Are their any Sports Bars in CR?

[smiles793]

Hi PC, I agree there is a difference between the number of part-time foreigners here and the full-timers officially registered here. The method you have used to calculate the numbers depends very much on when (month, day and time of day) you take your sample. For example, I have been in Big C and Central many times and never seen a single foreigner, so using your method I would calculate that there are zero foreigners living here.

Also, I know of quite a few Thai-farang couples with kids who live in the farang's home country, and just come back every year or two to see the family.

But for officially registered foreigners, the numbers I have are from a friend of my father-in-law who works at immigration, and they are in line with Don's.

[pomchop]

Don's estimate of about 700 isn't so different than my big C estimate of 500-1000. I actually go to Big C at different times of day and do for some reason semi count how many farangs i see there....which is usually about 4 or so per hour....and most of them for some reason won't so much as nod at me which i always find a bit strange, but it is what it is.

Anyway. I think the total farang population staying at least 4 or 5 months a year or more in the entire province is likely somewhere in the 1000 or so range.. But i could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.

[ChaangNoi]

I have been in CR for over 10 years and honestly I do not know anyone who is on a retirement visa well enough to ask if that is the type of visa they are on. I guess I am just too young. There are many younger people here who are not old enough to get a retirement visa. Many are here visiting family (like myself), students or working. Also many of the people who live here most of the year do not live here all of the year.

500 to 1000 is a much more reasonable number than 30.

That being said a sport bar targeted at expats is not going to be a winner. The goal was always to have more Thai than farang anyway. The location and prices of the beer would have been prohibitive to keep out most of the ex-pats esp retired ones. Anyways I was looking to do this as a fun hobby even if it lost money, but the more I look into this the more it seems I would be a lot of work.

I'm currently looking into buying/building an apartment complex. The ROI seems decent (10 to 12 years) and should not be as much work as a bar. Sadly however wont be as fun but such is life.

[smiles793]

I think Don's count of 27 US citizens was just an off the cuff count between him and a couple of friends wasn't it? And his bigger number related to farangs of all types?

Anyway, a couple of thoughts based on some other comments made... If it's true that US citizens are in a small minority here, then they seem to spend to a lot more time online than other nationals - I'm sure there's a moral to be drawn from that, but not sure what it is exactly.

Also the perennial question about whether or not to greet a complete stranger just because they're a farang. Personally I don't, and I'll try to explain why.... oh on second thoughts I won't, because I'm sure it'll get contentious.

[ChaangNoi]

I personally treat every farang that I do not know just like every Thai I do not know. Then again I'm slightly anti social by nature.

[pomchop]

I try to acknowledge every person i cross paths (within reason in close contact) with whether thai or farang. A simple nod of the head seems to me to be no big deal....but as i said, it is what it is, and if some prefer to avoid eye contact etc then it's no big deal.

I now have a whole group of Thais that i encounter in my daily walks who used to just pass by but now seem to go out of their way to wave to me.....again no big deal but i do sort of enjoy it.

[villagefarang]

I like pomchop’s Big C analogy and found myself in the “never go into big C but shop elsewhere” group. Of course that is not completely true as we may go there once or twice each year. Most of our shopping is Central Plaza or Makro.

We seldom get to town before noonish and I never seem to have any problem getting a parking place. Of course I am healthy enough that I don’t need to park next to a door and don’t mind walking a few feet to get inside. After all, I am going to walk end to end inside the mall anyway.

Many of us who live here full-time, reside in outlying areas and are seldom in town early morning or after dark. That said, with just a little effort one can get to know enough people to be able to bump into friendly faces on each trip to town.

I would say 50% of the farangs I smile and nod at, return the gesture. There really needs to be some plausible scenario and a willingness from both parties for a conversation to ensue and that simply doesn’t happen all that often.

Just yesterday I bumped into one of our members feeding the goats at the pet display at the Mall. In a crowd of strangers it is always nice to be treated to a smile, a handshake and a brief but pleasant exchange. It is not necessary to have a whole lot in common to be polite and civil.

[ChaangNoi]

We also go to Big-C about twice a year. Once just before Christmas and one time just randomly. We do go to central often and also saw the goats yesterday. If I saw you I did not nod or smile, sorry about that!

I'm slow to make friends and almost never becomes friends with someone I meet randomly. Almost always in a club or event setting, something like that. Maybe I'm just shy in the real world:)

[villagefarang]

In the past I have used club, sports and event settings as networking environments but I prefer one on one. My preference is for spontaneous encounters over planned events so that is made easier by knowing a lot of people. I would get bored hanging out with the same small group of people everyday.

Because of my online exposure, I do get requests to meet but I try to keep it as low key as possible by meeting at Starbucks or someplace similar, where I plan on going anyway. That way it is easy for either party to make excuses if they feel uncomfortable and want a way out.

[smiles793]

About greeting complete strangers. I’ll try to express some thoughts and experiences about this, hopefully in a way that doesn’t arouse inflammatory responses:

I can understand that many foreigners here feel isolated and alienated, by location, retirement, or the culture, and therefore take any opportunity to mix, even in shopping malls; I’ve had complete strangers spill out their whole life story to me in supermarket checkout queues. Others may spend huge amounts of time online; this is of course their prerogative.

Any expat community, especially a small one like CR’s is full of gossip: I’ve heard gossip, often malicious, about people I am never likely to meet.

I’m gregarious and friendly by nature: before I came to Thailand I would trust anyone until I had a reason not to. My experiences here with foreigners has sadly reversed that, now I don’t trust (farangs) until I have good reason to.

I’ve been an expat for a very long time; I guess any surprise or curiosity I might have had about seeing fellow farangs in supermarkets disappeared a long time ago.

80% of the conversations that I’ve had with farangs degenerate quickly into their endless stream of complaints about Thais and Thailand. I really don’t need that. 5% have been great.

Do any of you do this in your home countries? I think if you’re honest with yourselves most of you will probably say no, so why do it here?

By the way, I do occasionally greet strangers, but it depends on the situation.

I meet a large number of people in my work anyway.

Finally, there is no code of politeness or civility in my culture that suggests you need to talk to complete strangers when you’re shopping. Quite the contrary, it would be considered rude (and slightly crazy) to assume that you have the right to impose yourself on a complete stranger.

Cheers all, please take this in the spirit of constructive dialogue in which it’s intended.

[villagefarang]

I agree with most of what you say but I don’t think a polite smile and a nod should be considered rude, crazy or an imposition. Often that is all that is wanted or needed to be civil.

I’m also not sure you can compare here with there, either. When we travel in my home country, however, we often meet and talk with complete strangers. It all depends on the environment and situation. Some of our favorite memories are of chance encounters with locals or fellow travelers.

I am not really sure why you feel the need to begin and end your posts with disclaimers and warnings about inappropriate responses.

[ChaangNoi]

I had a meeting near the Big-C and needed to get some stuff for my dog so I went in to count farang. I walked in at 12:15 and left at 1:20. In that time I counted 12 different farang. Since my meeting was at 2 I went back in for iced cream and saw 3 more. More than I thought I would see. Also every farang was with a Thai lady but one. The exception was with a Thai lady what i would guess to be a step daughter.

I have no idea if any of them live here or are just tourists but most of them were picking up good. Three were eating (well one was just drinking beer).

Not really sure how this will affect the numbers but that is what I observed. Also I was constantly looking to see if people were farang or not, something I never do.

In central I always see 5 to 10 farang if I stay a few hours. However central is also more likely to attract tourists than Big C.

[rijb]

Did they look thirsty?

[DonaldBattles]

Most of the guys you see in Big C and Makro are like me over 70 and living outside on a very limited income. To see one in a gin mill with his wife would be very unusual. Chiang Rai does not have many wealthy farangs.

[smiles793]

Don , I love the way you bring it down to earth with your honesty and straight-talking experience. Sometimes I don't agree with you, but at least I know what it is I'm not agreeing with... if u get my drift.

I had always assumed you were pretty well off financially, but I have never doubted your wealth of experience. I know of 3 other farangs in CR who may have more inherited money in the bank , but have never done a day's work... and it shows.

More power to you sir.

[villagefarang]

All the wealthy people I know of in Chiang Rai have all worked, in one form or another, but I can’t say any of them were manual laborers. Even the ones with titles are not idle. There are some truly wealthy people about who keep homes here but due to their resources are not confined to any one place and Chiang Rai is just one place where they spend time. Most of them are very interesting people too, if you get my drift.

[smiles793]

LOL, nice try

[DonaldBattles]

I only know 2 farangs that are working Chiang Rai. They are young and own and operate restaurants and bars. I can recommend both of them. John Ellis owns the Bistro in the crazy condo and is a good manager that produces good food and drink. The other is Stevie at the Hangover bar. They are smart guys and do OK>

Mind you I am not going hungry but my Thai wife has helped me a lot with my wealth. That is the reason that I decided to 27 years before getting married again. One guy asked me why I did not wait 28 years. I keep asking myself the same question.

A lot of the so called farang wealth here comes from parents dying and leaving them a house to sell. Thai darlings are usually able to help them with this money and evaporates quickly. Other than their fixed retirement income I do not know any wealthy farangs in Chiang Rai. There are many nice people in Chiang Rai and they get along living in the countryside.

[villagefarang]

I can think of a half dozen guys just off the top of my head and that is not including the two you mentioned. Of course for obvious reasons they say their wives are the ones who do all the work.

There are many more who work part of the year elsewhere but keep their family here. I do agree with you, however, there is a large percentage of very old retirees who have chosen Chiang Rai as a cheep retirement destination.

[ChaangNoi]

It must be nice to acquire wealth from family. My parents and grandparents are doing well but maybe one day if the Government does not take it all. I'm in my 30's and get to buy crazy cars and waste money on bars because of a company I helped set up in China that created a line of ASIC computer chips that got to the market before the competitors. There was some luck involved for sure but it sold for $150,000,000 and I got a fair bit of that. So yeah if I do ever make a bar it most likely will be private, this thread has shown me that. I would hate to have to deal with a few of the people here in this thread. The bar would have been a hobby, I need something to do. I was working 20 hours a day every day for a few years. Now I'm bored and trying to rehabilitate myself to normal life. Spending too much time on this forum sure is not helping that!

[smiles793]

Thanks again Don, I hear real experience in your posts.

I know quite a few wealthy people in CR, but unsurprisingly (to me anyway) they are Thais.

I tend to agree with you about farangs living off their dying and dead parents. Personally this in itself doesn't bother me at all, it's their family after all. But it's when they pretend that it's their own personal effort it starts getting cranky, because their maturity as individuals just doesn't stack up with their claims. They also seem t have a huge need for attention and acceptance, which I would not expect in 60+ year olds.

[villagefarang]

It must be nice to acquire wealth from family. My parents and grandparents are doing well but maybe one day if the Government does not take it all. I'm in my 30's and get to buy crazy cars and waste money on bars because of a company I helped set up in China that created a line of ASIC computer chips that got to the market before the competitors. There was some luck involved for sure but it sold for $150,000,000 and I got a fair bit of that. So yeah if I do ever make a bar it most likely will be private, this thread has shown me that. I would hate to have to deal with a few of the people here in this thread. The bar would have been a hobby, I need something to do. I was working 20 hours a day every day for a few years. Now I'm bored and trying to rehabilitate myself to normal life. Spending too much time on this forum sure is not helping that!

You know what they say, "Better lucky than good".

[villagefarang]

Personally I have never understood why some people are so concerned with where others get their money. I typically don’t even ask people what they do or did for a living. On countless occasions I have seen a friend’s picture in a newspaper or magazine and read with great amazement about what they did or their family connections. I just knew them as friends I played sports with or ran into regularly on the party circuit.

[DonaldBattles]

Using a Slingbox I have 1000 channels of Comcast TV. I try to watch as many interesting games as I can. I love college football games.

The Longhorn Saloon at my compound is normally open to friends who want to drop by. I am always interested in listening to business related experiences of others. My wife can show you how to catch a fish to take home.

Retirement is difficult for many of us. After my 5 retirement in Nov. of last year my wife convinced me to give it up. Emotionally it is difficult to give up working. "A man's life is a man's work".

I am down with the flu which is the first time for this kind of illness in 25 years. Getting better and should back up to speed next week.

Notice tomorrow Elon Musk will announce his new super storage battery that can be used in solar homes along with his Tesla electric car. Space X will have it's next booster recovery attempt in 2 months. I try to stay up with the exciting technical issues taking place. Take a look on YouTube Tesla Manufacturing.

[ChaangNoi]

It is amazing what the international private capitalist companies are able to do when the socialist government does not tie their hands behind their backs.

If you are more than casually interested in cutting edge payment systems send me a PM. I'm involved and have access to information that is mostly never publish. SpaceX and Tesla is interesting but it is not realistic anyone reading this thread is going to be able to play in that game.

[smiles793]

Chaangnoi, your seemingly innocent OP, has given the opportunity for so many different perspectives, it's truly fascinating.

Re wealth: "It's not a question of where the money comes from" - BS, if u don't know how to make it u sure as hell don't know how to spend it it.

Actually let me re-phrase that :a person like Bill Gates or Richard Branson, who made their own money, will have a level of business intelligence that someone who just got the money from their dead dad will not have.

The kind of people here who boast about their material acquistitions seem not to have done anything personally to have achieved them; neither do they seem to have used their inheritance to have done anything useful.

I invite any of them to tell us what they have done to contribute to the country they say they love love so much.

[villagefarang]

You first?

[DonaldBattles]

My contributions have been mostly to help young people. In all the years my company offered free education on the weekends to all that want it. Many took advantage of it and went on to make a better life for themselves.

For many years in the industrial provinces I taught the right techniques for making steel with maximum efficiency and minimum cost.

I employed hundreds of Thais and always paid them a good wage. I have done what I could and still encourage young people to get educated.

[ChaangNoi]

Chaangnoi, your seemingly innocent OP, has given the opportunity for so many different perspectives, it's truly fascinating.

Re wealth: "It's not a question of where the money comes from" - BS, if u don't know how to make it u sure as hell don't know how to spend it it.

Actually let me re-phrase that :a person like Bill Gates or Richard Branson, who made their own money, will have a level of business intelligence that someone who just got the money from their dead dad will not have.

The kind of people here who boast about their material acquistitions seem not to have done anything personally to have achieved them; neither do they seem to have used their inheritance to have done anything useful.

I invite any of them to tell us what they have done to contribute to the country they say they love love so much.

I will admit, I'm not good at spending money. I used to be a tight ass and never spent a dime. Always invested it into an idea or a company. I worked my ass off for years. Now I'm set for life financially but I have to do something with my time. I now live in a decent house that for the first time in years does not have holes in the wall or floor. Like I said I'm cheap but my wife won't put up with it any more.

The bar was never a business idea. I knew from the start it would lose money. However after starting the thread it is clear to me that this is not the hobby I want to have for more than one reason. I talked to many people here and some of them gave really good advice. Pointed out things I had never thought of.

Personally I had to contribute a fair amount in taxes so that was something. I have also made a reasonable donation to an orphanage that takes care of children with HIV. You are the first person I have ever told that too but then again, I guess you are the first person who ever asked.

Anyway my look on life has changed and I don't know what to do with my time. It is not worth it to me to get a job that I do not enjoy, but then again working is all I know how to do. Many of you guys seem to be having the same issues I am, not what I expected but makes sense. Once a person goes from doing something every day to having to do nothing it is a bit tricky on the mind. For a while I did spend money and bought everything I wanted but that got old quick. Also I did not really want much so it was pretty easy.

So now I'm low 30's with no real point of existing on this world and no good way to keep myself entertained. I used to work because I had to, now I don't need to do to work and I don't want to work. But I don't know what it is I want to do. Maybe if I sit and look at the wall or this forum long enough I'll get crazy enough that I have to go back to work just to keep my sanity. Life is odd.

[ChaangNoi]

You first?

Trolls the farang forum to keep the expat masses entertained so they stay out of real trouble! A good and truly needed service too!