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Why are white people expats when the rest of us are immigrants?


george

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The Thai press is off the deep end on these expat columns. Engendering animosity with bitter acrimony about western white people.

This is nothing to do with the Thai press at all, for some odd reason best known to himself George has lifted this from an African blog. The author of that African blog is the one who is engendering animosity with bitter acrimony about western white people but you wouldn't be able to see that.

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Have a clue! For the same reason, only while people are called Farangs by Thais, Kwai lo by Chinese, Orang Bulleh by Indonesians, Masaleh by Malaysians, Orang Puteh by Singaporeans and Haole by Hawaiians!!

Knowing that the word "orang" means human or person in Malay and Indonesian, the Indonesian and Singaporean terms you have presented (although I've got to say the Singaporean one is a bit odd as normally they use English and when another word is used, I've only heard "ang moh", which is Cantonese? or something in origin not Malay) sound a lot more pleasant and less discriminatory than the blatant use of farang by Thais, barang by Khmers or other words used by other nationals in the region. Although not knowing much Khmer, I do have a good ear for these things and have heard the word "barang" being used far less often in Cambodia than the word "farang" in Thailand. Even in Laos, a country where I can speak the language, the word "falang" (note that in Lao there is no "r" sound) is not used nearly as loosely as in Thailand. If anything I've heard people say "khon falang", which means Frenchman or sounds a bit more formal and respectful more than just "falang" as would be the case in Thailand.

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The author of this article only sees race; only writes about race; and views all life through a racial lens. This can be inferred by the post but confirmed by a cursory glance through the internet at the other articles this author has written. By definition this makes him unqualified to discuss race. Because he is black does thus qualify him to discuss racism through a reverse lens. All the argument one needs to make regarding this man's bona fides as a racist his to review his outlandish assertion that South Africa dismantled its nuclear program because when Mandela was released [they] (assuming white people) feared black people having nuclear weapons. He then goes on to lament how if South Africa retained nuclear weapons it would be much stronger internationally (read black people). It cannot be both ways.

Again, it is an affront all all TV members that this thread remains unlocked. Forget this article in itself, peruse his other works. Would the same platform be provided to a KKK Klansman, such as David Duke, disparaging black people under the cover of investigative query? No!

http://sasodomgomorrah.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-dark-truth-about-why-south-africa.html

The reason the OP is there and not locked is that it was posted by George, allegedly the boss, for the very simple cynical reason of generating the sort of attention it has by some people who don't read it properly and assume it has something to do with Thailand. The more reaction from posters the more interest from advertisers.

I suppose this will be deleted fairly quickly.

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The author seems a bit racist with his/her focus on colour/race. We call people who are perceived as permanent migrants "immigrants" and people who came temporarily as "expats". An expat will most likely not integrate in the country, an immigrant will or should. Ofcourse some temporary aliens become permanent ones and some aliens who intended a permanent move pack their bags early.

Too western immigration, every foreigner who is not a tourist is an immigrant. People may take an educated guess if the alien is a permanent or temporary visitor. Somebody from a developed country may very well be a temporary worker departing after 1-2 years if people have to make an educated guess. People from less developed countries might very well be there permanent, though some people may not call that seasonal worker or nanny an "expat", and connect the term to white collar jobs were as the labour intensive work would be "temporary workers"?

The term certainly has nothing to do with the colour of your skin or country of origin! I find it racist to believe otherwise. Too bad the author is fixed on skin colour. I find that offensive and discriminating: racism. :(

To the Thai all alliens are temporary guests or visitors, getting an immigrant status or citizenship is sadly almost impossible. So pretty much all foreign people here are expats. Furher classified by the colour of there skin, white's being called "farang" (gringo's). Not very much respectful either if one is always just a farang/gringo as if one does not belong (there/here).

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I belong to the human race.

What more does one need to know to pursue life, liberty, and happiness?

Labels intended to subdivide the human species are merely devices used to categorize, direct, and excuse human behavior. Such labels serve no other meaningful societal purpose.

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I thought the white people here were just visitors (guests).

Hardly enough to be an immigrant.

The last time I read I was an alien.....Lets hope Ridley Scott doesn't send Sigourney Weaver after me....

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Because western people have nostalgy of colonialism and slavery

Spelling is one of our fortes since we invented most of the languages commonly spoken as well as the systems that transmit them. "Nostalgia" not "nostalgy"

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Maybe it's a matter of the country of origin. Economic/political conditions. I know people in the US who immigrated there, and they can't for the life of them understand why I would want to live SEA, South America, etc. I had a rental agent in Uruguay who was completely baffled as to why I would leave the US to live there.

Once while passing through the US I was doing my wash in a public laundromat and got to talking with a Colombian lady. I told her I was leaving that night to return to South America. She took it that I was originally from there, and that my return was some sort of defeat, she kept telling me how I should keep a positive attitude about it, etc. I tried to tell her that wasn't the case, and she kept telling me things like "good! It's good you feel that way about it." Kind of funny.

Or maybe an immigrant seeks citizenship, whereas expats just want permission to stay there a while.

When I told my US bank [Wells Fargo] I was leaving for abroad they were completely saddened and almost mystified, although they didn't ask nor seem to care where I was going. But they kind of thought: "why would anyone want to leave our great country?" And BTW I'm not even American.

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Right, right. Learn what someone prefers to be called and use it. Otherwise simply refer to someone as, "The gentleman in the white T-shirt," or, "The lady in the purple dress," or, "That bunch of people over there," etc. Learn some manners.

Anyone who calls me, "farang," I instantly lose all respect for, and instantly forgo giving them any "polite Thai" conversation. I go right into my wild, wild west demeanor, giving them a lesson on what that's all about.

I really don't care what anybody calls me if they don't know me.

However, yesterday I was in the park with my wife when we met a young couple we know with their 2 year old son. The couple know my name, know who I am - as in Jin's husband - and we run into them every couple of months and stop to talk.

The little boy was being a bit shy so dad said to him "Go and say hello to the farang". He could so easily have said "Say hello to ... Martin ... or loong ... or that man ... " or a number of similar descriptions but no, he had to use 'farang'. I'm afraid that, in those circumstances, I view it as similar to saying " ... go play with the dog ...".

I tried to explain why I found it impolite, in my not-too-good Thai and my wife elaborated a bit but it seemed to go right over his head.

Dad's a doctor, BTW.

I have never been bothered by this. I have a mental piggy bank: for every time I am called a "farang", I put a "rice monkey" token in the bank.....and spend it as I see fit

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Have a clue! For the same reason, only while people are called Farangs by Thais, Kwai lo by Chinese, Orang Bulleh by Indonesians, Masaleh by Malaysians, Orang Puteh by Singaporeans and Haole by Hawaiians!!

I thought I was "Bule" to Indonesians, "Ang Moh" to Singaporeans & "Kano" to Filipinos.

Oh & apparently, being a white guy, it's impossible for me to be an ethnic minority!!! This from a serious conversation with (supposedly intelligent) Indian colleagues whilst working in Singapore who told me they were ethnic minorities (Indians are the 3rd largest ethnic group in Singapore) but I couldn't be one as I was white/British [emoji15]

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i wouldn't get offended if i am a white and get calls a falang. You just don't let that bother you. Ofcourse translated into english and then that would caused red face and offended but in the native language, they just calls like that without much thinking anything negative. For example, in their culture, they all have nicknames, like: mouse, dog, little, big, fat, skinny, dark, white, short, superhero, etc. And anyone different then them , ie can't speak the language, etc, nick name is FALANG. Now, when they add something to Falang, its starting to be offensive. For example, a Rich Falang or Mr poor Falang, or Mr fat falang, or that Mr falang don't know anything, Ofcourse not in front of you but with their buddy.

Asian are used to seeing people with black hair and asian eyes and when there is someone with darkskin and curly hair, or brown/blonde hair and blue/green eyes. They just call them falang.

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falang is people from outside of country. If they are white, that falang is polite, smart, and have some money. So if you are white, dont worry too much.

Falang that is black, ie africa origin, it is not thought of nicely. For example, too black, dumb, white teeth( they laugh at this time too), with a big dingdong.

Asian girls with white guy is better than with black guy in their view. But tell that to the NBA players in America, it doesn't work.

I guess its in the asian culture, to not stir up trouble, etc.

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georgeubon, on 16 Mar 2015 - 10:45, said:

falang is people from outside of country. If they are white, that falang is polite, smart, and have some money. So if you are white, dont worry too much.

Falang that is black, ie africa origin, it is not thought of nicely. For example, too black, dumb, white teeth( they laugh at this time too), with a big dingdong.

Asian girls with white guy is better than with black guy in their view. But tell that to the NBA players in America, it doesn't work.

I guess its in the asian culture, to not stir up trouble, etc.

Only whitish Europeans are Farangs!! Other nationalities are NEVER called Farangs!!

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Listen to this.

I have heard Vietnamese in Vietnam calling vietnamese from america , a falang. Or calling a Korean, Japanese , Chinese, Laos, Cambodian a falang as well.

Falang can have advantages and disadvantages. For example, if you don't play with anyone is because you are a falang. In their head, in outside countries, they live to themselves, don't play with anybody. But if you hire someone to work or do construction or repair. They will want more money because you are a falang. With money or stupid don't know anything.

Everything is boiled down to money, money and money. Mayweather probably would have a good time with his money in the asian country.

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Why do we always want to label people?

What is the difference if I'm an expat, an immigrant, a migrant or whatever else?

I'm still Costas that chosen to live in another country than mine.

Labeling me doesn't change anything in my life or the way I've chosen to live.

They call me an Alien at immigration .

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JB300, on 16 Mar 2015 - 09:58, said:
laubau" data-cid="9192031" data-time="1426483912" data-date="Today, 13:31 said:

Have a clue! For the same reason, only while people are called Farangs by Thais, Kwai lo by Chinese, Orang Bulleh by Indonesians, Masaleh by Malaysians, Orang Puteh by Singaporeans and Haole by Hawaiians!!

I thought I was "Bule" to Indonesians, "Ang Moh" to Singaporeans & "Kano" to Filipinos.

Oh & apparently, being a white guy, it's impossible for me to be an ethnic minority!!! This from a serious conversation with (supposedly intelligent) Indian colleagues whilst working in Singapore who told me they were ethnic minorities (Indians are the 3rd largest ethnic group in Singapore) but I couldn't be one as I was white/British [emoji15]

Sorry for the spelling mistake. It is either Bule or Bulek in Indonesia. If you want to get technical, Kwai Loh or Gwai Lo is used by the vast majority of Chinese & Singaporean-Chinese and it is offensive! The Cantonese in Malaysia & Singapore use Ang Moh but they are still a minority in Singapore & China for sure. I do not care what Wikipedia says!! (Do not forget the old speak Mandarin campaign). I have lived and worked in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, China & Thailand for about 30 years. For your info, I was married to a Singaporean-Malay, speak fluent Malay/Indonesian and lived in Singapore for about 10 years. If you only hang out with Cantonese...

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Tomtomtom69, on 16 Mar 2015 - 09:04, said:Tomtomtom69, on 16 Mar 2015 - 09:04, said:
laubau, on 16 Mar 2015 - 08:31, said:laubau, on 16 Mar 2015 - 08:31, said:

Have a clue! For the same reason, only while people are called Farangs by Thais, Kwai lo by Chinese, Orang Bulleh by Indonesians, Masaleh by Malaysians, Orang Puteh by Singaporeans and Haole by Hawaiians!!

Knowing that the word "orang" means human or person in Malay and Indonesian, the Indonesian and Singaporean terms you have presented (although I've got to say the Singaporean one is a bit odd as normally they use English and when another word is used, I've only heard "ang moh", which is Cantonese? or something in origin not Malay) sound a lot more pleasant and less discriminatory than the blatant use of farang by Thais, barang by Khmers or other words used by other nationals in the region. Although not knowing much Khmer, I do have a good ear for these things and have heard the word "barang" being used far less often in Cambodia than the word "farang" in Thailand. Even in Laos, a country where I can speak the language, the word "falang" (note that in Lao there is no "r" sound) is not used nearly as loosely as in Thailand. If anything I've heard people say "khon falang", which means Frenchman or sounds a bit more formal and respectful more than just "falang" as would be the case in Thailand.

Kwai Loh or Gwai Lo and Haole are used with more bitterness and Kwai Loh is much more derogatory than Farang or Falang in Thailand and Laos. Ang Moh is used by the Cantonese which are a minority in Singapore. I have lived & worked for years in Singapore & SE Asia. Singaporean-Malays use Masaleh and Orang Puteh very frequently!

Edited by laubau
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JB300, on 16 Mar 2015 - 09:58, said:

laubau" data-cid="9192031" data-time="1426483912" data-date="Today, 13:31 said:

Have a clue! For the same reason, only while people are called Farangs by Thais, Kwai lo by Chinese, Orang Bulleh by Indonesians, Masaleh by Malaysians, Orang Puteh by Singaporeans and Haole by Hawaiians!!

I thought I was "Bule" to Indonesians, "Ang Moh" to Singaporeans & "Kano" to Filipinos.

Oh & apparently, being a white guy, it's impossible for me to be an ethnic minority!!! This from a serious conversation with (supposedly intelligent) Indian colleagues whilst working in Singapore who told me they were ethnic minorities (Indians are the 3rd largest ethnic group in Singapore) but I couldn't be one as I was white/British [emoji15]

Sorry for the spelling mistake. It is either Bule or Bulek in Indonesia. If you want to get technical, Kwai Loh or Gwai Lo is used by the vast majority of Chinese & Singaporean-Chinese and it is offensive! The Cantonese in Malaysia & Singapore use Ang Moh but they are still a minority in Singapore & China for sure. I do not care what Wikipedia says!! (Do not forget the old speak Mandarin campaign). I have lived and worked in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, China & Thailand for about 30 years. For your info, I was married to a Singaporean-Malay, speak fluent Malay/Indonesian and lived in Singapore for about 10 years. If you only hang out with Cantonese...
Interesting, you learn something new everyday, I thought Gwai Lo was Japanese & in my 6 1/2 years of Working with the local Singaporean & Malaysian Chinese (all of whom speak Mandarin), I've never heard anything but Ang Moh used (in fact, my Filipina girlfriend has spent so much time in Singapore she uses the term Ang Moh when referring to a white person, come to think of it, as did all of the Filipinos I was working with).

I'm not saying that I'm right & you're wrong, just that my experience has been different... Maybe people are just being polite (I don't find the term Ang Moh offensive though Singapore is fast becoming much more xenophobic so it may well become).

Cheers

JB

Edit: Quick google search shows that you are correct and Gweilo is the correct term, as it seems Ang Moh is more of a Singaporean (Hokkien)/Malaysian thing which could be why it's what I'm used to hearing there http://www.angmohdan.com/8-ang-moh-adjectives/

Edited by JB300
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JB300, on 16 Mar 2015 - 11:34, said:
laubau" data-cid="9192668" data-time="1426493902" data-date="25 minutes ago said:
JB300" data-cid="9192366" data-time="1426489087" data-date="Today, 14:58 said:

JB300, on 16 Mar 2015 - 09:58, said:

laubau" data-cid="9192031" data-time="1426483912" data-date="Today, 13:31 said:

laubau" data-cid="9192031" data-time="1426483912" data-date="Today, 13:31 said:

Have a clue! For the same reason, only while people are called Farangs by Thais, Kwai lo by Chinese, Orang Bulleh by Indonesians, Masaleh by Malaysians, Orang Puteh by Singaporeans and Haole by Hawaiians!!

I thought I was "Bule" to Indonesians, "Ang Moh" to Singaporeans & "Kano" to Filipinos.

Oh & apparently, being a white guy, it's impossible for me to be an ethnic minority!!! This from a serious conversation with (supposedly intelligent) Indian colleagues whilst working in Singapore who told me they were ethnic minorities (Indians are the 3rd largest ethnic group in Singapore) but I couldn't be one as I was white/British [emoji15]

Sorry for the spelling mistake. It is either Bule or Bulek in Indonesia. If you want to get technical, Kwai Loh or Gwai Lo is used by the vast majority of Chinese & Singaporean-Chinese and it is offensive! The Cantonese in Malaysia & Singapore use Ang Moh but they are still a minority in Singapore & China for sure. I do not care what Wikipedia says!! (Do not forget the old speak Mandarin campaign). I have lived and worked in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, China & Thailand for about 30 years. For your info, I was married to a Singaporean-Malay, speak fluent Malay/Indonesian and lived in Singapore for about 10 years. If you only hang out with Cantonese...
Interesting, you learn something new everyday, I thought Gwai Lo was Japanese & in my 6 1/2 years of Working with the local Singaporean & Malaysian Chinese (all of whom speak Mandarin), I've never heard anything but Ang Moh used (in fact, my Filipina girlfriend has spent so much time in Singapore she uses the term Ang Moh when referring to a white person, come to think of it, as did all of the Filipinos I was working with).

I'm not saying that I'm right & you're wrong, just that my experience has been different... Maybe people are just being polite (I don't find the term Ang Moh offensive though Singapore is fast becoming much more xenophobic so it may well become).

Cheers

JB

Edit: Quick google search shows that you are correct and Gweilo is the correct term, as it seems Ang Moh is more of a Singaporean (Hokkien)/Malaysian thing which could be why it's what I'm used to hearing there http://www.angmohdan.com/8-ang-moh-adjectives/

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An expat is someone that will never integrate into the society that he is in, an Immigrant will make more efforts to integrate into his new home.

Don't tell the Thai visa redneck society this. According the them immigrants don't want to fit in and force us to bow to their every wish.

I guess if they just call themselves expats then they wouldn't have such issues with the redneck squad!

Edited by samran
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Why are white immigrants, no matter how long they stay in Thailand, always tourists?

because they are not immigrants that's why, they haven't legally migrated and been given right of abode in Thailand and have to seek permission from immigration to remain in country and the fact that the permission given is temporary, you are a "tourist" irrespective of how long someone lives in country

the legal position on this is clear in ones passport as to your status for most people... what do you think that "Non-immigrant" thing means on your visa ? rolleyes.gif

Edited by Soutpeel
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