.

Everyone should take a first aid course or periodic refresher course, including me.

But now I'm probably to old.

[mike2011]

8 years back i walked down a side soi in the dark around 8 PM and heard calls for help. A tall and elderly man had fallen and hit his head on concrete. Thais drove and walked happily by. I am not trained to assist but at least I could check if he is conscious and stop a passing farang on a motorbike. He got the ambulance and a few minutes later the man was taken there.

I waited for an hour and then walked to the hospital to see if he is ok. At the hospital I met his Thai wife who told me that he was living three doors further on from the place where he had dropped. It was a medical condition, drinking had not been the cause. Luckily he had insurance and all was ok. I met the couple later in a supermarket and i was glad that the huge who yet was so fragile was ok.

My decision to help was not based on an analysis of the situation. It was simply what I leared when I grew up. The episode also told me something about Thai society and the real face of it. The smoothness, politeness, smiles etc. fade quickly when you see people just walking buy. I remember some 'taxing' looks by the usual motortaxi drivers and the like. While I had only been able to get him to the hospital, there is a chance that i also was helpful in stopping him being robbed.

I think there is no solution to this problem/situation and I can only hope that I will be lucky the moment I need help.

[thaibeachlovers]

edd, on 12 Jan 2015 - 14:17, said:First. you can help with head injury, do not remove the crash helmet this might be holding what's left of his skull together, this is a doctor's job in a surgery, and stabilise the neck, etc.

But your statement "dragged people out of cars"

And then you caused more damage than the crash did.

If it's inconvenient for other cars, tuff let them wait.

People first.

Advice, take a first aid course.

In the UK you can not be prosecuted for tiring to help if you are NOT trained.

You CAN be prosecuted if you are trained and make a mistake causing more injury.

I have been trained in first aid and I stated previously not to remove a crash helmet. I dragged people out of cars because the car was so smashed you couldn't open the door. In one case I had to unbolt the driver's seat because the guy was wedged between the steering wheel and the seat. But in each case I made sure that I wasn't moving someone who had fractured their back or pelvis. When there's a tankful of gas leaking all over the road decisions need to be made and everyone I dragged out of a car could walk after I got them out.

The first time I dragged people out of a car was when I was nine years old because no one could get inside to free the people's legs. My father was a paramedic he was off duty at the time.

Every situation is different and actions have to be assessed and modified to suite.

These comments were of a general nature directed to any one that felt that they wanted to help.

Not as a critecism directed directly at you.

More severe injuries have been caused by well meaning helpers than you would believe.

Everyone should take a first aid course or periodic refresher course, including me.

But now I'm probably to old.

No one that can walk unaided is too old to do a first aid course. There's more to first aid than CPR.

[thaibeachlovers]

Regardless of the law or being sued most of the accidents you will come across involve severe head injury from not wearing a helmet.

There is basically nothing you can do in this situation except wrap a bandage around the head and most people don't walk around with bandages.

I've pulled a few people out of crashed cars but their injuries were not immediately life threatening but they could have been bleeding internally.

The reason I believe Thais don't want you to get involved is that they feel they are controlling the situation and they don't want anyone to interfere.

If I see an accident I always stop and see if the person is breathing and if they are I leave the Thais to it

.

First. you can help with head injury, do not remove the crash helmet this might be holding what's left of his skull together, this is a doctor's job in a surgery, and stabilise the neck, etc.

But your statement "dragged people out of cars"

And then you caused more damage than the crash did.

If it's inconvenient for other cars, tuff let them wait.

People first.

Advice, take a first aid course.

In the UK you can not be prosecuted for tiring to help if you are NOT trained.

You CAN be prosecuted if you are trained and make a mistake causing more injury.

Yes, it's a barking rule, but only in the nanny states,

I am a registered nurse, but in the hospital I was not permitted to resuscitate a child as I was not specifically paediatric qualified. They wouldn't even include resuscitating a child in the CPR course we had to do every year.

Then, no nurse ( even female ) was permitted to comfort a child with a cuddle because of the fear of being accused of child molestation. The west has gone insane with all this PC crap.

[wooloomooloo]

I still have my first aid certificate from my scouting days dated 21 February 1978 and I remember it like yesterday. Straight into the recovery position was the best training I ever received.

[balo]

I have seen Thais helping injured people in the streets several times, and even calling the ambulance. I do not believe all Thais will avoid getting involved when they see an accident.

[thaibeachlovers]

I still have my first aid certificate from my scouting days dated 21 February 1978 and I remember it like yesterday. Straight into the recovery position was the best training I ever received.

I hope you check the victims spine first. If they have a spinal injury, rolling them might lead to paralysis.

[ToddinChonburi]

If you really want the correct answer you should contact a lawyer. Everything I have been told is to stay out of it. The police can make you responsible for the person and have to pay the doctor bills. once again we should ask the Lawyer on this one.

[ToddinChonburi]

I tried to find in ask the lawyer unsuccessfully so I just ask them the ? Hopefully we will get a clear answer to this ?

[kiniyow]

A clear answer was given to me by a Thai Lawyer several years ago...Don't touch them or try to assist them in any way..Your Not qualified to assist

[petercool]

The only exception I know to that last post is in situations where a Policeman asks you to help in some way and then it can be against the law NOT to to assist.

[Tokay]

I once saved a little kid from getting hit by a speeding pick up truck. I was jogging, the mother wasn't paying attention and the kid was on his bike in the road. I lunged out and grabbed the kid and had to jump away to avoid getting hit by the truck who clearly didn't see any of us. I landed on my side, the kid did too and it put a little scrap on his elbow. The bike was smashed by the truck (that did not stop). The mother when nuts ON ME, called the police and tried like hell to get money from me. She wanted ME to replace the bike, pay for his trip to the hospital to check his little scratch, and pay 20,000 for the hassle. This is after I saved his life!

I didn't pay, told her to sue me in court and told the policeman kindly to contact my lawyer, as this was not a criminal matter. That was the last I ever heard of it. This was years back, but it was one more lesson learned in a long line of lessons about getting involved with anything in Thailand. Next time I see something like that, I'm letting natural selection run its course. I admit, I have become very jaded living in Thailand over the years, but you really have no choice when most of the locals see you as a target or walking ATM. To say I have lost a little humanity would not wrong. Truth be told, I've lost a lot living here. But this is life in a 3rd world country, and if it comes down to me or them, I'm going to choose me 100% of the time.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Tokay

[ToddinChonburi]

No laws to protect you here so help at your own risk.