Thai National Parks ordered to charge foreigners tenfold

[cumgranosalum]

UK students don't pay fees - the government - local authorities foot th bill - some now charge a surcharge directly to the student ....

Now that is rather interesting, as you (and others) have repeatedly claimed before that the UK does not engage in 2 tier pricing because you 'believed' it to be illegal and discriminatory.

However I see you have now conveniently dropped the words 'illegal' and 'discriminatory' regarding this significantly important 2 tier price structure in the UK affecting the 500,000 international students who are able to afford the fees - let alone the possible millions more who cant afford them, and simply say it is 'wrong' and everyone should pay the same. In other words this is simply just your belief...

I assume you agree that the UK Government would not be condoning such treatment of a large number of foreign people by UK Universities if it were either illegal or discriminatory in law. I'm sure also you would also agree that the UK are champions of anti-discrimination legislation, and as as such it must therefore be perfectly legal and non-discriminatory for UK Universities to set these higher fees for International students.

All of which leaves the question of why you have consistently claimed that the Thai system of charging foreigners more than Thai residents is discrimination, when a similar large scale practice in the notoriously 'politically correct' UK is clearly not discrimination.

Not sure I follow the logic here. erhaps you should compare Thai university fees? at least that would be like with like, but even that doesn't relate to tourism and National Parks. I think you're losing the plot here as to what the issues really are. 10 out of 10 for tenacity though

"UK students don't pay fees"

I think you need a reality check! UK students most certainly do pay fees. Students from richer families may pay the fees 'up front', but the majority pay fees by means of the student loan program. These loans are repayable after graduation as soon as the student is in employment and earning more than £17k p/a.

http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/73-of-todays-students-will-still-be-paying-off-their-tuition-fees-in-their-50s-9249258.html

it appears now they do.....

"Student don't have to pay university fees upfront. They can get a tuition fee loan to cover the full cost, which is paid directly to the university or college. The loan does not have to be repaid until the course is finished and the borrower is earning more than £21,000 a year. If they never earn more than that, they won't have to repay a penny."

Exactly - and its not 'now they do' either,,, The student loan system in the UK has been in place for a number of years, at least since 1999 when I was employed in HE - it's nothing new.

Try and keep up - or at least check your facts before making seemingly authoritative statements like "UK students don't have to pay fees -local authorities foot the bill"... Would save you making yourself look quite so foolish.

I had a loan in 1992 but i paid no fees - the fees were a later addition to what students had to pay. ...so how does this relate to the topic? or my question?

[fullnoon]

Such a lovely idea to attract tourists. and it is in full accordance with human rights and doesn't discriminate any people.

The fact is bad enough, what is much worse is the mindset which enables the creation of these weird ideas!!!

[arunsakda]

I made the authoritative post on this topic weeks ago and discussion should have stopped there.

But you must blather on, discrimination, violations of "international law", human rights, I mean come on.So once again, the policy is discriminatory, but unfortunately discrimination is not illegal in Thailand. This is a country where High School students have "SS" tattoos on their forearms and parade around in full Nazi regalia. You think you will be allowed to visit some dirty waterfall without being fleeced? Parking in a dusty lot overrun with minging dogs and reeking of their droppings?

So, If you don't want to pay 10x Thai price, don't go to an NP. If you do not like Thailand's laws and policies, go back to where you came from. Is that difficult to understand?

[cumgranosalum]

I made the authoritative post on this topic weeks ago and discussion should have stopped there.

But you must blather on, discrimination, violations of "international law", human rights, I mean come on.So once again, the policy is discriminatory, but unfortunately discrimination is not illegal in Thailand. This is a country where High School students have "SS" tattoos on their forearms and parade around in full Nazi regalia. You think you will be allowed to visit some dirty waterfall without being fleeced? Parking in a dusty lot overrun with minging dogs and reeking of their droppings?

So, If you don't want to pay 10x Thai price, don't go to an NP. If you do not like Thailand's laws and policies, go back to where you came from. Is that difficult to understand?

could you tell me which part of this is "authoritative"?

[arunsakda]

Thailand might change you but Thailand will never change because of you.

Unfortunately price discrimination based solely on nationality is not illegal in Thailand. It is just a fact.

Deal with it (accept, understand, or ignore).

If you want to live in a society without prejudice and discrimination based on race and nationality I suggest you go elsewhere.

Perhaps Sweden, Iceland, I'm not sure. In Hawaii and Guam they ripoff the Japanese and other Asian tourists by providing a "local discount".

A ripoff none the less.

[arunsakda]

Sorry wrong thread.

[Shadychris]

UK students don't pay fees - the government - local authorities foot th bill - some now charge a surcharge directly to the student ....

Now that is rather interesting, as you (and others) have repeatedly claimed before that the UK does not engage in 2 tier pricing because you 'believed' it to be illegal and discriminatory.

However I see you have now conveniently dropped the words 'illegal' and 'discriminatory' regarding this significantly important 2 tier price structure in the UK affecting the 500,000 international students who are able to afford the fees - let alone the possible millions more who cant afford them, and simply say it is 'wrong' and everyone should pay the same. In other words this is simply just your belief...

I assume you agree that the UK Government would not be condoning such treatment of a large number of foreign people by UK Universities if it were either illegal or discriminatory in law. I'm sure also you would also agree that the UK are champions of anti-discrimination legislation, and as as such it must therefore be perfectly legal and non-discriminatory for UK Universities to set these higher fees for International students.

All of which leaves the question of why you have consistently claimed that the Thai system of charging foreigners more than Thai residents is discrimination, when a similar large scale practice in the notoriously 'politically correct' UK is clearly not discrimination.

Not sure I follow the logic here. erhaps you should compare Thai university fees? at least that would be like with like, but even that doesn't relate to tourism and National Parks. I think you're losing the plot here as to what the issues really are. 10 out of 10 for tenacity though

"UK students don't pay fees"

I think you need a reality check! UK students most certainly do pay fees. Students from richer families may pay the fees 'up front', but the majority pay fees by means of the student loan program. These loans are repayable after graduation as soon as the student is in employment and earning more than £17k p/a.

http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/73-of-todays-students-will-still-be-paying-off-their-tuition-fees-in-their-50s-9249258.html

it appears now they do.....

"Student don't have to pay university fees upfront. They can get a tuition fee loan to cover the full cost, which is paid directly to the university or college. The loan does not have to be repaid until the course is finished and the borrower is earning more than £21,000 a year. If they never earn more than that, they won't have to repay a penny."

Exactly - and its not 'now they do' either,,, The student loan system in the UK has been in place for a number of years, at least since 1999 when I was employed in HE - it's nothing new.

Try and keep up - or at least check your facts before making seemingly authoritative statements like "UK students don't have to pay fees -local authorities foot the bill"... Would save you making yourself look quite so foolish.

I had a loan in 1992 but i paid no fees - the fees were a later addition to what students had to pay. ...so how does this relate to the topic? or my question?

You didnt ask a question - you made a statement. A glaringly incorrect statement. It relates to the topic in as much as in your attempts to further your arguement that Thailand is wrong to allow dual pricing you have previously claimed that 2 tier pricing does not happen and is illegal in the UK. Wrong again. If you are going to put forward arguements based on untruths you must expect to be corrected.

[arunsakda]

Pointless now is it not? Buh Bye.

[fey]

They don't understand why so few foreigners visit Thai nationals parks. Maybe it's because they are such ordinary run down dirty places compared with National Parks in other countries.

My last experience at a Thai national park about 5 years ago was this.

Thai Adult 20 baht, children free. Farang 200 baht.

The parks waterfall barely had any more water than a bathroom shower head. Maybe 300 thais were sitting at the foot of the waterfall in a stream not much bigger than an average home swimming pool.

Loud music being played in the forest campground by drunken thai pickup truck owners, litter everywhere and children begging for money from my wife.

Unless they make their national parks cleaner and kept out the dregs of thai soceity by increasing the Thai price to be the same as the farang price, then that was the last time I'll ever visit a Thai national park. Never again even if they cut the price to zero..

try koh tarutao, a former political prison island with jungle and great coastline. great place. coves with very well equiped bungalows around the shore (500 baht a night though). just giggling female maids and servants around. no thai dudes. maybe some couples from europe. thats it. no backpackers.

went there as a side trip on the boat to ko lipe (which i hated - go figure).

would not mind paying the higher park fees if it meant getting away from the hoards (especially younger people drinking, thai dudes, and others in general that dont have their own thing going on).

just me, the giggling thai servants, and the cove. hope to make it back one day if its not spoiled by now.

there was even a european type lady skinny dipping with bare coconuts. just perving.

[cumgranosalum]

They don't understand why so few foreigners visit Thai nationals parks. Maybe it's because they are such ordinary run down dirty places compared with National Parks in other countries.

My last experience at a Thai national park about 5 years ago was this.

Thai Adult 20 baht, children free. Farang 200 baht.

The parks waterfall barely had any more water than a bathroom shower head. Maybe 300 thais were sitting at the foot of the waterfall in a stream not much bigger than an average home swimming pool.

Loud music being played in the forest campground by drunken thai pickup truck owners, litter everywhere and children begging for money from my wife.

Unless they make their national parks cleaner and kept out the dregs of thai soceity by increasing the Thai price to be the same as the farang price, then that was the last time I'll ever visit a Thai national park. Never again even if they cut the price to zero..

try koh tarutao, a former political prison island with jungle and great coastline. great place. coves with very well equiped bungalows around the shore (500 baht a night though). just giggling female maids and servants around. no thai dudes. maybe some couples from europe. thats it. no backpackers.

went there as a side trip on the boat to ko lipe (which i hated - go figure).

would not mind paying the higher park fees if it meant getting away from the hoards (especially younger people drinking, thai dudes, and others in general that dont have their own thing going on).

just me, the giggling thai servants, and the cove. hope to make it back one day if its not spoiled by now.

there was even a european type lady skinny dipping with bare coconuts. just perving.

It is not a case of the price so much as the DIFFERENTIATION in price that wrangles

[tomacht8]

WOW, 35 Pages.

Another thought.

As in any organization, there are good and evil.

The National Park organization is not only good,

like to protect the forest and the endangered species.

They also hunt for money and power.

So please stop to think National Park Organisation is only good.

I've been told a number of similar stories where the forest department grabbed lands from long term villagers for some very dubious reason. I'm sure most of you heard about this very popular Thai folklore character, Somchai Hood, who steals from the poor to give to the rich ... ;-)

Why you cut my original post?

......popular Thai folklore character....

This is not folklore.

I know those persons affected, personally.

[tomacht8]

WOW, 35 Pages.

Another thought.

As in any organization, there are good and evil.

The National Park organization is not only good,

like to protect the forest and the endangered species.

They also hunt for money and power.

4 Examples

- A good friend of mine (Thai) who lives with his family for 4 generations on a piece of beautiful country land.

The National Park Organisation wants his land, because it is very attractive for tourists.

Since 8 Years he fight in the courts for his land, lose a lot of money and is nearly bankrupt by the court and legal costs.

- In my family environment is another case. The land is farmed for 70 years as a coconut plantation.

The old people have kept the old trees standing and never felled the old trees.

When surveying the land for a paper upgrade one guy from the National Park Organisation said:

“Oh here are 100 years old trees, that is National Park here.”

The only solution is: Cut and down the old trees.

That is the reversal of nature protection, initialized by the National Park Organisation!

- Another organization is well with the National Park people.

They allowed to open an adventure park in the National Park.

Sure against some Kick back money.

- Many local VIP´s are allowed to open resorts and to build houses in National Park Areas.

The ex boss of the DSI is a prominent example.

So please stop to think National Park Organisation is only good.

"The National Park Organisation wants his land, because it is very attractive for tourists.The National Park Organisation wants his land, because it is very attractive for tourists"

.Sorry let me stop you there....this is not true - national parks are neither set up or operated in this way. - your story is based on a false premise....

as far as the other anecdotal stories are concerned - yes - the parks are under threat of encroachment by unscrupulous "powerful and rich" people but I fail to see what this has to do with dual pricing.

That is true.

[fey]

They don't understand why so few foreigners visit Thai nationals parks. Maybe it's because they are such ordinary run down dirty places compared with National Parks in other countries.

My last experience at a Thai national park about 5 years ago was this.

Thai Adult 20 baht, children free. Farang 200 baht.

The parks waterfall barely had any more water than a bathroom shower head. Maybe 300 thais were sitting at the foot of the waterfall in a stream not much bigger than an average home swimming pool.

Loud music being played in the forest campground by drunken thai pickup truck owners, litter everywhere and children begging for money from my wife.

Unless they make their national parks cleaner and kept out the dregs of thai soceity by increasing the Thai price to be the same as the farang price, then that was the last time I'll ever visit a Thai national park. Never again even if they cut the price to zero..

try koh tarutao, a former political prison island with jungle and great coastline. great place. coves with very well equiped bungalows around the shore (500 baht a night though). just giggling female maids and servants around. no thai dudes. maybe some couples from europe. thats it. no backpackers.

went there as a side trip on the boat to ko lipe (which i hated - go figure).

would not mind paying the higher park fees if it meant getting away from the hoards (especially younger people drinking, thai dudes, and others in general that dont have their own thing going on).

just me, the giggling thai servants, and the cove. hope to make it back one day if its not spoiled by now.

there was even a european type lady skinny dipping with bare coconuts. just perving.

It is not a case of the price so much as the DIFFERENTIATION in price that wrangles

for me its all about how its applied. get a snotty clerk in a ticket booth and im ready to boycott parks.

put a higher priced ticket in a machine and im good to go and could care less what others are paying.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I went to 2 parks yesterday and got charged normal price. Probably helped I was with a bunch of Thai women.

[cumgranosalum]

WOW, 35 Pages.

Another thought.

As in any organization, there are good and evil.

The National Park organization is not only good,

like to protect the forest and the endangered species.

They also hunt for money and power.

4 Examples

- A good friend of mine (Thai) who lives with his family for 4 generations on a piece of beautiful country land.

The National Park Organisation wants his land, because it is very attractive for tourists.

Since 8 Years he fight in the courts for his land, lose a lot of money and is nearly bankrupt by the court and legal costs.

- In my family environment is another case. The land is farmed for 70 years as a coconut plantation.

The old people have kept the old trees standing and never felled the old trees.

When surveying the land for a paper upgrade one guy from the National Park Organisation said:

“Oh here are 100 years old trees, that is National Park here.”

The only solution is: Cut and down the old trees.

That is the reversal of nature protection, initialized by the National Park Organisation!

- Another organization is well with the National Park people.

They allowed to open an adventure park in the National Park.

Sure against some Kick back money.

- Many local VIP´s are allowed to open resorts and to build houses in National Park Areas.

The ex boss of the DSI is a prominent example.

So please stop to think National Park Organisation is only good.

"The National Park Organisation wants his land, because it is very attractive for tourists.The National Park Organisation wants his land, because it is very attractive for tourists"

.Sorry let me stop you there....this is not true - national parks are neither set up or operated in this way. - your story is based on a false premise....

as far as the other anecdotal stories are concerned - yes - the parks are under threat of encroachment by unscrupulous "powerful and rich" people but I fail to see what this has to do with dual pricing.

That is true.

No - national parks do not "acquire" areas for touristic value - they are set up by government to preserve areas of natural or scientific interest - they also can't just "buy" extra bits - so what you describe is incorrect.

[hawker9000]

NEWS FLASH: Foreign visitors to Thailand's national parks falls by 2000%.

Better find a different news service... How can something "fall" by 2000%? (How can anything fall by over 100%?) I know I know - you were just bloviating.

[duanebigsby]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The increase there and at other parks was made in response to an announcement from the National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation Department that admission fees for foreigners should be made consistent throughout the country as of Sunday.. should read as.. admission fees for people should be made consistent throughout the country. Seriously is there any other country in the world where foreigners are required to pay more to visit an attraction than residents ??

Yes Vietnam does the same.

I will not visit any place that charges me more than anyone else. If anything I would expect a senior discount below the local price. Anything over that I will not pay.

I have started withholding giving tip in all but the most extreme situations. Trying to fit in with the culture.

so does Egypt, China, India, and almost all African Parks.

[Down the rabbit hole]

NEWS FLASH: Foreign visitors to Thailand's national parks falls by 2000%.

Better find a different news service... How can something "fall" by 2000%? (How can anything fall by over 100%?) I know I know - you were just bloviating.

It's a modern expression, coined by people who can't add up and have to reach for a calculator to work out what 'half of 20' is.

Same as '20 times cheaper' or '10 times slower'.

Just have to smile and move on.

[Camelot]

Does this happen anywhere else in the world? It begs belief.

Disneyland near Paris. Huge mark-ups for Brits, Germans and others, according to a BBC report. It's only cheap if you're French.

[kingalfred]

And the British Taxpayers subsidises entrance for Foreigners to all its Museums, and of course public parks are free. Soft touch UK again!

[hawker9000]

NEWS FLASH: Foreign visitors to Thailand's national parks falls by 2000%.

Better find a different news service... How can something "fall" by 2000%? (How can anything fall by over 100%?) I know I know - you were just bloviating.

It's a modern expression, coined by people who can't add up and have to reach for a calculator to work out what 'half of 20' is.

Same as '20 times cheaper' or '10 times slower'.

Just have to smile and move on.

IOW, it's rubbish with no basis in fact.

[Bluespunk]

Does this happen anywhere else in the world? It begs belief.

Disneyland near Paris. Huge mark-ups for Brits, Germans and others, according to a BBC report. It's only cheap if you're French.

No, it's cheap if you are using a French credit card. The online system to get these offers was set up to offer deals that will only take French credit cards, allegedly due to security issues. Anyone can get them if they have a French issued credit card. Anyone.

[DavisH]

Coming from Australia, the National parks here leave a lot to be desired. I'll save my money and go elsewhere. Pity the tourists know no different, and probably don't care anyway.

[mikemac]

Does this happen anywhere else in the world? It begs belief.

Disneyland near Paris. Huge mark-ups for Brits, Germans and others, according to a BBC report. It's only cheap if you're French.

Gee Camelot, did you have to destroy their much loved myth that "it could only happen in Thailand" ?

[garyk]

Been birding in the N.P.'s in Thailand for years. In the last few years the prices have really gone up.

Just isn't worth it anymore for me.

[Jai Dee]

One troll post has been removed from this thread.

[nontabury]

On the same theme,visited Ice Wonderland on lower Sukumvit today, asked the price, quoted 350bht for Thai, 550bht for Farang. Simple said "good bye". The cashier just grinned,even though the car park,and it also looked like the venue was empty. Thai logic.

[cumgranosalum]

Birders are an important part of the NP's income...if they start turning them away they are bound to lose money.

Higher fees also won't encourage newcomers either......just daft.....will hae to wait to the cool/dry to see what happens in reality.