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Crackdown On "farang" Teachers


george

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I have to say this is a good move... teachers with no qualfications have no business working in Thailand.. it's about time they cleaned this up.

The only people who should be scared are the ones with no real degree and no formal teaching qualifications.. about time they sorted out the backpacker teachers here.

Edited by VanZam
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I am writing from Boulder, Colorado, where the locals are all rejoicing in the recent arrest.

What I think is being overlooked- unless I didn't read so carefully- is that background checks are useless when the police don't know who committed the crime. The police had a much more difficult time solving this case, then in reeling in the accused.

So, the only answer to this issue, in my eyes, is acceptance that the world isn't always a safe place. Acceptance that the guy next door, or the teacher of your kids, might have done something "bad" or "wrong" in the past. And simply hope that such behavior doesn't continue. We can try to protect ourselves, yet all attempts will be truly limited.

I bet if even the most perceptive parents had met this guy they would never have thought what he could do wrong. And, I suspect that this was a one-time crime for this guy. He wasn't exactly some psycho pedophyle who enjoyed playing with kid's private parts, cutting them up, and eating them for dinner. He was just a stupid-arse criminal who was looking for easy money and panicked when his plan didn't unfold the way he expected. More than likely he learned his lesson, which is why he was in BKK working rather than making a living off of kidnapping foreigners in Thailand (which would probably be easy enough to do).

Final analysis: Don't panic. Everything is fine.

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I revoke much of my commentary above. Sorry about that. Just read the latest story on the topic...

he was "a schoolteacher whose worshipful notes described an obsession with a 6-year-old beauty queen he called 'my love, my life.'"

" He told reporters he was with JonBenet when she died in the basement of her Boulder home on Dec. 26, 1996, but that her death was an accident."

He also was interested in other "little girls.":

"Sometimes little girls are closer to me than with their parents or any other person in their lives. When I refer to myself as JonBenet's Closest, maybe now you understand," he wrote in an another message."

And, they claim he might be trying to take credit for a crime he didn't commit:

"

"There have been e-mail confessions in the case before," Wood said. "John Ramsey has received e-mail confessions in the past and nobody was arrested."

Patsy Ramsey's sister said her family was cautious, yet hopeful, about the arrest.

"We are optimistic, but it's wait-and-see," Pamela Paugh said. "We've been patient for nine and a half years, what's a few more months?"

Anyway, my interpretation is changed. Seems the guy's nuts.

But, still sticking by- you'd likely never know if you met him that he'd do such things, background checks wouldn't have kept him from landing the job because he wasn't charged yet, and we need to simly accept that sh-t like this happens.

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I have to say this is a good move... teachers with no qualfications have no business working in Thailand.. it's about time they cleaned this up.

The only people who should be scared are the ones with no real degree and no formal teaching qualifications.. about time they sorted out the backpacker teachers here.

I agree. So what would you say if a teacher applied for a job with a B.S. in Education, more than five years of experience teaching, including several years of overseas teaching experience? Those are John Karr's qualifications.

"All teachers in Thailand must have the same career standard, no matter what nationalities they are. We must now be serious about that," noted Mr. Jakrapob, who is also secretary of Deputy Prime Minister Surakiart Sathirathai.

Right, so here comes the knee jerk and additional mounds of paperwork and of course more budget for the responsible authorities. And in the end, people like Mr. Carr will have impecable qualifications by any standard of assessment. Does Mr. Jakrapob think that psychotic paedophiles are incapable of getting a degree and holding a teaching job back home for a few years? Granted, this might weed out some of the backpackers with BS degrees from the University of Khao San Road, but it cannot be expected to prevent people like Mr. Karr from teaching in Thailand.

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The school that my Son and Daughter attend require all teachers to have a criminal background check already.

This, along with the teachers formal qualifications can be requested for inspection by any parent or guardian of children attending the school.

Quite easy to forge credentials - trip up to Kao San Rd would solve that. I don't think background checks are as good as you might think. :o

As far as the qualifications go Brit, these are thoroughly checked out and the certificate is not just taken at face value. With regards to the background check, i fully agree with you, i would not know if i was looking at a real document or a forged document having never seen one before.

I have one from the Austrian police and it's a piece of paper printed on a laser printer. I could do the whole thing in Word in 10 minutes. So... the originals are pretty easy to forge. At least Austrian ones :D

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Incidentally, it seems from the articles that it isn't the qualifications of the guy that should have been an issue, but his criminal record. Why isn't there a call for police background checks? Answer: It simply wouldn't work in the "plan at the last minute" world of Thai schools.

In the case of Karr, he does not have a criminal record yet, as he has not been convicted.

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The UK have only just started to get to grips with the background checks on staff in schools following some high profile lapses (knee & elbow jerk I think). All staff now have to have Crminal Record (CRB) checks, for which you are given a certificate if passed. It would certainly be easy enough for the Thai's to insist upon production of this certificate and make follow up checks in the UK if required. Not sure what systems are in place in US or Oz etc. Only this robust approach will prevent undesireable individuals fleeing to Thailand to find a safe teaching haven.

Follow up checks in the UK ?..you gotta be joking. I know of an English teacher at Ramhamkaeng Uni who used his position to drug rape a teenage student just before he returned to Nottingham. I emailed the details to the Nottingham Police, Nottingham education dept., and a local Nottingham newspaper in that order and do you know what . They just did'nt want to hear about it. I even gave his name to them.

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I hate to break it to you but I highly suspect this is a 60-20-20 issue. The same thing was said around a year ago and nothing came of it. Simply anything they do to it will cost them money and that means problems for the people who are taking their cut. That is not to mention how Thaksin feels about educated people.

I am still waiting for the new bus routes to start too.

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Fellas:

Correct me if I am wrong but in order to teach in the USA isn't it required to have a college degree and then a recognized teaching license from a state? Normally it takes almost 5 years of education to be granted this license. And, this license must be renwed every 4 or 5 years with additional course work. That has been my experience. I even hold a Masters degree in education. To me the teaching license holds more weight than a masters degree. When I was working in Thailand the Ministries wanted some type of degree that said "Education" on it. Didn't care where it was from as long as it said "Education" on it. "Education in Dog Training" could have put you in a 3rd grade classroom. The teaching license meant nothing to them. Schools can get online and check the validity of teachers' licenses through the Department of Education in the state in which the license was granted. It is simple because each license is numbered. This would weed out a lot of people. Of course, this would leave a huge shortage in the teaching profession in Thailand. But, until the powers to be recognize that a teaching license holds a lot more weight than a college degree or masters degree this hiring of under qualified, uneducated teachers, and non teachers will continue. Of course this doesn't mean that even though you have these credentials you will be a good teacher. at least it shows that you have some backgorund and a desire to teach. There are some very scary people in the classrooms in Thailand who have no right working near children. Furthermore, it is even worse that some people with no education qualifications get moved up into management positions in these schools. Scary indeed.

Sorry. This was a change from my usual posts about video games.

Turok

Edited by Turok
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Incidentally, it seems from the articles that it isn't the qualifications of the guy that should have been an issue, but his criminal record. Why isn't there a call for police background checks? Answer: It simply wouldn't work in the "plan at the last minute" world of Thai schools.

In the case of Karr, he does not have a criminal record yet, as he has not been convicted.

As I understand it, Karr did have a criminal record, in Califorrnia. He had been arrested for child porography on his computer, posted bail and skipped the state. This happened before Jon Benet's death. But such a record would be available to schools if they did a criminal background check. As it is, there is an outstanding warrant for his arrest in California.

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Fellas:

Correct me if I am wrong but in order to teach in the USA isn't it required to have a college degree and then a recognized teaching license from a state? Normally it takes almost 5 years of education to be granted this license.

Yeah and I am sure that someone with those qualifications will work for a mere $500 to $700 a month if he or she can earn $3,500 or more elsewhere and come here every 6 months on a vacation.

You get what you pay for!

My suggestions is issue Visas with up to 5 years validity, doing medical and Criminal checks but, remain reasonable with the requirements. After all, if the Thai men of this nation were required to show a annual 800,000 Baht retirement income 95% would be deported immediately.

Everytime I see a problem within this nation, it seesm that it can be tracked to GREED!

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In MOST countries teaching is an honorable profession. Unfortunately here in Thailand there are many bottom feeders who have chosen teaching as a means to make a meager living just to be able to stay in Thailand. If they do have any credentials at all, they are certainly false. If I were a teacher I would welcome higher standards and be happy to see the semi illiterate phonies thrown out of the country.

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The UK have only just started to get to grips with the background checks on staff in schools following some high profile lapses (knee & elbow jerk I think). All staff now have to have Crminal Record (CRB) checks, for which you are given a certificate if passed. It would certainly be easy enough for the Thai's to insist upon production of this certificate and make follow up checks in the UK if required. Not sure what systems are in place in US or Oz etc. Only this robust approach will prevent undesireable individuals fleeing to Thailand to find a safe teaching haven.

I doubt if the UK will give these records, they still have that data protection act...

Anyway considering the number of Italian, chinese teachers I donot mind if they kick the ones out who donot even speak English. They can akways employ teachers from Lao as seeing how wekk Laos girls speak English they must have significent better teachers there. I cannot believe that guys being able to speak English, native or not, should be used as teachers if due to their local accent nobody understands them Goes for Indians, some australians, Americans as well,,, My daughter had a chinese lady but nobody understood her so in the end the school removed her...

Anyway hiw many teachers will have fake documents? Like others??

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I am applying for a Residency/Visa/Work Permit overseas and need to show that I have no criminal record in the UK. How can I do this?

You will need to contact the Data Protection section at your nearest police headquarters for information about making a ‘Subject Access Request’ under section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998.

The Metropolitan Police receive many requests for "certificates of good conduct" or "Police clearance certificates" in relation to visa or work applications in countries outside of the UK. Although the UK police do not issue actual certificates, we are advised that foreign embassies will generally accept a police reply to a Subject Access Request.

Many years I asked this question from the UK embassy and unless it changed it was send us 750 baht and your details and you will get a letter that nothing bad is know about you (ie in the embassy) as that was all they were allowed to say....

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So the schools need to terminate all unapproved teachers, until qualification or meet.

True, but how will the Thais deal with the situation:

Khun A., an incompetent idiot who happens to be in charge of hiring the farang staff, has put off advertising for one or two teachers until the week just before school starts. Khun A. puts the ad in the paper. Teachers apply. When told they need a background check paper, they check with their embassies and are told it will take (1-2 months, fill in the blank with any reasonable number).

Do you think the Thai schools will:

1) Do the right thing and pay overtime and temporary substitutes (who must also have background checks, remember) until the teacher candidates check out, or

2) Employ them anyway and hope everything works out ok?

Even the process of getting a work permit is already so complicated and so much of a joke that most foreign teachers start out by working illegally- there's actually little choice in the matter.

To imagine that Bangkok could become this rigourous in vetting teacher candidates presumes an entire overhaul of the entire visa and work permit system. Desirable, and not impossible, but extremely improbable.

In fact, the real solution to the problem must lie NOT in putting further restrictions and barriers to people getting real work permits. Most people who have real work permits look pretty good on paper- believe me, it's not easy.

To be honest, I can't blame BCC that much. They were down a teacher (nevermind that it was their own fault the previous one left, apparently) and they had to get someone to fill in. Even in the best circumstances, it takes a month or so usually to get someone legally up to speed. What were they supposed to do? There aren't any work-permitted positions in Bangkok for "temporary school substitute at a moment's notice."

Most of the real problem lies in the foreign teacher population who are working illegally for long stretches of time and completely unregulated (and unprotected). The de facto situation must be addressed realistically: either Thailand must lose a large percentage of its foreign teachers because they don't have minimum qualifications or don't earn the standard set for the permit, or some lower standard must be set and regulated which allows those with fewer academic credentials and earning lower salaries to be regulated and vetted and receive work permits and be legal (and also be protected from the abuse they often experience). However, this takes the power away from the Thai school directors and puts it into the law. I can't see that as something they'd really want to have happen.

"Steven"

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1- The story of this Karr guy has nothing to do with his teacher-in-Thailand status.

2- Newspapers quote today that, maybe, this guy is NOT guilty, just pathological liar. By the way, as a nuts guy, he's better in his country than in a Thai school.

The reaction of the Thai authorities is so far from the problem that it's difficult to believe it's just a misunderstanding. They are not so stupid (!?!?).

Probably they take advantage of this case to announce new rules that they would have implemented anyway.

Or it's just that they don't like to hear on CNN on a 24 hrs basis that the Karr guy was in Thailand.

Or it's a against-Taksin-measure, as it's a tendency since a few month. Taksin wanted more and more foreign teachers in Thailand. If authorities tighten the rules, it will be impossible to follow Taksin instruction and, one more time, he'll be humiliated by the administration of his own country.

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Qualifications of foreign teachers in Thailand must meet required standards

There have been thousands of foreigners working for local schools in Thailand, particularly international and language schools, a number of whom entered the kingdom as tourists with no work permits as professional teachers, according to Mr. Jakrapob.

--TNA 2006-08-18

:D

YIPP... to much of them and mostly english :o

to much...

:D

===============================================================

I'm not particularly "pro-English", but what is your point ? ? ? ? ?

Would you rather the kidds learn "English" from someone who hails from South-Carolina, Australia, New Zealand or South-Afica ? ? ? ? ? ?

Come and smell the roses "Lung": an Uncle's judgement is supposed to be sensible & reliable . . . . .

:D

Chock-Dhee-Krahp

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Do any of you guys realise how farang teachers are viewed by Thais?

I worked as a teacher in Thailand for 10 years until I had enough of the bullshit.

No respect given at all by Thai teachers and parents.

If they want to stop getting the farang scum, they had better change their attitude to the farang teacher, and farang in general.

I only know a couple of guys who still teach here after 10years - it really is a <deleted> 'trade' to be in.

Even at university level, the Thais use the pronioun 'man' for the foreign teacher behind their backs(but Ajarn to their face), while many of them go around thinking that they are well respected in Thailand.

There is also a big resentment from Thai teachers as the farang get mega-wages like 30,000 a month.

Background checks are a waste of time - it's so easy for a criminal to get a new passport and identity.

Edited by Neeranam
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True, but how will the Thais deal with the situation:

Khun A., an incompetent idiot who happens to be in charge of hiring the farang staff, has put off advertising for one or two teachers until the week just before school starts. Khun A. puts the ad in the paper. Teachers apply. When told they need a background check paper, they check with their embassies and are told it will take (1-2 months, fill in the blank with any reasonable number).

Do you think the Thai schools will:

1) Do the right thing and pay overtime and temporary substitutes (who must also have background checks, remember) until the teacher candidates check out, or

2) Employ them anyway and hope everything works out ok?

Even the process of getting a work permit is already so complicated and so much of a joke that most foreign teachers start out by working illegally- there's actually little choice in the matter.

To imagine that Bangkok could become this rigourous in vetting teacher candidates presumes an entire overhaul of the entire visa and work permit system. Desirable, and not impossible, but extremely improbable.

In fact, the real solution to the problem must lie NOT in putting further restrictions and barriers to people getting real work permits. Most people who have real work permits look pretty good on paper- believe me, it's not easy.

To be honest, I can't blame BCC that much. They were down a teacher (nevermind that it was their own fault the previous one left, apparently) and they had to get someone to fill in. Even in the best circumstances, it takes a month or so usually to get someone legally up to speed. What were they supposed to do? There aren't any work-permitted positions in Bangkok for "temporary school substitute at a moment's notice."

Most of the real problem lies in the foreign teacher population who are working illegally for long stretches of time and completely unregulated (and unprotected). The de facto situation must be addressed realistically: either Thailand must lose a large percentage of its foreign teachers because they don't have minimum qualifications or don't earn the standard set for the permit, or some lower standard must be set and regulated which allows those with fewer academic credentials and earning lower salaries to be regulated and vetted and receive work permits and be legal (and also be protected from the abuse they often experience). However, this takes the power away from the Thai school directors and puts it into the law. I can't see that as something they'd really want to have happen.

"Steven"

Steven, I have no sympathy for the Thailand schools. Background checks should be conducted on all teachers -- not just Farangs. Running criminal history checks are not that difficult and can be run through Interpol. Too bad that some teachers will be inconvenienced and even possibly discharged. This is a small price to pay for the safety of the children in Thailand, don't you think?

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The Nation version of the story:

Suspect was employed by prestigious schools

Education officials concede that process of checking qualifications has sometimes taken too long

Various authorities yesterday expressed concern that John Mark Karr - a suspect in the 1996 murder of an American child beauty queen - had managed to find teaching jobs in Bangkok.

At the time of his arrest on Wednesday, he had just been given employment by an international school in the Sathorn district.

Before that he was allowed a trial period at two of the country's most prestigious schools - the boys-only Bangkok Christian College and the girls-only St Joseph Convent School.

The Education Ministry's permanent secretary Khunying Kasama Varawarn na Ayutthaya yesterday said she would have a meeting with the International Schools Association of Thailand next week to tighten recruitment of foreign teachers.

She admitted that the ministry had allowed international schools to recruit teachers before an entire check of their qualifications had been completed.

"We relaxed the rules after many international schools complained that the whole process took too long," Kasama said.

She said the Office of Private Education Promotion Commission did general checks on whether applicants have the educational credentials that match the requirements. "The office has contacted foreign universities to verify overseas degrees submitted by applicants."

The office has also cooperated with special-branch police and the National Intelligence Agency to check the history of applicants.

"Normally we receive a response from the special-branch police within three weeks but the overseas institutions have taken longer to respond. When international schools started complaining, we relaxed the rule. Recruitment can be completed first, and if there is any problem we can take action later," Kasama said.

So far, she said, there had never been any problems.

"Generally, persons with criminal records won't be able to pass through immigration checkpoints," she said, but in the wake of Karr's arrest, Kasama planned to ask international schools not to hire any foreign teachers before their qualifications check had been completed.

Anusorn Thaidecha, who heads the Office of Private Education Promotion Commission, added that he would ask immigration police and the Foreign Affairs Ministry to be stricter about granting entries or visas to foreigners.

PM's deputy secretary general Jakrapob Penkair, who is assigned to oversee education matters, said there had in the past been many sexual-abuse accusations against teachers at some international schools.

"They have sex with minors - girls and boys - and they have been arrested," Jakrapob said.

He said all parties must join in preventing undesirable foreigners from getting close to students in Thailand. He added that he was going to raise the issue with the Education Ministry, teacher organisations, parents and international schools.

In a related development, caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said there were relatively few cases of crimes committed by foreigners in Thailand, given the fact that up to 12 million foreign visitors flocked to the country each year. He added that Thai authorities had worked closely with other countries in watching out for people who had been blacklisted.

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Well lets see, the worst part of the year for teachers is February. When teachers who knows one or more of their students failed watch as their grades get padded and moved up the conveyor. So morals and ethics are in conflict with the Thai education system. So why would they want to add cost to a system that works so efficiently by adding morals and ethics by seeking more qualified teachers? The top end teachers hands will be just as tied come February as the low end teachers.

Simply failing students will move up with the rest of their class no mater what level of quality the teacher is. This thread is about face makeup unless the no fail policy is ended, no more no less. Like I said 60-20-20.

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Before that he was allowed a trial period at two of the country's most prestigious schools - the boys-only Bangkok Christian College and the girls-only St Joseph Convent School.

When I worked at StJos Convent, there was a guy who later told me he had never been to school past 12 years of age, and he was only there for 3 months to get a visa and work permit which would made his HUGE drug run safer. Son of a famous East -London gangster, and many convictions. But, he was clean cut with the 'gift of the gab', and maybe more importantly, a VERY good teacher.

He was also teaching Thaksin's daughter!

BTW, I was addicted to drugs when I worked there too. :o

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....and whilst we're at it how about background checks on politicians?

known criminal associations

fraudelent business transactions

evidence of corruption

Lets sweep the country clean of "undesirables"

Thai authorities, though well-intentioned, will continue to miss the mark. They're so easily impressed by appearances that they'll continue to hire those that look impressive (spiffy attire, bogus certificates, etc.) - and pass over those that don't (casual attire, stubble, no fake resumes, etc).

The Thais that bind will never quite grasp the fact that teaching ability rests not in (usually bogus) certificates and James Bond appearances. Perhaps each school could have a silent ballot sort of 'peer review' wherein student leaders and staff 'assess' the abilities and rightousness of each teacher. There should be two main criteria for teachers in Thailand: (A) teaching ability, and

(:o the 'hush hush' topic of whether the teacher is lusting after students.

Peer review could shed light on those - but as time goes by, Thai administrators might get chummy with certain teacher(s) and often chumminess leads to protectiveness. The recent news of Thai teachers getting accused of sexually assaulting several 8 year old students is case in point. Right away the administration firmly sided in defense of the accused teachers - as if the admin knows of all the private things that go on between teachers and imressionable students. In all such cases, the students should be given a threat-free environment to express their concerns - and if the accused are found guilty, the chips should fall heavily.

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Thailand needs teachers to educate the government officiials on how not to be stupid, they are children, something I have discovered after living here a while...............they are like children

Couldn't agree with you more on this :D

The adult corporate classes were a real nightmare to teach. They need clowns in Thailand not educators :D . It amazes me how a group of educated Thai adults in their fifties almost had an orgy over a game suitable for 2-years olds. Needless to say I no longer do corporate.

On the subject of paedophiles, my ex paedophile boss was a B ed + TEFL holder and working for a bilingual school on Sukhumvit for less than 50k - go figure...

Reality is, Thailand is a haven for foreign paedophiles!

:o

Edited by Flow
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Just for the record, Karr was not a qualified teacher in America.

John Karr resume

He actually attended college in Alabama, but left before graduating. During his student teaching, it was observed that he was "too friendly", particularly with the 6 to 7 year old girls in his class. A meeting had been scheduled to discuss the problem, but he didn't show up, and promptly left the school without graduating. He managed to obtain a teaching certificate in California (presumably, by falsifying college records), but his credentials were revoked after his conviction on child pornography charges. He apparently found work as a substitute teacher in Alabama as well. But his lack of a college degree would have prevented him from finding a full-time position anywhere.

Part of the problem with criminal background checks, at least in relation to America, is that it's state law that would have been violated, and the state would have issued a warrant. So, to do a comprehensive background check, you would have to check with all 50 states.

And, as someone else pointed out, if anyone knew that a background check would disqualify him from working abroad, he would find it not so difficult to obtain a new identity, and a new passport.

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I agree. So what would you say if a teacher applied for a job with a B.S. in Education, more than five years of experience teaching, including several years of overseas teaching experience? Those are John Karr's qualifications.

I'd say "When can you start?"

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Checking a Teachers Certificate in Texas is free for anyone to access in Texas at the State Board for Teacher Certification (SBEC) Website. https://secure.sbec.state.tx.us/SBECONLINE/virtcert.asp Just input a name such as Jane A Smith and click on the name for details. Forge all you want...if your not listed you don't have a real Texas certificate. To get one you have already paid the $47 and passed the FBI and Texas Department of Public Safety Background check and if arrest occurs later the certificate will probably be revoked and the status changed on the website. Fingerprinting is done the new electronic digital way. I guess other states have this too and there may be a U.S. teacher clearing house. Texas alone has over 4.4 million students and 300,000 teachers so it takes something like this to keep out the bad apples.

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The government will check records of foreign teachers in Thailand

The government will tightly check records and conducts of foreign teachers in international schools.

Jakrapob Penkair (จักรภพ เพ็ญแข), the prime minister’s deputy secretary-general, said the government needs to protect children after an American teacher was arrested in Bangkok on Thursday for the 1996 killing of a six-year-old girl in Colorado, the United States.

Mr. Jakrapob said officials will be careful not to let the background checks become an infringement on individual’s rights and privacy.

He said all foreign teachers must be able to produce their work permits.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 19 August 2006

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The government will check records of foreign teachers in Thailand

The government will tightly check records and conducts of foreign teachers in international schools.

Jakrapob Penkair (จักรภพ เพ็ญแข), the prime minister’s deputy secretary-general, said the government needs to protect children after an American teacher was arrested in Bangkok on Thursday for the 1996 killing of a six-year-old girl in Colorado, the United States.

Mr. Jakrapob said officials will be careful not to let the background checks become an infringement on individual’s rights and privacy.

He said all foreign teachers must be able to produce their work permits.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 19 August 2006

International schools... not Thai public schools.

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