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Thai officials brace for transfer of temple tigers


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This is ridiculous. Nothing to do with animal welfare and all about money. This place should have been shut down years ago:

Here's some interesting info. Including allegations of tiger trading:

https://www.facebook.com/TheTruthAboutThailandsTigerTemple

Best of luck to the officials in shutting this scam down. Animal welfare requires strong law enforcement and strong laws. Neither of which we have here. Maybe in the future? We can only hope.

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what do you think they will do for a herd of tigers which by the way their main source of income?

Never have herd of this one. only of Tigers live in prides, just like Lions. coffee1.gif

Win from Kan. whistling.gif

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About time they closed down this farce. Maybe poaching of elephants in the wild will be the next thing they go after? We can only pray.

Congrats to the officials for taking action. Hope it all works out OK.

I hope the officials take a water cannon with them. It will be effective, plus the monks will have to think about their loss of face should the cannon be used.

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Really? yeah give the monks time to hide them better yet don't feed the tigers then lock monks and tigers together bet the monks beg you to take them.

When the tranquilizer they feed them wear of and some nasty withdraw symptoms come, they can show how they can tame them with some praying....

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what do you think they will do for a herd of tigers which by the way their main source of income?

Never have herd of this one. only of Tigers live in prides, just like Lions. coffee1.gif

Win from Kan. whistling.gif

Sorry to hurt your pride Kan Win but a group of tigers is called a "streak" or "ambush".

Even Tigger knows that.post-9891-0-75860300-1428413269_thumb.pn

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what do you think they will do for a herd of tigers which by the way their main source of income?

Never have herd of this one. only of Tigers live in prides, just like Lions. coffee1.gif

Win from Kan. whistling.gif

"Tigers live in prides, just like Lions." - There is no such thing as a pride of tigers....this is one example of the public's ignorance about tigers - they are essentially solitary animals except for mating or th females rearing cubs.

One of the problems with the temple has always been that tigers don't in general like to be in the company of other tigers, yet the way they are housed and exploited at the temple leaves them constantly in clear view of other tigers. this eventually builds up stress levels in the animals.

Edited by cumgranosalum
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Well, I didn't see it mentioned yet..... Is it a good idea to release even "some" of the tigers to the wild after they have lost their "fear" of humans? Actually I might say they associate humans with food now. Maybe the shoe will be on the other paw.

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Well, I didn't see it mentioned yet..... Is it a good idea to release even "some" of the tigers to the wild after they have lost their "fear" of humans? Actually I might say they associate humans with food now. Maybe the shoe will be on the other paw.

Releasing the tigers would be an eco-disaster!

quite apart from the fact that there have been no successful attempts to release tigers into the wild anywhere.

(There is currently a project in hand in Siberia which may succeed - in SIBERIA!)

To release a tiger into the wild it would have to be first retrained to hunt - this would require the animals to be kept in a huge reserve and monitored for a few years, then a suitable region would have to be prepared and cleared of all poachers and other threats...

as for space........

" tigress may have a territory of 20 km2 (7.7 sq mi)" while the territories of males are much larger, covering 60 to 100 km2 (23 to 39 sq mi)." - wiki

So you can see the shear logistics would prove hugely difficult if not insurmountable.

As mentioned, releasing an animal that can't hunt and has no fear of humans would indeed be extremely foolhardy as it would very likely pose a threat to both livestock and their owners.

In the end all the above is in reality most likely irrelevant as the Tigers have no authoritative identification.

It is known that some are Bengali and others are Indonesian (corbetti) but if they have interbred then they are hybrids and not only unfit for release but could, if allowed to breed in the wild, irradiate the remaining native populations.

What isn't known yet is the history of the breeding at the temple - it is also likely that these animals are too inbred to be released into the wild gene-pool.

the temple has been permitted over the last decide or so to create a situation that not only doesn't help tiger conservation in Thailand but may in fact actually harm efforts to save the animal in the wild.

thailand is on the edge of being the first country in the 21st century to preside over the extinction of a major apex predator within it's borders and the region.

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I have a feeling they won't find 146 tigers after Songkran.

"Officials brace for transfer of temple tigers" to an exclusive Chinese medicine shop chain, which has promised to bring the merits of tiger conservation to the full attention of its clients.

Is anyone counting these "hilarious" and original jokes about tigers ending up in CTM outlets/restaurants etc. that continue to amaze and delight us so much?

My calculation is that this is number4,356....... when we get to 5000 there should be a prize........ Suggestion: - you get to spend the day in a cage with the tiger of your choice - you will of course get a fork and spoon to defend yourself or consume the animal if the opportunity presents itself.

Huh??

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It seems this website is no longer available......

Wat PA Luang Ta Bua Yansampanno
www.tigertemple.org/

the website is up again....it makes interesting reading a mix of quasi scientific/religious comments without any definable meaning.. and this statement.....

" Please be advised that

www. TigerTemple .org

is the only official website of the Tiger Temple Thailand
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Are there insufficient good monks at this Temple? Must we assume they are all in league with some Chinese body parts brokers?

Surely even ONE?

Yes

Yes (indirectly all of them)

No (Few in the country to start with)

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Are there insufficient good monks at this Temple? Must we assume they are all in league with some Chinese body parts brokers?

Surely even ONE?

Yes

Yes (indirectly all of them)

No (Few in the country to start with)

Discussing whether the monks are "good" or "bad" is quite frankly on the level of a primary school R.E. class

If you look at how why and when men become monks then you might find some answers.

Whereas the system is like any system, abused the truth is that many men in Thailand still do a stint in a monastery at some point in their life.

You also have to consider the educational state of a lot of the guys who enter a monastery for any length of time.

It is quite easy to inculcate a lot of misleading information into a novice who without any outside information will readily accept the views of the temple as "gospel" and genuinely believe that what they are doing is a "good thing".

Experience with cults and their followers will show the amount of loyalty these sorts of places can generate ........not just amongst the onks and novices but also the volunteers

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Just one question: what I see there, in the background...is that one of the enclosures, that is soooo much better than in a zoo?

What do you mean "enclosures"???

An enclosure...also known as an inclosure...a piece of land or so, surrounded by a fence!

What is your problem, exactly?

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Just one question: what I see there, in the background...is that one of the enclosures, that is soooo much better than in a zoo?

What do you mean "enclosures"???

An enclosure...also known as an inclosure...a piece of land or so, surrounded by a fence!

What is your problem, exactly?

So where is this "enclosure"? My problem is that you don't seem aware of how much space a tiger needs or what caging one entails or what a "cage" or enclosure is...

"that is soooo much better than in a zoo" - ????/

Edited by cumgranosalum
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Well, I didn't see it mentioned yet..... Is it a good idea to release even "some" of the tigers to the wild after they have lost their "fear" of humans? Actually I might say they associate humans with food now. Maybe the shoe will be on the other paw.

Releasing the tigers would be an eco-disaster!

quite apart from the fact that there have been no successful attempts to release tigers into the wild anywhere.

(There is currently a project in hand in Siberia which may succeed - in SIBERIA!)

To release a tiger into the wild it would have to be first retrained to hunt - this would require the animals to be kept in a huge reserve and monitored for a few years, then a suitable region would have to be prepared and cleared of all poachers and other threats...

as for space........

" tigress may have a territory of 20 km2 (7.7 sq mi)" while the territories of males are much larger, covering 60 to 100 km2 (23 to 39 sq mi)." - wiki

So you can see the shear logistics would prove hugely difficult if not insurmountable.

As mentioned, releasing an animal that can't hunt and has no fear of humans would indeed be extremely foolhardy as it would very likely pose a threat to both livestock and their owners.

In the end all the above is in reality most likely irrelevant as the Tigers have no authoritative identification.

It is known that some are Bengali and others are Indonesian (corbetti) but if they have interbred then they are hybrids and not only unfit for release but could, if allowed to breed in the wild, irradiate the remaining native populations.

What isn't known yet is the history of the breeding at the temple - it is also likely that these animals are too inbred to be released into the wild gene-pool.

the temple has been permitted over the last decide or so to create a situation that not only doesn't help tiger conservation in Thailand but may in fact actually harm efforts to save the animal in the wild.

thailand is on the edge of being the first country in the 21st century to preside over the extinction of a major apex predator within it's borders and the region.

You appear to be arguing that these inbred and over-familiarised animals have no value in the wild, and therefore all they are good for is entertaining the public (and being sold for parts). Thais are right again?

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Just one question: what I see there, in the background...is that one of the enclosures, that is soooo much better than in a zoo?

What do you mean "enclosures"???

An enclosure...also known as an inclosure...a piece of land or so, surrounded by a fence!

What is your problem, exactly?

So where is this "enclosure"? My problem is that you don't seem aware of how much space a tiger needs or what caging one entails or what a "cage" or enclosure is...

"that is soooo much better than in a zoo" - ????/

Okay...I will make it slow:

I am talking about the statements from the "temple", that the tigers are so much better of at the compound as they would be in a zoo, because the monks are just so loving and caring and whatnot.

And then, I see this "cage" in the background, merely of the size of maybe 30 sqm and - yes, I know- way to small for a big cat.

Got it?

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Well, I didn't see it mentioned yet..... Is it a good idea to release even "some" of the tigers to the wild after they have lost their "fear" of humans? Actually I might say they associate humans with food now. Maybe the shoe will be on the other paw.

Releasing the tigers would be an eco-disaster!

quite apart from the fact that there have been no successful attempts to release tigers into the wild anywhere.

(There is currently a project in hand in Siberia which may succeed - in SIBERIA!)

To release a tiger into the wild it would have to be first retrained to hunt - this would require the animals to be kept in a huge reserve and monitored for a few years, then a suitable region would have to be prepared and cleared of all poachers and other threats...

as for space........

" tigress may have a territory of 20 km2 (7.7 sq mi)" while the territories of males are much larger, covering 60 to 100 km2 (23 to 39 sq mi)." - wiki

So you can see the shear logistics would prove hugely difficult if not insurmountable.

As mentioned, releasing an animal that can't hunt and has no fear of humans would indeed be extremely foolhardy as it would very likely pose a threat to both livestock and their owners.

In the end all the above is in reality most likely irrelevant as the Tigers have no authoritative identification.

It is known that some are Bengali and others are Indonesian (corbetti) but if they have interbred then they are hybrids and not only unfit for release but could, if allowed to breed in the wild, irradiate the remaining native populations.

What isn't known yet is the history of the breeding at the temple - it is also likely that these animals are too inbred to be released into the wild gene-pool.

the temple has been permitted over the last decide or so to create a situation that not only doesn't help tiger conservation in Thailand but may in fact actually harm efforts to save the animal in the wild.

thailand is on the edge of being the first country in the 21st century to preside over the extinction of a major apex predator within it's borders and the region.

You appear to be arguing that these inbred and over-familiarised animals have no value in the wild, and therefore all they are good for is entertaining the public (and being sold for parts). Thais are right again?

" these inbred and over-familiarised animals have no value in the wild," - this is true but........You are trying to make a false dichotomy here - just because these animals have no conservation value, it doesn't follow that "Thais are right again" - this is a sweeping and derogatory generalisation and a non-sequitur.......

It is a situation that has for over a decade. It has been argued that the temple had embarked upon an exercise that could only end in disaster..........the breeding of so many of these animals is one of the main problems. Why is this such a surprise now?

what is wrong is that the abbot and his acolytes refused to listen to warnings and advice given by conservationists and wildlife experts and continued on this ill-advised but lucrative operation.

the animals have NO VALUE in the wild, they are improperly treated and housed at the temple, they also appear to have NO VALUE as contributors to a gene-pool either.

the fact that the temple implies they have conservation credibility is also a terrible factor as it lulls some sections of the public into the idea that the temple was anything but a disaster from the start.

I have to say that as we speak the temple is NOT CLEARED of tigers and it still remains to be seen if the temple can pull enough strings to avoid this.....either way it isn't .looking good for the animals they have bred.

Edited by cumgranosalum
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Flimsy law enforcement as usual. A disgrace.

There seems to be a tendency for everyone to forget that this isn't just about the standard of law enforcement, its also about animal welfare

One follows the other in this case. It is not that I am unconcerned about the animal welfare aspect but at the core of this issue, as with so many others, the issue IS enforcement. There are laws that govern so many aspects of life here - but it is the issue of enforcement that renders them ineffectual.

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I have been to this temple on several occasions. On reflection I find it hard to believe that the tigers aren't heavily sedated/drugged. Given this probability, I wonder if officials have a withdrawal programme for strungout tigers. Methadone might even be needed.

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The other fear I have is that perhaps the tigers are being moved only to be closer to Bangkok. This would, of course, improve accessability for many more tourists deterred by the long trip to Kanchanaburi. More tourists=more baht in the hands of????

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Flimsy law enforcement as usual. A disgrace.

There seems to be a tendency for everyone to forget that this isn't just about the standard of law enforcement, its also about animal welfare

One follows the other in this case. It is not that I am unconcerned about the animal welfare aspect but at the core of this issue, as with so many others, the issue IS enforcement. There are laws that govern so many aspects of life here - but it is the issue of enforcement that renders them ineffectual.

If the law had been enforced originally they wouldn't have had 146 tigers etc etc..

however if they start now to carry out the law to the letter and confiscate the animals regardless of what is happening around them there will be problems for the animals - - e.g - leaving those bears in tiny cages whilst they argue the toss with the monks or winching animals out over fences.

Enforcing the law to the letter may well be detrimental and even removing the tigers could be detrimental - as yet I have seen no reviews of their new accommodation.....or even a definite location.......

in short, carrying out the law regardless could be a disaster for the tigers....

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