Maui John Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Aloha, We live in Kula, Maui. Located on the side of a volcano at 3000' (900 meters). We *love* the climate. Summer temps: 60 - 80F (15 - 26C). Winter temps: 50 - 70F (10 - 21C). A few nights a year it gets down to 42 F (6 C) Rainfall per year: 35 inches (89 CM). Mosquitos: Some in summer, not bad at all. They die off in the winter. No dengue or malaria. We are looking for a place to retire that's in the tropics at higher elevation and comes somewhat close to the climate in Kula and is also a great place to live. Maui is absurdly expensive, unless we win the lottery, retiring on Maui is in impossibility. No chance. We like the mountains and don't have to be near the ocean. We love nature and want to live in a rural setting yet be within 30 - 60 minutes of a "base" town for shopping, etc. Have no problem with "second world" countries. Other places we are considering are the highlands of Panama or something like Vilcabamba, Ecuador (The Valley of Longevity). We are curious about Pai and Chiang Rai. I realize the hot time will be hotter and the wet time wetter than Maui, but we can sacrifice for the cost of living. Please contrast Pai and Chiang Rai for me. How do they compare in terms of long term living? Please share your overall impressions. Your direct knowledge of these two places is invaluable to us. Thanks, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Barlow Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Pai is much less Thai, and both better and worse for entertainment and convenience. There are many Western food restaurants - good and cheap - and great live music too, with which we cannot compete here in CHiang Rai. Big C, Makro and TescoLotus they do not have, nor so many banks and electronic shops etc. There is a fairly bizaar component to the expat population, and interesting locals - many are Islamic, women wearing purdah! The "resort" aspect of things, which I happen not to like, is more part of things there. Many many Guest Houses and temporary residents. So, new faces if you like that. There are small galleries there, and book shops - dependent on this tourist trade. The wildlife, nature, is better over there - great caves, hotsprings, adventure stuff. Here we have occasional border scirmishes. Here its a shorter visa run, but from Pai it's not really so bad to go to Mae Sot. THe air is better there, but good enough here. If you want housing estates, Chiang Rai recently abounds in them. More Lisu people, at least friendly ones - they can be very, and their handicrafts, lovely, over there. It's a long, long windy road in or out of Pai, but there must be some kind of flights - there's a small airport anyway. Maybe the runwy is grass though... Here there are more educational opportunities (?) and e-mail is a little cheaper and faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhafly Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 pai: more of a backpacker place. lots of white people living there and all of them play an instrument. some thai creative people (ex advertyising for some reason) set up there. chiang rai: a smaller less developed (not for long) chiang mai, more like a real thai city (small and rural-accesible) you feel more a part of everyday thai life here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 According to a friend of mine who lives in Pai most of the people living there are not actually from Pai, but from all over Thailand. he even knows one guy from Samui. He said most of the locals sold up and moved out awhile ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiang Rai Guy Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 If you enjoy drum circles, decent bakery goods, lots of farangs and Thai people not from Pai and know little about the area and history, you found the place to go. Pai encompasses all of these atributes. Although the landscape is beautiful, some places more so than Chiang Rai, the people who make up Pai can kind of destroy it for you. It certainly doesn't feel like your walking through a Thai town. Buddhafly is correct that everyone plays an instrument there. If you don't have any, I suggest picking up some bells to strap to your ankles while joining in a drum circle. You will not feel left out this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhafly Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 also not to forget the annual white-guys-with-dreadlocks hair competition held in pai. the prize is a gilded pan flute signed by zamfier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maui John Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 Thanks for the feedback. I have nothing against backpackers per se, but am not really into that scene. I don't drink or do drugs. Love genuine music played by genuine musicians, less enamored with hippy drum circles. It's sort of like this. I love the Grateful Dead, but have almost nothing in common with the Grateful Dead scene, if that makes any sense. I'm very grounded and very real. Maui has a lot of the transient backpacker new age crowd which mostly drives me crazy as it's all too out there in la la land for my sensibilities. I'd rather be around more mature less transient people rather than the "sowing their oats" crowd. Here are some Chiang Rai questions: 1) Border skirmishes, what is that all about? 2) What size is the farang community? I'm all for being around local Thai, but having some measure of an english speaking community would be nice. 3) I don't like most Asian cities. What are the rural areas surround Chiang Mai like for farang living? Far enough to be out of the noise and pollution of the city, but close enough that shopping trips are not a big hassle. 4) What is the housing rental market like in terms of quality and cost in the areas outside of town? What do 3 bedroom houses of good standard rent for? 5) What are the mosquitos like? Can one sit in the yard in the sun and not be assaulted? Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhafly Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 maui john, have you ever been to thailand? to the north of thailand.?.. i'd have a visit and simply see if you like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maui John Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 Yes, I've been to Thailand 3 times, but never to the north. I will be coming this year at the end of October, but only for 2 1/2 weeks, part of which will be spent in Phuket / Krabi. I agree, coming to see it is key. But equally important is communicating with those who live there as only so much can be learned in the 4 days I'll have in Chaing Rai. My 4 day experience can't come close to comparing to the knowledge gained by you folks who have lived there for perhaps years. That's one of the wonders of the internet, and the reason for my questions. By asking questions I can gain knowledge that would be impossible to gain during a brief trip. For instance, I don't have time to go to both Pai and Chiang Rai. My guidebooks only talk about the places from a traveler's perspective. The sharing of your knowledge has convinced me that I should visit Chiang Rai instead of Pai. That has saved me both time and money! You can visit Maui and see if you like it, which is valuable. I've been here 10 years and know the island backwards and forwards, things that one could never learn in a visit. Thanks again, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaising Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 (edited) Thanks for the feedback. I have nothing against backpackers per se, but am not really into that scene. I don't drink or do drugs. Love genuine music played by genuine musicians, less enamored with hippy drum circles. It's sort of like this. I love the Grateful Dead, but have almost nothing in common with the Grateful Dead scene, if that makes any sense. I'm very grounded and very real. Maui has a lot of the transient backpacker new age crowd which mostly drives me crazy as it's all too out there in la la land for my sensibilities. I'd rather be around more mature less transient people rather than the "sowing their oats" crowd. Here are some Chiang Rai questions: 1) Border skirmishes, what is that all about? When both side of the military have some squabble, but that’s not a big deal. 2) What size is the farang community? I'm all for being around local Thai, but having some measure of an english speaking community would be nice. Very friendly small farang community, only if you give them a line. 3) I don't like most Asian cities. What are the rural areas surround Chiang Mai like for farang living? Far enough to be out of the noise and pollution of the city, but close enough that shopping trips are not a big hassle. Search in chiang mai forum for better info. Our friendly members there are willing to give you some advice. 4) What is the housing rental market like in terms of quality and cost in the areas outside of town? What do 3 bedroom houses of good standard rent for? ? Living cost in chiang rai is quite reasonable, provided you are not a big spender. As mentioned by other poster, supermarket shopping and visit internet café in town is not a hassle. 5) What are the mosquitos like? Can one sit in the yard in the sun and not be assaulted? Need not worried, as long you are not in the jungle. Thanks again! Edited August 22, 2006 by Thaising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel M Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 You can;t beat the gut feeling you get from visiting a place firsthand and spending a few days talking face to face with locals and the westerners living there. Sorry but i find it strange that youd consider retiring to a place youve never visited, and then upon a visit to thailand you cant check out both places because youre too busy in krabi and phuket? Its like ordering a mail-order bride... oops, sorry guys here that have! no offense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenivan Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Thanks for the feedback. I have nothing against backpackers per se, but am not really into that scene. I don't drink or do drugs. Love genuine music played by genuine musicians, less enamored with hippy drum circles. Pai is like a big Guesthouse with backpackers. I was there 2 weeks ago and it has changed a lot the last 7 years. It was at least 50 times more backpackers and hard to find any Thais. It is beautiful up there but probably no a place where you want to live. Here are some Chiang Rai questions: 1) Border skirmishes, what is that all about? The border is 65 km away and you don't have to worry here. And it is very seldom anything happens at all. 2) What size is the farang community? I'm all for being around local Thai, but having some measure of an english speaking community would be nice. I would guess there are at least 1000 farangs in and around Chiang Rai. You might meet 50 - 100 of them in a week if you go to Big C for shopping, visit some bars/restaurants that are popular etc etc. 3) I don't like most Asian cities. What are the rural areas surround Chiang Mai like for farang living? Far enough to be out of the noise and pollution of the city, but close enough that shopping trips are not a big hassle. Chiang Mai or Chiang Rai ? 4) What is the housing rental market like in terms of quality and cost in the areas outside of town? What do 3 bedroom houses of good standard rent for? 3000 - 8000 bath/month and you can get a good house 5) What are the mosquitos like? Can one sit in the yard in the sun and not be assaulted? No problem at all. You are welcome with more questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 (edited) Two quick impressions of Pai: 1. The Khao San Road of the North 2. Rains.... a lot..... stayed 72 hours there, and it didn't stop raining the whole time. Two quick impressions of Chiang Rai: 1. good shopping 2. most beautiful temple I've seen in all of Thailand The better choice between the two Neither appealed to me all that much, I'd go to Chiang Khong Edited August 22, 2006 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chownah Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 There isn't anywhere in Thailand that has a climate like the Hawaiian Islands so if that's what you want then forget it....it's much hotter here generally speaking....everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maui John Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 You can;t beat the gut feeling you get from visiting a place firsthand and spending a few days talking face to face with locals and the westerners living there.Sorry but i find it strange that youd consider retiring to a place youve never visited, and then upon a visit to thailand you cant check out both places because youre too busy in krabi and phuket? Its like ordering a mail-order bride... oops, sorry guys here that have! no offense! Hi Nigel, I'm not retiring tomorrow, I'm only 37 years old. But I will retire (from a regular job) within the next 6 years, maybe next year, maybe later. I want to write, and writing takes free time and Thailand's low cost of living can provide me that time, something I cannot afford to do in Hawaii or on the US mainland. I'm not the first person to consider Thailand for such a reason. I will be in Thailand for other reasons in late October. My airfare and travel expenses are being paid for me. While there, I thought it would be interesting to check out potential locations for my semi-retirement. As life would have it, I only have so much time, hence I'm asking questions so I will be able to make the most efficient use of my time while there. No grand decision is going to be made any time soon. These are just preliminary investigations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maui John Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 There isn't anywhere in Thailand that has a climate like the Hawaiian Islands so if that's what you want then forget it....it's much hotter here generally speaking....everywhere. Oh, I'm under no illusion that I'll find what I have on Maui in terms of climate. But the median home price is over $700,000. A fixer upper starts at over $500,000. The cost of living is 30% higher than San Francisco. The ways and means have trumped the sunny day! But there are places in the world that will suffice climate wise, albeit with concessions compared to Hawaii. One of my non Thai favorites is Boquete, Panama. It comes very close. Thank you everyone else for the replies. I mistakenly wrote: "3) I don't like most Asian cities. What are the rural areas surround Chiang Mai like for farang living? Far enough to be out of the noise and pollution of the city, but close enough that shopping trips are not a big hassle." It should have read "Chiang Rai", not "Mai". It was late and my brain obviously failed me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhafly Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 hi maui john... chiang rai itself (the city) is nothing amazing when presented to the eye. but its whats just a few kilo out of the city that i like. you can get to whatever degreee or rural you like in just a few kilo. though the city has some of the the attributes of a 2nd world city like horrible architecture, and lack of green in the city center, its probably a good size in regards to having the occasional comforts you may need, regards to shopping etc. in your case as a writer, it may be right on provided you live about 6-15 kilo out of town. some nice rolling hills, green as ever. to me thailand has always had the friendliest, least aggressive people ive met in 30 countries of travel, and the people in chiang rai have proved to me the friendliest of the thais, if that helps. of course there are exceptions... good luck buddhafly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahseer Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Does Mae Chan not fit what Maui John is looking for? I have only been there twice but certainly liked the area and it does have the close proximity to Chiang Rai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryBoy Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Hi maui john, Talk about advance planning. In 5 to 7 years a lot of things can change in Pai or Chiang Rai. You may or may not have seen www.allaboutpai.com Loads of pics and current info on Pai and last year's disastrous floods. Cheers CountryBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krupnik Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 It's a long, long windy road in or out of Pai, but there must be some kind of flights - there's a small airport anyway. Maybe the runwy is grass though... The airport has not been in action since the flood that happened or a year or two ago and I shouldn't imagine it iwll be in use again for a good while yet.... I think there is definitely something slightly magical about Pai, and most of the people I met when I was there, had ended up staying alot longer than planned (like myself, actually.) I knew people who planned to only stay there a few days and ended up staying for months - so there must be something special about it. The downside is that because it is so small, everyone seems to know everybody elses business and it's quite hard to escape - the mini-bus is a c. three hour or so long windy road journey as said above. Fantastic scenery thoough.... Can't speak for Chiang Rai I'm afraid, I haven't been there yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I think there is definitely something slightly magical about Pai, and most of the people I met when I was there, had ended up staying alot longer than planned (like myself, actually.) I knew people who planned to only stay there a few days and ended up staying for months - so there must be something special about it. mushrooms, perhaps? that would account for the time warp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Barlow Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 6 or 7 years from now Mae Jan might be the place - or Fang, if you speak Thai or Chinese. By then English might suffice... Somehow the Fang nightlife seems to way out-do CR's, despite it being much smaller. No Farang living there, or very, very few, right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maui John Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) Hi maui john,Talk about advance planning. In 5 to 7 years a lot of things can change in Pai or Chiang Rai. You may or may not have seen www.allaboutpai.com Loads of pics and current info on Pai and last year's disastrous floods. Cheers CountryBoy It could be within a year as well, depends what happens on several fronts..... Thanks for the website on Pai! And thank you everyone else for your thoughts, most helpful. Edited August 25, 2006 by Maui John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenivan Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Maui John, If you go to Pai to check it up then take a trip also to Mae Hong Son. That is a real city and it is also in a beautiful surronding, lots of fantastic mountains. And it got a real airport so it is easy to go to Chiang Mai, BKK etc. Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maui John Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) Very good point, I'll investigate Mae Hong Son as well....... What is the elevation in Mae Hong Son? Is it higher than either Pai or Chiang Rai, both of which seem to be around 600m (1600 ft)? Edited August 25, 2006 by Maui John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenivan Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Very good point, I'll investigate Mae Hong Son as well....... What is the elevation in Mae Hong Son? Is it higher than either Pai or Chiang Rai, both of which seem to be around 600m (1600 ft)? I cannot remember how high Pai is but Chiang Rai is around 430 m. The roads from Pai to both Chiang Mai and Mae Hong Son goes up to 1380 m according to my GPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potter Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Very good point, I'll investigate Mae Hong Son as well....... What is the elevation in Mae Hong Son? Is it higher than either Pai or Chiang Rai, both of which seem to be around 600m (1600 ft)? Joel Barlow has described differences well. CR is 600m. Pai is 1000m. The higher you get, the cooler nights you will get. Pai and CR are my favorite places in Thailand and mainly because of the cool nights and everything else to do here. Mae Hong Son got warmer nights than CR. When I need a change I like to visit Pai (live in CR). Pai and CR is developing a lot in the farrang community. The way I see it Pai is more relaxing, hippie kind of entertainment with better western food. A long way to anywhere. You get there from CM taking a minibus or drive your own vehicle on probably one of the most dangerous road you have ever been on. From Pai you will spend a full day going on a visa run to the border in CR, where from CR city it is a 1 hour drive each way. A lot of forreign restaurents has recently opened in CR. I believe both are gonna develop. CR got more bars with lots of hostesses (no prostitution of course), where Pai got more places with young back packers. Good ADSL connection is possible near the city of CR, where Pai might be more complicated getting a prober internet connection. As for house prices it is not an easy quistion to answer. How close to town do you want to be? How close to good shopping? How close to good restaurent? What are the standards for you to be a good house? Do you want it empty or furnished? Do you need a garden? Do you need aircon and how many? Do you need to be in a village which has security? I would say a 3-bedroom house is like 5k now. 2 years ago it was 4k. 5 years ago it was 3k. I guess in the future it will be more expensive. All these things might change in the future. Samui used to be a cheap backpacker place many years ago. Who knows what is next. When you retire come for a holiday and look around. Who knows, you might prefer to live in Krabi/Phuket instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenivan Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Chiang Rai Located at longitude 99 52' 59" E and latitude 19 57' 09" N, 1,279 feet above sea level. Chiang Mai Located at longitude 98 57'58" and latitude 18 46'18", 1,035 feet above sea level Name: Mae Hong Son Airport - VTCH Coordinates: 19*18' N x 97*58' Elevation: 929' Name: Pai Airport - VTCI Coordinates: 19*22.2' N x 098*26' E (corrected coordinates) Elevation: 1550' (measured by Tom from aircraft altimeter on the ground) I think (and hope) that this information is right because that is what the pilots are using when they are landing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadish_sweetball Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Calculated metric values for Sven Ivan's figures: Chiang Rai 389.83 meters above sea level Chiang Mai 315.468 meters above sea level Mae Hong Son 283.15 meters above sea level Pai 472.44 meters over sea level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenivan Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Calculated metric values for Sven Ivan's figures:Chiang Rai 389.83 meters above sea level Google Earth says elevation is 388 m! It is a fantastic program! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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