Expatitis in Thailand, Is Your Glass Half Empty or Half Full?

[gandalf12]

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I've lost count of the people on this forum that say ''If you don't like it here, go back to where you came from ''. I'm sure these people just want to keep Thailand all to themselves and not share it with the rest of us !!

I think the people who say that, and I have said it myself, adopt the attitude that you can enjoy life in Thailand but if it is getting you so depressed then change your life. Many on these forums always quote that things are different back home which begs the question "if home was so good why did you leave it?". I love it in Thailand but like any location it is what you make of it. I dont expect things to change to suit me and so I dont bother about the things I dont like.

[Kerryd]

Why are white people expats when the rest of us are immigrants?

In the lexicon of human migration there are still hierarchical words, created with the purpose of putting white people above everyone else. One of those remnants is the word “expat”.

What is an expat? And who is an expat? According to Wikipedia, “an expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country other than that of the person’s upbringing. The word comes from the Latin terms ex (‘out of’) and patria (‘country, fatherland’)”.

Defined that way, you should expect that any person going to work outside of his or her country for a period of time would be an expat, regardless of his skin colour or country. But that is not the case in reality; expat is a term reserved exclusively for western white people going to work abroad.

Africans are immigrants. Arabs are immigrants. Asians are immigrants. However, Europeans are expats because they can’t be at the same level as other ethnicities. They are superior. Immigrants is a term set aside for ‘inferior races’.

Don’t take my word for it. The Wall Street Journal, the leading financial information magazine in the world, has a blog dedicated to the life of expats and recently they featured a story ‘Who is an expat, anyway?’. Here are the main conclusions: “Some arrivals are described as expats; others as immigrants; and some simply as migrants. It depends on social class, country of origin and economic status. It’s strange to hear some people in Hong Kong described as expats, but not others. Anyone with roots in a western country is considered an expat … Filipino domestic helpers are just guests, even if they’ve been here for decades. Mandarin-speaking mainland Chinese are rarely regarded as expats … It’s a double standard woven into official policy.”

Is there any space in the development debate for African experts?

The reality is the same in Africa and Europe. Top African professionals going to work in Europe are not considered expats. They are immigrants. Period. “I work for multinational organisations both in the private and public sectors. And being black or coloured doesn’t gain me the term “expat”. I’m a highly qualified immigrant, as they call me, to be politically correct,” says an African migrant worker.

Most white people deny that they enjoy the privileges of a racist system. And why not? But our responsibility is to point out and to deny them these privileges, directly related to an outdated supremacist ideology. If you see those “expats” in Africa, call them immigrants like everyone else. If that hurts their white superiority, they can jump in the air and stay there. The political deconstruction of this outdated worldview must continue.

You really should post the link to the article you copied this from lest people think you thought that up all by yourself.

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/mar/13/white-people-expats-immigrants-migration (by Mawuna Remarque Koutonin)

[Veritas48]

The article failed to mention the worst whiners of the lot,the ones who whine about other people whining...and some of them write articles on Thaivisa.

I knew a very positive guy once,always the glass is half full kind of guy.....he drowned in a half full swimming pool!

[mogo51]

For me it depends on the value of the Aussie $, at the moment it is half empty. If you are Russian, it has a giant hole at the bottom.

[gemguy]

I am a glass half full person my entire life.

Meantime while living here in Thailand you do begin to turn some what cynical when everyday you are subjected to the mentality of the masses of Thai people that have you questioning...... their Thai mentality.

cyn·i·cal

ˈsinək(ə)l/

adjective

1. 1.

   believing that people are motivated by self-interest; distrustful of human sincerity or integrity.

   "her cynical attitude"

When their questionable Thai mentality is pointed out and scrutinized, many would see that as complaining....... while many would think of it as constructive criticism and not complaining, per say.

I do not know of one foreigner living here that has never complained about any number of issues concerning how Thai people go about conducting themselves, including their mentality and their way(s) ...Thai Way(s) of thinking and or their Thai attitude relative to a long list of social issues and the social interactions experienced between themselves ( foreigners ) and Thai people.

If you live here long enough you will be subjected to a number of negatives in a number of ways while the longer you stay here the more you will witness and or experience many of the existing negatives.

Is pointing out the negative aspects always to be considered "complaining" ???......while other foreigners peg you as a person who is a glass half empty type of person because you point out those negatives and discuss it at length sometimes.....usually just for the sake of discussion....but your seen as a complainer when you do point out the negatives.

Most of the negatives can not be ignored completely while often enough you can not be such a completely cheerful person if the existing negatives are negatively effecting you also while dragging you down and causing all kinds of grief in your life that is happening to you..... in Thailand...not some where else for comparison...but here in Thailand.

Point is...like anywhere you choose to live there are all too many issues that have to be addressed while it is difficult to be happy and cheerful all the time here in Thailand....same as back home ...where ever that may be.......

Cheers

[Tomtomtom69]

This is all well and good but some of us here encounter situations that make one despair. I am heavily involved with cycle-sport here. I am a coach trainer, in a personal voluntary and free capacity, to Thai kids. I have spent five years trying to help them progress in this sport as much as I can. This year the Thai Cycling Association has defied their undertaking to the Union Cycliste Internationale and to the Olympic movement by introducing higher fees to 'farangs' for their UCI cycle racing/coaching licence. Under UCI rules the country in which you live MUST provide you with this licence. However this year the TCA want to charge 'farangs' 5 x more than Thais. This is against Article 3 of the UCI as well as the Olympic Charter's articles on equality. They also want proof of residence (fair enough) except when that proof is provided they still will not issue the licence. Why? The Thais are fed up of the foreign riders here some of whom (not me) are stronger than the Thais. Thus when UCI ranking points are on offer, the Thais don't get them all. Their answer a) doctor the results so that no foreigner appears on the official results that the UCI receives (easily checked as the podium pics and the official results don't match) and deny them a race licence. When I see this unsporting practice and the extent to which the Thais go to cheat and lie their way through my beloved sport, I just want to call it a day. If anyone tries to speak to the Police General who is the TCA's head honcho, then he just cuts the call. My Thai wife is also appalled at how Thai society (in her view) has deteriorated and people, she says, are more dishonest than ever, more greedy than ever and so on. Our house is for sale. When someone buys it, we'll go. Enough is enough.

You don't have a work permit, they don't want you doing it.

I think it's their right to choose who they want training and interacting with their youngsters.

(Do you have the police check required to work with youngsters in western countries?)

Not sure why you think you have the right to do this sort of stuff in a foreign country.

You aren't allowed to own a house in Thailand either "our house" sounds a bit like proxy ownership.

Wrong. Foreigners can own houses, just not the land underneath.

[mogo51]

For me it depends on the value of the Aussie $, at the moment it is half empty. If you are Russian, it has a giant hole at the bottom.

[The manic]

I completely agree with this article. It really is time to leave the bitter and twisted outlook in the past. It seems that even on this forum some are simply not happy no matter what happens and in fact the statement "They actually want Thailand to be corrupt or in an economic downturn or experience other problems" resinates with me because that way they can justify their distain for the military and say "I told you so" They want to hard for the Thai people to suffer and for the economy to fail just so they can say those 4 simple words.

I stand shoulder to shoulder with my family who stands shoulder to shoulder with our village who do not share any bitter and twisted outlook. They see a bright future and see the positive in Thai life. Thai or farang we share the same view that Thailand is a great place to live and has been shown the corruption is declining and the country has a bright future ahead of it.

Lets hope the bitter and twisted see the glass as half full in the future and remember we do want corruption to reduce and the economy to improve no matter who is attributed to the success of it.

Look no further than the following examples of what the bitter and twisted say.

If the Junta did not hold a trail for yinglucks impeachment the comments would be This is a feature of most totalitarian regimes. When they do hold a trail the comments are Show trial - a feature of most totalitarian regimes

When the Junta do not offer social security for poor families with children the comments are The Junta do not care about the poor When the do introduce it the comments are That'a a dozen more pints of Lao Kao for Pa!

When the Junta remove 5 students at a speech in Khon Kaen the comments are they will never be seen again When they are seen again and free without charge the comments are only let go because the Jurassic junta did not appreciate that the clip of them being removed by gun toting thugs would go viral world wide so quickly I expect

When the Junta say they wont have a referendum for the constitution the comments were This is typical of a military take over where the voice of the people is squashed When the Junta change there stance and have a referendum for the constitution the comments are This will be a rigged referendum and all will be forced to vote yes

When Prayut and his team did not declare assets the comments were The PTP are way more democratic and transparent because they did declare their assets. When Prayut and his team do declare their assets the sarcastic comments are No doubt all those outstanding members of society have earned their money through hard labor and honesty.

Before the Junta arrest one of their own the comments are "The Junta are corrupted and would never arrest within their own ranks" When the Junta arrest one of their own. It is a PR stunt.

If the police chief was not reinstated it would be a conspiracy by the DEM's and the courts. When he is, it is nepotism.

When the Junta found a small amount of weapons it was "An insignificant weapons find" When they found 10% of all weapons finds in 14 years it is "A fake news story".

Before the Junta paid the rice farmers it was "They don't care about the farmers" When they paid the farmers it was "They are a populist Junta"

Time to see the good in Thailand and Thai's. The majority of Thai's heart is in the right place and they only want to see a bright peaceful and happy future. That is an outlook that some farangs need to adopt as well.

Why have you dragged the Military Junta, and your support for it, into this issue? You seem to equate disapproval of the unelected military junta as being unhappy with Thailand. But disapproval of unelected military juntas and their actions to control the people is universally condemned by decent minded people. Unhappiness with the unelected military junta is not unhappiness with Thailand.

[Runamile]

I think maybe the correctives have been going too far in this thread.

I appreciate that the guy who came here for a holiday, then came back to live, may be in for a shock. Equally, though, he may continue to live in his bubble.

What I find more interesting is to consider those expats who have lived in a number of countries, particularly, maybe, Asian ones. How does Thailand compare?

I've holidayed and worked in Thailand. I've lived in China for a number of years. I now live in Thailand. Much to my surprise, I find Thailand less easy to navigate than China. I've also talked to Thais who have lived and worked or studied abroad, who have come to find some aspects of Thailand bemusing.

Let me take just two simple examples:

1. Visas, or, more particularly the visa extension and reporting processes. Even more the case, the re-entry permit. Compare with China, where I just came and went as I pleased, within the terms of my one year stays, that required no further action than an initial reporting to the local police station, to be done again if there was any change of address. My concern is mostly around re-entry, but visa extension periods, at the moment, seem incredibly changeable. Last week's three months is this week's one month, etc.

2. Post. It was sent from UK. It (mostly!) arrived. Period. It was never "attacked" by customs and excise, or huge, seemingly arbitrary (because of assessed value) sums required for its release. Yesterday I was sick, staggering around, but had too much to do to stop. I ruined an expensive shirt. If I was in China, I'd just get another sent from UK. End of upset. There are clear peculiarities in Thailand around gifts, personal effects and used goods.

[lucky11]

I've lost count of the people on this forum that say ''If you don't like it here, go back to where you came from ''. I'm sure these people just want to keep Thailand all to themselves and not share it with the rest of us !!

What a load of sentimental garbage this is!!

I personally cannot relate to any of it. If there are people out there that have been affected in the way he describes then I hope that you have more luck in the future and become happier in your outlook on life.

[Docno]

Fact of the matter is that some people are not going to be happy no matter where they end up. They were probably constantly complaining back in the 'old country' and thought they would happiness in Thailand, but soon enough they found things to complain about here. These are people who expect the world to adapt to them rather than they adapting to their circumstances.

I know of an English guy who recently left Singapore after about 3 years there. Came to hate the place and desperately wanted to get out. Now, if you can't get on in Singapore as a westerner, there aren't many places that will suit you in this part of the world. Anyway, a couple of months ago he packed up and moved to Japan, reckoning that he would be happier there. I told our friend-in-common that this was a big mistake. Anyway, as predicted, he's already started complaining about Japan and says he wants to go back to Singapore. I'm sure he'd also find a home among the Thai-bashing mob here if he ever ended up in Thailand.

Many times, it's the person, not the place.

[hbullinger]

The photograph of this grumpy old man (mind you, he is possibly younger than I am) sums up the whole problem. Can you imagine to get a smile from this fellow when you come across him in the street, even if you gave him a smile?

Nearly every Thai person would smile or nod back at you even without being addressed with a smile by you. It makes all the difference.Thankfully there are quite a few Farangs in my area around Sukumvit 22 who have adopted a friendly attitude.

It also helps you stay healthy. I once walked into a German Hospital with a racing heart at a pulse rate of 260 when the doctor on duty looked at me in amazement, telling me that I am the first patient ever walking into his place in such a condition. All the others would be on a stretcher or already dead. I explained my "Half Full Philosophy" to him. adding that my glass does only get empty quickly when I enjoy a glass of wine or beer.

Come on - cheer up everybody!

[eddie61]

the words that have kept me going here for 24 years are

" if they got their act together, we couldn't afford to ++++ their daughters for peanuts......"

[Scott]

A leopard usually doesn't change his spots. Most of the expats in Thailand who are miserable, were miserable in their home country. I know a small number of relatively happy people who came here and became quite unhappy, but they soon returned back home.

Why would you stay somewhere if you were really out of your comfort zone?

I am a whiner, a bitcher and a complainer. I was that way in my home country and I am that way here. The only difference is that it's easier to find things to bitch and whine about in Thailand!

[bim]

In 2013 I came here to retire and live after visiting each year since 1993.

What I have discovered is that my life here is as full and happy as I make it. I am not interested in those that are bitter, unhappy and negative.

There are more wonderful people in this world than not and all I have to do is open my eyes and heart.

Happy, Joyous and Free.

Live and Let Live.

Bless you my man. I agree. You sound like a really nice person

[Yann55]

I wonder where you got that picture, George ... It's hilarious... well, in a way.

Indeed a photo is worth a thousand words !!

Great article, thanks.

The French writer André Gide went in 1925/26 to the Congo (then a French colony) and published a book about his trip in 1927. He was appalled by the colons attitude in pretty much every respect, and towards the locals in particular (then labelled indigènes). Gide summed up their behaviour with this remarkable pearl :

Moins le blanc est intelligent, plus le noir lui paraît bête, which means : the less intelligent a white colon is, the more he claims that blacks are stupid.

Every time I read a Thai-bashing post on this forum I think of that phrase, and I have to laugh ...

On the same subject, I recently read 'Burmese Days', George Orwell's first novel published in 1934, based on his experience as a member of the British Police force in the North of Myanmar (then called Burma). I can't recommend it highly enough to expats or would-be expats.

[eddie61]

download.png

Can also be negatively correlated with personal wealth increase/decrease

[dotpoom]

For me.........any day I'm above ground is a good day, no matter where I am. I came here with no expectations because I know where-ever I go my head comes with me. I believe most of my problems are self made and the answer to all my problems lies within me.

I try to tune in to the good "vibes" (that are all around me) that keep me safe and protect me. I stay away from people and places where I sense bad vibes. I knew nothing about forums or computers before arriving in Thailand and was bowled over by what I have now come to learn are called "Trools". If ever I sensed bad vibes it is when I an reading their input. I have actually come to feel very sad for them ( I honestly do not mean that in a negative way) because people with such low frequency vibrations must be in a very unhappy state. I know I used the words "good" and "bad" here but in actual fact I do not believe in either.....to me it is a question of "Balance" and "Imbalance".

[MW72]

My glass was completely full yesterday with Balvenie single malt Whisky as well as my expat friends glasses and we had a brilliant day and even though most are teachers and usually pretty hard up but everyone is very happy with their lot in Thailand I dont think any of the conversation all day & evening involved slagging of the Thais or the Thai culture in general only one getting slagged of was the Italian landlord of our little bar for his excessive cost for a Leo and his reply was to start charging for a bucket of ice because he makes so little money on a Leo, I think most happy expats are married to good Thai woman so no need to slag off or degrade anyone, its always happy days in Thailand. As long as you are smart enough to stay away from all the shady type of people you meet in Thailand foreign and or Thai, and everyone knows who a genuine friend is or just a fair weather friend.

I like your taste for the Balvenie Was it a double wood or a port wood? (totally off topic. Sorry)

[junk1e]

Excellent article. To follow your advice to the letter though would mean avoiding this forum! Regrettably it a magnet for the negative people you describe. Of course living here is not the same as coming on holiday, but the same applies to any country. In terms of development Thailand is still a young country, and if you come here expecting it to run the same as your home country you are going to be disappointed. Embrace all the advantages of living here and learn to put up with the disadvantages. To me the former outweighs the latter otherwise would be somewhere else, so those who say if you don't like it leave have a good point. Nobody is forcing you to live here. Anybody retiring here should first just rent a property and a car etc., and check out for sure this is the place for them.

[dansbkk]

First time posting here and only living in Thailand full time for 2 years, but I have traveled here a lot for for over 30 years.

I have a lot of expat friends and find that most of them who complain, and bitch and moan the loudest, also do so about their previous home countries. They come here with high expectations about a wonderful new life, and how great it will be and find out people are the same, pretty much everywhere in the world.

They had problems back home dealing with life, and are disappointed again now when they find out they have the same problems here.

It is not the location, it is just the individuals involved.

[Kees5555]

Never had trouble with any expats. Only trouble was caused by a few cheating/incompetent Thai people:
* a constructor who did a lousy job
* a real estate agent in Jomtien who tried to steal part of the sales price for my condo, by having 2 contracts: one with a 50,000 baht lower price for me (as seller) than for the buyer, a different one for the buyer, who had authorized a friend of this agent to sign for him, so the buyer was unaware. The difference was supposed to end in her pocket, apart from her commission. Plus the agent 'miscounted' 5000 baht in the cash downpayment.
* a doctor in Jomtien who started treating my new GF with 3 different types of antibiotic, including injections (she planned to do 3 in 3 days for gonorrhea where 1 shot is sufficient in such a case!), WITHOUT first doing a lab test. Plus selling her a useless device for cleaning pussy and charging double the normal price for it.
I sent my GF back to the clinic, requesting for a lab test.... result next day: NO bacteria, just some skin irritation because she didn't have sex for long time. Total bill: 3400 baht, where max 1000 would have been sufficient if this doctor had done her job properly, instead of going for the highest profit. Later on the doctor defended herself with blatant lies.
* and some minor other things cause by Thai people

[razer]

If you are rich, your glass is half full but you WANT more. If you are not rich your glass is half empty and you SPEND carefully. So it is for 7 billion people.

[Tomtomtom69]

Why are white people expats when the rest of us are immigrants?

In the lexicon of human migration there are still hierarchical words, created with the purpose of putting white people above everyone else. One of those remnants is the word “expat”.

What is an expat? And who is an expat? According to Wikipedia, “an expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country other than that of the person’s upbringing. The word comes from the Latin terms ex (‘out of’) and patria (‘country, fatherland’)”.

Defined that way, you should expect that any person going to work outside of his or her country for a period of time would be an expat, regardless of his skin colour or country. But that is not the case in reality; expat is a term reserved exclusively for western white people going to work abroad.

Africans are immigrants. Arabs are immigrants. Asians are immigrants. However, Europeans are expats because they can’t be at the same level as other ethnicities. They are superior. Immigrants is a term set aside for ‘inferior races’.

Don’t take my word for it. The Wall Street Journal, the leading financial information magazine in the world, has a blog dedicated to the life of expats and recently they featured a story ‘Who is an expat, anyway?’. Here are the main conclusions: “Some arrivals are described as expats; others as immigrants; and some simply as migrants. It depends on social class, country of origin and economic status. It’s strange to hear some people in Hong Kong described as expats, but not others. Anyone with roots in a western country is considered an expat … Filipino domestic helpers are just guests, even if they’ve been here for decades. Mandarin-speaking mainland Chinese are rarely regarded as expats … It’s a double standard woven into official policy.”

Is there any space in the development debate for African experts?

The reality is the same in Africa and Europe. Top African professionals going to work in Europe are not considered expats. They are immigrants. Period. “I work for multinational organisations both in the private and public sectors. And being black or coloured doesn’t gain me the term “expat”. I’m a highly qualified immigrant, as they call me, to be politically correct,” says an African migrant worker.

Most white people deny that they enjoy the privileges of a racist system. And why not? But our responsibility is to point out and to deny them these privileges, directly related to an outdated supremacist ideology. If you see those “expats” in Africa, call them immigrants like everyone else. If that hurts their white superiority, they can jump in the air and stay there. The political deconstruction of this outdated worldview must continue.

You really should post the link to the article you copied this from lest people think you thought that up all by yourself.

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/mar/13/white-people-expats-immigrants-migration (by Mawuna Remarque Koutonin)

In the comments section of that article you'll clearly find that most people agree that the author of this poorly researched article is having some kind of "white guilt" by trying to take a word that simply means to "temporarily relocate, usually for work purposes to a foreign country" and then turn it into a racial issue. Immigrants on the other hand, are people who "relocate to a foreign country permanently, usually becoming permanent residents and eventually citizens in the process".

The reality is that the word "expat" means to "relocate, for temporary reasons, usually for work, to a foreign country while keeping your original citizenship." Sometimes it's the case that the host country doesn't hand out citizenship to foreigners at all or very easily, so it perpetuates the status of expats, rather than making them immigrants. But this is the case for all, white and non-white alike. The example of Hong Kong is a poor one, because it's almost impossible for any foreigner to obtain citizenship, while Chinese, being a part of China are citizens of the PRC so clearly they can't be "expats" unless they happen to be ethnic Chinese but on a foreign passport (non-Chinese). I think this would also apply to citizens of Taiwan.

Thailand is similar.

Basically, most foreigners in Thailand, even the so-called "migrant workers" who have even less access to Thai citizenship than we do are just as much expats as we are, but the word expat usually implies a certain sense of being of a higher class, although definitely not necessarily white. Even so, as Burmese and Cambodian labourers can only stay temporarily in Thailand and must return to their home countries after their time working in Thailand is done, not to mention their travel restrictions during the time they are employed here, they are very much second-class citizens and can't be defined as immigrants in any sense of the word.

Therefore, usually the term "expat" is appropriate to refer to any foreigner living in a country other than his home, on a temporary basis while retaining his own citizenship, particularly in countries where foreigners generally do not seek, or are not allowed to seek out local citizenship (or even permanent residency) and therefore have to maintain a short-term, yearly or occasionally longer temporary visa. Example of countries where this applies include: Thailand, Vietnam, China, Hong Kong SAR (China), Japan, the UAE, Qatar and many others.

Examples of countries where foreigners generally become immigrants (or are eligible to become immigrants, i.e. permanent residents and eventually citizens) and the term "expats" is only appropriate for say, very highly skilled top managers on temporary assignments abroad, such as the CEOs of MNCs include: Australia, the USA, Canada, western Europe etc.

I also find it funny to hear about "British expats" living in France for example, even if they go to live/work in France temporarily without any intention of staying permanently. It's better to refer to them as immigrants since British people don't need any sort of paperwork to live and work in France. Once they show up at the border they show their passport and they're done. They can work in any job without a work permit, live permanently and never need any sort of visa. It's called the EU agreement on freedom of movement. It's even easier if you're a Schengen citizen who doesn't need a passport to enter in the first place (just an ID card) but of course the same rules apply. Therefore, it's a bit ridiculous to call a European living in another European country an expat. On the other hand, a Thai or an American or Australian, despite the latter two being white like most Europeans are could all be termed expats, as they require a work visa/work permit to stay, unless they happen to obtain an immigrant visa in which case they become immigrants.

[micmichd]

Half full.

Enjoy things I like, and change things I don't like.

I need my up's, but also my down's - to appreciate the up's.

[SoiBiker]

Half full of ice, half full of beer.

[ggold]

This is all well and good but some of us here encounter situations that make one despair. I am heavily involved with cycle-sport here. I am a coach trainer, in a personal voluntary and free capacity, to Thai kids. I have spent five years trying to help them progress in this sport as much as I can. This year the Thai Cycling Association has defied their undertaking to the Union Cycliste Internationale and to the Olympic movement by introducing higher fees to 'farangs' for their UCI cycle racing/coaching licence. Under UCI rules the country in which you live MUST provide you with this licence. However this year the TCA want to charge 'farangs' 5 x more than Thais. This is against Article 3 of the UCI as well as the Olympic Charter's articles on equality. They also want proof of residence (fair enough) except when that proof is provided they still will not issue the licence. Why? The Thais are fed up of the foreign riders here some of whom (not me) are stronger than the Thais. Thus when UCI ranking points are on offer, the Thais don't get them all. Their answer a) doctor the results so that no foreigner appears on the official results that the UCI receives (easily checked as the podium pics and the official results don't match) and deny them a race licence. When I see this unsporting practice and the extent to which the Thais go to cheat and lie their way through my beloved sport, I just want to call it a day. If anyone tries to speak to the Police General who is the TCA's head honcho, then he just cuts the call. My Thai wife is also appalled at how Thai society (in her view) has deteriorated and people, she says, are more dishonest than ever, more greedy than ever and so on. Our house is for sale. When someone buys it, we'll go. Enough is enough.

You don't have a work permit, they don't want you doing it.

I think it's their right to choose who they want training and interacting with their youngsters.

(Do you have the police check required to work with youngsters in western countries?)

Not sure why you think you have the right to do this sort of stuff in a foreign country.

You aren't allowed to own a house in Thailand either "our house" sounds a bit like proxy ownership.

You aren't allowed to own a house in Thailand either "our house" sounds a bit like proxy ownership.

You can own the house, it's the land you can't own.

[paul-s]

I have not posted on this forum for a long while, because everybody seemed be moaning and there was a good deal of Thai bashing.
I would like to say what a GOOD original post.

So true - look for good things and you will most likely find good things - look for bad things and you will most likely find bad things.

Keep it up Thai Visa!

[ronwparker]

I have been here so long that I no longer believe the government and propaganda from TAT .

But I am not sad or depressed about this country-it has a lot of problems and unrealistic targets but I have just come from Hot Springs at Sankampaeng then a business opening where everyone was pleased to see me.

It helps that I am married into an ordinary Thai family.

I never go to bar girls or do the touristy things ,I am not shocked by the short temper of many Thai people or the road rage which is just as bad in the west.

I sometimes wish I had a transporter-so i could go to an english country pub for a few drinks .

But when I go back to England I find many people unhappy or whinging.

I then miss this country with all it's corruption and double standards!

[eeworldwide]

I'm not sure anyone would be interested in my opinion, but here goes.

The original post is only someone's opinion anyway

Most depression and cynicism in life - anywhere in the world, comes from deeper issues within a person - perhaps exacerbated by outward circumstances.

Many foreigners coming here, will experience a culture shock within the first 2 years, and then, depending on their outward and inward circumstances, go on to enjoy the culture that they are living in to a greater or lesser degree.

Factors in Thailand which can go a long way to aggravating a sense of inward peace can be for any number of the following reasons:

1: Many foreigners here have come for work - they are paid by companies or missions, and they have a stable salary. Thus - they may not be living from their own collected pot of savings, and will find life here considerably better than the drudgery of a grey western climate and bureaucratic rat-race world.

2: Many expats do not speak the lingo - I have always maintained that if you don't speak the language, it is wiser to keep silent about many of the political and cultural happenings, because unless you have a thorough understanding of the historic in these areas, you will be sorely lacking in information and therefore the real truth.

3: The East is NOT the West. There are deep cultural differences that are centuries old and these most Westerners will not understand, nor adopt. These things heavily shape the indigenous people, along with the religions of the country, and are usually vastly different to the West.

4: Many foreigners come here and have ZERO understanding of the way women behave, and look only at their external beauty and do not have anything in common with them, and then can't understand when things go wrong. They lose their money and their integrity, they become jaded and disappointed and angry, but it is their own fault for being so thoroughly dim-witted in the first place.

5: Some come here and just try to "make it" by hanging around bars and gatherings, claiming to have been a big noise back in their home-country - laughable, because if they were so big - why come here? Trying to do business that has longevity with the Thais, if you have no prior experience or someone who is local and is in it with you for the long haul, is extremely rare and very difficult - this can lead to depression and frustration.

6: Inner peace - The old saying goes something along the lines of - you can't run away from your problems, because where-ever you go - there they will be with you. Many people have broken pasts - failed relationships, busted businesses, serious and crippling addictions, and they find, to their horror, that low and behold, after the Thailand honeymoon period, they are still the same persons they were before they arrived! The sun may shine, food may be cheaper, accessing your vices may be easier, but unless you are committed to dealing with your inner demons, it doesn't matter where you are- you will still be a mess inside. Clean up house!! Seek therapy and commit to seeing real and lasting change in your life.

The OP is rather vacuous and generalised. It scratches the surface on the human condition and suggests that the glass half empty scenario is attributed to the locals. Actually - it's not. It's usually to do with inner and outer turbulence, which is often financial and tied to relationship issues.

Chat with some of these people over a longer period of time - get real with them, and you will soon find out that I am correct. Many are carrying the burdens of the pain of years and years, that has not been dealt with.

They were under the illusion that moving to a tropical paradise would somehow heal all hurts and they would have reached a period of peace and contentment. Sadly we know that life isn't always like that.

My post is not to cast judgement on anyone, but merely to point out a truth.

Let's be honest here - there ARE lots of frustrating things about Thai culture - Thais often ARE immature and ill-educated - we know that is true because it's a well documented and statistical fact. This is, after all - a DEVELOPING country.

BUT - it is very possible, and probably advisable for those who have issues in these areas, to just live here peaceably amongst the good folk of Thailand, don't do business with them unless necessary, and enjoy their food and countryside etc, and don't have anything to do with girls and ladies who use bars and nightclubs for a start, as their main source of income.

If you want a fulfilling relationship with a Thai national, learn more about their culture and obviously- make sure that you have as many similarities as possible. We all know that successful relationships that have longevity are those that are built on similarities - NOT differences.

If you come from the similar financial backgrounds, have similar spiritual beliefs and similar family and moral/ethical points of view, then you are much more likely to have a successful relationship.

If you can't even speak the same language, then no matter how good the other person may look on the outside, it's unlikely that your search to mesh spiritually and emotionally, will succeed.

A person of stability and inner peace will learn how to live ANYWHERE successfully.

Lastly - don't fall into the trap of the culture of face and comparisons. It's killing Asia, and it will kill you too.